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freshwest

(53,661 posts)
50. Wow! 'Put all freedom of expression on equal footing' was my first thought this morning!
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 11:18 AM
Jul 2014

Within hours after the Boston buffer law was ruled unConstitutional - which I will now refer to as unKochstitutional - the RCC schools bused in 250 students to fill the sidewalks around the clinic as a flash mob.

They paid for the buses, the gas and drivers, but vulnerable families don't have that kind of wealth or would not be a clinic where they are available for target shooting. It's a matter of wealth going after the weak to break their spirits.

'The meek shall inherit the Earth,' yet clearly the churches aren't in that 'flock of sheep' no matter how loudly they proclaim to be. If 'The battle is in spiritual high places' they could go home to their 'prayer closets' and wait for a miracle. But 'They love to pray in public and receive the praise of men.'

They have forgotten what Americans believed, that their right to wave their fists end where our faces begin. I know why the Founders were Deists:

Nature's God: The Heretical Origins of the American Republic




Natural law was the basis for the core ideas of the Revolution: People are free and equal in nature. Government is a compact between human beings, not something handed down from above.

Most important, we must always have the liberty of thought to examine received wisdom, evaluate its utility, and change our ideas — and our institutions.


That embodies so much of what I hold to be true, I am in awe of those words. Got a chuckle at this part at the review by the LATimes:

"Jefferson's vision for the future of American religion… featured nothing but Unitarian churches from sea to shining sea."

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-ca-jc-matthew-stewart-20140629-story.html

And from the first Amazon review, but all of them are very good:

“Splendid… imaginative but never fanciful, even at its most surprising. What lends Nature’s God a good deal of its verve is Matthew Stewart’s unabashed attachment not only to the revolutionaries as they really were but to the skeptical rationalism they embodied. This is partisan scholarship as it should be written, and much needed service to the public.” (Alan Ryan, author of The Making of Modern Liberalism)

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-God-Heretical-American-Republic/dp/0393064549/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1404062887&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Nature%27s+God%3A+The+Heretical+Origins+of+the+American+Republic

A better America than one divided into cults with fanatical adherents that search for enemies. Closer to what I grew up with when 'the wall of separation between church and state' was respected both ways. Our problem is that it is no longer accepted, and rightwing interpretations are falsehoods.

to cbayer who posted the LATimes review:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=137537

Although who will end their tax exemption now? Their GOP Libertarian offspring (sounds like an oxymoron, but deeds mean much more than words) have weakened secular government with corporatism, going directly in line with Mussolini's own description of the religious part of fascism. WW2 never ended, obviously:

"The really dangerous American fascist... is the man who wants to do in the United States in an American way what Hitler did in Germany in a Prussian way. The American fascist would prefer not to use violence.

His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power...

They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution. They demand free enterprise, but are the spokesmen for monopoly and vested interest.

Their final objective, toward which all their deceit is directed, is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection."

~ U.S. Vice President Henry A. Wallace, quoted in the New York Times, April 9, 1944

Should other tax exempt organizations lose tax exempt status as well? el_bryanto Jul 2014 #1
Which other organizations are you thinking of? Churches seem to me to often clearly act as legal Squinch Jul 2014 #2
Well like PETA for example, or Greenpeace. The Sierra club. nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #4
I see your point. But I was raised in the Catholic Church, and the wealth and property and Squinch Jul 2014 #7
That could work. I could see supporting that. nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #8
Support homegirl Jul 2014 #33
Hmmmm - no. Thanks for your suggestion though. el_bryanto Jul 2014 #35
this is the first sane idea i have seen on this topic ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2014 #11
So, only small organization can avoid the tax? joeglow3 Jul 2014 #14
Not necessarily small. An organization that brings in a heap more than some defined set of Squinch Jul 2014 #25
Most non-profits generate and spend large amounts of cash joeglow3 Jul 2014 #86
But those are all costs of doing business. Those aren't purchases of new property or investments Squinch Jul 2014 #93
I would go with all churches losing tax exempt status. LiberalFighter Jul 2014 #62
Or those charities act are kept as parts of the original organization and they act as deductions Squinch Jul 2014 #94
The charitable org would alreay be utilizing the deductions LiberalFighter Jul 2014 #111
Like this a lot. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #107
And, as with everyone else, let their charitable activities act as deductions. Squinch Jul 2014 #108
I made that connection. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #109
I get it. I have family members who were Squinch Jul 2014 #110
No. Those aren't religious organizations. Orrex Jul 2014 #16
So you would favor ending the tax exempt status of all churchs, regardless of whether they el_bryanto Jul 2014 #17
Yes, I would end the tax exempt status of all churches. Orrex Jul 2014 #19
OK - well I can't support that, unless you are going to end all non-profit organizations as well. el_bryanto Jul 2014 #22
Your support. MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #65
Well I suppose it isn't. We are still decades away from ending the tax-exempt status of churches el_bryanto Jul 2014 #68
I propose ending the tax-exempt status of churches on religious grounds Orrex Jul 2014 #80
I don't think I would support it in any case el_bryanto Jul 2014 #82
For me, the religious component is central Orrex Jul 2014 #85
If homegirl Jul 2014 #36
Companies pay taxes on income not on profit, I believe el_bryanto Jul 2014 #41
Yes they "pay" tax on taxable income LiberalFighter Jul 2014 #69
They're not violating the separation of church and state MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #31
There are a number of different arguments for why you should end the tax exempt status of religion el_bryanto Jul 2014 #34
You assume much MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #37
OK - So you are opposed to ending the tax-exempt status for churches? Or in favor of it? nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #38
Did you even read my comment? MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #40
Yes I did el_bryanto Jul 2014 #42
It wasn't clear? MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #43
You know when I find that people haven't understood what I have written and ask clarifying questions el_bryanto Jul 2014 #45
I deal with a lot of trolls on another forum MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #46
Not sure about the Sierra club arikara Jul 2014 #100
If they stick their noses into political matters, yes. hobbit709 Jul 2014 #3
If a religion doesn't stick it's nose into political matters it should keep it's tax-exempt status el_bryanto Jul 2014 #6
Yes!-nt Anansi1171 Jul 2014 #10
NO Brainstormy Jul 2014 #26
Absolutely not! LiberalFighter Jul 2014 #71
What if a church runs a successful soup kitchen? nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #72
It should be a separate entity LiberalFighter Jul 2014 #74
And if they don't want to separate the two, than they pay taxes on both, I take it? nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #75
Yes! LiberalFighter Jul 2014 #77
OK fair enough el_bryanto Jul 2014 #78
The increase in atheists and those not church goers should make an impact. LiberalFighter Jul 2014 #84
what about where the two meet? ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2014 #12
There's taking a moral stance and taking a political stance. Not always the same thing. el_bryanto Jul 2014 #18
but saying they're right or wrong IS considered a political position ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2014 #20
Only if you believe that a church knows the best political solution to a problem el_bryanto Jul 2014 #21
i would wager most IN the church would say they have the correct solution ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2014 #24
Do they have the correct solution for what people should do? or do they the have the correct el_bryanto Jul 2014 #27
indeed... ProdigalJunkMail Jul 2014 #28
Where then is the relevant and precise division between political and religious matters? LanternWaste Jul 2014 #73
So, when YarnAddict Jul 2014 #83
Tax exempt status sulphurdunn Jul 2014 #23
Actually, that sounds like the best way to go about it. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #54
Here is my problem ... aggiesal Jul 2014 #76
They can already do this dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #99
I completely agree with your last statement ... aggiesal Jul 2014 #101
Well, my point was dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #103
I understand ... aggiesal Jul 2014 #104
Yes, I agree - eom dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #105
The Yearly Cost of Religious Tax Exemptions: $71,000,000,000 Generic Other Jul 2014 #87
$71 billion dollars? could you please provide a citation? nt el_bryanto Jul 2014 #88
Sorry, I was afraid of being alerted on for citing the WashPo Generic Other Jul 2014 #91
Thanks, excellent info dreamnightwind Jul 2014 #98
Clearly the trumped-up IRS scandal canard shows that 501(4) shows that status should be... Anansi1171 Jul 2014 #5
DU rec... SidDithers Jul 2014 #9
Obviously sheep farming and fleecing is a for profit enterprise! on point Jul 2014 #13
Indeed. I have yet to read Gen. Smedly Butlers follow up- Anansi1171 Jul 2014 #15
"Tax Exempt Status" or "Tax Deductible Status" HenryWallace Jul 2014 #29
Not ALL churches become involved in politics. ColesCountyDem Jul 2014 #30
They have to spend a certain percent charity work. They get around that will missions to alfredo Jul 2014 #32
START BY ENDING THE OVER $1.5 TRILLION PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTION FOR ALL........... zwyziec Jul 2014 #39
This is the place to start. DURHAM D Jul 2014 #48
Wow. Just wow!-nt Anansi1171 Jul 2014 #53
Duke? n/t aggiesal Jul 2014 #81
^^^THIS^^^ Tom Ripley Jul 2014 #79
Sorry but I can't agree. I think non-profits including houses of worship should have tax exempt hrmjustin Jul 2014 #44
I agree with you in principle. Moostache Jul 2014 #49
Mega Churches do deserve more scrutiny. I heard you actually have to buy a ticket to get into some hrmjustin Jul 2014 #51
They should be no different than other non-profits Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2014 #55
I think most houses of worship provide more than 20,000 dollars a year in services. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #58
Quite likely... Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2014 #63
Most churches in this nation provide services to the poor. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #70
I agree.. Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2014 #89
That is really shocking...they charge admission to that crap?!?!?!?!? Moostache Jul 2014 #57
Yes they bring in so much money a Sunday that they do need more scrutiny. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #59
Jesus wept. (nt) Moostache Jul 2014 #60
Indeed! hrmjustin Jul 2014 #61
If done, all those churches will disappear, and the oligarchs would never allow that. nt valerief Jul 2014 #47
Wow! 'Put all freedom of expression on equal footing' was my first thought this morning! freshwest Jul 2014 #50
No way, Churches are way too powerful and would dominate in politics if they were not tax exempt. dilby Jul 2014 #52
That's an interesting take on the subject Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2014 #56
My point exactly MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #66
Huh never thought of it that way. Initech Jul 2014 #90
Absolutely not LittleBlue Jul 2014 #64
Data? Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2014 #92
Looks like The Law is throwing their hat in the ring MynameisBlarney Jul 2014 #67
Making this part of the Democratic party platform would destroy the party onenote Jul 2014 #95
Asking churches to pay tax when they run golf courses, hotels and use Anansi1171 Jul 2014 #96
Churches should follow the same rules and oversight of other non-profits... Humanist_Activist Jul 2014 #97
...and corporations.... grahamhgreen Jul 2014 #102
Wouldn't they simply set themselves up as non-profits? nt. NCTraveler Jul 2014 #106
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»End the Tax Exempt Status...»Reply #50