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geek tragedy

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46. I doubt that will be much of an issue either.

Reply to msanthrope (Reply #44)

Wed Mar 25, 2015, 01:38 PM

Mar 2015

Last edited Wed Mar 25, 2015, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Person who didn't commit the crime not put in jail.

Snooze.

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Amanda Knox will again go before an Italian court [View all] tammywammy Mar 2015 OP

No she won't bluestateguy Mar 2015 #1

Then why did we sign an extradition treaty with that country? davidn3600 Mar 2015 #7

It wasn't magic. Their system changed for the worse when they passed the fast-track trial legislation. pnwmom Mar 2015 #11

Good post, pnwmom... hlthe2b Mar 2015 #21

Recommending your post! TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #34

Wow, I learned a lot from this post Bettie Mar 2015 #35

It sounds like a big part of the problem is the same problem we have here - prosecutors being Chathamization Mar 2015 #37

Yes, we do bribe possible witnesses with lower sentences, but we DON'T then pnwmom Mar 2015 #51

The difference is we require the bribe recipient to testify jeff47 Mar 2015 #76

Exactly. And that is a key difference. Their fast-track law specifically allows the person pnwmom Mar 2015 #111

+1 uponit7771 Mar 2015 #144

I've never heard such a well spoken summary Takket Mar 2015 #45

You're welcome Takket. This has been going on far too long, unfortunately. pnwmom Mar 2015 #52

No, the Italian courts and police have always been dreadful, corrupt, and incompetent. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #97

The fast track legislation is a relatively new development that made a bad system worse, pnwmom Mar 2015 #112

Thanks for posting this. Captain Stern Mar 2015 #109

You're welcome, Captain Stern. pnwmom Mar 2015 #113

Regardless, we shouldn't do it. She has already been tried. It is a case of double jeopardy by our still_one Mar 2015 #54

Our Constitution does not apply in foreign countries. Really, it doesn't. Hekate Mar 2015 #85

It apples to our citizens, and Amanda Knox is a US citizen, and she has Constitutional rights above still_one Mar 2015 #94

... Spider Jerusalem Mar 2015 #98

He is only one legal expert and many disagree with him. pnwmom Mar 2015 #118

You do realize, of course, that it's her appeal, right? Kinda blows the whole msanthrope Mar 2015 #207

You do realize that the 2nd appeal overturned her innocent verdict. She was found innocent pnwmom Mar 2015 #212

She was not found innocent. She was, however, initially found guilty, and the appeals msanthrope Mar 2015 #213

She was actually found innocent. There are two kinds of not-guilty verdicts in Italy, and the pnwmom Mar 2015 #214

Hellman was annulled. That "innocent" verdict does not exist. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #216

That is a legal fiction in Italy that the US has no need to accept. The State Department thought pnwmom Mar 2015 #217

I guess you were wrong about Italian justice, then? nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #225

I was right about Amanda's innocence. Were you? pnwmom Mar 2015 #226

No....I don't think you were right. I think Ms. Knox's character will out. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #227

Her character and Raffaele's have already been revealed. They have both held up pnwmom Mar 2015 #228

Where is OJ, pnwmom? He isn't guilty of his ex-wife's murder, either. msanthrope Mar 2015 #229

OJ was voted not-guilty, which was not the categorical assertion of innocence that went to pnwmom Mar 2015 #230

Like I said....you and I will have to agree to disagree. But Amanda msanthrope Mar 2015 #231

You're right, it doesn't. But the Supreme Court ruled in 1957 that our government cannot pnwmom Mar 2015 #114

That's a point. nt Hekate Mar 2015 #115

If we are not going to turn over CIA agents Kelvin Mace Mar 2015 #126

'All American Girl' and 'Kangaroo Court'. And let's not honor our extradition agreements! Okay, sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #120

I don't want Assange extradited, btw bluestateguy Mar 2015 #135

The Italian justice system is among the worst in western Europe -- so it is worse than ours, too. pnwmom Mar 2015 #137

While this is the pot calling the kettle black, mythology Mar 2015 #2

Insanely convoluted, if nothing else. Reminds me somewhat of Kafka's 'The Trial.' n/t nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #8

I'd be surprised if they sent her back. Our legal system offers one bite of the apple, and that's MADem Mar 2015 #3

The prosecution theory is truly bizzare Midnight Writer Mar 2015 #6

Consulting a psychic, multiple times??? That should be cause for disbarment. n/t nomorenomore08 Mar 2015 #9

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #22

A cop in a major us city told me that they do employ psychics in missing persons and murder cases. Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #92

The PA's in that Italian Provence, like in the US, have way to much authority uponit7771 Mar 2015 #145

I think she did it. And I think she got every advantage of the inefficiency msanthrope Mar 2015 #14

Isn't that interesting how two people can look at the same thing and see it so differently? MADem Mar 2015 #41

I didn't think she did it until I read in detail the Massei Report..... msanthrope Mar 2015 #43

Those led me to the very opposite conclusion! MADem Mar 2015 #47

This Sicilian can only shrug at that. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #48

I was closer to Roma; Sicilia is a world apart (though I enjoy it when I visit). nt MADem Mar 2015 #50

"This Sicilian" I see where your opinion comes from Bonx Mar 2015 #59

Agreed. 100% riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #68

I agree with you about Raffaele. I am much more concerned about him right now. pnwmom Mar 2015 #132

If you haven't read Judge Hellman's appeals report -- which contained an analysis of the DNA pnwmom Mar 2015 #131

Pnwmom....I read it in the Italian. And my point, which you seem to be msanthrope Mar 2015 #149

So? Please read the Hellman verdict in the Italian, and then get back to me. pnwmom Mar 2015 #161

As I said...the report of the first jury is the most instructive document msanthrope Mar 2015 #205

I read it a long time ago, in English. It and the Nencini verdict were nonsensical. nt pnwmom Mar 2015 #215

I read her book too JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #134

I can't watch that video I posted and ever TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #69

What video? nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #70

THIS video TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #73

I think a 4 minute video edit put out by people who admit they are advocates for Knox is worthless.. msanthrope Mar 2015 #75

LOL Your eyes don't see what you don't want to see TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #79

Like I said--a video put out by an advocacy group for Ms. Knox doesn't carry the same weight as a msanthrope Mar 2015 #80

And how about that BBC report TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #81

Well, I think that's why it's a far more balanced viewpoint than the edit job you posted. msanthrope Mar 2015 #90

ms can you do brief rundown or provide a link to the cell info? elehhhhna Mar 2015 #182

There's a couple of posts here..... msanthrope Mar 2015 #206

read for th we past hour elehhhhna Mar 2015 #222

Rudy was there. I think all three were involved. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #224

Problem with this video (and a lot of what appears in the US press) DanTex Mar 2015 #87

There was a much, much longer video on the web about a year ago TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #96

The only variable I've found about how people feel about this case DanTex Mar 2015 #101

The court system there is very, very strange. TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #106

I've dealt with Italian bureaucracy a bit myself. DanTex Mar 2015 #110

The extradition treaty was signed before Italy changed some major laws TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #116

Yes good talking to you. DanTex Mar 2015 #121

Just remember that it goes the other way, as well TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #127

Spot on re: how it is played out in the press JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #136

Amanda has a strange personality that the Europeans don't seem to understand davidn3600 Mar 2015 #74

Well, in some cases behavior after a crime is telling. DanTex Mar 2015 #86

Knox's doing splits in a police waiting room is bizarre wordpix Mar 2015 #153

Well, she said she was doing yoga to try to calm her nerves TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #162

Also falsely implicating an innocent man is pretty bizarre... DanTex Mar 2015 #169

do you hang out w a lot of people who's friends were just murdered elehhhhna Mar 2015 #192

This is where I'm leaning too. DanTex Mar 2015 #83

Dershowitz is scum, but he knows when a murderer is caught. And he's right....there's more than msanthrope Mar 2015 #91

Agreed about Dershowitz. On both counts. DanTex Mar 2015 #93

Knox's PR firm has used the OJ/Bronco defense.....did you know there msanthrope Mar 2015 #122

I posted in another subthread, one thing this case reminds of is Lance Armstrong (oddly, perhaps). DanTex Mar 2015 #123

That's a very apt description. I've noticed a very anti-Italian vibe here from some msanthrope Mar 2015 #124

Seriously, Italy is not Iran. DanTex Mar 2015 #125

I disagree about the Bronco Defense, Furhman was an ardent racist bastard cop... that alone uponit7771 Mar 2015 #148

Furhman was a racist.....but not an evidence planter. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #150

My Bad, Furhman was accused BEFORE the OJ trial of tampering and the PA had to drop that uponit7771 Mar 2015 #152

Dershowitz is just opining on a case he hasn't bothered to dig into. pnwmom Mar 2015 #130

That's what this whole thread is doing also. DanTex Mar 2015 #133

Some of us are far more informed than Dershowitz clearly is. And he only has experience pnwmom Mar 2015 #139

Not sure about that. DanTex Mar 2015 #143

But he doesn't have credibility because he clearly knows very little about the differences pnwmom Mar 2015 #147

Or else he does and he just disagrees with your assessment. DanTex Mar 2015 #151

There have been three courts that looked at the evidence. pnwmom Mar 2015 #157

You seem to be misrepresenting the evidence in the same way I described above. DanTex Mar 2015 #165

Wow. Now I understand. You are getting your "facts" from a hate site. pnwmom Mar 2015 #170

I just googled it up. Are you saying they fabricated the whole questioning? DanTex Mar 2015 #172

And here's another thing that pushes me towards the "guilty column". DanTex Mar 2015 #160

Okay, I can't listen to that because my old computer's sound isn't working. pnwmom Mar 2015 #164

Hmm. DanTex Mar 2015 #166

only sure thing about dersh is that elehhhhna Mar 2015 #194

How did she manage to do it and not leave a single speck of evidence pnwmom Mar 2015 #129

She must not go back to those horrible courts. Dawson Leery Mar 2015 #4

Considering that the Italian legal system SheilaT Mar 2015 #5

Not going to happen... Oktober Mar 2015 #10

Any US official that would send her back to Italy should be run out of town. n/t cpwm17 Mar 2015 #12

The Amanda Knox case is an example of slut-shaming taken the most extreme degree wyldwolf Mar 2015 #13

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #23

BULLSHIT. alarimer Mar 2015 #24

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #27

Clean-up on aisle 3. The 'condemn Knox' group has found DU. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #25

MIRT's on the job. GGJohn Mar 2015 #29

Bravo, MIRT!!! nt MADem Mar 2015 #42

Solid work. Bonx Mar 2015 #72

that is very inappropriate G_j Mar 2015 #28

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #32

Agreed. Bonx Mar 2015 #60

I completely agree with what you wrote in the title of your reply. This is definitely "slut-shaming" StevieM Mar 2015 #63

No, it would never happen. wyldwolf Mar 2015 #66

If we don't return her, Italy will become an attractive destination for fugitives from US justice, Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #15

Plenty of people flee to Europe to escape extradition to the US. geek tragedy Mar 2015 #17

If we extradited, we would be saying that basic rights to a fair trial are unimportant. pnwmom Mar 2015 #30

Naaah. Our justice system gives one bite of the apple. They've been gnawing at Knox for years, MADem Mar 2015 #49

If they want to end our extradition treaty, then our murderers and rapists become LittleBlue Mar 2015 #58

It would be a much greater dishonor to send her back to that kangaroo court. Bonx Mar 2015 #62

Not only Italy, but any other country that doesn't want to extradite people DanTex Mar 2015 #88

John Kerry would absolutely love for this to somehow go away. Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #89

better we don't dishonor our Constitution. She has been tried and acquitted already. still_one Mar 2015 #102

Nobody is going to extradite Amanda Knox anywhere alcibiades_mystery Mar 2015 #16

If John Kerry agrees to an extradition request, she will be going to Italy (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2015 #18

No, that's not how it works. She'd still have the right to contest geek tragedy Mar 2015 #20

If the court of causation signs off on this, nobody will ever see Amanda Knox again derby378 Mar 2015 #64

Italians won't even ask for extradition, this case is so flimsy and the geek tragedy Mar 2015 #19

Could be a big political hit against us no matter what davidn3600 Mar 2015 #33

Meh. Tabloid fodder at worst. geek tragedy Mar 2015 #38

You forget the Brits. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #44

I doubt that will be much of an issue either. geek tragedy Mar 2015 #46

beware. There is a group that often swoops in whenever Amanda Knox is mentioned... wyldwolf Mar 2015 #26

I remember that whole argument. I had read a lot about it at the time it CTyankee Mar 2015 #31

Yes, it's especially bad in the UK TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #40

I'm surprised she hasn't been on Dancing with the "Stars" yet underpants Mar 2015 #36

Other than raising money to pay for her attorney fees TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #39

That is as far from her personality as can be imagined. pnwmom Mar 2015 #53

Double Jeopardy is against our Constitution, and that is grounds for NOT honoring any extradition still_one Mar 2015 #55

It wouldn't be double jeopardy. It's the same case. DanTex Mar 2015 #84

From everything I have read your information is not correct still_one Mar 2015 #95

Those links deal with US law. This is the Italian legal system. DanTex Mar 2015 #99

US law protect US citizens. She is a US citizen in the US, and has already been tried and acquitted still_one Mar 2015 #100

In Italy, she's covered by Italian law. DanTex Mar 2015 #103

no way are we going to violate as U.S. citizens rights to honor Italian law still_one Mar 2015 #104

We'll see. But if she is found guilty, and isn't extradited, DanTex Mar 2015 #108

See Roman Polanski Johonny Mar 2015 #138

Depends on the specific treaty with the specific country. DanTex Mar 2015 #141

The 22 CIA agents who renditioned that cleric from Milan haven't been extradited riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #140

Italy didn't request extradition in that case. DanTex Mar 2015 #142

Yes I know. Was just addressing the point that a guilty verdict always means extradition riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #146

No, we do apply US Due Process considerations to extradition jberryhill Mar 2015 #204

Looks like they are going to make her sweat a few more days davidn3600 Mar 2015 #56

F**k Italy. Burn that extradition treaty LittleBlue Mar 2015 #57

Regardless of how you feel about her, it must be devastating to live with that hanging over closeupready Mar 2015 #61

And there will always be the crazies even here who could be out to get her, pnwmom Mar 2015 #65

Sure, I can see that. Who wants that kind of infamy following them through life? closeupready Mar 2015 #67

You can bet that the Kerchers will also go after any money she makes no matter what happens here davidn3600 Mar 2015 #71

Won't take years or that much legal money, just enough to get geek tragedy Mar 2015 #77

I think most of that money is gone TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #82

I hope we just keep her here. Heck with the Italian judicial joke yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #105

I don't know the truth about her, nor do I care particularly. 6000eliot Mar 2015 #78

Understand your apprehension on her innocence. yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #107

Yes, that's basically my view. She's not a good PR person for herself at all. closeupready Mar 2015 #117

She's an introvert and her own person, and she was never part of the cool crowd. pnwmom Mar 2015 #119

Knox incriminated herself, admitting she was present wordpix Mar 2015 #155

Do you know how many innocent people on death row were there because of false confessions? pnwmom Mar 2015 #158

Just to not let false statements stand. She made the confession after 2.75 hours. DanTex Mar 2015 #168

I never said that she had had four days without food, water, or an attorney. But I did say pnwmom Mar 2015 #171

Her statements were made after 2.75 hours of interrogation, at most. DanTex Mar 2015 #173

You couldn't be more wrong but I won't accuse YOU of lying. Just of being grossly misinformed. pnwmom Mar 2015 #174

You are right. I stand corrected. DanTex Mar 2015 #175

I am very impressed, DanTex. pnwmom Mar 2015 #177

No need to be impressed. Being wrong is easy :) DanTex Mar 2015 #179

Here's how I made my initial decision that there was more than enough reasonable doubt. pnwmom Mar 2015 #181

Wasn't there evidence that the break-in was faked? DanTex Mar 2015 #183

No, that was wrong, too. There was evidence of a burglary, yes, and broken glass. pnwmom Mar 2015 #185

I would think investigators can tell a faked burglary from a real one. DanTex Mar 2015 #186

The second jury DID decide that the burglary was not faked. Please read the report by Judges Hellman pnwmom Mar 2015 #188

About the lawyer, here is my current understanding: DanTex Mar 2015 #190

Yes, that is the police claim. But since they didn't follow their own law to record their pnwmom Mar 2015 #191

So it's under dispute. But, yes, the lack of video is a good argument. DanTex Mar 2015 #195

The police were recording all the telephone calls between Amanda and her family, pnwmom Mar 2015 #199

Also, I have to go right now, but I'm sure this will be discussed again here tomorrow. DanTex Mar 2015 #196

You're welcome, DanTex. See you later. n/t pnwmom Mar 2015 #200

OK, here's where I'm at. DanTex Mar 2015 #209

I kept meaning to get back to you with an explanation of the bra clasp riderinthestorm Mar 2015 #223

One last thing. Part of where I'm coming from here is that this whole case DanTex Mar 2015 #198

I'm not familiar with the Armstrong case, but I can see why there would seem to be parallels. pnwmom Mar 2015 #201

Guede was very weird. TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #202

Another question: what's with the changing alibis? DanTex Mar 2015 #184

Good question and thank you for asking. pnwmom Mar 2015 #187

Thanks for the link. DanTex Mar 2015 #189

wikipedia? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2015 #163

Why Amanda Knox was Innocent with Retired FBI Steve Moore cpwm17 Mar 2015 #128

Stuff like this is what makes me think she's guilty. (I'm WRONG) DanTex Mar 2015 #154

I disagree, I think these two are making a good case for her innocence wordpix Mar 2015 #156

You disagree about that the accusation came after 2-3 hours and not 50? (I'm wrong about this) DanTex Mar 2015 #159

Maybe you could think about correcting this post, now that you know the truth about her interrogation. pnwmom Mar 2015 #178

Yes, I will. DanTex Mar 2015 #180

Even with the vast resources we have through the internet where news travels in a flash instant Wash. state Desk Jet Mar 2015 #167

Could it not be that the US public has been played by the US media? DanTex Mar 2015 #176

I don't know where you got that Dan Tex Wash. state Desk Jet Mar 2015 #197

For a decade, Armstrong was one of the most high-profile and best paid DanTex Mar 2015 #210

I know who lance is dan tex Wash. state Desk Jet Mar 2015 #219

I actually saw the end one of the tours he won from Paris. DanTex Mar 2015 #220

It is amazing and powerful. Wash. state Desk Jet Mar 2015 #221

There are pro-guilters and supporters of Amanda Knox in our media TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #208

No. The US media started off aping the British media, getting lots of attention pnwmom Mar 2015 #234

The Knox Guilters and Tabloid Victims never cease to amaze me. maxsolomon Mar 2015 #193

"The prosecution's narrative of the murder is patently absurd" Bonx Mar 2015 #211

Yeah! TexasMommaWithAHat Mar 2015 #218

Some legal discussion on the subject, by international law experts: elleng Mar 2015 #203

Thanks. I'd seen this before. There are different ways of interpreting the particular sentence that could pnwmom Mar 2015 #232

YES, THANKFULLY it's moot! elleng Mar 2015 #233