Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Igel

(35,300 posts)
22. Absolutely.
Mon Apr 30, 2018, 10:10 PM
Apr 2018

And the NRA's views (at least its president's view) is mangled.

He called for armed guns in schools.

He called for schools to be gun-free zones.

You can make those two sentences into a contradiction if you strip out the context. That's a typical debate/rhetorical device. It has no place in sound logical argumentation.

I work in precisely such a place. It's weapon free. Period. Not only guns, but knives and various other kinds of weapons are banned. Even if a kid brings one to school and turns himself in, he's got out-of-school suspension and a disciplinary hearing that might result in days of in-school suspension, 6 or 9 weeks at alternative school, and possible criminal charges. One of those three options will happen--even the threat triggers one of those three punishments.

But no restriction is absolute.

If a police officer openly carries his gun on school property while on duty, it's perfectly legal. That includes school cops, which wear police uniforms and are licensed or certified (or whatever the term is) police officers. But the way the law defines 'on duty' for this purpose all police are on duty 24/7. In fact, I've been told it's against state law for him to leave his weapon on school property and unattended. So last year a cop with a daughter on campus came in for a parent meeting during his lunch break; he couldn't leave the gun locked in the trunk in his police car because that would have been illegal. So he had no choice but to do the legal thing and wear his service revolver.

I wonder if the 'survivor' in this case really wanted all the police that showed up at the Parkland shooting to leave all their weapons in lockers at the police station. That's what a gun-free school would look like, wouldn't it? (No, that's probably not what was meant. But the likely answer to that rhetorical question would lead to the exact same contradiction. Which is why the sentence's meaning, in context, is what's required here. Not what it could mean when decontextualized or recontextualized.)

The hypocrisy at all levels from the right is finally exposed for what it is. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #1
Why don't we just let the Secret Service take care of our schools? erronis Apr 2018 #2
It's my understanding that the NRA does not allow weapons Iliyah Apr 2018 #3
Yes - that's my understanding too. Years ago I took some small-arm training in their basement erronis Apr 2018 #8
There were no semiautomatic arms in circulation when you took small arms training? Marengo May 2018 #24
It wasn't the NRA that put the ban in place Sailor65x1 Apr 2018 #4
The kids didn't argue the origin of the ban, only the inherent irony. LanternWaste Apr 2018 #5
No, they are specifically calling it hypocrisy, Sailor65x1 Apr 2018 #7
So the NRA is admitting that there are times when the gub'mint can regulate guns without violating dflprincess Apr 2018 #20
Well shouldn't the NRA get all over the Secret Service's case? erronis Apr 2018 #6
Would you want that "fiat" if it were VP Biden attending? SoS Clinton? AncientGeezer Apr 2018 #11
So there are times and circumstances when the strict regulation of guns dflprincess Apr 2018 #21
And Pence could over rule the Secret Service or not attend out of principle Yavin4 Apr 2018 #14
No, he can't Sailor65x1 Apr 2018 #15
Okay. Then don't go. Yavin4 Apr 2018 #16
Nearly every school kid in the USA is a future President. mwooldri Apr 2018 #9
It's a Secret Service issue.... AncientGeezer Apr 2018 #10
But, MichMary Apr 2018 #12
Absolutely. Igel Apr 2018 #22
Presidents and V.P.'s do sometimes go against the recommendations of the Secret Service. 3Hotdogs Apr 2018 #13
There's a difference. Igel Apr 2018 #23
Busted! To no effect, tho Nash Teeth Apr 2018 #17
I know this is another "dead" (as in innocents) issue. But the Secret Service isn't to blame erronis Apr 2018 #18
They always say bluestarone Apr 2018 #19
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Parkland students critici...»Reply #22