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In reply to the discussion: Why Europe Lets People Drown - The Automatic Earth [View all]suffragette
(12,232 posts)49. Your kind? Looks to me that you are the one making generalizations and deflecting from
the valid and specific points malaise has raised.
This is a complex and challenging situation, with war, conflict and racism leading to refugees fleeing for safety.
You write of nations or leaders being their own "masters." But the people fleeing had no say or mastery of the situation. They are simply trying to find somewhere they perceive as more stable or safe to go after being caught in the middle of conflict. And, as malaise notes, Europe helped push that conflict.
It's easy to find European reports of special forces from Uk and Europe who took part in the Libyan conflict. Should you add those to your list of sources that those you deride as "your kind" might cite?
But that would not fit your scenario, would it?
Here's just one small example from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16573516
Inside story of the UK's secret mission to beat Gaddafi
British efforts to help topple Colonel Gaddafi were not limited to air strikes. On the ground - and on the quiet - special forces soldiers were blending in with rebel fighters. This is the previously untold account of the crucial part they played.
Amnesty International has been reporting for years about the serious issue of refugees fleeing from Libya due to the conflict there.
From 2011, widely reported in European media, here's France 24's report on this:
http://www.france24.com/en/20110920-eu-shamefully-fails-aid-stranded-libyan-refugees-egypt-tunisia-saloum/
The widespread reports of abuses against black Africans hardly make Libya an agreeable place to return to, and yet, Amnesty International says more and more refugees are coming back to Libya in order to try to board Europe-bound boats.
The perils of the sea journey from North Africa to Europe are well documented, with Amnesty International estimating that more than 1,500 people have died attempting the trip since the start of the conflict in Libya.
For many hapless refugees stuck in a no-mans land between national borders, its a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea quite literally. Given that Europe is the ultimate destination of the perilous sea journey, human rights activists say Brussels must act and quickly.
"These people stranded on Libya's borders are between a rock and a hard place," said Beger. "It is time for the EU to shoulder responsibility for this crisis."
Amnesty International has continued reporting on this issue over the years, even doing an in-depth study of the ongoing problem. You can find much more at their site, if you would want to.
Adding to the complexity is that the closer ports of Greece and Italy, while more stable than war-torn areas, have economic stability issues themselves, made worse by years of austerity measures forced on them that have made the situation worse rather than better there. And again, some of the same countries that helped foment the conflict are those that have pushed austerity measures.
I am certain malaise would be familiar with the above and am glad to join her as being "your kind" any day of the week.
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If not America and Europe, who are the shining beacons of human rights and dignity?
DetlefK
Apr 2015
#10
Because America and Europe have imposed their preferred dictators in their countries
malaise
Apr 2015
#27
Your kind? Looks to me that you are the one making generalizations and deflecting from
suffragette
Apr 2015
#49
So Europe and America (I assume you mean North America, or just the United States of America?)
snooper2
Apr 2015
#50
"what Europe did to Africa to enrich one race of folks was the worst genocide in history"
EX500rider
Apr 2015
#45
Australia has had a policy for many years of denying entry to asylum seekers by the boatload
underahedgerow
Apr 2015
#2
This is just the leading edge of the coming tsunami of climate/economic refugees
GliderGuider
Apr 2015
#3
Interesting thread going on right now at city data forum from european's perspective
E-Z-B
Apr 2015
#5
It's echoing this entire thread on DU. Are you calling everyone here racists, too?
E-Z-B
Apr 2015
#18
Under UN Refugee Treaty, they have all vowed not to "refoule" (return) people fleeing persecution
leveymg
Apr 2015
#11
No. Under the UN Refugee treaty, asylum is supposed to be granted by receiving countries on arrival.
leveymg
Apr 2015
#21
That doesn't address the charge that Europe were somehow responsible for the deaths.
DetlefK
Apr 2015
#24
The images we saw yesterday were from a sinking near the coast, within territorial waters
leveymg
Apr 2015
#38
When they enter territorial waters or when they make a refugee claim and have ties to Italy.
leveymg
Apr 2015
#23
I believe it's when they set foot on the ground, literally. And the bigger question is Why should
underahedgerow
Apr 2015
#25
Entering territorial waters is the same as setting foot across a land border, as far as UNHCR
leveymg
Apr 2015
#28
Yep. This message will be ignored by racists, bigots, and other undesirables,
closeupready
Apr 2015
#56