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MattSh

(3,714 posts)
Wed Feb 19, 2014, 09:30 AM Feb 2014

What the Mainstream Media isn't telling you about the situation in Kiev. [View all]

As an 8+ year resident of Kiev and living about 1.5 miles from the main EuroMaidan protests, I've seen a lot the last few months that I had never expected to see. A lot of what I'm going to say here is going to be controversial, precisely because of the pseudo-coverage these events received in the USA.

In general, I've always had this idea that if people are out in the streets protesting in large numbers, they have a very good reason to do so. But when these protests started, I was having trouble finding exactly what that very good reason was. I mean, come on, you're protesting the failure to accept a trade agreement that would impose Greek style austerity and devastate numerous domestic industries in the process? Seeing that wasn't all that appealing to many, it morphed into a protest against corruption, which is obvious and rampant here and much more appealing to the general population. But many could not overlook a couple of things. One is the fascists leanings of one of the main groups behind the protests, and that the protests were incredibly well organized and well funded and claiming it all came from ordinary Ukrainians didn't compute. I smelled a rat early on, and so have in general been against these protests, though there have been occasions where they almost won me over, to be followed a day or two later by the street doing something so stupid that I could no longer be on their side.

Let me just link to a couple of articles that I believe describes the complexity of the situation the last few months in Kiev.

Debate: Is Ukraine's Opposition a Democratic Movement or a Force of Right-Wing Extremism?

Now, what was that agreement? It would have been an economic catastrophe for Ukraine. I'm not talking about the intellectuals or the people who are well placed, about ordinary Ukrainians. The Ukrainian economy is on the brink of a meltdown. It needed billions of dollars. What did the European Union offer them? The same austerity policies that are ravaging Europe, and nothing more. $600 million. It needed billions and billions.

There's one other thing. If you read the protocols of the European offer to Ukraine, which has been interpreted in the West as just about civilizational change, escaping Russia, economics, democracy, there is a big clause on military cooperation. In effect, by signing this, Ukraine would have had to abide by NATO's military policies. What would that mean? That would mean drawing a new Cold War line, which used to be in Berlin, right through the heart of Slavic civilization, on Russia's borders. So that's where we're at to now.

One other point: These right-wing people, whom Anton thinks are not significant, all reports, and I don't know when he was in Ukraine, maybe it was long ago and things have gone, but the reports that are coming out of Ukraine are the following. One, the moderates, that's the former heavyweight champion boxer, Vitali Klitschko, and others, have lost control of the street. They've asked the people who have been attacking the police with Molotov cocktails, and to vacate the buildings they've occupied, to stop. And the street will not stop, partly because, I'd say largely because, the street in Kiev is now controlled by these right-wing extremists. And that extremism has spread to western Ukraine, where these people are occupying government buildings. So, in fact, you have a political civil war underway.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/1/30/debate_is_ukraines_opposition_a_democratic

Ukraine and the Rebirth of Fascism in Europe

For its part, the United States has strongly come down on the side of the opposition, regardless of its political character. In early December, members of the US ruling establishment such as John McCain and Victoria Nuland were seen at Maidan lending their support to the protesters. However, as the character of the opposition has become apparent in recent days, the US and Western ruling class and its media machine have done little to condemn the fascist upsurge. Instead, their representatives have met with representatives of Right Sector and deemed them to be "no threat." In other words, the US and its allies have given their tacit approval for the continuation and proliferation of the violence in the name of their ultimate goal: regime change.

In an attempt to pry Ukraine out of the Russian sphere of influence, the US-EU-NATO alliance has, not for the first time, allied itself with fascists. Of course, for decades, millions in Latin America were disappeared or murdered by fascist paramilitary forces armed and supported by the United States. The mujahideen of Afghanistan, which later transmogrified into Al Qaeda, also extreme ideological reactionaries, were created and financed by the United States for the purposes of destabilizing Russia. And of course, there is the painful reality of Libya and, most recently Syria, where the United States and its allies finance and support extremist jihadis against a government that has refused to align with the US and Israel. There is a disturbing pattern here that has never been lost on keen political observers: the United States always makes common cause with right wing extremists and fascists for geopolitical gain.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-and-the-rebirth-of-fascism-in-europe/5366852


Ukrainian Left-Wing Activists' Appeal to UN, EU, and USA: Don't Back Civil War & Fascist Coup in Ukraine!

1. The pretext for organizing the Euromaidan in Kiev was the refusal of the Government and the President of Ukraine to sign an Association Agreement with the EU. We draw your attention to the content of this document, for the sake of which the Parliamentary opposition led people to the Maidan. The heart of the Agreement is the complete loss of Ukraine's sovereignty through the transfer to supranational agencies (the Council of Association and the Committee on Trade) of decision-making authority, placing them juridically above the Constitution and laws of Ukraine. It has been unconditionally proven that this contradicts the Declaration on the National Sovereignty of Ukraine, the Constitution of Ukraine, and decisions of the Constitutional Court of Ukraine. It also contradicts the expression of the will of the people of Ukraine in the referenda of March 17 and December 1, 1991.

Implementation of the Association Agreement with the EU would indisputably lead to the destruction of the country's economy, industry, agriculture, service sector, and science.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2014/01/ukrainian-left-wing-activists-appeal-un-eu-and-usa-dont-back-civil-war-fascist-coup-uk#sthash.wVZRxuTe.dpuf


Russia Under Attack

In a number of my articles I have explained that the Soviet Union served as a constraint on US power. The Soviet collapse unleashed the neoconservative drive for US world hegemony. Russia under Putin, China, and Iran are the only constraints on the neoconservative agenda.

Russia’s nuclear missiles and military technology make Russia the strongest military obstacle to US hegemony. To neutralize Russia, Washington broke the Reagan-Gorbachev agreements and expanded NATO into former constituent parts of the Soviet Empire and now intends to bring former constituent parts of Russia herself–Georgia and Ukraine–into NATO. Washington withdrew from the treaty that banned anti-ballistic missiles and has established anti-ballistic missile bases on Russia’s frontier. Washington changed its nuclear war doctrine to permit nuclear first strike.

All of this is aimed at degrading Russia’s deterrent, thereby reducing the ability of Russia to resist Washington’s will.

The Russian government (and also the government of Ukraine) foolishly permitted large numbers of US funded NGOs to operate as Washington’s agents under cover of “human rights organizations,” “building democracy,” etc. The “pussy riot” event was an operation designed to put Putin and Russia in a bad light. (The women were useful dupes.) The Western media attacks on the Sochi Olympics are part of the ridiculing and demonizing of Putin and Russia. Washington is determined that Putin and Russia will not be permitted any appearance of success in any area, whether diplomacy, sports, or human rights.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/14/russia-attack-paul-craig-roberts/

84 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Thanks for the info. octoberlib Feb 2014 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author kag Feb 2014 #13
According to Victoria Nuland, US State Dept MattSh Feb 2014 #21
The oil sheiks are behind the fascist turn to the right across the globe. loudsue Feb 2014 #36
Welcome to the new "Cold War" newthinking Feb 2014 #59
Smells like the BFEE... greytdemocrat Feb 2014 #2
Once McCain got involved I knew something was wrong uponit7771 Feb 2014 #3
"Smirk. Sneer" - Johnny McC (RepugliCrank) Berlum Feb 2014 #4
McCaincer standing next to NeoNazi leader Oleh Tyahnybok kenny blankenship Feb 2014 #32
When I saw that as a news source 2naSalit Feb 2014 #53
Yep, that's always been a dead give away for me as well. n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #37
k&r Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #5
Paul Craig Roberts, co creator of Reanomics and Alex Jones Show guest.... Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #6
had exactly the that impact on me. cali Feb 2014 #14
Agreed. For one, there's an analysis of what joining the EU does to the country, but not a okaawhatever Feb 2014 #43
Paul Craig Roberts writes for Rense and Are_grits_groceries Feb 2014 #7
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Feb 2014 #8
Exactly! Sssh! this is a Democratic site! kenny blankenship Feb 2014 #33
Don't polls show that a plurality of Ukrainians prefer a closer association with the EU rather than pampango Feb 2014 #9
It's about 50/50 MattSh Feb 2014 #15
"A poll conducted October 2-15, 2013 by GfK Ukraine showed three times as many Ukrainians favoring pampango Feb 2014 #24
How about you present the numbers without the spin? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #65
The "3-to-1 slam-dunk" I presented clearly compared those favoring an EU agreement (44%) to those pampango Feb 2014 #66
You're deflecting. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #69
That's your interpretation. I posted the actual poll results which shows that less than 50% support pampango Feb 2014 #72
Same deflection, second time. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #75
Deflection is apparently a two-way street. You're not contradicting anything I posted. pampango Feb 2014 #80
Yes, but at this point it is against the anti-protest law. joshcryer Feb 2014 #56
Paul Craig Roberts is a batshit crazy bigot. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #10
But, clocks! And I rec'd it for the part prior to the Father of Reaganomics there... n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #38
This is pure bullshit. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #11
Quite frankly, if you want to argue against someone who is arguing that a protest is fascist Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #12
With Yanukovych, anything legitimate is suspect. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #16
Of course, they're not exactly MY claims. MattSh Feb 2014 #17
You have to understand I have family members who have been involved in the protests. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #22
Thailand, Venezuela and Ukraine protestors ALL cite "corruption" to overthrow recently elected Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #27
Corruption in the Ukrainian government is very well-documented. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #28
Exactly my point. It is also well documented in Thailand and Venezuela and in Egypt, but the Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #29
Um, it didn't become violent until they passed the anti-protest law. joshcryer Feb 2014 #55
It's documented in the US government too. Tell me a government that doesn't have well documented El_Johns Feb 2014 #47
So? This is true of most governments. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #76
At its head? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #77
Do you read English? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #81
And you clearly are ever so versed in charm and interpersonal skills. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #82
I wrote what I wrote... JackRiddler Feb 2014 #83
You are quite possibly the most insufferable (jerk) I have met in all my years at DU. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #84
Shoot. I can't get it to load. Don't know what's wrong. Is it for subscribers only? n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #40
Should work. Try again. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #68
I smelled a rat when the EU terms came out. Demeter Feb 2014 #18
Thank you for some much needed information and for the other posts on this thread.. mountain grammy Feb 2014 #19
I'm with you, mountain grammy. This situation is incomprehensible. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #26
Thanks for this post. redqueen Feb 2014 #20
+1 JVS Feb 2014 #34
I think that is a very wise way to begin assessing things these days. nt stillwaiting Feb 2014 #45
+1. The only protesters who aren't 1) ignored or 2) framed as lawless malcontents are the ones the El_Johns Feb 2014 #48
Maybe they aren't actually lawless malcontents. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #67
I've already read about this BS PatrynXX Feb 2014 #23
tell this BS to the Baltic peoples. quadrature Feb 2014 #25
And then there is this... Adrahil Feb 2014 #30
Valuable perspective pscot Feb 2014 #31
informative thread. I have another viewpoint to share because I know nothing about this situation. libdem4life Feb 2014 #35
No -- sometimes things get worse. Witness Iraq; witness the mafia state of Kosovo; etc. El_Johns Feb 2014 #50
Indeed. In fact most of the time. I was trying not to be hyperbolic. libdem4life Feb 2014 #73
"Manifest Destiny has been re-directed to the entire globe." factsarenotfair Feb 2014 #51
Thanks for sharing your perspective. MadrasT Feb 2014 #39
Interesting. Thanks. (no text) Quantess Feb 2014 #41
There is a lot of mis information out there... Xolodno Feb 2014 #42
Thank you for the backgrounder. El_Johns Feb 2014 #44
Well done... MysticHuman Feb 2014 #46
Matt I do hope you do not mind I copy paste, for reading at leisure nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #49
I'm not sure I would classify it as a revolution, not in the classical sense... MattSh Feb 2014 #60
Kicked and rec'd Bennyboy Feb 2014 #52
Oh, there's definitely a strong anti-Yanukovich thing going on... MattSh Feb 2014 #61
Excellent work thanks Bennyboy Feb 2014 #62
Thanks for sharing 2naSalit Feb 2014 #54
One thing is missing from this, the truth that Progressive dog Feb 2014 #57
Thank you, another one of our and our Western Imperial Allies' 'proxy wars'. Hillary explained it sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #58
From CNN and please read the comments Bennyboy Feb 2014 #63
You're ignoring the elephant in the room of ethnic Ukranian nationalism. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #64
Yeah, because partition works so well, see Yugoslavia. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #71
People without the proper context are misreading the EU issue. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #70
I think ultimately there is no ONE reason people are getting involved, and Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #74
Thanks for this thread gwheezie Feb 2014 #78
+1 truebrit71 Feb 2014 #79
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