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Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
100. It has everything to do with capitalism and nothing to do with automation
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 11:20 AM
Dec 2013

Let's have the section again:

We can no longer trust in the unseen forces and the invisible hand of the market. Growth in justice requires more than economic growth, while presupposing such growth: it requires decisions, programmes, mechanisms and processes specifically geared to a better distribution of income, the creation of sources of employment and an integral promotion of the poor which goes beyond a simple welfare mentality. I am far from proposing an irresponsible populism, but the economy can no longer turn to remedies that are a new poison, such as attempting to increase profits by reducing the work force and thereby adding to the ranks of the excluded.


Now, show me where automation is even implied in that passage.

No, you are apparently deliberately misconstruing what he says. He says that those who believe in the panacea of trickle-down economics express "a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system."

Francis isn't saying that capitalism is inherently bad. What he's saying is that we shouldn't fetishize it. We shouldn't treat it as if it's beyond reproach, something that we can't even dare to change. "We have created new idols. The worship of the ancient golden calf has returned in a new and ruthless guise in the idolatry of money and the dictatorship of an impersonal economy lacking a truly human purpose." He worries about the "interests of a deified market."

BTW, here is part of John Paul II's Centesimus annus, section 42, (italics added):

Returning now to the initial question: can it perhaps be said that, after the failure of Communism, capitalism is the victorious social system, and that capitalism should be the goal of the countries now making efforts to rebuild their economy and society? Is this the model which ought to be proposed to the countries of the Third World which are searching for the path to true economic and civil progress?

The answer is obviously complex. If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”. But if by “capitalism” is meant a system in which freedom in the economic sector is not circumscribed within a strong juridical framework which places it at the service of human freedom in its totality, and which sees it as a particular aspect of that freedom, the core of which is ethical and religious, then the reply is certainly negative.

The Marxist solution has failed, but the realities of marginalization and exploitation remain in the world, especially the Third World, as does the reality of human alienation, especially in the more advanced countries. Against these phenomena the Church strongly raises her voice. Vast multitudes are still living in conditions of great material and moral poverty. The collapse of the Communist system in so many countries certainly removes an obstacle to facing these problems in an appropriate and realistic way, but it is not enough to bring about their solution. Indeed, there is a risk that a radical capitalistic ideology could spread which refuses even to consider these problems, in the a priori belief that any attempt to solve them is doomed to failure, and which blindly entrusts their solution to the free development of market forces.
. hrmjustin Dec 2013 #1
That was good. The tides they are a changing. Luminous Animal Dec 2013 #2
Rope-a-dope pope. Kurovski Dec 2013 #3
Wow. Good catch. Maybe getting that Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #10
I thought he was an Aussie. geardaddy Dec 2013 #40
Jon Stewart is American. Kurovski Dec 2013 #41
Oops, I meant Varney geardaddy Dec 2013 #42
He'd have been the better human being in the clan, rest his soul. Kurovski Dec 2013 #45
He grew up in New Jersey pam4water Dec 2013 #55
Not Stewart geardaddy Dec 2013 #60
Hello stranger. myrna minx Dec 2013 #92
What?! Kurovski Dec 2013 #111
It sounded like tables being turned over upi402 Dec 2013 #4
Let's all be like Jesus! freshwest Dec 2013 #73
Perfect Release The Hounds Dec 2013 #97
lol ctsnowman Dec 2013 #105
Of course the money changers figured out a long time ago, that... Larry Ogg Dec 2013 #113
! Kurovski Dec 2013 #115
If there was ever a Pope..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #5
I like this shmiley Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #12
This is always so embarrassing..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #13
I'm awake in the middle of the night here.. funny to get a response. Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #15
Well, just great! DeSwiss Dec 2013 #18
Well there is one major "flaw" with this CBGLuthier Dec 2013 #26
I'm not so sure its a myth..... DeSwiss Dec 2013 #31
I left the computer for a few hours and only saw this now.. just so you know Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #30
There's some other flaws jeff47 Dec 2013 #37
Actually 2naSalit Dec 2013 #81
competition Locrian Dec 2013 #120
That's Some of the Best Work I've Seen JS Do cer7711 Dec 2013 #6
I'd say the entire episode was Emmy worthy. Even including the interview, Kurovski Dec 2013 #43
Yeah this episode was truly awesome. painesghost Dec 2013 #88
I have to wonder JackInGreen Dec 2013 #7
They'd get their servants to sweep it up and sell it to a coal fired power plant. MADem Dec 2013 #17
FOX "News" is a National Joke. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #8
Well yeah, it would be a joke if so many didn't take it so seriously... bluesbassman Dec 2013 #52
There really aren't that many.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #67
More like a national disgrace. Why does no one picket, demonstrate against, occupy, these abusers? freshwest Dec 2013 #77
Same reason Occupy couldn't protest in front of the Stock Exchange. It's all private property. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #82
Well kinda. The sidewalks aren't private property. No one seems to protest these guys and freshwest Dec 2013 #85
That is pure awesomeness Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2013 #9
So is that sig line of yours... freshwest Dec 2013 #108
jon stewart is a boon to humankind Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #11
Jon. Brilliant. Again. Scuba Dec 2013 #14
Jon and his creative team, yes. Kurovski Dec 2013 #44
Shared. Every supply-sider idiot needs to watch this. HughBeaumont Dec 2013 #16
I think that their focus is simply on a global scale. stillwaiting Dec 2013 #23
You got it. freshwest Jan 2014 #124
Fantastic! Delphinus Dec 2013 #19
du rec. xchrom Dec 2013 #20
Love it! Love it! Love it! I hope the network doesn't try to force him to apologize. mucifer Dec 2013 #21
That's so good I'm going to watch it again. LWolf Dec 2013 #22
Trivia: Every time Stuart Varney is on a TV screen at all in any capacity NuclearDem Dec 2013 #24
Wow. Just...wow. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2013 #25
Fell down in my kitchen laughing at this last night! bullwinkle428 Dec 2013 #27
stuart varney...what a fucking prick. heartless prick spanone Dec 2013 #28
I'm convinced Varney believes what he says. AAO Dec 2013 #69
It could be that before their first day at fox.. Cha Dec 2013 #87
it's hard to fathom how heartless these bastards are. spanone Dec 2013 #96
don't forget the lobotomy. nt TeamPooka Dec 2013 #112
Of course! Cha Dec 2013 #114
Thank you, and Jon Stewart. Conservatives are clearly proud of being evil, murderous, greedy scum. Zorra Dec 2013 #29
Jon was in great form last night Gothmog Dec 2013 #32
knr Douglas Carpenter Dec 2013 #33
That was hilarious! TxDemChem Dec 2013 #34
LMFAO perfect. n/t L0oniX Dec 2013 #35
I note Stewart doesn't want to relegate the Pope to the religion group. Eleanors38 Dec 2013 #36
K&R... SomethingFishy Dec 2013 #38
Wasn't there a vampire named Varney? Rozlee Dec 2013 #39
The only other Varney I know of is Jim Varney Bluenorthwest Dec 2013 #117
Ah yes, Jim Varney. Rozlee Dec 2013 #118
Loved this! I had to interrupt my laughing out loud to explain to mr z who jamie dimon is me b zola Dec 2013 #46
I will forever remember Dimon as the dog who barked "Everyone should always pay their mortgage" Kurovski Dec 2013 #47
I'll never forget the slavering awe and respect many congressmen accorded maddiemom Dec 2013 #56
Not only that rufus dog Dec 2013 #66
Obviously it's someone whom financial reporters would felate... hootinholler Dec 2013 #65
Huge K&R, this is GENIOUS. n/t Whisp Dec 2013 #48
That Was Awesome colsohlibgal Dec 2013 #49
LMFAO!! docgee Dec 2013 #50
Does that dick taste expensive... JimboBillyBubbaBob Dec 2013 #51
Brilliantly crude! polichick Dec 2013 #53
Priceless! Again. Stewart and his writers nailed it. maddiemom Dec 2013 #54
I laughed so hard when I heard that. pam4water Dec 2013 #57
That was fricken bpositive Dec 2013 #58
Epic! 2Legit Dec 2013 #59
That was amazing! NC_Nurse Dec 2013 #61
Has anyone here actually read the EVANGELII GAUDIUM? joshcryer Dec 2013 #62
I have read it. Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #89
Yeah, but, it starts off with stuff like: joshcryer Dec 2013 #90
I still think you are misreading it Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #94
204 has nothing to do with capitalism, though, it's automation. joshcryer Dec 2013 #95
It has everything to do with capitalism and nothing to do with automation Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #100
There's no assumption of goodness... joshcryer Dec 2013 #102
"corporate fascism is the greatest threat we face now" Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #103
I consider the Catholic Church a corporation in and of itself. joshcryer Dec 2013 #104
" I'm sure at this point you are no longer interested in a conversation." Fortinbras Armstrong Dec 2013 #106
It's not the exact opposite though. joshcryer Dec 2013 #107
Thank you for making me aware. I'm taking time to absorb, and plan to maddiemom Dec 2013 #123
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch.....nt Enthusiast Dec 2013 #63
If this was spontaneous... Moral Compass Dec 2013 #64
not sure why people think Varney is Aussie Skittles Dec 2013 #68
Then he's exactly what he sounds like Moral Compass Dec 2013 #70
actually, I've always thought an Aussie accent sounds like a mixture of Brit and American Skittles Dec 2013 #71
SCREAMING with laughter. I haven't laughed that much all year. Thanks! freshwest Dec 2013 #72
Kudlow and Varney... Moostache Dec 2013 #74
Kudlow rambles on about what a hot little Catholic he is and how he "adores" the pope. Kurovski Dec 2013 #86
There shouldn't only be a higher minimum wage, RoccoR5955 Dec 2013 #75
The line in the OP was stolen from Kathy Griffin spooky3 Dec 2013 #76
I think the line is even older than that. Kurovski Dec 2013 #84
It's a common response to hecklers in the comedy biz, and has been for 40 years or more alcibiades_mystery Dec 2013 #98
If you read my post, you saw that I acknowledged that KG may have stolen it from someone else. spooky3 Dec 2013 #109
It's in public domain. Like Shakespeare! Kurovski Dec 2013 #116
Bravo, Jon Stewart! sheshe2 Dec 2013 #78
Bang! dchill Dec 2013 #79
Damn, I needed that !!! russspeakeasy Dec 2013 #80
Infallability SUX when you disagree with it, don't it? Volaris Dec 2013 #83
That was great. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #91
Thank for this link Rufus Dog! mdbl Dec 2013 #93
Omg! lol! JNelson6563 Dec 2013 #99
Excellent!!!! Owl Dec 2013 #101
Holy fuck that was funny. blackspade Dec 2013 #110
"I go to church to save my soul" Stuart Varney arely staircase Dec 2013 #119
I hope Stewart Varney sees that..... AsahinaKimi Dec 2013 #121
This keeps popping back up, and LWolf Dec 2013 #122
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