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In reply to the discussion: Thank you, Edward Snowden, for so clearly allowing.. [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)3. "Snowden ought to be embarrassed for helping to catapult it into the dialogue."
More: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024833461
In his op-ed, Snowden tries to hype the importance of his question by linking to a Daily Beast piece that calls him out for being a tool. From his op-ed:
<...>
The investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov, perhaps the single most prominent critic of Russia's surveillance apparatus (and someone who has repeatedly criticised me in the past year), described my question as "extremely important for Russia". It could, he said, "lift a de facto ban on public conversations about state eavesdropping."
The investigative journalist Andrei Soldatov, perhaps the single most prominent critic of Russia's surveillance apparatus (and someone who has repeatedly criticised me in the past year), described my question as "extremely important for Russia". It could, he said, "lift a de facto ban on public conversations about state eavesdropping."
From the piece linked to in that paragaph:
I think it was ridiculous, says Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russias security services who is also a professor at New York University. Andrei Soldatov, a Russian journalist who has broken major stories on the Russian intelligence service, the FSB, and is a Daily Beast contributor, was only slightly more charitable. Putin never directly lies, he just tells half truths and his answer was a half truth, he said. In terms of what is going on inside the country, he was not correct. We have all signs of mass surveillance. My view is Russian surveillance is much more intrusive than what you have in the United States.
<...>
Galeotti says he found the display of Snowdens question for Putin on eavesdropping to be depressing. I believed he was an honest man who made some stupid choices, says Galeotti. But in this case he was doing what was in his handlers interests.
We have to think of two Snowdens, Galeotti tells The Daily Beast. There was the original whistleblower who thought he was doing something good for the world. Now there is the Snowdento put it crasslywho is bought and paid for entirely by the Russians. The Russians are not altruistic, if they are protecting him they are doing so because there are things he can do to repay them.
<...>
Soldatov said Snowdens question could lift a de facto ban in Russia on public conversations about the states eavesdropping. Before this question both Snowden and Greenwald refused to talk about surveillance in Russia, he said. Now we can ask Greenwald about this. Now we can start the debate. This is extremely important for Russia. I suspect Kremlin propaganda wanted to play Snowden, nevertheless this was a positive thing because it helps us to start the debate about the mass surveillance in Russia.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/17/sorry-snowden-putin-lied-to-you-about-his-surveillance-state-and-made-you-a-pawn-of-it.htm
<...>
Galeotti says he found the display of Snowdens question for Putin on eavesdropping to be depressing. I believed he was an honest man who made some stupid choices, says Galeotti. But in this case he was doing what was in his handlers interests.
We have to think of two Snowdens, Galeotti tells The Daily Beast. There was the original whistleblower who thought he was doing something good for the world. Now there is the Snowdento put it crasslywho is bought and paid for entirely by the Russians. The Russians are not altruistic, if they are protecting him they are doing so because there are things he can do to repay them.
<...>
Soldatov said Snowdens question could lift a de facto ban in Russia on public conversations about the states eavesdropping. Before this question both Snowden and Greenwald refused to talk about surveillance in Russia, he said. Now we can ask Greenwald about this. Now we can start the debate. This is extremely important for Russia. I suspect Kremlin propaganda wanted to play Snowden, nevertheless this was a positive thing because it helps us to start the debate about the mass surveillance in Russia.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/17/sorry-snowden-putin-lied-to-you-about-his-surveillance-state-and-made-you-a-pawn-of-it.htm
Soldatov was being generous. He basically said, yeah, Snowden was used, but people are talking about what happened.
The fact is that nothing came out of this charade except a debate about Putin's and Snowden's character.
A more direct question (which likely couldn't happen) mentioning a specific program or incident would have sparked a debate inside Russia. As it stands, even Soldatov admits there is no debate in Russian. I could understand why, as a journalist, he would want to use this as an opportunity to spark a debate. A staged event and a lame-ass question isn't going to do it, and neither is Snowden's op-ed, which is just another lame attempt to cover his ass after a humiliating event.
In summary: Putin's show promoted his propaganda to its intended audience, Russians. Snowden's op-ed attempts to spin it to the rest of the world.
Greenwald got his ass handed to him on Twitter from trying to spin this embarrassing episode away.
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no it would just make you ignorant of what I have written which is better than being disingenuous
arely staircase
Apr 2014
#31
Maybe your constant obsession with Snowden with little to say about the Bush appointed crooks
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#115
Exactly. What Snowden did and why is one issue and what our government is doing
merrily
Apr 2014
#137
Your hatred is what is sad. You are directing it at the wrong people. But it's easier for you
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#41
So is there more than two sided in a war? Do you choose the side of the 1%? I guess some might
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#47
I always find it sadly hilarious that those who represent about 11% of the population...
ConservativeDemocrat
Apr 2014
#62
As I would expect from a conservative, jibberish. You cant tell us what your principles are
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#71
I've repeated my principals many times on this site; you can look them up
ConservativeDemocrat
Apr 2014
#96
I agree with that. But I would say your side is even less than 11% when it comes to people's
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#116
In my years on this site, that is probably the most ridiculous claim and request I've ever seen.....
George II
Apr 2014
#81
You can answer that question for yourself, but only if you are willing to engage
struggle4progress
Apr 2014
#98
There is one opinion expressed, the other opinion expressed, and lots of "sides" in between.
George II
Apr 2014
#136
You are correct, some are so obsessed with Snowden they even worry about his personal relationships
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#56
Prosense's response was perfectly brilliant and summed up the most glaring differences between the
Number23
Apr 2014
#111
The Disaffected White Hero falls hard..and we've seen it before....a particular
msanthrope
Apr 2014
#124
So is Putin the Goat and Snowden the Sheep? Oh yeah.. "it's not about him".. except Eddie made
Cha
Apr 2014
#90
if by calling out you mean pitching him predetermined softball question, sure nt
arely staircase
Apr 2014
#72
"Snowden ought to be embarrassed for helping to catapult it into the dialogue."
ProSense
Apr 2014
#3
Did you know that the FFs included 'jury nullification' as a tool in our judicial system
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#117
You are on the wrong side of this class war. You side with Gen Clapper and the authoritarians.
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#42
With Gen Clapper on your side how can you be wrong. You are choosing the side of
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#45
They are authoritarians. They worship the comfort that big daddy Gen Clapper gives them.
rhett o rick
Apr 2014
#79
The Left is always on the Right Side of history and once again, I am happy to be on that side.
sabrina 1
Apr 2014
#89
If Snowden is captured by today's DOJ, he'll have a lot to do with torture
MannyGoldstein
Apr 2014
#139
The NSA is currently subverting the Constitution and we must fight against it.
NCTraveler
Apr 2014
#145
Snowden's question and op-ed were attempts to whitewash Russian spying by equating it to the NSA.
ProSense
Apr 2014
#146
Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that that is 100% true, it has nothing to
merrily
Apr 2014
#152
But..but..Snowden has done so much harm to America....it's just nobody can tell us what it is.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Apr 2014
#167