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onenote

(42,685 posts)
47. Impeachment is far more likely and certain than invoking the 25th amendment
Wed Aug 9, 2017, 12:56 AM
Aug 2017

To invoke the 25th amendment, several steps have to take place.

First, the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, have to transmit to the leadership of the House and Senate their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, at which point the Vice President assumes the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Let's dissect that: Congress demanding his removal is meaningless unless the aforementioned first step is taken. Will Trump's cabinet follow Congress' lead if they call for the cabinet to act? I see no reason to think they would. For one thing, I doubt they would agree with the concept that Trump is "unable" to discharge the powers and duties of his office. He's discharging them, just not in a way that a majority of the country supports. Congress could pass legislation setting up a "body" to make the declaration, but even if you could get a majority of the House and Senate to do so, Trump could and would veto it. So you'd need to have veto proof majorities.

Assuming the necessary 2/3 vote to establish a body to declare the president unable to discharge his duties (and I'm not sure what body the repubs and Democrats would agree on), Trump could, immediately send a message to the leadership of Congress that no inability to discharge the duties of the office exist, at which point a majority of the cabinet or the body appointed by Congress has to make a new declaration within four days and then Congress has 21 days to vote and only if 2/3 of both Houses agree does the VP again take over. On the face of the amendment, nothing would stop Trump from again notifying Congress that he is able and starting the process over again and again.

Impeachment actually would be more certain and probably less time-consuming. It also would only require a majority vote in the House, not a 2/3 vote.

The 25th amendment almost certainly wasn't intended for use when a president is able to carry out the duties and powers of the office but does so in a way that a majority doesn't like. It was intended for circumstances where a president literally cannot act. That doesn't mean the 25th couldn't be used to displace a president whose behavior is as appalling outside the norm as Trump's. But it makes it a lot less likely that the folks that need to make that decision will do so, and in so doing set a precedent that could be followed in future circumstances. Impeachment is a more familiar course of action and one that is far more likely to be followed than the invocation of the 25th amendment.

Time for Congress to step in and 25th Amendment his ass right out of office. NightWatcher Aug 2017 #1
Congress Would Have To Take Action Immediately.... global1 Aug 2017 #17
I think you don't understand how the 25th amendment works onenote Aug 2017 #27
Yes I do, The VP and a majority of Cabinet members remove the Prez.... NightWatcher Aug 2017 #29
Totally agree, have advocated for it, for months furtheradu Aug 2017 #37
Impeachment is far more likely and certain than invoking the 25th amendment onenote Aug 2017 #47
Bet Pence is drooling right now elehhhhna Aug 2017 #77
The damage a military coup would do to the nation is staggering to contemplate. WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2017 #2
Yeah, I'm with you.... Adrahil Aug 2017 #10
I find the confidence people place in generals worrisome and talk of having them act on their own WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2017 #12
Yeah.... I've worked for the DoD my whole career.... Adrahil Aug 2017 #15
What Do You Think Their Meetings In The Pentagon.... global1 Aug 2017 #19
If I had to guess.... Adrahil Aug 2017 #31
You and me both Hekate Aug 2017 #46
Does not matter what you think....trump is CIC.... beachbum bob Aug 2017 #3
The military can refuse an illegal order dflprincess Aug 2017 #38
Isn't What Schlesinger In Conjunction With The Joint Chiefs.... global1 Aug 2017 #50
No Hekate Aug 2017 #58
Yes, and I doubt he had any real legal basis for that order. Kentonio Aug 2017 #61
This is sort of the opposite of their job. temporary311 Aug 2017 #4
No, Not A Good Solution Ccarmona Aug 2017 #5
I want to first know if this is what the military does not want. Because, who knows. Nt MonkeyC Aug 2017 #6
No thanks. More precisely: fuck whatever horse this shit rides struggle4progress Aug 2017 #7
7 Days In May? Me. Aug 2017 #8
Absolutely not. WTF. Weekend Warrior Aug 2017 #9
No. dawg Aug 2017 #11
Once the button is pressed, it's too late. Suppose Trump tweeted that within Doodley Aug 2017 #79
Go full Banana Republic? No thanks.. EX500rider Aug 2017 #13
no. this is a job for congress. eleny Aug 2017 #14
Read the Constitution. What you're proposing is military coup. procon Aug 2017 #16
It is the job of the military to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. roamer65 Aug 2017 #18
Yep, and Trump is their CIC. NT GulfCoast66 Aug 2017 #20
Dump is a domestic enemy. roamer65 Aug 2017 #21
Where exactly in the Constitution sarisataka Aug 2017 #22
Not by the Armed forces GulfCoast66 Aug 2017 #33
By breaking those laws? procon Aug 2017 #25
You might be confusing the US sarisataka Aug 2017 #23
You are demanding a military coup d'etat. That would be the final nail in the coffin of our republic Hekate Aug 2017 #24
So Congress Is Racing Back To D.C. To.... global1 Aug 2017 #30
If you want a democracy or a republic, you do not ever invite active military to govern in place of Hekate Aug 2017 #32
Because We Have A Madman At The Head & A..... global1 Aug 2017 #34
Why don't you write to them and ask them? Also, Mueller is not the only one probing Trump... Hekate Aug 2017 #43
I Respect Yours & The Other Posters Here On This Threads...... global1 Aug 2017 #52
As much as I despise Trump, I do not think that would set a good precedent. eom Hoyt Aug 2017 #26
"He's not my Commander-In-Chief." Maybe not, but... Glorfindel Aug 2017 #28
This is the Democratic Underground left-of-center2012 Aug 2017 #35
Finally! Thank you. Hekate Aug 2017 #42
Banana Republic nolabels Aug 2017 #68
No, no, a thousand times no jmowreader Aug 2017 #36
Alerted... brooklynite Aug 2017 #39
I just did also. This topic is leading some people down a dark alley. nt Hekate Aug 2017 #45
If this thread is not removed, I will be alerting the FBI And the Secret Service. Foamfollower Aug 2017 #73
Drop a note to Ask the Administrators (left side of your page under Main). Agent Mike is no doubt... Hekate Aug 2017 #88
What if the only choice is a coup, or Trump pushing the Button...? First Speaker Aug 2017 #40
Go write a novel & get it off your chest. This is not the place to advocate governmental overthrow. Hekate Aug 2017 #44
So is your answer to Trump pressing the button to go write a novel? Doodley Aug 2017 #56
Read the answers in this thread -- the sober ones. Then read the US Constitution. Hekate Aug 2017 #57
You would not have a nation if there is a nuclear war. Doodley Aug 2017 #66
Well, let's go back to JFK and start over with a military dictatorship in charge. Or FDR... Hekate Aug 2017 #69
It isn't very reassuring to say we've been in peril before. Do you Doodley Aug 2017 #82
Do I have children -- honey, I have grandchildren. Your arguments are circular and panicked... Hekate Aug 2017 #87
Congratulations on the grandchildren. I notice that you Doodley Aug 2017 #94
I did. Just. Say. No. Hekate Aug 2017 #96
So we should destroy the nation in order to save it? nt. Mariana Aug 2017 #93
Why are those the only alternatives? Caliman73 Aug 2017 #76
I said the word "if"... First Speaker Aug 2017 #95
Time for Trump to go .. Hieronymus Aug 2017 #41
No, never! denbot Aug 2017 #48
So you prefer Trump blow up the world??? OK. I'm not advocating this, but I pray they defy orders adigal Aug 2017 #51
Those are not the only choices, adigal. nt Hekate Aug 2017 #54
and once that happens, what's to stop them from doing the same thing time and again onenote Aug 2017 #49
Military coup? Not Ruth Aug 2017 #53
Ah, yes. putin's ultimate wet dream. Jakes Progress Aug 2017 #55
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no, it is not the military's job to remove Trump. BzaDem Aug 2017 #59
You've got to be kidding melman Aug 2017 #60
Jaw dropping stupidity. pintobean Aug 2017 #62
Not the problem of the Generals. It's the Congress TrishaJ Aug 2017 #63
Isolate him in Bedminster? Take over the White House? EL34x4 Aug 2017 #64
a coup . . . you are suggesting a military coup DrDan Aug 2017 #65
No to a military coup, thank you TacoD Aug 2017 #67
I'm pretty sure Mattis would stop this dimwit from doing something stupid elehhhhna Aug 2017 #70
When you say you are "pretty sure," how sure is that as a percentage Doodley Aug 2017 #80
Quite high, but I'm really good at denial elehhhhna Aug 2017 #98
This particular sentiment is as irrational and without thought of consequence as are Trump's tweets. LanternWaste Aug 2017 #71
Wow - when did we give generals the job of overturning the US govt? jmg257 Aug 2017 #72
NOPE. Caliman73 Aug 2017 #74
Suppose Trump woke up one morning in a bad mood, and ordered a nuke strike Doodley Aug 2017 #78
Why are those the only options? Caliman73 Aug 2017 #81
Boom! While they were resigning, Trump just pressed the button. Doodley Aug 2017 #84
You have a very unsophisticated view of our nuclear arsenal metalbot Aug 2017 #85
Wow. You think that there is an actual button? Like a little red button or something? Caliman73 Aug 2017 #86
No, it's a big red button sarisataka Aug 2017 #91
You want a Rubicon moment? LittleBlue Aug 2017 #75
I want Trump out, too...but I don't trust the Pentagon not to replace him with something like THIS: Ken Burch Aug 2017 #83
This we can agree on, Ken Hekate Aug 2017 #89
I think we actually always agreed far more than not. Ken Burch Aug 2017 #90
Back atcha Hekate Aug 2017 #92
NO! No, no, no, no, no... haele Aug 2017 #97
The Lieutenant say's to you and your squad OxQQme Aug 2017 #99
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