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Igel

(35,293 posts)
17. Russia has deployed Chechens to fight.
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:40 PM
Sep 2014

And the DNR is more than happy to have chetnici fighting and defending them.

These were Hitler allies in WWII. They massacred Muslims in Srebrenica. In the 1940s.

Oddly, nobody likes to point these out, either.

The problem is fairly simple once you get past details.

Where there are Ukrainian forces, there are few attacks on gays or on Russians for using Russian. There's the occasional attack on Russian orthodox churches, but not so many. There are some fascists, but most of them aren't what we'd call fascists. They're anti-Russians. Some are dyed-in-the-wool fascists, but there's a good reason that most European fascists went with Putin and not with Yatseniuk.

Where there are DNR and LNR forces, you find Catholic churches closed. Most Jews have fled the Donbas because of persecution--and sought shelter not in Russia, but in "fascist Ukraine." You find gay clubs closed and gays bashed for violating morality laws. You find bookstores that sell Ukrainian books shut. Not by the occasional basher of all things Ukrainian or gay or Jewish, but as a matter of policy, by high-ranking politicians enjoying government and DU support.

It's not individual instances of abuse. Those you can find in Sweden, in Norway, nearly anyplace you find people and those that can be bashed. What you need to look for is the patterns. Even where the "fascist battalions" go in after a battle you find fewer abuses than where the LNR and DNR have uncontested power. The only place you really find a lot of abuses showing up is in the Russian media--and by and large, those incidents lack evidence even on the ground when media go to find corroboration.

People get hung up on words. The problem is when you get caught up on words as used in a society that, for decades, delighted in manipulating the meanings of words. Where "fascist" means "anti-Soviet," but "Soviet" means Russian. Where "conservatives" are pro-Stalinist or at least pro-Communist, while "raging liberals" are for a mixed economy. Where the use of "objective" means "how I see it," while "subjective" means how anybody else sees it.

You can translate the morphemes, but often that masks the meaning.

The New York Times??? malaise Sep 2014 #1
Character Assassins love social media. Octafish Sep 2014 #30
AND it can be automated! nashville_brook Sep 2014 #32
Smear Once. Use Often. Octafish Sep 2014 #40
Parry. LOL...nt SidDithers Sep 2014 #2
What we both know is coming in 3...2...1... NuclearDem Sep 2014 #7
Yup. 'Robert Parry is one of the most credible journalists in the world... SidDithers Sep 2014 #8
"Same shit, different day. Sid." Karmadillo Sep 2014 #11
Lol, I was counting, 1,2,3, wait for it, wait for it! You too? Is the sky blue, does the sun rise sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #13
it never ceases to amaze me how SURE people can be about nashville_brook Sep 2014 #35
Exactly, the US Media was totally wrong about Iraq, and Parry was right. It is amazing that sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #43
And there it is... SidDithers Sep 2014 #29
You predicted Nuclear Dem's posts also? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #44
Fringe lunatics like Parry should be embarrassed... joeybee12 Sep 2014 #3
Thank you for your response. Could you please specify what Parry is making up Karmadillo Sep 2014 #4
Those Nazi attackes on Russians... joeybee12 Sep 2014 #5
I think you mistyped Poroshenko reorg Sep 2014 #9
Ukraine crisis: the neo-Nazi brigade fighting pro-Russian separatists Karmadillo Sep 2014 #12
Maybe you should try pulling your head out of the TV? MattSh Sep 2014 #34
What did he make up? It appears now that even the MSM has found their conscience, and are beginning sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #14
Those Russian troops are just on vacation! NuclearDem Sep 2014 #6
You mean like two US Senators and members of the State Dept were just 'passing through' on THEIR sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #15
OFFS sabrina. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #18
Every thread about Russia IS about the US. Do you know how much money we are spending over there? sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #19
OFFS. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #39
This has nothing to do with anything fadedrose Sep 2014 #42
" . . . you seem to pop up in nearly every thread about it . . . " Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #20
It's absolutely NOT a coincidence. See my response to that post and you won't need to guess why sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #33
And how many Blackstone/Xe/Academi are over there? MattSh Sep 2014 #36
He once wrote some great articles about how Bush and his cronies are douchebags! zappaman Sep 2014 #10
I know I've been asking this question and cannot get an answer. We know you don't like any of the sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #16
Russia has deployed Chechens to fight. Igel Sep 2014 #17
Cancelled Gay Pride in Kyiv Signals Conservative Shift in Ukraine reorg Sep 2014 #21
Putin supporters pretending to care about GLBT rights. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #24
Sidestepping the N-word reorg Sep 2014 #25
There are Nazis everywhere. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #27
Look far right, and look right again reorg Sep 2014 #22
The big lie from the Russian fascists' propaganda machine. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #23
Please tell us which European government reorg Sep 2014 #26
Do you consider Russia part of Europe? geek tragedy Sep 2014 #28
Ukraine is the first country where Neonazis joined a government coalition reorg Sep 2014 #45
Get back to us after the parliamentary elections. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #46
"Parry is a fascist bootlicker." nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #37
Putin is a fascist. Parry licks his boots geek tragedy Sep 2014 #38
There are a whole lot of Parrys out there reporting exactly what he is reporting. I guess all of sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #47
Russia is a state sponsor of Nazism in Europe geek tragedy Sep 2014 #31
I pity the people of Ukraine. JEB Sep 2014 #41
Even when Parry's not completely wrong, he still comes off as the huge hypocrite that he is. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #48
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