General Discussion

Shankapotomus

(4,840 posts) Fri Jan 3, 2014, 01:25 PM Jan 2014

If you think Feminism is not pro men, [View all]

as well as women, you do not understand Feminism.

And if you think male-bashing and competing over dominance is Feminism, you also do not understand Feminism.

189 replies

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Highlight:

If you think Feminism is not pro men, [View all] Shankapotomus Jan 2014 OP

Kicked & recommended! In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #1

Well-put. Smarmie Doofus Jan 2014 #2

I always liked this quote by Germaine Greer el_bryanto Jan 2014 #3

"The opposite to patriarchy is not matriarchy but fraternity." redqueen Jan 2014 #4

Yes that's the part that stuck with me as well. el_bryanto Jan 2014 #6

"The opposite to patriarchy is not matriarchy but fraternity." Repeat it. Over and Over. Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2014 #7

Amen. cer7711 Jan 2014 #16

Yes. So much. Butterbean Jan 2014 #11

Way to twist the meanings of words. RC Jan 2014 #17

You have fun debating definiions. The rest of us will be over here redqueen Jan 2014 #18

Isn't my idea of Equal Human Right for all, good enough? RC Jan 2014 #22

It's a worthy ideal at the least. But we shouldn't lose sight of where the lines are drawn, which nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #46

Are we all not in this together? Are we not working toward the same goals? RC Jan 2014 #56

I'd like to think we are. And I tend to work off of that assumption, though admittedly not always. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #60

Your second paragraph illuminates the issue very well. nt redqueen Jan 2014 #62

I do not post right wing talking points RC Jan 2014 #107

I wasn't talking about you personally. Just trying to explain what I was getting at. n/t nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #162

It's not nit-picking. This is why. redqueen Jan 2014 #61

I did not say that everyone is equal. Far from it. RC Jan 2014 #125

This sounds more like a justification to be sexist against men davidn3600 Jan 2014 #63

So what's the use of pretending everybody's equal when that is manifestly not the case? nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #64

My version of equality is everyone should be treated the same...period davidn3600 Jan 2014 #65

I think you're using too broad a brush RE: present-day feminism. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #66

"My version of equality is everyone is treated the same way regardless." And do you think that Squinch Jan 2014 #83

I can't agree with your assessment Major Nikon Jan 2014 #69

At the least it would cause people to place more value on the life of the woman involved. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #70

I don't see how Major Nikon Jan 2014 #71

Reproductive rights is a problematic issue to discuss in the context of "equality" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #110

If not "equality" then let's address the issue in terms of women's basic autonomy. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #163

Said Mullahs are both male and female. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #164

I guess the OP was more a response to the knee-jerk contention that feminism is anti-male. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #166

I think that the lessons of feminism; their successes... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #168

I have no argument whatsoever with this post. Constricting gender roles are bad for everybody. nomorenomore08 Jan 2014 #170

I think that it's important for men to reinvent men. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #172

Exactly the same? Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #76

There's certainly room for both discussions Feral Child Jan 2014 #27

Inspiring quote! Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #5

Unfortunately, many will not time the time to let that sink in ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #20

It's one of the reasons conservatives hate feminism... Wounded Bear Jan 2014 #8

That is an excellent quote. cinnabonbon Jan 2014 #13

A silly far-right pipe dream dressed up in left-wing clothes, I think. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #80

I believe that what Ms Greer was talking about was not getting rid of government organizations el_bryanto Jan 2014 #99

eh qazplm Jan 2014 #117

Here's another one by Germaine Greer Major Nikon Jan 2014 #128

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #169

Fire! BlueToTheBone Jan 2014 #161

And that's really all there is to it. RedCappedBandit Jan 2014 #9

Agree. ananda Jan 2014 #10

Exactly Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #12

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #30

So true... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2014 #67

If you don't understand that.. sendero Jan 2014 #14

Sad but true. But there's still many good ones, let's not forget. AverageJoe90 Jan 2014 #15

A swing and a miss ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #23

TBH, in some cases, there are misunderstandings that do occur. AverageJoe90 Jan 2014 #24

Are they thinking/saying ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #28

Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2014 #32

I'd add wryter2000 Jan 2014 #19

The Chalice or the Blade: Choices for our Future, by Riane Eisler Locrian Jan 2014 #21

Such a great book! Squinch Jan 2014 #84

It put a lot of things in perspective... Locrian Jan 2014 #89

I had the same experience with it. It was the book that just shifted my perception Squinch Jan 2014 #90

yep Locrian Jan 2014 #153

A photo from a different thread panader0 Jan 2014 #25

This gives me chills Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #34

Inclusion is the only way to right the wrongs of inequality. RC Jan 2014 #137

Is that why men got the short end of the stick with Obamacare? davidn3600 Jan 2014 #26

Bazinga, right? Feral Child Jan 2014 #29

No, he's part of the Men's Rights crowd nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #39

Ah, another Single-Issue Voter, Feral Child Jan 2014 #72

Deleted by author Feral Child Jan 2014 #73

Nope. He's oppressed by feminists because women no longer pay more than men for insurance because Squinch Jan 2014 #85

Impossible treestar Jan 2014 #33

Of course you ignore the point im making davidn3600 Jan 2014 #35

Don't men benefit from contraception and family planning? treestar Jan 2014 #36

Women are underdog in many areas davidn3600 Jan 2014 #40

Is that true? treestar Jan 2014 #41

Health and Human Services website even has a web page dedicated to it davidn3600 Jan 2014 #42

Cynthia Pearson makes a point treestar Jan 2014 #43

Historically almost all health care research has focused on men. LeftyMom Jan 2014 #47

Yet 9 out of the 10 top diseases kill more men than women davidn3600 Jan 2014 #50

How do you define a "top" disease? For example: "Since 1984, more women than men have died Squinch Jan 2014 #88

Misleading statistic Major Nikon Jan 2014 #147

Excellent link. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #175

Could you provide some kind of details re: your claim about the top diseases? nt redqueen Jan 2014 #121

From the CDC link lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #176

Age adjusted death rate is an important concept to grasp Major Nikon Jan 2014 #181

I'm at a loss as to what "demonstrated need" could possibly mean. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #183

The idea that the ACA is biased against men is what's laughable, and anyone whining to that effect geek tragedy Jan 2014 #38

Not true. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #93

I disagree with that treestar Jan 2014 #95

Certainly biology dictates that men and women have different healthcare needs. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #101

The ACA includes everyone treestar Jan 2014 #108

Men can get PSA cancer screenings lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #113

Somebody call the waaaambulance. Women are paying the same as men., Waaahhh! nt geek tragedy Jan 2014 #37

Do you understand what insurance is? NoOneMan Jan 2014 #49

Im not necessarily against the idea that everyone pays equal premiums davidn3600 Jan 2014 #52

The funny thing is the larger struggle for equality is pitting the 99% against each other here NoOneMan Jan 2014 #54

Yeah but that's a different debate davidn3600 Jan 2014 #59

Here's the irony. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #143

General public interest isn't the topic of this thread. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #96

So, "Recon-by-Fire"? Feral Child Jan 2014 #74

Feminism is a progressive movement Rex Jan 2014 #31

Such a simple idea, DirkGently Jan 2014 #44

I totally agree Bonobo Jan 2014 #45

I think its really important to not judge the feminist movement by what goes on here lately NoOneMan Jan 2014 #48

That is a really important point. Bonobo Jan 2014 #51

Very asute observations by both of you ismnotwasm Jan 2014 #53

Absolutely. Bonobo Jan 2014 #55

Feminism isn't any one thing. Ideally, it's both pro-women and pro-men. Silent3 Jan 2014 #57

Feminism is an "ism". nt rrneck Jan 2014 #58

The only thing that's monolithic about feminism is that it is pro women Major Nikon Jan 2014 #68

Probably more accurate to say Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #77

How are these feminists pro men? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #82

Other than Valerie Solanas Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #86

You answered a different question than the one I asked Major Nikon Jan 2014 #100

. Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #104

I'm not sure I can accept that as a universal application Major Nikon Jan 2014 #126

I changed my opinion Boudica the Lyoness Jan 2014 #75

Then consider the possibility Shankapotomus Jan 2014 #81

I don't expect to change your mind about this opinion, but Squinch Jan 2014 #87

... TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #97

That's nice dear. But I do invite you to take a look. Squinch Jan 2014 #98

I read DU the same as you (but with honesty) TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #102

And I will say the same back to you. Squinch Jan 2014 #103

And I will be confused TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #105

In this conversation between you and me, who approached who? Squinch Jan 2014 #106

It's a shame you see it that way. TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #114

So this adds a little more illustration to my point: Squinch Jan 2014 #119

Yep, finished with you, "dear." TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #122

I've been on 164 juries. LAGC Jan 2014 #109

Could that have happened if there weren't a group, equally as vocal and forceful as HoF, Squinch Jan 2014 #111

Perhaps, but... LAGC Jan 2014 #115

I am a host of HoF and I've been here quite awhile, and I am not a troll. boston bean Jan 2014 #116

If we are going to have a conversation about HoF, let's not be precious. Let's say "HoF." Squinch Jan 2014 #120

One more observation about your post: Squinch Jan 2014 #127

I think Feminism 'is' pro men, polly7 Jan 2014 #78

Please name one movement athena Jan 2014 #129

There's a difference between blame and causation. nt Deep13 Jan 2014 #157

I'm sure that applies to some variants... Lost_Count Jan 2014 #79

Recommended. H2O Man Jan 2014 #91

OH you...sometimes I just want to beat you with a wet Mackeral Drew Richards Jan 2014 #187

"Shaved Fish" H2O Man Jan 2014 #188

Feminism is advocacy for women. Everything else is tactics. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #92

Feminism is advocacy for gender equity by removing historic barriers against women. Gormy Cuss Jan 2014 #112

A "historic barrier" against women is military service, right? lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #118

I've suggested either women ought to register for SS or we shouldn't have it period... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #123

Talk is cheap. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #124

I can see why feminists wouldn't have that as number one priority though treestar Jan 2014 #131

There hasn't been a draft for over 40 years, it's not a policy priority for anyone Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #133

True. And it would put away the perceived unfairness to men treestar Jan 2014 #134

If it's not a #1 feminist priority, then they are not about institutional equality. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #140

The draft has been over for 40 years... Hippo_Tron Jan 2014 #132

It would only be a priority to people motivated by equality. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #138

Because having to register for something that hasn't been used in 40 years KitSileya Jan 2014 #144

I'm saying that if one isn't fighting for equality, they shouldn't clam to be fighters for equality. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #146

I don't agree with you. KitSileya Jan 2014 #150

Alright, fine, feminists don't talk much about the draft. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #158

Since feminism is about advocacy for women, I wouldn't expect them to. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #165

At one point, they did Major Nikon Jan 2014 #184

The draft is only one example...there are many others davidn3600 Jan 2014 #185

All manifestations of the patriarchy that most feminists don't agree with. NuclearDem Jan 2014 #186

Because of gender-specific laws on selective service registration, that's why. Gormy Cuss Jan 2014 #136

"or it's an artifact of the process of bargaining done in order to pass this complex bill" lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #141

As I already wrote, I don't know enough about the history of those ACA provisions to comment Gormy Cuss Jan 2014 #142

Here is the strategic plan for that office Major Nikon Jan 2014 #135

My 'claim' shouldn't be part of a current mission statement for OWH. Gormy Cuss Jan 2014 #139

"No demonstrated public policy need." lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #145

A demonstrated public policy need is more than a single statistic. Gormy Cuss Jan 2014 #149

Apparently not any large collection of comparable ones either. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #177

Life expectancy A Little Weird Jan 2014 #151

If being a man was deterministic for short lifespan... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #173

I don't know A Little Weird Jan 2014 #179

If you want to talk outcomes instead of dollars for your metric that's not a problem Major Nikon Jan 2014 #148

Because those facts alone don't demonstrate a need for a separate office for men. Gormy Cuss Jan 2014 #152

So dying sooner and suffering disparately from treatable diseases is not a demonstrated need Major Nikon Jan 2014 #154

But most research into diseases, and especially into cures for diseases are focused on men KitSileya Jan 2014 #156

The NCI funds breast cancer research at almost twice the rate of any other cancer Major Nikon Jan 2014 #159

The NCI funds yes, but how does that stack up with other funds? KitSileya Jan 2014 #160

I don't know, but you might want to check Major Nikon Jan 2014 #178

I agree TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #94

Feminism relieves both men and women from gender constraints. nt Deep13 Jan 2014 #130

Depends on the brand of feminism. NaturalHigh Jan 2014 #155

You know nothing about Dworkin. redqueen Jan 2014 #167

I realize you think I'm an uneducated neanderthal... NaturalHigh Jan 2014 #171

For example: NaturalHigh Jan 2014 #174

Dworkin describes coitus as an act of coerced violence, which can be reasonably interpreted as rape Major Nikon Jan 2014 #180

It's important to note LadyHawkAZ Jan 2014 #182

Correct! I liken it to the end of slavery, and how it was not just good for the former slaves... slor Jan 2014 #189