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Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
63. I disagree
Tue Jan 29, 2013, 12:11 PM
Jan 2013

I was on the board of my temple when we had a fight over this issue. The compromise was that the troop and the pack would take a very liberal view of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy and only enforce the rule if someone wore their scout uniform to a gay pride event. As far as my Temple was concerned no one should tell us who our leaders should be. BTW, two of the last three presidents of my Temple have been gay and they have had no problem with how the Troop and Pack have been operated.

By the same token, it would be difficult to tell a LDS unit that it had to accept gay scouts and gay leaders. That church should establish ist own qualifications for its leadership. The Dale opinion from the SCOTUS basically states that freedom of association means that each group should be allowed to establish its own membership standards and no one should force a church or other private association to accept someone as a member if that member does not meet the membership criterion for such organization. While I dislike the results of the SCOTUS decision, I basically agree that the First Amendment association clause must allow groups to set their own membership standards.

The proposed BSA policy extends the Dale ruling down to the individual chartering units and that is a good first step. To go beyond this, one would have to redefine or change the current interpretation of the First Amendment association clause.

This is an issue that has prevented us from allowing our boys in scouting AllyCat Jan 2013 #1
We didn't allow our son to join Cub Scouts. We made our own group. Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #19
Interesting. I don't like a group that discriminates against certain people. AllyCat Jan 2013 #22
We just did our own group. Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #38
I don't have children but I have insisted that family members with sons do just as you have done Blasphemer Jan 2013 #76
I would love to see this happen. n/t TDale313 Jan 2013 #2
Oh God. ForgoTheConsequence Jan 2013 #3
Didn't we just go through this... DonViejo Jan 2013 #4
The BSA is getting hammered Xithras Jan 2013 #12
Maybe now that Romney lost, they're less concerned about the LDS. n/t Ian David Jan 2013 #13
Even Mitt Romney said that the BSA should drop the ban Xithras Jan 2013 #32
Yes, but he said that years ago. He's certainly flip-flopped by now. n/t Ian David Jan 2013 #33
Possibly Xithras Jan 2013 #36
They deserved the hammering they got... DonViejo Jan 2013 #25
I agree. This is mostly the national Committee trying .... oldhippie Jan 2013 #74
I absolutely do NOT agree with that. Xithras Jan 2013 #80
Core values of hatred and bigotry? dbackjon Jan 2013 #83
I find it hard to believe that a "former scout" would say that. Xithras Jan 2013 #86
It is far more than a few Texas Bigots dbackjon Jan 2013 #89
The proposal would not leave the decision to the units, but to the chartering organization. Xithras Jan 2013 #90
80% of Scouting units in Arizona dbackjon Jan 2013 #91
There's some debate as to what would happen with the Catholic units. Xithras Jan 2013 #92
Here you go - Catholic and Mormon bigots won't change. No hope for Arizona Scouting. dbackjon Jan 2013 #93
The quote from Sister Walsh is the one I was talking about. Xithras Jan 2013 #94
So if the BSA allows local decision dbackjon Jan 2013 #95
Yes, the local facilities would not be permitted to block them. Xithras Jan 2013 #96
That is interesting to know -thanks dbackjon Jan 2013 #97
Not good enough surrealAmerican Jan 2013 #5
They would just be following President Obama's lead on Gay Rights being a local issue dbackjon Jan 2013 #18
w00t! Taverner Jan 2013 #6
It would be one of those "bout time" Bohunk68 Jan 2013 #7
I'll believe it when I see it. Fearless Jan 2013 #8
But they'll allow local bigotry? SpartanDem Jan 2013 #9
Yet I got hammered here for not being impressed with President Obama dbackjon Jan 2013 #20
And you still haven't done the research I recommended to you DonViejo Jan 2013 #30
I have done my research. Have you really done yours? dbackjon Jan 2013 #45
When someone relies on racist comments... DonViejo Jan 2013 #47
There was nothing racist in my comments dbackjon Jan 2013 #49
It's a crack in the facade. It should be celebrated for that reason alone. randome Jan 2013 #26
"color me unimpressed with this "change"." SoapBox Jan 2013 #42
Many of us involved in scouting have LONG said that this was a simple compromise. Xithras Jan 2013 #10
No, not fine if the local group, part of national organization, discriminates HERVEPA Jan 2013 #11
First off, this would be a first step. Xithras Jan 2013 #17
Thank you Stargazer09 Jan 2013 #28
I am the CRO for my unit Gothmog Jan 2013 #31
No it is not dbackjon Jan 2013 #66
And, remember, the "Friggin Mormon" cult, was in the shadows behind SoapBox Jan 2013 #43
Exactly. And not quite the shadows. Big, big bucks. HERVEPA Jan 2013 #46
Suppose they're the only group in town TrogL Jan 2013 #52
There is no limit to the density of scouting units. Xithras Jan 2013 #57
You haven't been in much of the rural west or south then dbackjon Jan 2013 #67
You're conflating problems. Xithras Jan 2013 #81
And you are excusing bigotry and hatred dbackjon Jan 2013 #82
To paraphraise Voltaire, "Perfection is the enemy of progress". Xithras Jan 2013 #84
If wanting immediate equality for all ends the existence of BSA dbackjon Jan 2013 #85
That's where our opinions split. Xithras Jan 2013 #87
kick! hedgehog Jan 2013 #14
A step forward for progress iandhr Jan 2013 #15
How about atheists? Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #16
Tell them you pray to the FSM Lesmoderesstupides Jan 2013 #24
Ironically, that would work. Xithras Jan 2013 #41
In my book FSM is just as valid as any other god people pray too Lesmoderesstupides Jan 2013 #44
I never got any shit for being an atheist in the Scouts. Codeine Jan 2013 #58
AFAIK most worldwide Scouting has an issue with non-theists. mwooldri Jan 2013 #60
I went through 7 years as an adult leader Gore1FL Jan 2013 #61
I'd never participate in an organization that had an official no gays/no atheists policy, though. Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #70
The US has had backwards laws an policies. Gore1FL Jan 2013 #71
I never liked the rah rah rightwing patriotic bent of the Scouts. Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #72
I didn't experience that right-wing patriotic bent Gore1FL Jan 2013 #77
Excellent. K&R for progress, and may it continue. Brickbat Jan 2013 #21
The Mormons relax BSA rules? longship Jan 2013 #23
"other organizations have threatened to withdraw their financial support if the BSA drops the ban." KamaAina Jan 2013 #27
United Way Gothmog Jan 2013 #34
No, no. He's saying some groups will cease funding if they DROP the ban. KamaAina Jan 2013 #35
They BSA would be better off if the policy is changed Gothmog Jan 2013 #39
Why in the name of the FSM are there troops that are segregated by religion? KamaAina Jan 2013 #48
It depends on the chartering organization Gothmog Jan 2013 #53
This may be the best that we can hope for Gothmog Jan 2013 #29
Discrimination at the Local LEvel is the BEST we could hope for? dbackjon Jan 2013 #68
That leaves atheists as the sole pariah now. no_hypocrisy Jan 2013 #37
My local troop when I was younger openly ignored the ban NYC Liberal Jan 2013 #40
One of the New York Councils has stated that it was ignoring the national policy Gothmog Jan 2013 #54
Okay, as long as they're not ATHEIST Gay members... brooklynite Jan 2013 #50
SMOKE & MIRRORS! William769 Jan 2013 #51
This is where I like the Canadian Scouts Posteritatis Jan 2013 #55
Most if not all of World Scouting Organizations reject the BSA policy Gothmog Jan 2013 #56
It is important for one reason. Gore1FL Jan 2013 #79
I am so happy d_r Jan 2013 #59
This isn't the victory a lot are making it out to be. AngryOldDem Jan 2013 #62
I disagree Gothmog Jan 2013 #63
... but only if they agree to castration? panzerfaust Jan 2013 #64
Too late. Occulus Jan 2013 #65
This Eagle Scout CRK7376 Jan 2013 #69
This Eagle Scout Gore1FL Jan 2013 #78
Not that I have a dog in this fight Le Taz Hot Jan 2013 #73
My son's scout group is headed by a transgendered man marshall Jan 2013 #75
I can't help but laugh at all the right wingers calling up on the radio... davidn3600 Jan 2013 #88
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