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Cha

(295,899 posts)
189. It's very CLEAR and anyone who doesn't see that is trying to
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 04:41 AM
Mar 2014

deflect from the question just like the OP is doing with the "idolize" attack. Classic greenwald.. want to shut down discussion? Attack and deflect. Double down and never admit you're wrong.. it takes someone like the President to admit when they're wrong.

Hey... notice I didn't say "democratic" president.

The question is this..

"Because my impression is that DU hasn't been discussing "questioning" vs "idolizing." We're been discussing "insulting" vs "not insulting". So I ask: Is it obligatory that the president be rhetorically shat upon?" Skinner

There's a huge space between seeing a POTUS as a respectable figure who can be criticized > KittyWampus Mar 2014 #1
Of course your "respect for the office" argument falls apart with a republican president whatchamacallit Mar 2014 #4
I didn't say "respect for the office". I intentionally said respect for a President of the USA who KittyWampus Mar 2014 #9
So you always followed that criteria with Bush? whatchamacallit Mar 2014 #12
Nope, I admit to be hypocritical at times. That's pretty human isn't it? KittyWampus Mar 2014 #14
Thanks for a good (honest) answer! whatchamacallit Mar 2014 #17
So you're saying that Obama = Bush? nt jazzimov Mar 2014 #21
Nice try lol whatchamacallit Mar 2014 #23
That's got to be the one of the weakest, most pathetic, and, LWolf Mar 2014 #116
Pathetic. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #194
... Phlem Mar 2014 #248
Why should we care ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #79
That's an excellent question... greatauntoftriplets Mar 2014 #81
Folks keep asking and nobody keeps answering Number23 Mar 2014 #99
I soooooo ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #158
Are you going to go all Odyssey on me?? Number23 Mar 2014 #181
Ha! nt ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #226
There is no objective reason to care about anything. ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #160
We shouldn't and I don't. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #162
What fucking crap whatchamacallit Mar 2014 #166
I was referring to a hit and run poster. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #168
Ah... sorry then n/t whatchamacallit Mar 2014 #170
Wait-- you're still insisting that "used car salesman" is a racist term? /nt Marr Mar 2014 #216
We should care about the level of political discourse, which apparently is the topic here. Or is it sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #165
I'm talking about those here ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #211
who gives a shit about Bush , this is a Dem site JI7 Mar 2014 #95
Maybe the millions of innocent victims he created many of whom are still trying to get sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #247
Well, I've pretty much followed your advice when criticizing policies of not just this president but sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #26
Generally, I respect you and your posts. Have a good weekend Sabrina! KittyWampus Mar 2014 #32
Thank you KittyWampus, you too! sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #36
It's nice to see some civility. It's too bad that everyone with policy disagreements could not get totodeinhere Mar 2014 #215
Plus un brazilion. n/t me b zola Mar 2014 #265
The fan club tend to lash out against the thoughtful critiques Doctor_J Mar 2014 #120
went to University? POsphere Mar 2014 #201
i have no "respect for the office." tomp Mar 2014 #196
Then you have given more weight to the negatives, which shows bias. randome Mar 2014 #197
it's not as simple as that. tomp Mar 2014 #198
Part of the problem is that Bush left such a rancid stench on the office that totodeinhere Mar 2014 #218
Your point is well made. randome Mar 2014 #228
I'm with you on that. And I fail to see how the phrase is any different from "respect the badge"... Marr Mar 2014 #219
Exactly whatchamacallit Mar 2014 #224
But they are salesmen DerekG Mar 2014 #10
They are executives. Marketing is done by subordinates. Can they do much to rally people KittyWampus Mar 2014 #16
How can you respect an executive that carries the wrong message, shaped by his marketeers? MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #87
That statement is could be a disortion , exaggeration and a lie, Derek. lumpy Mar 2014 #43
"salesman"? really? Now the Piece of shit used car salesman is reduced to "salesman"? I don't Cha Mar 2014 #44
Well, yes Cha - salesman Scootaloo Mar 2014 #59
No.. don't see this president that way. bush was the fucking decider and Cha Mar 2014 #63
Richard Neustadt argued that the power of Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #69
Sorry Cha, that's just how it works Scootaloo Mar 2014 #85
I know how it works.. you really don't need to welcome me to politics. Cha Mar 2014 #90
You sure? Because it looks like you're taking offense at reality Scootaloo Mar 2014 #246
Are you as amazed as I am Marr Mar 2014 #221
Gee, when FDR referred to a "Day that will live in infamy," no one called him a "piece of shit used MADem Mar 2014 #179
Thank you for the history. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #267
I would think he does 840high Mar 2014 #145
Of course, LWolf Mar 2014 #117
He made two posts. The first one did call the President a 'piece of shit' and a 'used car salesman'. randome Mar 2014 #118
I probably shouldn't have assumed LWolf Mar 2014 #122
What, you can't follow every post in GD? Slacker! randome Mar 2014 #124
Randome is NOT being honest about that. (surprised?) bvar22 Mar 2014 #242
The bias is yours, bvar22. randome Mar 2014 #245
I've driven POS Used Cars most of my life. bvar22 Mar 2014 #249
So, in the term "Millionaire Used Car Salesman" the "Millionaire" bit refers to the CAR, not the MADem Mar 2014 #263
Criticism does no good unless you have an endgame in mind. randome Mar 2014 #2
No, no President deserves the benefit of the doubt. On the contrary, the People deserve the truth. Scuba Mar 2014 #25
Absolutely. 840high Mar 2014 #146
When any elected official is pushing bad policies they do NOT deserve the 'benefit of the doubt'. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #30
I would show you the same benefit of a doubt, Sabrina. randome Mar 2014 #41
we give a president the "benefit of the doubt" when we elect him or her. grasswire Mar 2014 #98
Of course it's not immutable. But keep the bigger picture in view. randome Mar 2014 #104
what DO you do when your daughters deceive or dismay you? nt grasswire Mar 2014 #106
Make them aware that I know it. randome Mar 2014 #112
the Internet actually interferes with any significant protest. grasswire Mar 2014 #119
You're probably right about the Internet. randome Mar 2014 #123
Great reply! nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #68
Do you think that opposing the TPP is tilting at windmills? Do you think we should just rhett o rick Mar 2014 #157
I have never called anyone out for posting about the TPP. Yes, I think it's a legitimate issue. randome Mar 2014 #193
accountability and broken promises DEMAND IT. n/t reddread Mar 2014 #241
No in-between? Wow. JNelson6563 Mar 2014 #3
Could you give the order? DerekG Mar 2014 #6
I believe leadership at that level has to foster some semblance of Stoicism. KittyWampus Mar 2014 #11
That may be true, in times of genuine crisis DerekG Mar 2014 #18
Certain qualities of "leadership" correlate strongly with psychopathic traits. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #84
What I want to see is Presidential candidates injected with truth serum snappyturtle Mar 2014 #72
Or be forced to wear Google Glasses for the duration of their term. randome Mar 2014 #114
Ha! good idea! nt snappyturtle Mar 2014 #115
Probably not. JNelson6563 Mar 2014 #19
For what it's worth, I don't think Obama is malignant like Bush DerekG Mar 2014 #27
Well stated, thanks lumpy Mar 2014 #46
Every person who SEEKS the office knows the awful power that comes with it... cherokeeprogressive Mar 2014 #39
Presidents shouldn't be DEMONIZED, either. BlueCaliDem Mar 2014 #5
Excellent post, Blue. Appreciated. lumpy Mar 2014 #48
+++''Nary a word against Republicans from these same posters...'' Whisp Mar 2014 #56
Strange, that... n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #269
+1 Excellent post OKNancy Mar 2014 #60
Psst. Everybody on DU isn't a Democrat. It's not even required. nt Kahuna Mar 2014 #71
I know. But it *is* required to support Democrats - especially in an election year. BlueCaliDem Mar 2014 #135
Especially a President who's standing on the front lines between us and Cha Mar 2014 #74
Righteous post. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #270
Exactly. People here hide their demonization as fair criticism. That's the problem. berni_mccoy Mar 2014 #75
And "fair criticism" isn't juvenile name calling! greatauntoftriplets Mar 2014 #82
Exactly. eom BlueCaliDem Mar 2014 #136
Exactly and there are some with nothing but criticism treestar Mar 2014 #230
Whoops Doctor_J Mar 2014 #121
Bullshit. Obama gets criticized every day by people using lies lovingly crafted by Republicans. baldguy Mar 2014 #132
Whoops again Doctor_J Mar 2014 #147
Again, I say BULLSHIT. baldguy Mar 2014 #190
+1 Jamaal510 Mar 2014 #163
So, you never demonized Bush? rusty fender Mar 2014 #176
Don't be silly. BlueCaliDem Mar 2014 #256
That sure is a high horse rusty fender Mar 2014 #266
Talk about a high horse. Yours is *staggering*. BlueCaliDem Apr 2014 #281
I agree with you about Bush/Cheney rusty fender Apr 2014 #282
Then you misunderstood my post, and you don't understand the concept of BlueCaliDem Apr 2014 #283
LOLOLOL! rusty fender Apr 2014 #284
That's the reaction I had when I read the kumbaya part of your post. BlueCaliDem Apr 2014 #285
We take ourselves too seriously, sometimes... rusty fender Apr 2014 #286
Did you demonize Bush at all? Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #233
Well said and thank you. More education, less emoting. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #268
Goodluck with that, you just missed the liberal witchhunt. Rex Mar 2014 #7
There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. Lord Acton Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #8
Lord Acton was somewhat of an ass. lumpy Mar 2014 #52
So, you think that presidents should be sanctified when they take office? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #53
His reputation lumpy Mar 2014 #61
Which has what to do with his comment? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #62
Just an observation that some times an ass can say something a lot of humans can agree upon. lumpy Mar 2014 #64
Everyone welcomes constructive criticism frazzled Mar 2014 #13
+1 treestar Mar 2014 #54
+1 one_voice Mar 2014 #97
Perfect post. It has always tickled me to no end that the ones throwing "lockstepper" and Number23 Mar 2014 #100
+1 nt MADem Mar 2014 #264
So you're saying all presidents are psychopaths. Avalux Mar 2014 #15
They possess qualities common to psychopaths, though not necessarily as acute DerekG Mar 2014 #24
And the current Prez doesn't exhibit any of those qualities. JaneyVee Mar 2014 #29
I find the current President infinitely more admirable than his most unfair critics here BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #31
Most people possess & exhibit a propensity for lying, and a bolstered sense of self and, certainly, lumpy Mar 2014 #57
That's borderline insane treestar Mar 2014 #231
Pretty much, yeah. DeSwiss Mar 2014 #188
and you should always beat animals and children whistler162 Mar 2014 #20
Wait. What. Did somebody say we should beat the president? yardwork Mar 2014 #206
The candidates need to be confronted and questioned and challenged. oldandhappy Mar 2014 #22
Are those the only 2 options you're giving us? JaneyVee Mar 2014 #28
Reccing for the subject line. woo me with science Mar 2014 #33
There is a big difference Andy823 Mar 2014 #34
I think there should be a bipartisan effort to strengthen the legitimacy of the office myself. GiveMeMorePIE Mar 2014 #35
It was Bush that destroyed the legitimacy of the office and the absolution of Bush Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #40
Presidents' actions or lack thereof are certainly open for either criticism or praise, imo... Spazito Mar 2014 #37
Many folks require a cult of personality to believe in 1000words Mar 2014 #38
DURec. bvar22 Mar 2014 #42
No one here has announced there should be no criticism of the Prez or stand by him right or wrong. lumpy Mar 2014 #65
Many here believe that "they" and ONLY "they" can draw the line between... bvar22 Mar 2014 #78
It doesn't take much brain power to figure out what is criticism and what is bashing. lumpy Mar 2014 #111
for YOURSELF... bvar22 Mar 2014 #130
Skinner has made it simple for you ucrdem Mar 2014 #133
But YOU are the one WHINING, bvar22 Mar 2014 #142
I'm afraid you're very mistaken. ucrdem Mar 2014 #143
YOU have made it an issue in THIS thread, bvar22 Mar 2014 #150
What on earth. Pornography? You friend are confused. nt ucrdem Mar 2014 #151
You really have to pay closer attention. bvar22 Mar 2014 #154
Off the rails. Buh bye. nt ucrdem Mar 2014 #155
Alert FAIL! bvar22 Mar 2014 #272
It doesn't take superhuman powers to divine what is criticism and what is bashing. lumpy Mar 2014 #134
Nobody's fucking "idolizing".. and this is where the communication breaks down. You cover up the Cha Mar 2014 #45
Mea Culpa. bvar22 Mar 2014 #125
People would like to think that politicians are "leaders" rather than public servants. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #47
Wrong on Carter mrchips Mar 2014 #49
Ahem. Carter initiated the policy of arming Afghanis, truebluegreen Mar 2014 #186
Lovely revisionism but... mrchips Mar 2014 #207
This will be news to Brzezinski. truebluegreen Mar 2014 #210
Carter Boycotted Olympics mrchips Mar 2014 #213
My point was exactly what I said: truebluegreen Mar 2014 #217
Feel Better? mrchips Mar 2014 #222
Uh-huh. truebluegreen Mar 2014 #238
You began mrchips Mar 2014 #243
Thanks for correcting that. I have gotten to the point I don't bother. Google would prove most freshwest Mar 2014 #271
Sometimes I think there is a strong corrolation between partisanship and authoritarianism. nt rrneck Mar 2014 #50
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #51
It is always necessary to be civil if you want to be heard. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #55
Oh, shut the #@!$ up, you Obama-worshiping cretin! randome Mar 2014 #91
Questioned and Confronted by whom? Not in person OKNancy Mar 2014 #58
Hear hear lumpy Mar 2014 #70
yeah, but i think the intent is to turn off people to OBama and other Dems JI7 Mar 2014 #96
this new and oft-mentioned suspicion among Obama supporters... grasswire Mar 2014 #129
ITA JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #66
Questioned and confronted LostOne4Ever Mar 2014 #67
Presidents should be questioned and confronted. Iggo Mar 2014 #73
In my very humble opinion... N_E_1 for Tennis Mar 2014 #76
we can all see who the POS is, come on now stg81 Mar 2014 #77
Should presidents be rhetorically shat upon? Skinner Mar 2014 #80
If he's a Republican, apparently. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #86
But ProSense Mar 2014 #89
I like that: Jamaal510 Mar 2014 #169
No! sheshe2 Mar 2014 #175
Must protect bush-cheney's sensibilities.. Cha Mar 2014 #184
who gives a shit how Republicans are treated, this is not a republican site JI7 Mar 2014 #94
Skinner does apparently Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #141
he has never criticized anyone for going after Bush and other Republicans JI7 Mar 2014 #159
Direct quote: Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #164
it's very clear based on him never objecting to attacks on republicans and this being DEMOCRATIC JI7 Mar 2014 #167
Except he just did object to attacks on Republicans, by implication. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #171
no it's not , look at the board DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND , you have to consider the context of where JI7 Mar 2014 #172
It's very CLEAR and anyone who doesn't see that is trying to Cha Mar 2014 #189
I'm using "should" because that's the word the OP used. Skinner Mar 2014 #195
+1000 OKNancy Mar 2014 #199
Right then. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #200
You're changing the subject. Skinner Mar 2014 #209
Maybe Tourette Syndrome is also under-reported? randome Mar 2014 #212
No, I'm not actually changing the subject. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #214
Is it really so difficult to just give a straight "no" answer? Skinner Mar 2014 #225
Excellent way to completely miss the relevant context, there. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #239
I have run across the idea that treestar Mar 2014 #237
So you've never 840high Mar 2014 #148
+1 I asked the same nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #107
I don't care for the crude insults Skittles Mar 2014 #103
I will ask again, are you intending to extend this courtesy to all Presidents nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #108
Then I respectfully suggest you find another forum. randome Mar 2014 #110
Lt Awol was regularly shat upon by DU during his tenure truebrit71 Mar 2014 #113
What a ProSense Mar 2014 #126
Really! greatauntoftriplets Mar 2014 #127
Interesting that, huh? But we have some here who freely admit they are former GOP but always post freshwest Mar 2014 #187
You do realize that this is Democratic Underground? sheshe2 Mar 2014 #174
the person was also angry about the trip to China by Michelle Obama JI7 Mar 2014 #191
I was angry? Really? truebrit71 Mar 2014 #204
I was looking for some information on her trip there... And one of the first search resutls was a freshwest Mar 2014 #273
Do you have reading comprehension issues? Seriously. truebrit71 Mar 2014 #203
Thank you for the question, Skinner. The question that's getting a thousand Cha Mar 2014 #192
These are ProSense Mar 2014 #83
Yes, the executive office connects with the message and leads as a result... MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #88
When I hear the attackers of the president come up with 1 good idea, I might listen to them Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #92
Well here is one that I knew was going to be a problem nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #128
And it is proving to be a problem. Time will tell whether the problem will be solved. lumpy Mar 2014 #137
As I said, Leader Pelosi and President Obama did not fight for that nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #144
+1 most of them are just not really good constructive criticism treestar Mar 2014 #235
I agree. Out of context. Plus the whiners have 0 ideas. I've yet to hear one. They have none. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #250
Doesn't that go with all world leaders? Or Executives in general? fujiyama Mar 2014 #93
no shit Skittles Mar 2014 #101
"the Tiger Beat fan club is sickening" ProSense Mar 2014 #105
Indeed it is.. truebrit71 Mar 2014 #140
Yeah and they love it. I guess the next time I lose a jury decision Rex Mar 2014 #149
Aw f 'em Skittles Mar 2014 #152
No doubt. Rex Mar 2014 #153
+1 Jgarrick Mar 2014 #102
Well...duh. Texasgal Mar 2014 #109
I'd like to see the FUD peddlers questioned and confronted. ucrdem Mar 2014 #131
Because we are not a monolith seveneyes Mar 2014 #138
A good question lumpy Mar 2014 #139
Question... fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #173
DAMN right and WELL said! Full marks for you, go to the head of the class!!!!! nt MADem Mar 2014 #180
Nailed it. n/t freshwest Apr 2014 #274
This level of distrust and cynicism goes far beyond what's healthy cheapdate Mar 2014 #156
Yes, and it's a recipe for apathy leading to very bad results. n/t freshwest Apr 2014 #275
I haven't made a formal study of the question, cheapdate Apr 2014 #277
CP posted this cartoon of why it's necessary: freshwest Apr 2014 #278
Aye fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #161
We call this a false dichotomy. AceWheeler Mar 2014 #177
Politicians are servants of the people...and anyone who is abusive towards their servants is an ass. MADem Mar 2014 #178
not sure that was the attitude around here 2001-2008 DrDan Mar 2014 #202
I have been here since the first week DU went live, notwithstanding my "new" MADem Mar 2014 #255
well - I have been here since 2001 also DrDan Mar 2014 #257
Come on--this IS a partisan website, after all. You are, since you've been here as long as I have, MADem Mar 2014 #258
it was silly of me to think "abusive, nasty and vitriolic language" applied to DrDan Mar 2014 #259
Well, thanks for missing--quite completely, too--the nuance in my remarks! MADem Mar 2014 #262
No mistreating the 'servants?' fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #253
Did you not even try to read what I said? I had it exactly right. MADem Mar 2014 #254
I’m not going to take responsibility for the actions of others. fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #260
The real boss is the population that shows up at the polls. MADem Mar 2014 #261
someone might chug a fifth and either edorse that, or rail against it. dionysus Mar 2014 #182
You are way too generous. blkmusclmachine Mar 2014 #183
K&R DeSwiss Mar 2014 #185
I think that's what the founders had in mind. yardwork Mar 2014 #205
Leaders and those in positions of power should always be under much more scrutiny. L0oniX Mar 2014 #208
Taught my kids, ALWAYS question authority. marble falls Mar 2014 #220
That's what I tell my daughters, too. randome Mar 2014 #229
Even in simpler matters? treestar Mar 2014 #234
Always question authority. Always truth to power. marble falls Mar 2014 #240
You trust all judges in this country? Wow, do more reading. Maybe questioning a judge should not.... Logical Mar 2014 #252
Don't be talking trash about Jimmy! Zen Democrat Mar 2014 #223
Thank you! n/t freshwest Apr 2014 #276
If I don't criticize, then I must idolize? Is that what you said? JohnnyRingo Mar 2014 #227
I wholeheartedly agree. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #232
"And what sort of person is allowed to be president?" polichick Mar 2014 #236
damned right! n/t wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #244
Wow, this will piss off the Obamabots. n-t Logical Mar 2014 #251
You know what really pisses off "Obamabots"? Right wing trolls. cheapdate Apr 2014 #279
Looks like it worked! Rex Apr 2014 #280
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