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karynnj

(59,501 posts)
15. Agree, but it is funny that Parry, who always spoke in absolute morality terms, is for Realpolitik
Fri Nov 14, 2014, 11:12 AM
Nov 2014

That is what he is doing here. I doubt that anyone serious about understanding Russia (USSR too) post WWII did not realize that Russia has put enormous importance on having a buffer of satellite countries surrounding it. Kissinger's realpolitik view is let them have it - even if it means actually rebuffing those countries if they prefer to have links to both their neighbor, Russia, and their western neighbors in the EU.

One surprising thing to me on DU, is that many of the people who actually agree that EU and the US should not have had any outreach are the first to argue that long established American policy (the Monroe doctrine) has done really bad things in Latin America. (Oddly, most of these critics ignored when the Obama administration said the Monroe doctrine was NOT their policy.)

I can understand why various foreign policy people speak to Kissinger. He has a wealth of experience and knowledge of many past factors that could inform the current positions of people like Putin. However, in additional to the wealth of knowledge and diplomatic skill which he undeniably has, he is essentially amoral. This is why I have no problem when a statesman, who I know to have integrity and has shown himself (or herself) to be moral consults with Kissinger on his ideas on dealing with some adversary. They will, of course, use their own acumen and diplomatic skills -- and importantly, apply their own moral values.

I realize that some here would rather that Democrats never speak to a man that many consider a war criminal. However, if the result is that the statesman considers something ahead of time that helps him (her) craft a better plan for negotiations, how does that in any way compromise the statesman.

When Parry starts pimping Kissinger, I know he's gone completely insane Blue_Tires Nov 2014 #1
Do you also consider Hillary Clinton completely insane? starroute Nov 2014 #3
. nationalize the fed Nov 2014 #4
I think I have to disagree with Monty Python on one detail Electric Monk Nov 2014 #5
I'm addressing Parry's assertions here Blue_Tires Nov 2014 #6
Yes I do. Eridenus Nov 2014 #27
There you have it. Proof positive that Robert Parry has jumped the shark as a journalist. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #2
He's discussing an ISSUE raised by Kissinger eridani Nov 2014 #7
Those who have attempted to use Parry as a voice of authority on Ukraine.... Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #13
Let's have an example of Parry being factually wrong n/t eridani Nov 2014 #31
Hell, you don't have to go beyond the piece you just posted to find examples of that. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #32
It would never have happened without the fascist thugs eridani Nov 2014 #33
Yanukovych himself had no interest in waiting for elections. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #39
The violent parts of the Maidan protest were due to the fascist thugs. eridani Nov 2014 #50
Actually, Yanukovych was the first to use violence against the protesters. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #54
The violence that actually overthrew the government was perpetrated by fascist thugs eridani Nov 2014 #55
Again, the violence started with Yanukovych. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #56
The only Maidan protesters who were violent were the fascists eridani Nov 2014 #57
That's a rather broad statement, don't you think? Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #58
Well said...issues and ideas... KoKo Nov 2014 #19
eridani - truth2power Nov 2014 #44
You can drop all the names you like, but if what they're saying doesn't jive with the actual facts.. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #45
You've already used that excuse, Tommy. Try again.. truth2power Nov 2014 #46
How's it an excuse? You're appealing to authority.... Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #47
I'm not doing your work for you... truth2power Nov 2014 #48
It's your conspiracy theory to prove. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #49
Agree, but it is funny that Parry, who always spoke in absolute morality terms, is for Realpolitik karynnj Nov 2014 #15
I don't know. His books on diplomacy are really good Recursion Nov 2014 #37
Kissinger is saying the strong state should get to dominate the weak one. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #8
All Middle Eastern countries that the US is bombing prefer that that not be the case eridani Nov 2014 #9
Iraq and Yemen would disagree with your assertion. geek tragedy Nov 2014 #10
Which is exactly the same as what US imperialist apologists think like eridani Nov 2014 #11
Chickenshit sir? Chickenshit? Xolodno Nov 2014 #34
Not quite: it sounds like Kissinger is saying that American officials misunderstood Putin Wella Nov 2014 #12
Putin had abundant opportunities to save face and geek tragedy Nov 2014 #26
We're not talking about reason: we're talking about diplomacy Wella Nov 2014 #30
A well stated under statement. Xolodno Nov 2014 #35
I think you're onto something. Wella Nov 2014 #38
A fascist principle and not surprising coming from someone like Kissinger. pampango Nov 2014 #21
As someone who grew up seeing stories of the atrocities in Bosnia and Rwanda... Odin2005 Nov 2014 #29
Kissinger's position (and by extension, Parry's) is completely non-sensical. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #14
Great summary karynnj Nov 2014 #16
I agree. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #17
Interesting conjecture that the President of Ukraine could have traded Crimea for sanctuary karynnj Nov 2014 #18
Isn't he saying Putin has every incentive to go into Crimea, but no farther? Recursion Nov 2014 #36
If that's his analysis, events in Eastern Ukraine would currently be proving him wrong. nt Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #40
I never said the man was infallible, just smart (nt) Recursion Nov 2014 #41
Definitely not stupid. Just amoral. nt Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #42
Right. That's why his book is worth reading Recursion Nov 2014 #43
He may be right about the Crimea hifiguy Nov 2014 #20
Actually, when you think that Kissinger starts to sound like the voice of reason, you should start pampango Nov 2014 #22
It was a lame attempt by Parry to explain away why Kissinger is adopting Parry's stances on Ukraine Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #23
Encyclopedic references to the term "Any port in a storm" should refer to this article. nt stevenleser Nov 2014 #24
On a very meta level, it's very Realpolitik, wouldn't you agree? Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #25
Yep. None of us should be surprised when Kissinger minimizes an unprovoked war of aggression stevenleser Nov 2014 #51
Mainly because Kissinger's saying what Parry had already said. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2014 #53
Henry the War Criminal can kiss my Liberal Internationalist ass. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #28
well one war criminal knows well another war criminal rafeh1 Nov 2014 #52
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