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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
21. In the days of Draft Cards, that is all any one had to do
Tue Apr 29, 2014, 10:49 AM
Apr 2014

Last edited Tue Apr 29, 2014, 12:58 PM - Edit history (1)

In the days of Draft Cards, if you were male (Females were NOT drafted) and did not produce your draft card on demand, you could be arrested right then and there for NOT registering for the draft. The law PRESUMED you had not registered for the draft. , and as a male over age 18 YOU had to produce evidence that you HAD REGISTERED for the Draft.

This was viewed as Constitutional for when the Bill of Rights were adopted, the same Congress wrote the laws in regards to enlistments and followed what von Steuben had instituted in 1777. What von Steuben had adopted was the Prussian Rule on enlistments, all the Government had to show was you had enlisted, any discharge of that enlistment had to be produced by the enlistee. Thus former Service personal always kept a copy of their discharge papers. Without one, the Service can claim you had deserted and without the discharge papers such an ex service person was guilty of desertion.

Similar rules applied to Freed Slaves prior to the Civil War, if an African American was seen by anyone, he or she could be arrested. If that African American was a slave, he or she would be returned to his or her owner. On the othe hand, if they claim they were free, they had to show paper work, signed by their former master, that they were free (or get someone from their former master to say they were free, the burden of proof was on the African American). If no such evidence was produced, they would be held by the county sheriff for about 90 days, then sold to pay of the cost of their upkeep (this is the days where you had to PAY for the food you ate while you sat in jail, if you could not pay, the costs were accessed against you, and if you were an African American in the days of Slavery, sold to pay off that debt).

Side note:

Notice the rule, the African American had to show they were a Freeman, not the Sheriff that the African American was a runaway slave. The affect of this law was well known, thus during the US Civil War at Andersonville POW camp, the African American Prisoners were the ones assigned to bury the dead. This permitted African American POWs to be outside the Camp (where they could scourge for food, an option denied to the White POWs, thus African Americans in Andersonville had a lower death rate then White POWs). The reason the Commander of Andersonville assigned the job of burial of the dead to African American, is that if they ran away, the African Americans knew if they were captured by anyone else in the south (and that was what most likely would happen to them) they be sold as slaves. The South had accepted that the North had permitted African Americans to enlist and treated them as POWS if they African American Soldiers had surrendered (in most cases, you had several cases were the Southern Troops massacred African Americans, see Fort Pillow for the best known example) but if the African Americas escaped from the POW Camp and were picked up by a local Sheriff, they then would be sold into Slavery.

Thus this shift of the burden of proof from the owner to the African American was a harsh rule, but a rule easy to enforce and Constitutional for it was the common practice in the South at the time of the Adoption of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

In the North, even prior to the movement to abolish slavery that started in 1783, the burden was on the slave owner not the slave, which was also the rule in the South when it came to Indentured Servants and White Slaves, through White Slavery ended by the end of the 1600s).

http://www.balchfriends.org/glimpse/JPetersIntroBkLaws.htm



I bring up the above two example as how a law can be constitutional that requires you to keep something. All the law has to say is you MUST have it, and on demand you must produce it. Just like Draft Cards had to be produced (and in the days of Slavery, how passes had to be produced by Slaves, and emancipation papers had to be produced by Freed Slaves or other African American). In fact Alexander Hamilton in the Federalist Papers on the Militia, suggested such a situation when it came to the regular militia. Once a year they be called out and checked out if they have the proper amount and type of equipment required of the Militia and then sent home. Did not appear, or did not have the equipment, they would be arrested, jailed and fined.

Thus the Court's will have a tough time ruling such a law unconstitutional, given Hamilton's support for something similar in the Federalists Papers AND how enlistments were treated at the time of the adoption of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
here's a link groundloop Apr 2014 #1
50 emergency vehicles? maddezmom Apr 2014 #2
Kennesaw, GA...home of just about the most lax gun laws in the country Roland99 Apr 2014 #3
This isn't the first incident groundloop Apr 2014 #4
another shooting just a couple of weeks ago Voice for Peace Apr 2014 #12
Still...a virtual paradise compared to south Chicago Roland99 Apr 2014 #19
Kennesaw had a "must have a gun" ordinance in the 1970s jmowreader Apr 2014 #44
So everyone around him was armed? KamaAina Apr 2014 #45
They have a law requiring gun ownership, in fact Spider Jerusalem Apr 2014 #54
Which is not enforced, IronGate Apr 2014 #55
I guess the NRA will say they're not lax enough nt LiberalElite Apr 2014 #61
Cue gun humpers in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. . . Nanjing to Seoul Apr 2014 #5
Okay.... PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #16
tired of not. . .it is accurate. Nanjing to Seoul Apr 2014 #18
+1 Aristus Apr 2014 #24
Not offended PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #43
As is GUNHUMPERS defending assholes that use guns to shoot people tenderfoot Apr 2014 #66
I'm afraid my sympathy must lie with what you said, Aristus. calimary Apr 2014 #53
Tired of not? PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #42
Thank you for proviing to me exactly what my post wanted to prove Nanjing to Seoul Apr 2014 #59
MEME? It's a f***ing REALITY in America Skittles Apr 2014 #63
This town has a mandatory gun ownership law. nt EmilyAnne Apr 2014 #6
Could have been mutual simultaneous self defense jberryhill Apr 2014 #8
You can imagine a scenario in which... Helen Borg Apr 2014 #13
Like a chain reaction pile up jberryhill Apr 2014 #15
Quite possible Plucketeer Apr 2014 #23
I have never understood . . . Brigid Apr 2014 #11
It's not enforced. Brainstormy Apr 2014 #20
Interesting. Thanks for adding your insight. EmilyAnne Apr 2014 #22
In the days of Draft Cards, that is all any one had to do happyslug Apr 2014 #21
I still don't see how this could be constitutional. Brigid Apr 2014 #25
I am just pointing out, nothing in the Constitutions makes such a law illegal happyslug Apr 2014 #34
Your lengthy posts defending this nonsense don't convince me. Brigid Apr 2014 #38
I am NOT asking you to own a Weapon, I am just saying such laws are Consitutional happyslug Apr 2014 #60
The way I would approach a constitutional challenge... Dale Neiburg Apr 2014 #65
And you would be correct, BUT the Federal, State or Local Government COULD pass a LAW mandating such happyslug Apr 2014 #68
I would imagine that if the Federal government called it a tax . . . . toopers May 2014 #73
That's right, but it is not enforced. RebelOne Apr 2014 #41
Second Amendment Remedies. nt onehandle Apr 2014 #7
Update: Shooter found dead KeepItReal Apr 2014 #9
Gawd, just do the self-inflicted shots BEFORE you take out other people. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #57
Fox local news just announced shooter found dead smartphone Apr 2014 #10
6 wounded and then the he shot himself Botany Apr 2014 #14
Guns everywhere YEAH!!!!!!!! mikeysnot Apr 2014 #17
And scarred. KamaAina Apr 2014 #46
Hehehe thanks... mikeysnot Apr 2014 #69
Wait hey gunners if everyone was armed why did upaloopa Apr 2014 #26
Right now, gun fanciers are trying to determine what kind of gun he had, to make sure they have one Hoyt Apr 2014 #27
Unless you can name every gun in the murder's arsenal accurately, there can be no background checks! villager Apr 2014 #30
and to make sure the article is accurate. Doctor_J Apr 2014 #62
No idea, Brown Coat Apr 2014 #28
I never heard that one. upaloopa Apr 2014 #29
Then why do we need more LEO's on the street to combat crime? Brown Coat Apr 2014 #31
There is a difference between LEO and citizens with guns. upaloopa Apr 2014 #33
Yes, they shoot more unarmed people and dogs. Brown Coat Apr 2014 #47
So I should not be concerned with citizen shooters upaloopa Apr 2014 #48
Not CCW holders, Brown Coat Apr 2014 #49
I wouldn't expect you to be. upaloopa Apr 2014 #50
Yeah, CCWers like Zimmerman, Loughner, Stawicki, Hasan, McLendon, Alexis, Dunn, etc., don't exist. Hoyt Apr 2014 #52
I think most of these losers intend to do that when they set out. Would love to see a citation Hoyt Apr 2014 #32
Of the top of my head. Brown Coat Apr 2014 #40
They plan on doing that when they leave home. The fact they shot themselves does not mean some yahoo Hoyt Apr 2014 #51
Because very few people actually walk around with guns? hack89 Apr 2014 #35
How soon you change your tune upaloopa Apr 2014 #37
I have never advocated arming everyone. hack89 Apr 2014 #39
Yup. If everyone was armed, no crime. All shootings will be self-defense. The last one standing... freshwest Apr 2014 #36
This is just America's exceptionalism . What other country has a mass shooting every month ? geretogo Apr 2014 #56
$100 says the shooter was obsessed with Columbine Rocknrule Apr 2014 #58
Or Virginia Tech or Sandy Hook or Killeen or San Ysidro or Edmund or Fort Hood or ... Nihil Apr 2014 #64
I said Columbine because even now, it seems to be considered the end-all-be-all shooting Rocknrule Apr 2014 #67
Another day, another shooting ... the hypotheses about the "cause" are mere trivia really. Nihil May 2014 #70
Identified as 19 y/o Geddy Kramer Blue_Tires May 2014 #71
Heartbroken friend of shooter says ‘yesterday I was just in shock’ Blue_Tires May 2014 #72
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