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In reply to the discussion: The important thing right now is that we not offend the nation's gun apologists [View all]Chan790
(20,176 posts)21. Maybe it's time to start drafting stock rebuttals to their arguments.
"You are saying that all gun owners are murderers. That hurts my feelings."
You know what else is going to hurt your feelings? Meaningful gun-control legislation that your intransigence will keep you from having constructive input on.
"What about the millions who use guns to get their food? Huh? What about those millions? You want them to starve?"
If they're too stupid to be able to hunt with a low-capacity, medium-caliber long-gun like a bolt-action .30-06 then I think it's probably better for everybody that they procure their meat at the butcher's counter of their local supermarket. Also, millions? It's like 100,000 actual subsistence hunters at the most and probably 1/10 of that.
"You might as well give up right now, because you are too insignificant to have an impact on gun laws."
It would only take about 25,000 of us to take over the NRA; do you want to wager that I can't find 25,000 other people too insignificant to have an impact?
"We need to completely reform the mental health system before we do anything about guns."
You're right. We need to fix the mental health system that Ronald Reagan broke. Of course, that has nothing to do with gun control as mentally-ill people are more likely to be the victims of violence, with or without a gun, than the perpetrators.
"It's not a clip, it's a magazine. Discussion closed."
Minutia isn't rebuttal but I get why you'd want to shut down discussion on your indefensible RKBA position.
"It's not a magazine, it's a clip. Discussion closed."
Minutia isn't rebuttal but I get why you'd want to shut down discussion on your indefensible RKBA position.
"Chicago has tough gun laws, and they have a lot of gun deaths, so tough gun laws won't work"
All that tells us is that islands of gun-control don't work because people will bring in guns from less-strict jurisdictions. It's not a disproof of gun control; it's evidence of the need for a uniform national standard on gun-control.
"All those gun statistics are irrelevant because they include/don't include suicides."
I didn't realize that people who committed suicide with a gun were less dead than victims of gun violence.
"All you people who don't like to see guys with semi automatic guns in JC Penney are just hysterical and don't get it. It's no big deal."
I'd say it's up to the owner of an establishment then whether guns are permitted on their premises...we're not the ones that howl when a retailer permits guns. We just don't shop there. You're the ones that throw temper tantrums when retailers and restaurants exercise their legal rights to bar firearms from the premises. I'd say it's more of a big deal for you.
"If you take guns out of the hands of law abiding people, the only people who will be left with guns are the criminals."
Japan disproves this. Taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens at the same time punishments for illegal gun-possession were raised resulted in the Yakuza not being able to turn their guns in fast enough to avoid criminal prosecution. Today, gun-related crime in Japan is unheard of.
"A guy in Podunk stopped a crime with his gun. See? Guns work!"
A guy in rural CT also stopped a home invasion with a calcified bull penis. I'm not seeing anybody argue for the unfettered right to carry around a bull-cock for the purpose of self-defense. The Podunk homeowner is 3x more likely to be the victim of his own gun by an assailant than to use it successfully to stop such an attack. So, it's not about the guy in Podunk that stopped the home-invasion, it's about the previous statistical three guys that got shot in the face with their own gun.
"You don't know what a Myerson Double Triple Ammo Latch is, therefore you have no right to be having a discussion about guns"
You don't know the respective gun-control laws of all six New England states, therefore you have no right to be having a discussion about gun control.
"Cars kill more people per year. Should we ban cars?"
Cars and car-operation are far more regulated than firearms. If you agree to subject firearms to the same degree of registration, licensure, insurance, testing, and the right of the state to revoke your right to operate a piece of dangerous machinery for any reason it deems fit--as cars and driving are subjected to...we'll compromise to that right now and want for nothing else.
"I've never killed anybody, but I fantasize about someone breaking into my house every night."
I've never had a threesome with two ex-girlfriends, but every night I fantasize about that. Notably though, the odds of me having that threeway are a lot better than yours of being the victim of a home invasion. You're also more likely be be prematurely killed in your own bed by nature than an intruder. A gun isn't going to protect you from a tornado or falling limb or a mosquito.
"Statistically, gun deaths have decreased dramatically"
Have we reached zero? No, well then...there's room for improvement. One preventable gun death is one too many.
"If he hadn't had a gun, he could have used a knife or a baseball bat"
An armed assailant with a knife or a baseball bat is much easier to subdue than one with a firearm. You can bum-rush an assailant with a melee weapon with a high likelihood of no rusher suffering a serious, let alone fatal, injury. The same cannot be said to be true of a firearm. There's a reason why riflemen completely dominated the tactically-and-martially-superior samurai.
Any more I can draft stock responses to?
You know what else is going to hurt your feelings? Meaningful gun-control legislation that your intransigence will keep you from having constructive input on.
"What about the millions who use guns to get their food? Huh? What about those millions? You want them to starve?"
If they're too stupid to be able to hunt with a low-capacity, medium-caliber long-gun like a bolt-action .30-06 then I think it's probably better for everybody that they procure their meat at the butcher's counter of their local supermarket. Also, millions? It's like 100,000 actual subsistence hunters at the most and probably 1/10 of that.
"You might as well give up right now, because you are too insignificant to have an impact on gun laws."
It would only take about 25,000 of us to take over the NRA; do you want to wager that I can't find 25,000 other people too insignificant to have an impact?
"We need to completely reform the mental health system before we do anything about guns."
You're right. We need to fix the mental health system that Ronald Reagan broke. Of course, that has nothing to do with gun control as mentally-ill people are more likely to be the victims of violence, with or without a gun, than the perpetrators.
"It's not a clip, it's a magazine. Discussion closed."
Minutia isn't rebuttal but I get why you'd want to shut down discussion on your indefensible RKBA position.
"It's not a magazine, it's a clip. Discussion closed."
Minutia isn't rebuttal but I get why you'd want to shut down discussion on your indefensible RKBA position.
"Chicago has tough gun laws, and they have a lot of gun deaths, so tough gun laws won't work"
All that tells us is that islands of gun-control don't work because people will bring in guns from less-strict jurisdictions. It's not a disproof of gun control; it's evidence of the need for a uniform national standard on gun-control.
"All those gun statistics are irrelevant because they include/don't include suicides."
I didn't realize that people who committed suicide with a gun were less dead than victims of gun violence.
"All you people who don't like to see guys with semi automatic guns in JC Penney are just hysterical and don't get it. It's no big deal."
I'd say it's up to the owner of an establishment then whether guns are permitted on their premises...we're not the ones that howl when a retailer permits guns. We just don't shop there. You're the ones that throw temper tantrums when retailers and restaurants exercise their legal rights to bar firearms from the premises. I'd say it's more of a big deal for you.
"If you take guns out of the hands of law abiding people, the only people who will be left with guns are the criminals."
Japan disproves this. Taking guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens at the same time punishments for illegal gun-possession were raised resulted in the Yakuza not being able to turn their guns in fast enough to avoid criminal prosecution. Today, gun-related crime in Japan is unheard of.
"A guy in Podunk stopped a crime with his gun. See? Guns work!"
A guy in rural CT also stopped a home invasion with a calcified bull penis. I'm not seeing anybody argue for the unfettered right to carry around a bull-cock for the purpose of self-defense. The Podunk homeowner is 3x more likely to be the victim of his own gun by an assailant than to use it successfully to stop such an attack. So, it's not about the guy in Podunk that stopped the home-invasion, it's about the previous statistical three guys that got shot in the face with their own gun.
"You don't know what a Myerson Double Triple Ammo Latch is, therefore you have no right to be having a discussion about guns"
You don't know the respective gun-control laws of all six New England states, therefore you have no right to be having a discussion about gun control.
"Cars kill more people per year. Should we ban cars?"
Cars and car-operation are far more regulated than firearms. If you agree to subject firearms to the same degree of registration, licensure, insurance, testing, and the right of the state to revoke your right to operate a piece of dangerous machinery for any reason it deems fit--as cars and driving are subjected to...we'll compromise to that right now and want for nothing else.
"I've never killed anybody, but I fantasize about someone breaking into my house every night."
I've never had a threesome with two ex-girlfriends, but every night I fantasize about that. Notably though, the odds of me having that threeway are a lot better than yours of being the victim of a home invasion. You're also more likely be be prematurely killed in your own bed by nature than an intruder. A gun isn't going to protect you from a tornado or falling limb or a mosquito.
"Statistically, gun deaths have decreased dramatically"
Have we reached zero? No, well then...there's room for improvement. One preventable gun death is one too many.
"If he hadn't had a gun, he could have used a knife or a baseball bat"
An armed assailant with a knife or a baseball bat is much easier to subdue than one with a firearm. You can bum-rush an assailant with a melee weapon with a high likelihood of no rusher suffering a serious, let alone fatal, injury. The same cannot be said to be true of a firearm. There's a reason why riflemen completely dominated the tactically-and-martially-superior samurai.
Any more I can draft stock responses to?
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The important thing right now is that we not offend the nation's gun apologists [View all]
Orrex
Dec 2015
OP
Most of our resident "responsible gun owners" seem clearly to feel as if they are the real victims
Squinch
Dec 2015
#2
Thank you! I'll add them. I'm sure I'll have occasion to post the list again soon.
Squinch
Dec 2015
#4
Guns are easier to use, but don't underestimate stab wounds. A large enough knife
MillennialDem
Dec 2015
#77
Yes I said as much - but again there are so many different calibers of gun (in addition to rifle vs
MillennialDem
Dec 2015
#79
It's easier to kill faster with a gun, yes. But a single stab wound can, in some cases be far
MillennialDem
Dec 2015
#111
but that's ignoring many other factors, so you don't really know what's causing the high deaths
Fast Walker 52
Dec 2015
#94
Chan, seriously, the more I think about it, the more I think your idea to get non-gun people to
Squinch
Dec 2015
#74
Freaking trolls who crawl out of the woodwork to defend the idea that their hobby is worth
Squinch
Dec 2015
#51
Sheriffs in CO, NY and other localities have already refused to enforce certain state gun laws.
branford
Dec 2015
#114
I will be sure to add it the next time we need to post it. Because sadly, we know we will.
Squinch
Dec 2015
#69
This is a free society, so we have to accept the fact that X number of people will be slaughtered...
steve2470
Dec 2015
#18
I was also very surprised to discover that the interpretation of the 2A was not
Squinch
Dec 2015
#23
So now we are going in circles. As I have said to you before, all you are saying is that
Squinch
Dec 2015
#58
I don't blame the 2A. I blame the people who insist that their hobby is worth a weekly massacre.
Squinch
Dec 2015
#61
B-b-but, you're hurting their pwecious fee-fees. They need their FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!!!
backscatter712
Dec 2015
#33
if we want to start a conversation on guns, this is how we need to start off the conversation...
Javaman
Dec 2015
#19
I want jail sentences for the last person listed as owning any gun used in a crime,
Squinch
Dec 2015
#59
The only thing I am thinking is that if it becomes something that is well known, the gun nuts
Squinch
Dec 2015
#73
How is the membership in the NRA related to the membership in the NRA-ILA? Does the membership
Squinch
Dec 2015
#113
Again, thank you for this. Do you know if there are any organizations of gun owners who
Squinch
Dec 2015
#117
IMO, almost everyone attracted to these weapons should be prohibited from owning them.
Hoyt
Dec 2015
#109
You just implicitly compared the over 1 out of every 3 three American adults who own guns
branford
Dec 2015
#120
You just cannot seem to accept that there are millions of loyal and otherwise liberal Democrats
branford
Dec 2015
#123
There are roughly and equal number of vile racists in this country. Numbers don't make it right.
Hoyt
Dec 2015
#125
Always we must walk on eggshells around a certain group of people that have a penchant for
Rex
Dec 2015
#35
Is this why they suddenly used the term long gun instead of assault rifle?
Generic Other
Dec 2015
#66
The real victims are the innocent people killed and the families they left behind.
Thinkingabout
Dec 2015
#126