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Gothmog

(143,998 posts)
100. Nader gave us bush
Sun Mar 5, 2017, 05:31 PM
Mar 2017

Nader was key to bush's victory http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called “Florida and New Hampshire” simply “the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket,” when Cook was writing about “The Next Nader Effect,” in The New York Times on 9 March 2004. Cook said, “Mr. Nader, running as the Green Party nominee, cost Al Gore two states, Florida and New Hampshire, either of which would have given the vice president [Gore] a victory in 2000. In Florida, which George W. Bush carried by 537 votes, Mr. Nader received nearly 100,000 votes [nearly 200 times the size of Bush’s Florida ‘win’]. In New Hampshire, which Mr. Bush won by 7,211 votes, Mr. Nader pulled in more than 22,000 [three times the size of Bush’s ‘win’ in that state].” If either of those two states had gone instead to Gore, then Bush would have lost the 2000 election; we would never have had a U.S. President George W. Bush, and so Nader managed to turn not just one but two key toss-up states for candidate Bush, and to become the indispensable person making G.W. Bush the President of the United States — even more indispensable, and more important to Bush’s “electoral success,” than were such huge Bush financial contributors as Enron Corporation’s chief Ken Lay.

All polling studies that were done, for both the 2000 and the 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, indicated that Nader drained at least 2 to 5 times as many voters from the Democratic candidate as he did from the Republican Bush. (This isn’t even considering throw-away Nader voters who would have stayed home and not voted if Nader had not been in the race; they didn’t count in these calculations at all.) Nader’s 97,488 Florida votes contained vastly more than enough to have overcome the official Jeb Bush / Katherine Harris / count, of a 537-vote Florida “victory” for G.W. Bush. In their 24 April 2006 detailed statistical analysis of the 2000 Florida vote, “Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?” (available on the internet), Michael C. Herron of Dartmouth and Jeffrey B. Lewis of UCLA stated flatly, “We find that ... Nader was a spoiler for Gore.” David Paul Kuhn, CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer, headlined on 27 July 2004, “Nader to Crash Dems Party?” and he wrote: “In 2000, Voter News Service exit polling showed that 47 percent of Nader’s Florida supporters would have voted for Gore, and 21 percent for Mr. Bush, easily covering the margin of Gore’s loss.” Nationwide, Harvard’s Barry C. Burden, in his 2001 paper at the American Political Science Association, “Did Ralph Nader Elect George W. Bush?” (also on the internet) presented “Table 3: Self-Reported Effects of Removing Minor Party Candidates,” showing that in the VNS exit polls, 47.7% of Nader’s voters said they would have voted instead for Gore, 21.9% said they would have voted instead for Bush, and 30.5% said they wouldn’t have voted in the Presidential race, if Nader were had not been on the ballot. (This same table also showed that the far tinier nationwide vote for Patrick Buchanan would have split almost evenly between Bush and Gore if Buchanan hadn’t been in the race: Buchanan was not a decisive factor in the outcome.) The Florida sub-sample of Nader voters was actually too small to draw such precise figures, but Herron and Lewis concluded that approximately 60% of Florida’s Nader voters would have been Gore voters if the 2000 race hadn’t included Nader. Clearly, Ralph Nader drew far more votes from Gore than he did from Bush, and on this account alone was an enormous Republican asset in 2000.
... Cooley Hurd Mar 2017 #1
Russia, comey , voter suppression uponit7771 Mar 2017 #2
All true Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #8
...and rigged election components to make it all moot....nt 2naSalit Mar 2017 #29
No if more on the extreme left came our and voted Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #236
Riiiight.....nt 2naSalit Mar 2017 #256
If Dems refuse to take moral positions, we have nobody to vote for. lagomorph777 Mar 2017 #281
Wow Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #309
And let me guess... which candidate is the only one in history to have "moral positions?" ehrnst Mar 2017 #321
This is why trump is about to destroy the human race, thanks for your purity Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #402
100% accurate. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #401
I hear that's why Hitler rose to power - the lack of a truly inspirational candidate ehrnst Mar 2017 #325
Actually it was a very similar situation Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #342
So does history blame Hitler's opponent for being "less likeable" or charismatic for his rise? ehrnst Mar 2017 #365
Not that I know of Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #400
Yeah - 3 million more votes even with voter suppression in key states ehrnst Mar 2017 #520
Stein still played a role Gothmog Mar 2017 #92
A meme I made paels Mar 2017 #238
A vote for Stein was a vote for Trump Gothmog Mar 2017 #249
Exactly: since she COULD NOT WIN it was a WASTED vote. n/t Beartracks Mar 2017 #303
People who understand what a 2 party system is and care about the planet would NEVER Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #403
That graphic perfectly illustrates Jill Stein and the Unicorn Humpers. Maru Kitteh Mar 2017 #265
I love it AND hate it at the same time. It's dead-on target! NurseJackie Mar 2017 #279
Dreamers paels Mar 2017 #278
All fucking excuses for the far left sticking their heads in the sand. Blue_true Mar 2017 #107
Facts aren't excuses uponit7771 Mar 2017 #142
Like the fact Hillary won more votes than any candidate but Obama in '08? ehrnst Mar 2017 #322
Yeap, they like to ignore those little facts too uponit7771 Mar 2017 #324
Actually, Obama got 50,000 more vote in 12 Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #456
Thank you for the correction. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #517
Hillary won by 3 million votes. kacekwl Mar 2017 #188
Why bring up facts? Rex Mar 2017 #439
Watch and learn HAB911 Mar 2017 #3
Oh, bullshit. rug Mar 2017 #4
+1 demmiblue Mar 2017 #5
Have to fix your own house first Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #7
You don't have to count lifeboats if you see the damned iceberg. rug Mar 2017 #9
And you need to focus to see the iceberg Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #13
One's house will never be perfect, nor one's naval. Time to stop gazing upon it delisen Mar 2017 #36
And may they Burn in hell with Stein, Sarandon and Nader. Demsrule86 Mar 2017 #68
Exactly MFM008 Mar 2017 #71
Sure will (not) Demsrule86 Mar 2017 #81
But they got to stamp their little feet NastyRiffraff Mar 2017 #85
Agreed Gothmog Mar 2017 #250
How do u fix stupid? Neither Hill nor Bernie were 100pc, Alice11111 Mar 2017 #124
Nobody disagrees about turning those nonvoters into voters. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #222
Never said 'you have to vote for us' Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #237
It's not about "100% purity" Ken Burch Mar 2017 #275
Exactly! KPN Mar 2017 #305
Yes it is Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #308
There have been TWO problems: Ken Burch Mar 2017 #330
Thanks for the reminder about running FOR something. It is so easy to forget. Jim Beard Mar 2017 #490
Thanks for the support. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #491
The party didn't seem to worry about losing the white male vote to Romney. ehrnst Mar 2017 #522
I got behind her as a white straight man. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #525
I understand, but there was indeed some real sexism on the far left ehrnst Mar 2017 #526
And I understand all that you're saying there. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #528
Like "happenstance" not going after Black support in the south? ehrnst Mar 2017 #540
54% of white voters went Republican in 2012. I don't recall anyone ehrnst Mar 2017 #323
We do Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #343
I said in 2012 - not currently. ehrnst Mar 2017 #544
+ Faux pas Mar 2017 #27
+1 matt819 Mar 2017 #30
+1 leftstreet Mar 2017 #57
Karl Rove funded Nader Gothmog Mar 2017 #95
And in 2016.... He funded Hillary's primary rival. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #326
Yes Rove did Gothmog Mar 2017 #328
Not saying leftish radicals and extremists don't Hortensis Mar 2017 #102
Many are same people who think 9/11was an inside job Alice11111 Mar 2017 #127
Yes. Conspiracism common at both extremes. Hortensis Mar 2017 #145
Well said. Alice11111 Mar 2017 #153
especially, righteousness breeds ruthfulness Alice11111 Mar 2017 #235
What exactly is "ruthfulness"? milestogo Mar 2017 #243
Dictionary says, causing sorrow. I would add usually Alice11111 Mar 2017 #274
Ends justify the means, even when that means Hortensis Mar 2017 #337
Nailed the problem...those who follow, Congress, Repubs Alice11111 Mar 2017 #353
It is funny how the GOP is never at fault for anything. Rex Mar 2017 #338
As if the right wing has never donated to or sponsered the far left... joshcryer Mar 2017 #371
You mean like Bernie getting support from individuals? Rex Mar 2017 #375
Sure. joshcryer Mar 2017 #394
They thrive on the left eating its own? joshcryer Mar 2017 #370
Not enough of the gop to win unless dumbshits scream "but emails" and vote 3rd party Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #405
Just what are you trying to do here? demmiblue Mar 2017 #6
Trying to address Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #10
WE SHOULD ALL MOVE TO THE RIGHT! Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #53
What? How do you see that? George II Mar 2017 #160
My statement was meant as sarcasm. Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #170
Disrupt. Barack_America Mar 2017 #20
Most of us are capable of holding multiple thoughts simultaneously. unitedwethrive Mar 2017 #33
!!! Alice11111 Mar 2017 #139
Divide, too. QC Mar 2017 #58
Looks that way to me too. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #268
Bingo. n/t QC Mar 2017 #269
Good to know who Rex Mar 2017 #339
No surprises at all in who grabbed up this stinky turd and ran with it. QC Mar 2017 #351
Well what do you expect them to do? Their epic failure by running centrists Rex Mar 2017 #377
Yeah, "centrists" like the Congressional Black Caucus and Planned Parenthood.... ehrnst Mar 2017 #539
Hopefully...people are too smart of such as he/she. Demsrule86 Mar 2017 #69
The far left will play their purity bullshit again. I want to stomp them in the face Blue_true Mar 2017 #113
I didn't read past, "I want to stomp them in the face every chance I get." demmiblue Mar 2017 #116
Nice Citrus Mar 2017 #261
And then you wonder why our party is losing. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #267
I hear ya, i do. It will happen again in 2018, you can see it in this thread. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #408
. BumRushDaShow Mar 2017 #11
It's always the same BS stupidity Gman Mar 2017 #12
They are worse than trump supporters in my opinion. liquid diamond Mar 2017 #135
Agreed. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #409
I have to interact w them. Definitely NOT smartest or Alice11111 Mar 2017 #138
They have the same malignancy of the right wing. joshcryer Mar 2017 #373
Thank you for your nuanced response. truebluegreen Mar 2017 #388
Discussing BS stupidity doesn't require it. joshcryer Mar 2017 #393
Do what I say, not what I do? Got it. truebluegreen Mar 2017 #415
Trump and Brexit are the elites losing? joshcryer Mar 2017 #489
Trump and Brexit are big FUs to the elites. truebluegreen Mar 2017 #518
Far left Dogma is rather Maoist in the requirements to conform totally to ehrnst Mar 2017 #523
What's that, Fancy Bear? Barack_America Mar 2017 #14
And some people eat it up. demmiblue Mar 2017 #16
Looks good. milestogo Mar 2017 #19
Looks so yummy now I am hungry and have completely forgotten what this post was about lunasun Mar 2017 #80
Well, stein did lie to her fans about Hillary.. and sarandon did the same.. Cha Mar 2017 #15
Stein, Putin and Trump joined forces against Clinton-she is that formidable delisen Mar 2017 #37
Stein and Sarandon are two sad people who are proud of their efforts to elect trump Gothmog Mar 2017 #96
Right.. they don't regret shit. Cha Mar 2017 #157
They are actually proud that trump was elected due to their efforts Gothmog Mar 2017 #158
Yep and they are here on this thread it seems. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #412
I agree and I am not happy with this sentiment Gothmog Mar 2017 #524
Anyone who says Hillary was worse than Trump mcar Mar 2017 #105
You Sooo Funny! tech3149 Mar 2017 #17
There is an extreme left and it is fucking clueless. Blue_true Mar 2017 #117
Commies! They're all freaking' commies! truebluegreen Mar 2017 #389
They arent actually left at all, but that is what they call themselves, yes. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #416
The audience for RT and the Intercept isn't small. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #527
It would be nice to unite against a common enemy Cary Mar 2017 #18
Like those who suggest that certain Ds should primary others mcar Mar 2017 #106
Yes, and sowing discord and discontent Cary Mar 2017 #112
Hillary was correct mcar Mar 2017 #114
But is the radical left to be trusted? Cary Mar 2017 #115
I have my doubts too Cary mcar Mar 2017 #120
And you could primary anybody you want but you come together after that, which Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #420
Yes, in normal times mcar Mar 2017 #453
I always thought that people in this country have the right to vote for whomever they want. milestogo Mar 2017 #21
Of course. That's why Drumpf earned WhiteTara Mar 2017 #24
and apparently lillypaddle Mar 2017 #25
They stared into the face of fascism and said they couldn't be bothered to oppose it... nt sweetloukillbot Mar 2017 #352
A vote for Jill Stein was a vote for trump Gothmog Mar 2017 #376
that attitude will make it sure you never treestar Mar 2017 #45
Yes, people have the right to stab us in the back Cary Mar 2017 #51
Ah, so its all about us. milestogo Mar 2017 #74
That's really helpful Cary Mar 2017 #79
A tragedy in 2 acts onyxw Mar 2017 #204
It's not that the "concerns are nothing burgers." Cary Mar 2017 #209
That statement works both ways. onyxw Mar 2017 #216
Then don't evolve. Cary Mar 2017 #220
Nobody's saying people don't have a right NastyRiffraff Mar 2017 #87
Elections and votes for third parties have consequences Gothmog Mar 2017 #97
You act like you're watching a porn flick, where the actors have to excite you. Blue_true Mar 2017 #119
You can't wrap your mind around the fact milestogo Mar 2017 #121
!!! Alice11111 Mar 2017 #146
Never said they didn't Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #241
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #421
Oh, so, you've got all the answers. Cool. Maybe you should be running the party. GoneOffShore Mar 2017 #22
Truth hurts sometimes. nt lillypaddle Mar 2017 #26
Me thinks that the concern is misplaced. GoneOffShore Mar 2017 #108
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #183
Thanks for saying what is difficult for them to hear. WhiteTara Mar 2017 #23
If you want a scapegoat blame the non voters Tom Rinaldo Mar 2017 #28
Yes indeed. Wasn't it a shame that people like Sarandon likely discouraged the "wishy-washy" voter NurseJackie Mar 2017 #35
She did that for sure. People are stupid, she capitalized on that fact. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2017 #424
Zero lessons learned from '08 (inspired turnout), '10 (apathetic midterms), '12 (declining turnout) KeepItReal Mar 2017 #73
But witch hunts just feel so good. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #150
And the fringe-left FAITHLESS ELECTORS would have handed it to Trump if things had been that close. NurseJackie Mar 2017 #31
They prove they cannot be counted on to vote for the Dems, then they cry when the Dems go after the Foamfollower Mar 2017 #41
Don't expect Stein to take responsibility for anything. She is worst than Trump. nt Blue_true Mar 2017 #122
Of course she wont. But ... it changes nothing. We know the truth. NurseJackie Mar 2017 #165
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #185
Nader is responsible for Citizens United and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act Gothmog Mar 2017 #32
You "Must earn my vote" Clowns. Answer that poster. Blue_true Mar 2017 #125
So are you happy that trump won? Were you happy when Bush won? Gothmog Mar 2017 #155
K&R. nt tblue37 Mar 2017 #34
I lulz'd KG Mar 2017 #38
They will never learn. Foamfollower Mar 2017 #39
Clinton got 66 million votes. Blue_true Mar 2017 #129
Exactly my point Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #240
What part of getting more votes than anyone but Obama in '08 is unclear to you? (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #385
No part of it. Foamfollower Mar 2017 #392
The part that brought out enough votes to defeat her Egnever Mar 2017 #396
Cool story, bro RandiFan1290 Mar 2017 #40
+1 Nevernose Mar 2017 #49
So we are telling people how liberal to be? HopeAgain Mar 2017 #42
You can be as liberal as you want to be Mellomugwump Mar 2017 #62
Babysteps is losing the millenials HopeAgain Mar 2017 #78
Perhaps they need to learn that it isn't all about them? Mellomugwump Mar 2017 #94
Hasn't been about them at all HopeAgain Mar 2017 #154
I'm just glad I never had kids Mellomugwump Mar 2017 #162
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #179
I am a millennial, JHan Mar 2017 #232
I virulently was opposed to Bernie winning our Primary. Blue_true Mar 2017 #131
I ain't understanding squat RoadhogRidesAgain Mar 2017 #191
This was in context of voting for Hillary Mellomugwump Mar 2017 #203
Breaking windows instead of building bridges SticksnStones Mar 2017 #43
Exactly, they are "wimps" because they know treestar Mar 2017 #44
Excellent ornotna Mar 2017 #46
Many claim to be "The Progressives" it is past time to define the term. delisen Mar 2017 #47
Great analysis. On the money on Sarandon. nt Blue_true Mar 2017 #133
That's what I'm hearing too NastyRiffraff Mar 2017 #329
"Conform with us on every single issue, or you are not true progressives!!" ehrnst Mar 2017 #366
I stopped caring about Glen Greenwald a very long time ago Gothmog Mar 2017 #378
Moi aussi. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2017 #384
Democrats got more votes edhopper Mar 2017 #48
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #50
This message was self-deleted by its author Calculating Mar 2017 #56
All this was/is bullshit. INdemo Mar 2017 #52
I agree BainsBane Mar 2017 #152
TRANSLATION: Dems Lose When RIGHT WINGERS Don't Vote For Dems!!! eniwetok Mar 2017 #54
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #55
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #61
Bless your heart. Coventina Mar 2017 #59
so whether Dems run a lefty or "centrist" candidate and lose, it's lefties fault? yurbud Mar 2017 #60
We are in irrelevant fringe minority, yet we have the power to swing elections. QC Mar 2017 #63
Only close elections...I wish that you had the power to win...but I have never seen that. Demsrule86 Mar 2017 #82
What policy iniatives have you accomplished in the last 60 years? Blue_true Mar 2017 #134
no excuses NamesDave Mar 2017 #177
How have Democrats pulled to the right? BainsBane Mar 2017 #137
Great post-the Democratic party is being split by the extreme left Gothmog Mar 2017 #380
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #190
That is what this OP is about. Rex Mar 2017 #340
The left is not powerless Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #360
Well then get your centrists allies to stop blocking the left and stop losing seats. Rex Mar 2017 #379
It is not about fault or blame Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #406
Your OP is all about fault and blame, are you going to pretend now it is not? Rex Mar 2017 #410
It's not Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #422
It is. Rex Mar 2017 #423
It's not Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #542
it's what that 10-15% IS. Privatizing public education is not small potatoes for teachers & parents yurbud Mar 2017 #64
Part of the problem is lefties think that just because the GOP did it, we can too. forjusticethunders Mar 2017 #65
There are many billionaires that are Democrats. Blue_true Mar 2017 #136
I don't disagree with some of this...but the point seems very divisive and I must say Demsrule86 Mar 2017 #66
The Russian hacks and wikileaks propaganda worked because many Blue_true Mar 2017 #140
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #67
Diversion and divisive thread....Keep on topic - Comrade Trump Russian operative Talk Is Cheap Mar 2017 #70
So like Trump Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #312
Hippy punching never goes out of style. aikoaiko Mar 2017 #72
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #144
Hillary Clinton received 3 million MORE votes than that piece of maggot shit in the wh. onecaliberal Mar 2017 #75
Wrong. The conservative media gave us Trump and Reagan sharedvalues Mar 2017 #76
I like Noam Go Vols Mar 2017 #163
Trump won the votes of 27% of registered voters. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #77
and many Trump voters were actually anti HRC voters. eniwetok Mar 2017 #83
In Trumpspeak, this 60% is a small minority of unhappy Clinton supporters. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #86
Nothing more SICKENING then left bashing on a supposedly progressive site. m-lekktor Mar 2017 #84
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #192
Who the fuck's we? Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2017 #199
nope H2O Man Mar 2017 #88
People have to stop blaming the Left for the rise of Trump DemocraticSocialist8 Mar 2017 #89
Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Mar 2017 #98
It's not denial...it's inaccurate to blame the Left and incendiary DemocraticSocialist8 Mar 2017 #101
I am living with the effects of the voter suppression laws made possible by Nader Gothmog Mar 2017 #104
It's been shown that more Dems voted for Bush than Nader, but no one blames DINO Dems that DemocraticSocialist8 Mar 2017 #109
Read the material on this thread Gothmog Mar 2017 #110
I am not...I think you should read this... DemocraticSocialist8 Mar 2017 #118
Did you read it? Bush won Florida by 500 votes Gothmog Mar 2017 #156
So you're just going to repeat the lie even after being shown the numbers that say otherwise? DemocraticSocialist8 Mar 2017 #159
Did you even read the material you linked to? Gothmog Mar 2017 #252
Links???? G_j Mar 2017 #259
Bush won by 537 votes Gothmog Mar 2017 #271
You've got to be kidding G_j Mar 2017 #319
Read the links in this post Gothmog Mar 2017 #327
And petulant blaming is not just for children. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #283
Why? BainsBane Mar 2017 #171
Thank you for making that absolutely clear, BainsBane. nt Cha Mar 2017 #175
While that may be true, Stein has support on the Left DemocraticSocialist8 Mar 2017 #184
If "Dems ran more progressive candidates" BainsBane Mar 2017 #193
Also BainsBane Mar 2017 #197
If you voted for Stein, then why are you posting on DU? Gothmog Mar 2017 #272
It's divisive because we should be making the far left our ally. I'm among the far left by the way JCanete Mar 2017 #273
By all means BainsBane Mar 2017 #298
You are using far left to define people who want right wingers and racists to succeed, not me. JCanete Mar 2017 #307
Stein voters voted for Trump and many of these voters are happy that trump won Gothmog Mar 2017 #383
No. Dangerous#1 Dangerous#2 Dangerous#3 Cha Mar 2017 #174
She's an evil rat fucker BainsBane Mar 2017 #198
Great post Gothmog Mar 2017 #251
Bullshit! Bobby's assassination gave us Nixon; Tony Scalia gave us Bush; Putin gave us Trump. Zen Democrat Mar 2017 #90
Nader gave us bush Gothmog Mar 2017 #100
aw, bless your heart. fishwax Mar 2017 #91
... Solly Mack Mar 2017 #93
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #99
We are our worst enemy. The far left gave us Nixon, twice demosincebirth Mar 2017 #103
They will never accept responsibility or fault. liquid diamond Mar 2017 #141
You go to the far left, you can shake hands with the far right. demosincebirth Mar 2017 #194
Yes. I just learned that liquid diamond Mar 2017 #244
They don't have to be "fringe." demosincebirth Mar 2017 #301
Bullshit. TDale313 Mar 2017 #111
this is exactly how I feel. Exactly louis c Mar 2017 #123
There will *always* be fringe leftists, 3rd party, nader, stein voters. ALWAYS. yodermon Mar 2017 #126
Good job OP. Needs to be said, over & over & over Alice11111 Mar 2017 #128
Your posts illustrates perfectly liquid diamond Mar 2017 #130
This shit again Blecht Mar 2017 #132
Whether you like it or not, the radical left played a part in our 2016 loss. liquid diamond Mar 2017 #143
I think you give them too much credit by calling them leftists BainsBane Mar 2017 #151
I agree. liquid diamond Mar 2017 #169
So if we scold/insult/demonize people hard enough Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #147
We will not coddle them. liquid diamond Mar 2017 #246
The left was not to blame for Nixon in '68, so that part of your title is unfair. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #148
Don't forget George Wallace in 1968 TexasBushwhacker Mar 2017 #292
What you're missing, though, is that there's no widespread public support for "centrism" Ken Burch Mar 2017 #149
No widespread support for "centrism"? I'll bet more than 60% of the electorate are "centrists". George II Mar 2017 #161
"centrist" is what people self-identify as...when you ask what ideas they actually SUPPORT... Ken Burch Mar 2017 #168
Provide some evidence for that BainsBane Mar 2017 #172
Of course I do. And I will. I'll be posting polling data on that tonight and tomorrow. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #176
Asking for poll results to support a claim BainsBane Mar 2017 #186
It's nor that you ask for evidence, it's that you keep acting like I can't be trusted Ken Burch Mar 2017 #217
Good grief BainsBane Mar 2017 #224
And I've done nothing to deserve that from you. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #230
It has nothing to do with being too left BainsBane Mar 2017 #231
I don't make any such assumption. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #234
Hi, Ken! Can you explain some things, please? NurseJackie Mar 2017 #260
Inquiring minds want to know. George II Mar 2017 #262
+1,000 NastyRiffraff Mar 2017 #295
There has been majority public support for single-payer for years Ken Burch Mar 2017 #178
Single Payer was rejected in Colorado by a huge amount. people can claim anything. the way they JI7 Mar 2017 #195
I was asked to provide evidence, I provided it. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #207
so lets stop pretending people support things they don't . it doesn't help if you actually want JI7 Mar 2017 #208
I didn't pretend. The polls were evidence. A referenda in Colorado doesn't nullify the polls. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #213
actual votes matter more than what people claim in a poll JI7 Mar 2017 #215
It doesn't mean I made what I said up. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #218
same sex marriage and other gay rights still are not safe. it doesn't help to pretend people support JI7 Mar 2017 #219
I didn't pretend. I offered evidence. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #225
we don't need to pretend candidates are losing because they don't support single payer JI7 Mar 2017 #226
None of those links were there when I read the post earlier. BainsBane Mar 2017 #227
If their voting behavior has nothing to do with issues, there's nothing we can ever do to recover. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #233
Quite honestly I don't think the majority of the public even knows what single payer is. George II Mar 2017 #257
They get Medicare for all, and before that they supported national health insurance. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #276
Reread what I posted, please. George II Mar 2017 #284
I read what you posted and responded to it. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #286
Unfortunately there IS a general ignorance and apathy about the ACA and Medicare.... George II Mar 2017 #297
No "shot" was intended. I actually thought you might be Canadian. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #300
Here is the most recent poll on union organizing that I've found Ken Burch Mar 2017 #181
Okay BainsBane Mar 2017 #223
I'm looking for other polls. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #294
If your claim is true, then prove it Gothmog Mar 2017 #254
Very few people "self-identify" themselves as anything, only those deep into political discussions.. George II Mar 2017 #255
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #180
I campaigned for Hillary all fall and worked to persuade people further left to support her. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #182
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #189
Could somebody pm me to say what was in the message that was autoremoved? Ken Burch Mar 2017 #210
You can't tell what's offensive about that? Seriously? NurseJackie Mar 2017 #264
I can back it by referencing the ads the party ran in the fall, and the speeches I heard. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #285
But where's your proof that a different ad would have made a difference? NurseJackie Mar 2017 #288
You set an impossible standard in asking that I prove that different ads would've worked better, Ken Burch Mar 2017 #289
"There's no way to prove a speculative outcome." Yes, thank you for admitting that! NurseJackie Mar 2017 #290
I don't scold. I critique and I try to do so with respect. Ken Burch Mar 2017 #291
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #299
Uh, bullshit. Warpy Mar 2017 #164
Obviously she didn't win the general election BainsBane Mar 2017 #173
OH, FFS Warpy Mar 2017 #221
The electoral college IS the general election BainsBane Mar 2017 #228
Then why bother voting? Warpy Mar 2017 #277
Here's an example. BainsBane Mar 2017 #166
When are they going to bring that OP rule back of 500 hundred posts or less cannot be done? nolabels Mar 2017 #167
I disagree. KentuckyWoman Mar 2017 #187
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2017 #196
Agreed. nt JCanete Mar 2017 #214
Yep, we gotta keep going for those "moderate republicans" who don't fucking exist. killbotfactory Mar 2017 #200
this person is a Plant BadGimp Mar 2017 #201
I'm not a plant. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #239
Fuck this thread & the notion we are to blame... Boxerfan Mar 2017 #202
jill stein owns a chunk of trump.. if you want to defend her.. please proceed Cha Mar 2017 #205
If you didn't vote for Clinton Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #242
Sorry cupcake, you're not clean either. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #282
Yes, we all could have done more BainsBane Mar 2017 #302
Sure we could have all done more Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #310
But it is not everyone, just the 'left'. Rex Mar 2017 #381
First, Idealogical purity isn't the issue. Idealogical diversity is one thing. JCanete Mar 2017 #206
Excellent post. Crunchy Frog Mar 2017 #266
What's the solution? onyxw Mar 2017 #211
The problem is that forjusticethunders Mar 2017 #247
Rightward shift onyxw Mar 2017 #263
I think the problem is that progressives are starting from an entirely wrong framework forjusticethunders Mar 2017 #270
Lulz Rex Mar 2017 #212
Democrats Seem to be Thinking Primarily in Terms of Issues On the Road Mar 2017 #229
Beg to differ: FDR (and to some extent, Adlai Stevenson) gave us Eisenhower. no_hypocrisy Mar 2017 #245
While you make some very good points Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #315
BULLSHIT! alarimer Mar 2017 #248
Those who refuse to learn from history Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #311
This message was self-deleted by its author Kolesar Mar 2017 #253
Dumb as dirt Stein voters were played by Putin. SunSeeker Mar 2017 #258
I'm always curious... vi5 Mar 2017 #280
Valid comment Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #314
Exactly..... vi5 Mar 2017 #331
It is not about blame Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #341
That OP is casting quite a bit of blame... vi5 Mar 2017 #368
Please don't put word in my mouth. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #407
"the extreme left gave us Nixon, Bush and now Trump" vi5 Mar 2017 #514
No other group would have mattered Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #516
Look at it this way vi5 Mar 2017 #519
I'm not letting anyone off the hook Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #532
How 'bout next time pecosbob Mar 2017 #287
Who was it who said: It's easier to fool people than to convince them they were already fooled. nikibatts Mar 2017 #293
Gonna have to disagree... JesterCS Mar 2017 #296
Not saying it doesn't Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #313
Makes sense to me. Q: Why does the GOP have such a large & secure base? Beartracks Mar 2017 #304
More like this OP is characteristic of why we've only won when KPN Mar 2017 #306
in your opening statement you state: Exilednight Mar 2017 #316
Please don't put word in my mouth. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #317
I didn't put words in your mouth, I quoted you exactly as you have it printed. Exilednight Mar 2017 #320
No you quoted one line Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #344
I quoted you verbatim, and it's not my fault your OP is factually inaccurate Exilednight Mar 2017 #347
One line Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #355
That's factually innacurate. when you start with a false narrative, then Exilednight Mar 2017 #357
Not a false narrative Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #358
Were Reagan, Bush and now Trump, centrists, or extreme right-wing nuts? Exilednight Mar 2017 #359
Never said they were centerists Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #361
You're denying that you stated: Exilednight Mar 2017 #362
Maybe if you read my whole post Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #398
You're starting from a false premise. Exilednight Mar 2017 #413
But you admitted that you didn't read the whole post Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #427
There is no point in reading something that is based upon a false Exilednight Mar 2017 #435
So you read one line and then pass judgement. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #437
I answered your question above. Will you answer my question about Exilednight Mar 2017 #441
No you didn't Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #447
Yes I did, and here's the link to prove it. Exilednight Mar 2017 #449
Well good for you! Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #451
I didn't spin anything, I quoted you. Exilednight Mar 2017 #455
Quoted then spun it to misrepresent what I wrote. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #460
You keep saying I spun your words. The only way that is possible is if Exilednight Mar 2017 #464
Never said they were so stop dishonestly putting words in my mouth. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #468
You never said they weren't. Exilednight Mar 2017 #473
They weren't Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #475
And now your argument is rendered moot based upon the false premise Exilednight Mar 2017 #483
Never said that either. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #492
What did you never say? Exilednight Mar 2017 #497
See that's the problem with misrepresenting the truth Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #502
Quoting you in context is misrepresenting you? Exilednight Mar 2017 #504
Yes and then you spun it out of context Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #505
I understand the definitions of "in" and "by". Exilednight Mar 2017 #507
Never said they were Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #508
It's only an honest discussion when you start with a hypothesis Exilednight Mar 2017 #513
It is based in truth. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #515
Now you're changing your hypothesis which is still based on a false premise Exilednight Mar 2017 #521
No I'm not. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #534
You can't even clarify who you are speaking of when Exilednight Mar 2017 #535
Still spinning Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #536
Says the person who can't give straightforward answers. Exilednight Mar 2017 #538
Well you have certain taken me seriously enough to keep responding Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #541
This is debate? Rex Mar 2017 #478
No you misunderstood the point Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #493
Wrong. Rex Mar 2017 #530
Sorry you didn't. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #533
But you still felt the need to comment Cary Mar 2017 #318
I point out hypocrisy when I see it. 5 of our last 7 POTUS have been Exilednight Mar 2017 #333
Nonsense Cary Mar 2017 #334
Do you believe Trump, Reagan and Bush are centrists? Exilednight Mar 2017 #335
I think you took a pot shot at the opening poster Cary Mar 2017 #336
Thanks! Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #345
I see I touched a nerve with my question. Exilednight Mar 2017 #348
And that's what matters, that you "touch a nerve." Cary Mar 2017 #349
Can you answer the question, or are you just going to keep deflecting? Exilednight Mar 2017 #350
No one has deflected you Cary Mar 2017 #363
WOW! Exilednight Mar 2017 #369
Why do you want to be a jerk? Cary Mar 2017 #372
If you believe that me pointing out a flaw in the OPs hypothesis Exilednight Mar 2017 #374
How you point out a flaw when you admitted that you didn't read the whole thing Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #404
Did Nader run this election cycle? Exilednight Mar 2017 #429
No Stein did Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #433
Did Stein pull enough votes that if every person who voted for her Exilednight Mar 2017 #438
The losses in Michagan and the other rust belt states Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #443
it would have taken all three states to swing the election to Hillary. Exilednight Mar 2017 #445
Why? Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #450
Who said they insisted on ideological purity? Exilednight Mar 2017 #452
Then why didn't they unite against Trump? Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #454
They don't support Democratic Party issues. Exilednight Mar 2017 #461
I don't believe they are loons or nutjobs Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #463
Read their platform. Exilednight Mar 2017 #467
So you are saying that people on the far left are nutjobs? Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #470
They're not far left. they're just far out there. They have no real Exilednight Mar 2017 #479
I have to disagree with you on that. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #482
Feel free to disagree. You're entitled to your opinion. Exilednight Mar 2017 #484
Well my opinion doesn't include degrading fellow americans Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #494
Hold On! You believe Stein supporters are liberals?!?!? Exilednight Mar 2017 #496
The only one wanting 100% purity are people like the OP. Rex Mar 2017 #459
Then you clearly missed the point Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #465
No I was spot on about the OP. Rex Mar 2017 #466
No you clearly misunderstood it. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #469
Wrong. Rex Mar 2017 #471
Not wrong Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #472
Wrong again. Rex Mar 2017 #474
No still right. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #476
I know I am still right. Rex Mar 2017 #477
You're starting to sound like Trump Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #481
Awww.... Rex Mar 2017 #485
No anger Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #495
Wrong. Rex Mar 2017 #529
As usual Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #543
blame US?? did WE pimp out turnip like the TEEVEE GNEWZ? no. THEY have been pushing the rite wing as pansypoo53219 Mar 2017 #332
Why can't the radical left stop the blah blah blah Cary Mar 2017 #346
Utter codswollop. truebluegreen Mar 2017 #354
Those who refuse to learn from history Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #356
Platitudes don't make your case. truebluegreen Mar 2017 #367
Nor do two word responses. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #397
The tens of millions of Republicans and those potential voters sitting out elections... Orsino Mar 2017 #364
It is not about blame Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #399
I notice you left out all those centrist Dems who crossed over and voted octoberlib Mar 2017 #382
Beat me to it, but hey since when did facts matter? Rex Mar 2017 #387
They wouldn't have mattered if Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #411
Wrong, it was the conservative side of the party that gave us those guys. Rex Mar 2017 #386
The conservative side Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #414
The left has always been united, it is the centrists that keep selling the party down the river. Rex Mar 2017 #418
So who were the millions who voted for Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #428
I don't know, did you know HRC won by 3 million votes? Rex Mar 2017 #431
Yet she got fewer votes that Obama in 12 Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #434
I said I did to you in another post upthread. Rex Mar 2017 #436
Then why are you so defensive about it. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #440
Why did you get so angry when I mentioned centrists? Rex Mar 2017 #442
Never got angry Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #444
Okay so that is a non answer on your part. Rex Mar 2017 #446
You're misrepresenting what I said. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #448
No I am not, your OP title is all about blame. Did you miss all the other people saying the same? Rex Mar 2017 #458
But did you read the whole post Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #501
Of course I did, it was total garbage. Rex Mar 2017 #531
Like I said Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #537
Bullshit. The path to hell was paved by... pat_k Mar 2017 #390
So you're makning the 100% Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #417
Nonsense , in my opinion kacekwl Mar 2017 #391
Those who refuse to learn from history Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #419
And those that make it up are mocked by those that know actual history. Rex Mar 2017 #425
Really? Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #430
This message was self-deleted by its author Rex Mar 2017 #432
Of course it is. Rex Mar 2017 #426
Another profound and articulate liquid diamond Mar 2017 #486
You can be very extreme left agincourt Mar 2017 #395
Lame Blame Game Dem2 Mar 2017 #457
Not about blame Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #462
Bull Dem2 Mar 2017 #488
You could start by having a serious discussion Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #499
A false starting premise. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #480
All true Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #500
Oh my. Scruffy1 Mar 2017 #487
Again it is not about blame Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #498
The far left is an embarrassment to the party. Oneironaut Mar 2017 #503
I wouldn't say that. Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #509
True, but I don't think it's possible when you have people that won't compromise. Oneironaut Mar 2017 #511
True Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #512
When speaking to a lot of people about the election, it turned out many stayed caroldansen Mar 2017 #506
Well said!!! nt Trumpocalypse Mar 2017 #510
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