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In reply to the discussion: So many people here defending Columbus... [View all]L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)37. You obviously don't know de las Casas.
I know him well, we were introduced by Frederick Douglas, and Bartolome told me:
"
forty-nine years have passed since the first settlers penetrated the land, the first so claimed being the large and most happy isle called Hispaniola,
This large island was perhaps the most densely populated place in the world
all the land so far discovered is a beehive of people; it is as though God had crowded into these lands the great majority of mankind."
"And of all the infinite universe of humanity, these people are the most guileless, the most devoid of wickedness and duplicity, the most obedient and faithful to their native masters and to the Spanish Christians whom they serve. They are by nature the most humble, patient, and peaceable, holding no grudges, free from embroilments, neither excitable nor quarrelsome. These people are the most devoid of rancors, hatreds, or desire for vengeance of any people in the world they not only possess little but have no desire to possess worldly goods. For this reason they are not arrogant, embittered, or greedy. They are very clean in their persons, with alert, intelligent minds, docile and open to doctrine, very apt to receive our holy Catholic faith, to be endowed with virtuous customs, and to behave in a godly fashion."
" into this land of meek outcasts there came some Spaniards who immediately behaved like ravening wild beasts, wolves, tigers, or lions that had been starved for many days. And Spaniards have behaved in no other way during the past forty years, down to the present time, for they are still acting like ravening beasts, killing, terrorizing, afflicting, torturing, and destroying the native peoples, doing all this with the strangest and most varied new methods of cruelty, never seen or heard of before, and to such a degree that this Island of Hispaniola once so populous (having a population that I estimated to be more than three million), has now a population of barely two hundred persons."
"The island of Cuba is now almost completely depopulated. San Juan [Puerto Rico] and Jamaica are two of the largest, most productive and attractive islands; both are now deserted and devastated. On the northern side of Cuba and Hispaniola the neighboring Lucayos comprising more than sixty islands have the healthiest lands in the world, where lived more than five hundred thousand souls; they are now deserted, inhabited by not a single living creature. All the people were slain or died after being taken into captivity and brought to the Island of Hispaniola to be sold as slaves. When the Spaniards saw that some of these had escaped, they sent a ship to find them, and it voyaged for three years among the islands searching for those who had escaped being slaughtered "
"More than thirty other islands in the vicinity of San Juan are for the most part and for the same reason depopulated "
"As for the vast mainland, which is ten times larger than all Spain, we are sure that our Spaniards, with their cruel and abominable acts, have devastated the land and exterminated the rational people who fully inhabited it. We can estimate very surely and truthfully that in the forty years that have passed, with the infernal actions of the Christians, there have been unjustly slain more than twelve million men, women, and children. In truth, I believe without trying to deceive myself that the number of the slain is more like fifteen million."
"Their reason for killing and destroying such an infinite number of souls is that the Christians have an ultimate aim, which is to acquire gold, and to swell themselves with riches in a very brief time "
" the Indians began to seek ways to throw the Christians out of their lands. And the Christians, with their horses and swords and pikes began to carry out massacres and strange cruelties against them. They attacked the towns and spared neither the children nor the aged nor pregnant women nor women in childbed, not only stabbing them and dismembering them but cutting them to pieces as if dealing with sheep in the slaughter house. They laid bets as to who, with one stroke of the sword, could split a man in two or could cut off his head or spill out his entrails with a single stroke of the pike. They took infants from their mothers' breasts, snatching them by the legs and pitching them headfirst against the crags or snatched them by the arms and threw them into the rivers, roaring with laughter and saying as the babies fell into the water, 'Boil there, you offspring of the devil!' Other infants they put to the sword along with their mothers and anyone else who happened to be nearby. They made some low wide gallows on which they hanged victim's feet almost touched the ground, stringing up their victims in lots of thirteen, in memory of Our Redeemer and His twelve Apostles, then set burning wood at their feet and thus burned them alive. To others they attached straw or wrapped their whole bodies in straw and set them afire. With still others, all those they wanted to capture alive, they cut off their hands and hung them round the victim's neck, saying, 'Go now, carry the message,' meaning, Take the news to the Indians who have fled to the mountains. survivors were distributed among the Christians to be slaves."
"And of all the infinite universe of humanity, these people are the most guileless, the most devoid of wickedness and duplicity, the most obedient and faithful to their native masters and to the Spanish Christians whom they serve. They are by nature the most humble, patient, and peaceable, holding no grudges, free from embroilments, neither excitable nor quarrelsome. These people are the most devoid of rancors, hatreds, or desire for vengeance of any people in the world they not only possess little but have no desire to possess worldly goods. For this reason they are not arrogant, embittered, or greedy. They are very clean in their persons, with alert, intelligent minds, docile and open to doctrine, very apt to receive our holy Catholic faith, to be endowed with virtuous customs, and to behave in a godly fashion."
" into this land of meek outcasts there came some Spaniards who immediately behaved like ravening wild beasts, wolves, tigers, or lions that had been starved for many days. And Spaniards have behaved in no other way during the past forty years, down to the present time, for they are still acting like ravening beasts, killing, terrorizing, afflicting, torturing, and destroying the native peoples, doing all this with the strangest and most varied new methods of cruelty, never seen or heard of before, and to such a degree that this Island of Hispaniola once so populous (having a population that I estimated to be more than three million), has now a population of barely two hundred persons."
"The island of Cuba is now almost completely depopulated. San Juan [Puerto Rico] and Jamaica are two of the largest, most productive and attractive islands; both are now deserted and devastated. On the northern side of Cuba and Hispaniola the neighboring Lucayos comprising more than sixty islands have the healthiest lands in the world, where lived more than five hundred thousand souls; they are now deserted, inhabited by not a single living creature. All the people were slain or died after being taken into captivity and brought to the Island of Hispaniola to be sold as slaves. When the Spaniards saw that some of these had escaped, they sent a ship to find them, and it voyaged for three years among the islands searching for those who had escaped being slaughtered "
"More than thirty other islands in the vicinity of San Juan are for the most part and for the same reason depopulated "
"As for the vast mainland, which is ten times larger than all Spain, we are sure that our Spaniards, with their cruel and abominable acts, have devastated the land and exterminated the rational people who fully inhabited it. We can estimate very surely and truthfully that in the forty years that have passed, with the infernal actions of the Christians, there have been unjustly slain more than twelve million men, women, and children. In truth, I believe without trying to deceive myself that the number of the slain is more like fifteen million."
"Their reason for killing and destroying such an infinite number of souls is that the Christians have an ultimate aim, which is to acquire gold, and to swell themselves with riches in a very brief time "
" the Indians began to seek ways to throw the Christians out of their lands. And the Christians, with their horses and swords and pikes began to carry out massacres and strange cruelties against them. They attacked the towns and spared neither the children nor the aged nor pregnant women nor women in childbed, not only stabbing them and dismembering them but cutting them to pieces as if dealing with sheep in the slaughter house. They laid bets as to who, with one stroke of the sword, could split a man in two or could cut off his head or spill out his entrails with a single stroke of the pike. They took infants from their mothers' breasts, snatching them by the legs and pitching them headfirst against the crags or snatched them by the arms and threw them into the rivers, roaring with laughter and saying as the babies fell into the water, 'Boil there, you offspring of the devil!' Other infants they put to the sword along with their mothers and anyone else who happened to be nearby. They made some low wide gallows on which they hanged victim's feet almost touched the ground, stringing up their victims in lots of thirteen, in memory of Our Redeemer and His twelve Apostles, then set burning wood at their feet and thus burned them alive. To others they attached straw or wrapped their whole bodies in straw and set them afire. With still others, all those they wanted to capture alive, they cut off their hands and hung them round the victim's neck, saying, 'Go now, carry the message,' meaning, Take the news to the Indians who have fled to the mountains. survivors were distributed among the Christians to be slaves."
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Did this guy exaggerate when he said Columbus gave him a native woman as a slave?
ExciteBike66
Oct 2017
#11
Says you. But you can't document that. Read what he wrote. He opposed slavery.
L. Coyote
Oct 2017
#108
I suppose the Russians were also behind the desire to remove Confederate statues? nt
ExciteBike66
Oct 2017
#5
Hey, at least you are conceding that I am not a Russian agent! It's a start!
ExciteBike66
Oct 2017
#181
TrumpRussia, TrumpRacism are both far more important. We have limited resources.
sharedvalues
Oct 2017
#182
It was 1492. It was a different world back then. History is was history is.
Trust Buster
Oct 2017
#7
We committed massacres in Korea and Viet Nam in the 1950s and the 1960s based on the
Trust Buster
Oct 2017
#15
More than a "fool's errand," most of this is a wired-in hostility toward one's own
Hortensis
Oct 2017
#61
Westmoreland was a general in the military fighting in a foreign war 50 years ago.
Trust Buster
Oct 2017
#138
For better or for worse, the guy is credited with discovering america. I doubt that will change.
Trust Buster
Oct 2017
#141
I am not trying to change that, so much as trying to make sure we are not honoring the man
ExciteBike66
Oct 2017
#155
If you are not interested in changing the name, then you are implicitly defending the man.
ExciteBike66
Oct 2017
#10
How far do you want to take this? Columbia is the poetic name for America - you think
Midwestern Democrat
Oct 2017
#110
America wiped out the Native Americans, yet we still celebrate this country. Correct? n/t
USALiberal
Oct 2017
#17
"Why do we think Columbus is suddenly such a hot topic?" Because Columbus Day is tomorrow!
Towlie
Oct 2017
#43
Columbus doesn't divide Dems. Everybody knows he was a racist POS, as were a lot of
octoberlib
Oct 2017
#88
I'm not a Columbus defender and am glad we (as a nation) are moving away from Columbus Day.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
Oct 2017
#21
Do you care about the people who do care about it? Because we're on your side, right?
Iggo
Oct 2017
#60
Russia has nothing to do with this. It's about the false narrative they've been brain washing
YOHABLO
Oct 2017
#70
Oh, oh I get it. My post count is lower than yours so I need not have an opinion!
ExciteBike66
Oct 2017
#159
If it hadn't been Columbus, then who? Henry the Navigator? Captain Cook? And if so, would any
demosincebirth
Oct 2017
#53
Careful or you'll be accused of being a Russian spy for speaking the truth about Columbus
jcmaine72
Oct 2017
#74
1. Dresden. Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Vietnam. Iraq. 2. So basically you're saying that anywhere one human
WinkyDink
Oct 2017
#81
I always find it kind of bizarre to see historical figures judged by values that were not held
milestogo
Oct 2017
#82
It makes no difference what he "discovered" ... what does matter is what he did and was...
Ferrets are Cool
Oct 2017
#93
I'm not "defending Columbus." I'm defending our right to not have really stupid fights ...
Hekate
Oct 2017
#94
That's most of human history and all cultures at one time or another. There is no land...
Hekate
Oct 2017
#146
How many righteous people who get tomorrow off as a Holiday will be taking it?
brooklynite
Oct 2017
#107
If we're going to start being scrupulously honest about our history, let's work backwards
WinkyDink
Oct 2017
#114
Ha! looks like the biggest defense against your OP is to call you a Russian and the best argument
lunasun
Oct 2017
#135
It is disgusting -- it is EXACTLY like having a Happy Hitler Day in Germany
obamanut2012
Oct 2017
#137
Every holiday, the righteous and pure tell me why not to engage or solemnize for my own good.
LanternWaste
Oct 2017
#142
You are speaking of your individual experience of the holiday, which is fine.
ExciteBike66
Oct 2017
#161