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joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
155. Not really.
Sun Jul 13, 2014, 09:45 AM
Jul 2014

My beef is that we're attacking the symptom as opposed to the cause.

And when Democrats do talk about attacking the cause (in one case it's the corporate tax rate which has way too many loopholes) it's sort of ignored or deflected. Democrats say "we need to close the loopholes and lower the rate," everyone focuses on "lowering the rate." Why? The high end is higher than Germany. So why not adjust it down to Germany's rate, and then close the loopholes? It's a win win.

Now you'd call be a pragmatist for saying that, I think it's just common darn sense.

Additionally, give tax incentives to companies which do keep their manufacturing here and who do hire American employees.

Of course, that wouldn't stop something like TPP from being created, but it could probably be made public at that point, because it wouldn't have the kind of economic subterfuge that is necessary to maintain our import economy while at the same time marginalizing our biggest global threats (China and Russia). Slave manufactured goods and oil are unsustainable, and the US knows it.

Automation is going to take over slave labor and renewables are going to take over oil. The question is whether we get off the import economy before it happens or if we strangle the rest of the world while we do it. It appears that we are doing the latter. And the latter will take a lot longer because it means letting the almighty "markets" bring forth renewable energy and automation as opposed to a grand bargain which could bring it about decades sooner.

Lest I ramble on further about how a living wage is going to be absolutely necessary in this new world.

there you go again, criticizing the president's wishes for the 99% :-) nt msongs Jul 2014 #1
They cannot. djean111 Jul 2014 #2
Prophetic 1994 Interview On GATT - No One Fighting For The TPP Could Be A Friend Of The 99% - Link Below cantbeserious Jul 2014 #3
those are great videos. Thanks for posting those. nt antigop Jul 2014 #17
^^^^^^^^Don't miss this post.^^^^^^^^^ woo me with science Jul 2014 #116
That was certainly right on the money. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #148
I was dumbstruck! cprise Jul 2014 #152
The best on DU ^^^this^^^ L0oniX Jul 2014 #158
He warned about Derivatives, among other things. Martin Eden Jul 2014 #165
It's most likely horrible for the average American. It will further erode what's left of... stillwaiting Jul 2014 #4
Sadly, more don't care because even the secrecy is secret. arcane1 Jul 2014 #7
+1 Enthusiast Jul 2014 #103
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #5
"Free trade" and freedom/democracy are incompatible. arcane1 Jul 2014 #6
They can't. They are, to use your own words, "violently mutually exclusive." woo me with science Jul 2014 #8
That's why Warren's "Hillary is terrific" comment is disappointing cprise Jul 2014 #57
You are so right. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #108
Nice. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #106
They can't. They can be arguably less hostile but that is far as I can go with it. TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #9
Bingo! Scuba Jul 2014 #10
TPP is Game Over. blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #11
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2014 #12
Kicked and recommended! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #13
Hillary Clinton's Business Legacy at State Department (leading part in drafting TPP) antigop Jul 2014 #14
and how can anyone claim that a TPP supporter supports Democratic goals? nt antigop Jul 2014 #15
The pro-TPP people use the same argument as the pro-GMO people. pnwmom Jul 2014 #16
It's like trending toward a Brave New World. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #142
They can't nor can they if they support Torture or acts of war against innocent people. Vincardog Jul 2014 #18
+1 for Western Civilization reddread Jul 2014 #157
A kick and recommend for visibility of THE most important issue. Populist_Prole Jul 2014 #19
EXACTLY right. CaliforniaPeggy Jul 2014 #20
+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #110
In one word? No. AAO Jul 2014 #21
No, they don't need it... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #22
It must be very tiring to be your friend. randome Jul 2014 #23
There's one nice thing about the TPP and other MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #26
When the SS cuts coming again?? JoePhilly Jul 2014 #48
When are the other 82% of the Bush tax cuts getting repealed? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #49
+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #112
Keep selling it. JoePhilly Jul 2014 #183
Who put SS cuts on the table again? sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #175
They exist. The GOP hates them. JoePhilly Jul 2014 #185
The elderly and disabled ARE there. Sorry to be so disgruntled on behalf of the most vulnerable sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #193
Not this utter nonsense again. woo me with science Jul 2014 #187
+1 an entire shit load. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #111
Indeed. nt woo me with science Jul 2014 #180
Who is "pro" TPP? We can't be for or against something we haven't yet seen. MADem Jul 2014 #28
Um, Obama? Hillary Clinton? Marr Jul 2014 #33
They are for the PROCESS. They are for a treaty that binds together a group of nations to MADem Jul 2014 #55
I'm sorry, but that's just desperately, unconvincingly naive. Marr Jul 2014 #60
And we know that many in Congress aren't supporting it, but you'd never guess that by looking MADem Jul 2014 #67
Way to go, Marr. Excellent argument. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #115
Obama wants fast track authority to speed passage of his agreement. pa28 Jul 2014 #61
He might not get it. This thing just isn't popular, first off, and second, we're apparently not MADem Jul 2014 #66
all the more reason to not be complacent & "give up" hopemountain Jul 2014 #83
Why does the President want something that is harmful to working class Americans? Enthusiast Jul 2014 #118
Really? Obama makes you "suspicious?" MADem Jul 2014 #139
Hilarious! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #141
Yep, that's my response. nt MADem Jul 2014 #144
He won't get it, and I'm not convinced he wants it. I do know that it Hoyt Jul 2014 #147
Trade agreements are passed as regular laws, not as treaties Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #65
And they might not have that simple majority in the House. This thing is not as popular amongst the MADem Jul 2014 #73
The OP didn't say squat about the TPP's popularity either here or abroad MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #91
Well, the popularity--or lack thereof--of the TPP makes a difference as to how much weight MADem Jul 2014 #105
My hero? I wrote that? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #137
And I just named him as the architect of "smart track" to reconcile concerns with the TPP. MADem Jul 2014 #143
Of course nothing will happen until after the election, which we KNOW, and which is WHY it is sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #176
There's a huge cadre of legislators who have to stand for reelection on a frequent basis in the MADem Jul 2014 #190
Clever wording. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #119
We entered into CAFTA, and not all that many years later, we have an influx of immigrants JDPriestly Jul 2014 #149
That's not an unimportant point but it is tangential to this one. MADem Jul 2014 #191
As Elizabeth Warren was told... MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #36
Do you really want conservatives weighing in with anti-choice positions? randome Jul 2014 #38
"Negotiating in secret is essential to keep special interests out." F4lconF16 Jul 2014 #41
Agreed. davidthegnome Jul 2014 #166
There are hundreds of private US corporations getting real-time info on the talks, MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #46
+1 GoneFishin Jul 2014 #117
The President is a trusting person. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #121
What? Armstead Jul 2014 #84
If you're concerned about choice you should know about our partners rights record. pa28 Jul 2014 #88
Dang! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #122
oh, really? then, it is not a democracy hopemountain Jul 2014 #92
Well said. It is fascism. It is the merger of state and corporations, and the dismantling woo me with science Jul 2014 #100
It is precisely Fascism. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #123
LOL Enthusiast Jul 2014 #120
We haven't properly recovered from the CAFTA agreement. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #150
I like Elizabeth Warren, I helped get her elected, but I don't need her to explain things to me. MADem Jul 2014 #40
"I *swear* Charlie Brown, I swear!" MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #44
And...there you go again, right on schedule. MADem Jul 2014 #50
YOU are the one claiming that the US must keep the talks secret. MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #53
No, I am not saying that--I'm saying that it's what they agreed to when they entered the process. MADem Jul 2014 #59
You are stating that our country agreed to enter secret negotiations MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #77
I think YOU need to provide that reference--you're the one complaining about it, not me. MADem Jul 2014 #101
Wait... So *you* claim our President swore an oath of secrecy, then MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #104
No, you did, apparently. MADem Jul 2014 #107
Ok then, we'll call it a draw. MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #132
Sure. MADem Jul 2014 #145
Wow, that was a very long post about Manny. nt woo me with science Jul 2014 #97
I guess if you can't dazzle them with brilliance... nt MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #109
You know all about that, I'm sure. nt MADem Jul 2014 #113
+1 woo me with science Jul 2014 #124
I find it amazing. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #125
Tea Tots are not the only group pandered to roseBudd Jul 2014 #54
Physician Heal Thyself Armstead Jul 2014 #89
there is plenty of information extant to draw the very reasonable conclusion cali Jul 2014 #151
It's not a 'deal' though. It's a process. As I've said, repeatedly. MADem Jul 2014 #192
And Warren was "told" by Larry Summers "Insiders don't criticize other insiders!" cascadiance Jul 2014 #45
Fortunately, Warren and a few others kept Summers MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #86
Think maybe we should be able to see it and consider it? Armstead Jul 2014 #82
We surely will at some point in time. MADem Jul 2014 #136
And we are asked to assume it is "bad" treestar Jul 2014 #154
While I agree that there should be more transparency in the process, I can understand MADem Jul 2014 #189
I believe you've asked that question before and the answer is still the same. rhett o rick Jul 2014 #181
How about not asking such divisive rhetoricals in the first place? How about discussing the issue? MADem Jul 2014 #188
Seems to me that you are making a simple issue, complicated. There has been no one that rhett o rick Jul 2014 #194
So you, too, are ready to toss Wyden under the bus? nt MADem Jul 2014 #197
Yeah, that's called 'not caring'. Marr Jul 2014 #30
Fair enough but I don't see that Obama is my implied 'enemy' because of one specific issue. randome Jul 2014 #39
Obama aside, These "free trade" agrements ARE the enemy of the 99 percent Armstead Jul 2014 #90
+1. Thank you. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #128
I don't see why any liberal would need to check any list to find out what might please another sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #68
Consistently Liberal? Why only a shill for George Bush could be MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #78
True, the word has been hi-jacked it seems by the Third Way thinking it is clever sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #87
++++1! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #130
Geez. Great post. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #129
How do you respond to, "How can a person who fights for the TPP be considered a friend of the 99%?" rhett o rick Jul 2014 #184
Yep MissDeeds Jul 2014 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author IkeRepublican Jul 2014 #25
TPP followers are simply stupid and frustrated IkeRepublican Jul 2014 #27
I think some of them may benefit from the status quo. nt antigop Jul 2014 #34
I like your style, Ike. davidthegnome Jul 2014 #171
That is true IkeRepublican Jul 2014 #198
We haven't had a president that's for the people since Carter. There won't be another one IMO. L0oniX Jul 2014 #29
Believe it or not... MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #32
Where would we be now had we followed his conservation agenda of fuel efficient cars. L0oniX Jul 2014 #35
I remember it well. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #131
I consider anyone who supports the TPP, my sworn enemy. 99Forever Jul 2014 #31
^^^this^^^ L0oniX Jul 2014 #37
this + 1. nt navarth Jul 2014 #42
Me too. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #133
Senator Wyden is your sworn enemy, then. MADem Jul 2014 #114
Yes yes yes! Populist_Prole Jul 2014 #146
K & R historylovr Jul 2014 #43
Let's not forget about TISA that is trying to sneak in with all of our attention on the TPP... cascadiance Jul 2014 #47
2000 stepped it up . orpupilofnature57 Jul 2014 #52
+1000000 woo me with science Jul 2014 #99
That's what I'm saying. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #135
+1! Enthusiast Jul 2014 #134
Because the 1% says they are . orpupilofnature57 Jul 2014 #51
That's not a problem Manny..... DeSwiss Jul 2014 #56
TPP is geopolitical. joshcryer Jul 2014 #58
Yes, it is an "alliance." MADem Jul 2014 #62
I didn't intend to imply it was about pollution. joshcryer Jul 2014 #63
I didn't think you did, it was just that your comments here MADem Jul 2014 #75
Thank you for that perspective. n/t cheapdate Jul 2014 #69
I agree. Very good analysis. MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #79
Not really. joshcryer Jul 2014 #155
so the cause is loss of manufacturing questionseverything Jul 2014 #178
I know. joshcryer Jul 2014 #186
I agree with you -- but the values it represents is a Catch 22 Armstead Jul 2014 #93
DURec leftstreet Jul 2014 #64
China is getting uppity, India is getting expensive, plenty of cheap fresh meat in Vietnam, etc whereisjustice Jul 2014 #70
You cannot support this abomination and claim to be even a decent human being, let alone sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #71
Do you know something that Paul Krugman doesn't? Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #74
Maybe Paul Krugman didn't read the leaks from Wikileaks, or maybe he doesn't care sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #81
Actually, Paul Krugman issued a statement after he made these comments, woo me with science Jul 2014 #95
Thanks, I am always amazed that people think, or at least some people, that if they appeal to some sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #102
Krugman is brilliant in many ways -- but he has always had a blind spot for free trade Armstead Jul 2014 #94
+1 woo me with science Jul 2014 #96
That's because he never worked in a factory in Ohio. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #138
Amen. woo me with science Jul 2014 #76
You can declare Hillary Clinton your enemy. cheapdate Jul 2014 #72
I did not advise Hillary on which position to take. MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #85
Yes, politicians get to decide for themselves what they believe. cheapdate Jul 2014 #98
Trade, as in the TPP, trumps all issues. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #140
Gosh, you're right. Anyway, it's all the same thing. Flip a coin. There's no difference. cheapdate Jul 2014 #177
Enemy or not, just imagine if there were no Clintons, if we had an open field. NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #80
K&R a thousand times. JDPriestly Jul 2014 #126
This should have hundreds of recommendations. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #127
Manny that person is not - TBF Jul 2014 #153
How can a person who fights for the TPP ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #156
+10 (nt) PosterChild Jul 2014 #160
Right after he's done renegotiating NAFTA, you mean? He's got a track record of fibbing here. Romulox Jul 2014 #161
Because he has absolutely had nothing else to do. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #162
NAFTA is generally credited with destroying more than a half-million American jobs MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #169
I get it... PosterChild Jul 2014 #159
I notice the pro-TPP arguments are fewer and far-between of late...... marmar Jul 2014 #163
If trade is so bad, we should easily Progressive dog Jul 2014 #164
In your opinion, which "free" trade agreement of the past 25 years MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #167
I'm just pointing out where Democratic Progressive dog Jul 2014 #173
Can you point to where Obama ran on a platform of new "free" trade agreements? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #182
That is silly, Progressive dog Jul 2014 #195
2012 was a little late - we were stuck with Obama MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #196
If you are so set against trade agreements, Progressive dog Jul 2014 #199
They are not. NealK Jul 2014 #168
There is *nothing* good that will come out of this trade agreement. And the secrecy proves it. (nt) w4rma Jul 2014 #170
You know what's weird about this, Manny? davidthegnome Jul 2014 #172
yes, we need a Snowden-type leak of the TPP grasswire Jul 2014 #179
Only if you believe the people who say "person" fights with TPP and take their word for it... uponit7771 Jul 2014 #174
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