Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Hekate

(90,556 posts)
117. Oh ffs. It's HALLOWEEN. By its very nature it is transgressive. Standards change with the times...
Wed Oct 25, 2017, 05:38 PM
Oct 2017

...to be sure. No one in their right mind would wear blackface and go as Aunt Jemima, and good riddance to that, say I. My uncles used to commit minor acts of vandalism (Trick or Treat!) tipping over outhouses and at least one Model T Ford. We don't laugh that off as boyish hijinks any more, do we?

However, my late sister in law Patty used to lead her girls on excursions to TP selected houses. Jack-O-Lanterns on my street routinely get rolled downhill by older kids after the littles have gone home.

Disney Princesses, some have argued, are already bleached-out representations/ stereotypes of womanhood and girlhood. Little girls of all ethnicities really, really want to be "princesses" and ride sparkleponies. For gods' sake. They're under 10. They need to role-play, and if imagining themselves as a different ethnicity at least leaves a trace that opens them, a few years hence, to try to see the world a different way...

As for Moana and Maui, as a mythologist and kama'aina I watched the movie with just a bit of gritted teeth, but tried to take it for the entertainment it is. The kids adored it, here in California, and my niece wanted a Moana doll for her birthday -- I got the last one at the mall.

Maui is a demigod, and Trickster -- not a complete buffoon, really. Iz wrote a song about him callling Maui the Hawaiian Supahman. He's a culture hero across Polynesia. The marks on his skin are Polynesian tattoos, and a costume that replicates those is hardly racist. From my seat they looked authentic enough, but I don't have a picture in front of me. As for Moana, points to Disney for giving her a somewhat authentic body-type, and making her a spunky girl.

I do not know what is going on with a site that calls itself raceconscious.org -- are they by any chance the same people that tried to tell all of us we can't wear hoop earrings unless we are Latina? Because of cultural appropriation?

When I was a kid I had a skeleton costume one year. cwydro Oct 2017 #1
Did you ever wear Halloween costumes that would be considered culturally insensitive today? oberliner Oct 2017 #3
Yes, once I dressed up as a 'bum'...my Mom called it a hobo costume and once as a very Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #15
I get the witch thing... MontanaMama Oct 2017 #103
I know I have a witch costume too...it is a kid's holiday...we should lighten up! Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #111
Totally agree. MontanaMama Oct 2017 #113
I have been told dressing as a belly dancer is insensitive LoveMyCali Oct 2017 #135
Woohoo! MontanaMama Oct 2017 #136
Yup, an honest to goodness belly dancer LoveMyCali Oct 2017 #149
What do they say when you tell them you are a belly dancer? EllieBC Oct 2017 #137
Some say that white women shouldn't belly dance because it's cultural appropriation LoveMyCali Oct 2017 #148
I'd Say Yes ProfessorGAC Oct 2017 #38
Not that I recall. cwydro Oct 2017 #62
It's fun these days too Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #65
Youre right about that. cwydro Oct 2017 #66
Like I said elsewhere, this is "our" version of the war on christmas Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #68
Spot on. cwydro Oct 2017 #72
I was dressed as a pigmy hunter one year snooper2 Oct 2017 #69
One year back in the 70's Texasgal Oct 2017 #140
For those wondering, this is Moana: Buns_of_Fire Oct 2017 #2
Biggest Disney animated movie of 2016 oberliner Oct 2017 #4
Maybe only Polynesian kids should be allowed to see it, then. Orrex Oct 2017 #26
Looking good. I didn't tell my blue eyed great-niece she could not have a Moana doll for her b'day Hekate Oct 2017 #123
Nonsense! grossproffit Oct 2017 #5
"my culture is not a costume" oberliner Oct 2017 #6
All culture is a costume Loki Liesmith Oct 2017 #12
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2017 #166
Mine appears to be and I don't sweat it! whistler162 Oct 2017 #13
I was totally just about to take that guy to task, but I'm too busy berating the mom petronius Oct 2017 #134
Nonsense. Children wear costumes to honor characters, not disparage or belittle them. grossproffit Oct 2017 #14
I agree Orrex Oct 2017 #27
Exactly... whathehell Oct 2017 #105
But dressing up as a particular individual is not the same... Adrahil Oct 2017 #83
Moana isn't a "culture." She's a fictional character who children of all colors love. n/t pnwmom Oct 2017 #151
I actually think it is good that kids see beyond color and want to dress up as a dark skinned Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #16
It is. They're honoring the character(s) these characters, not making fun of them. grossproffit Oct 2017 #23
They love her...I have several youngins in my family...no grandkids yet sadly...my oldest just got Demsrule86 Oct 2017 #30
Me, too. They're not mocking her. They're wanting to BE her. n/t pnwmom Oct 2017 #152
This is ridiculous bearsfootball516 Oct 2017 #7
I agree. Blue_true Oct 2017 #56
This is a truly sincere question here.... Dorian Gray Oct 2017 #8
The article addresses Tiana also oberliner Oct 2017 #9
I read that Dorian Gray Oct 2017 #11
That is an interesting question oberliner Oct 2017 #20
I think you're right... Dorian Gray Oct 2017 #132
I think the problem is in assuming it is meant to treestar Oct 2017 #116
That's my sense Dorian Gray Oct 2017 #133
Interesting you can't see who authored this stupid piece, just says redbook editors snooper2 Oct 2017 #70
Meredith Rollins is the editor in chief of Redbook oberliner Oct 2017 #74
Why would it no longer be appropriate? Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #78
I was trying to be facetious oberliner Oct 2017 #172
The error in this argument is that the more little white children who fall in love with characters pnwmom Oct 2017 #153
There is no brown skin to the costume. alphafemale Oct 2017 #10
Yes, there is oberliner Oct 2017 #19
They are talking about two entirely different costumes. Captain Stern Oct 2017 #36
Thanks for adding that oberliner Oct 2017 #47
OK. Understood. alphafemale Oct 2017 #110
Better stop all those non-white people from dressing up as wonder woman too Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #17
Non-white people don't have white privilege oberliner Oct 2017 #18
That only matters if you accept Loki Liesmith Oct 2017 #21
Most are of the... tonedevil Oct 2017 #94
Yes. but I'm white and I'm offended by it Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #22
Everyone's opinion is valid oberliner Oct 2017 #48
On the other hand.... Adrahil Oct 2017 #84
Reasonable points oberliner Oct 2017 #91
Thank you.. whathehell Oct 2017 #107
Exactly. Let them look up to a black person/character treestar Oct 2017 #119
Oh please...Women and girls don't have male privilege either whathehell Oct 2017 #106
I understand the sentiment behind the article, but in the age where an African-American performer phylny Oct 2017 #24
Exactly this -- I'll even go further obamanut2012 Oct 2017 #31
Can you see why someone would feel insulted by it? oberliner Oct 2017 #49
No, there is no reason for anyone to be insulted by this obamanut2012 Oct 2017 #59
In this case? I can't. Here's why... Adrahil Oct 2017 #85
I honestly can't. phylny Oct 2017 #120
No. And I'm not white. mainer Oct 2017 #167
Fair enough oberliner Oct 2017 #168
Agreed! Merlot Oct 2017 #73
The skin and tattoos probably Bettie Oct 2017 #102
Stop the MADNESS! Will Americans next be restricted in their restaurants of choice?! Is segregation WinkyDink Oct 2017 #25
Ridiculous article obamanut2012 Oct 2017 #28
Co-sign! Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #33
Thanks!!! obamanut2012 Oct 2017 #34
I also agree. demmiblue Oct 2017 #39
Yep - if you're not altering your skin color for it then you're fine Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #43
I watch it at least a few times a year -- so great! obamanut2012 Oct 2017 #60
Thank you for sharing your perspective oberliner Oct 2017 #46
How to dress your Pākehā child up as Maui or Moana without appropriating Pasifika culture oberliner Oct 2017 #51
Good article. sl8 Oct 2017 #82
If you live in New Zealand and are Pakeha, very appropriate advice. Otherwise... Hekate Oct 2017 #177
Yes. cwydro Oct 2017 #63
Thanks GulfCoast66 Oct 2017 #67
Agree completely. nt Crabby Appleton Oct 2017 #71
Well said. I'm glad that all the real challenges with racism & civil rights have been taken care of, FSogol Oct 2017 #79
What you said, obamanut2012. Excellent post. nt Hekate Oct 2017 #139
I see this as excellent practice for the upcoming War on Christmas. Buns_of_Fire Oct 2017 #29
Funny thing is there was an article a few days ago about how "zombies" reflect white people's ExciteBike66 Oct 2017 #55
If you do that, you know what'll happen jmowreader Oct 2017 #101
And do not dress up your white guys for Hellboy Not Ruth Oct 2017 #32
Can I dress up as Daniel Dae Kim, though? Orrex Oct 2017 #37
I just got tickets for the new Harry Potter play Not Ruth Oct 2017 #42
Maybe, maybe not. Orrex Oct 2017 #45
The actress is Emma Watson crazycatlady Oct 2017 #50
Doh! All those Emmas look alike to me. Orrex Oct 2017 #53
Hermione was "very brown" in the books? Really? I remember that her distinguishing feature... Hekate Oct 2017 #143
Just what the hell do you mean by saying "Emma Watson went Trump on her"? Hekate Oct 2017 #145
about 10 or 11 years old, for gods' sake Not Ruth Oct 2017 #160
Gee, two fictional little girls, one a witch of indeterminate race, and the other Polynesian/Maori Hekate Oct 2017 #176
"Went Trump on her"?????? RelativelyJones Oct 2017 #155
White privilege, whitewashing Not Ruth Oct 2017 #158
Overuse of these words for silly things makes them meanibgless RelativelyJones Oct 2017 #162
I was at Walt Disney World last weekend Jose Garcia Oct 2017 #35
This is ridiculous tymorial Oct 2017 #40
+1 obamanut2012 Oct 2017 #58
Have you seen Aladdin? oberliner Oct 2017 #90
Well the Genie was pretty obnoxious. nt B2G Oct 2017 #99
Some folks thought the opening song had some offensive lyrics oberliner Oct 2017 #173
Oh FFS, not this shit again. n/t X_Digger Oct 2017 #41
it's like our version of the war on christmas Blue_Adept Oct 2017 #44
Oh nonsense Nonhlanhla Oct 2017 #52
I think there is a reasonable point to consider oberliner Oct 2017 #89
I'm a little confused about this Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2017 #54
It's not just this character oberliner Oct 2017 #88
And little girls of color B2G Oct 2017 #57
I agree. cwydro Oct 2017 #64
The article is about white privilege oberliner Oct 2017 #75
+1 Hekate Oct 2017 #138
Maybe don't dress your kid up as Tinker Bell this Halloween Coventina Oct 2017 #61
Turn off your air conditioning, you are all appropriating my mechanical engineering culture. FSogol Oct 2017 #77
im not up to date on kid stuff but that sounds like a strippers name! samnsara Oct 2017 #76
You're thinking of the 'adult' version of the costume (which I'm sure will be available shortly) petronius Oct 2017 #118
So, now we are going to have a war on Halloween? Thor_MN Oct 2017 #80
It's just something to think about oberliner Oct 2017 #87
Then they can make their decision jberryhill Oct 2017 #161
The parent who buys the costume oberliner Oct 2017 #171
Kids at that age are too young to read anything into it. We should be happy... TlalocW Oct 2017 #81
That's why the article is directed at the parents oberliner Oct 2017 #86
Can I be a pirate? cwydro Oct 2017 #92
Anybody can be whatever they want oberliner Oct 2017 #93
It sounds like people have taken a moment to think about it and concluded it is ridiculous. SharonClark Oct 2017 #144
How dare you appropriate ARRRRGH culture, matey! n/t X_Digger Oct 2017 #125
lol! cwydro Oct 2017 #127
Nope. Hoop earrings now fall under "cultural appropriation" and you can't be a pirate w/o one. grossproffit Oct 2017 #129
lol! cwydro Oct 2017 #131
How do they explain to the kid that treestar Oct 2017 #122
The "soft war" on Halloween by Christians is pretty funny, since Halloween is a Christian term. Coventina Oct 2017 #100
Yeah, I explained that to the high school kids giving me the pamphlet for their Harvest Festival TlalocW Oct 2017 #108
Haha! That's awesome! Coventina Oct 2017 #109
I guess little Clair and her dad are racists Mosby Oct 2017 #95
She does not appear to be wearing a Moana costume oberliner Oct 2017 #96
I didnt read the article Mosby Oct 2017 #97
I understand the bristling at cultural appropriation. There's a long history here, and there's a lot JCanete Oct 2017 #98
I would love to see these guys attend the Halloween Party my firm hosts in London Sen. Walter Sobchak Oct 2017 #104
Pearl clutching EllieBC Oct 2017 #126
This is the liberal version of "The War on Christmas" romanic Oct 2017 #112
4 year old white girl is going to be Michael Jackson WinstonSmith00 Oct 2017 #114
That's just dopey as hell. Squinch Oct 2017 #115
Oh ffs. It's HALLOWEEN. By its very nature it is transgressive. Standards change with the times... Hekate Oct 2017 #117
I think that kids who dress like Moana or Tiana do it because they like and admire the character. lunamagica Oct 2017 #121
This is on par with the killjoys who want to make it all about Sin, Jebus, & Hell. You may quote me. Hekate Oct 2017 #124
I think the adults need to chill. Doreen Oct 2017 #128
Are we also telling any child of any color that they may not dress like 99% of the Disney princesses elehhhhna Oct 2017 #130
My daughter is going to be Princess Elena of Avalor this year. Elena is a Latina princess stevenleser Oct 2017 #141
Leave the kids alone BainsBane Oct 2017 #142
It just makes us look moronic, that's for sure Hekate Oct 2017 #146
NYPost's intent was definitely trollish. JHan Oct 2017 #156
Yes at this point in history I would think treestar Oct 2017 #164
The samoans I know love how this movie shared their culture nini Oct 2017 #147
I think they've gotten this backwards. pnwmom Oct 2017 #150
The general consensus seems to be that the arguments raised in this article are not valid oberliner Oct 2017 #169
Idiotic article and gross to use kids as pawns for the writers' "callout" BS RelativelyJones Oct 2017 #154
And this is why I think the concept of cultural appropriation is flawed and need to be rethought. Nt LostOne4Ever Oct 2017 #157
No, it isn't BainsBane Oct 2017 #159
Stupidity from self-appointed culture cops undermines efforts... RelativelyJones Oct 2017 #163
Good grief. I am Asian, and I'd love to see little white girls dressed as Mulan. mainer Oct 2017 #165
That's how I see it. If a white girl loves a black or brown character enough to want to be her, pnwmom Oct 2017 #175
Its Halloween, so the scary cultural appropriation people are out with their list of acceptable Oneironaut Oct 2017 #170
If I were one of these 'russian bots'... Fix The Stupid Oct 2017 #174
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Maybe Don't Dress Your Ki...»Reply #117