General Discussion

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

99. I get that it's very important to you to think that everyone accepts that.

Sun Nov 3, 2013, 04:41 PM

Nov 2013

"Not wanting to go there" is not the same thing as "accepting that the man lived".

Also, there's nowhere in the Dawkins piece that says "Jesus had an objective historical existence blah blah blah". Dawkins is talking about certain broad moral take-aways that are commonly attributed to Jesus, although some of them can be traced back to Buddha or other traditions as well.

He is not, in that article, weighing in on the historical debate.

But again, it's a pointless argument. "He did SO live!" Okay, whatever. There's no evidence outside the Bible. And the Bible is not exactly an infallible document, from where I sit.

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You know for those who celebrate Christmas, [View all] gopiscrap Nov 2013 OP

Yes the church picked the date to get people to stop celebrating pagan holidays. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #1

yes I know that the statement was for the non thinkers gopiscrap Nov 2013 #6

Was Jesus MagnumUK Nov 2013 #2

Good question gopiscrap Nov 2013 #3

according to virtually all historians the question has been answered arely staircase Nov 2013 #27

you mean according to wikipedia, and "biblical scholars". Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #81

no arely staircase Nov 2013 #87

The only way Richard Dawkins would "know" Jesus existed, would be if he was alive 2000 years ago. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #93

valid point. he accepts that is the consensus of historians arely staircase Nov 2013 #95

Again, I do not believe that the objective existence of "Jesus" is even a front-burner topic for Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #97

any scholars antiquity arely staircase Nov 2013 #98

I get that it's very important to you to think that everyone accepts that. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #99

history matters arely staircase Nov 2013 #100

Do you accept that History is based upon objective evidence as opposed to popular consensus? Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #101

funny arely staircase Nov 2013 #102

Again, every "Atheist" in the world could "Say Jesus existed" Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #104

obviosly not everyone arely staircase Nov 2013 #106

I don't know. However, I think there is more objective historical evidence to say so Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #107

ok let us try to underetand one another arely staircase Nov 2013 #112

Fair enough. I'm saying I don't know. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #113

fair enough arely staircase Nov 2013 #114

*** Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #116

Aww... this has got to be the most heart-warming exchange I've seen on DU in some time. LAGC Nov 2013 #118

one last thing arely staircase Nov 2013 #119

I like to think so. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #5

Like the Tootsie Pop commercial says: Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #11

Depends what the Bible says sakabatou Nov 2013 #109

some of us celebrate Festivus napkinz Nov 2013 #4

Ah, but . . . Petrushka Nov 2013 #7

would that be the Feast of the Annunciation, March 25th? gopiscrap Nov 2013 #8

Nope! Petrushka Nov 2013 #24

you know in the Roman Catholic liturgical calendar gopiscrap Nov 2013 #26

wasn't the IC the conception of Mary by her mother? nt arely staircase Nov 2013 #50

no gopiscrap Nov 2013 #51

I think so arely staircase Nov 2013 #52

Immaculate Conception = Mary Tree-Hugger Nov 2013 #74

Yes Tree-Hugger Nov 2013 #73

Yes it was. Warpy Nov 2013 #111

There was a show... Tree-Hugger Nov 2013 #75

My celebration is all about pscot Nov 2013 #9

You know its funny... yuiyoshida Nov 2013 #10

that to me shows the ethnocentricty of the US gopiscrap Nov 2013 #12

You maybe correct, I suspect this started... yuiyoshida Nov 2013 #14

from what I read, for the most part it did. gopiscrap Nov 2013 #16

Since I am yuiyoshida Nov 2013 #20

I bet gopiscrap Nov 2013 #21

Thank you (seriously) for your informative posts panader0 Nov 2013 #46

lol yuiyoshida Nov 2013 #72

The holiday season is all about LIGHT. . . DinahMoeHum Nov 2013 #13

Why do you hate Santa Claus!? Rex Nov 2013 #15

Virginia, there really is no Santa Claus. gopiscrap Nov 2013 #17

... Rex Nov 2013 #18

What about in the other states? seattle15 Nov 2013 #30

welcome to DU gopiscrap Nov 2013 #31

it's a play on words gopiscrap Nov 2013 #32

Because no one gets his real name right. It's Santa CLAWS. sakabatou Nov 2013 #110

Did you really need to start another Christmas thread, not that long after your first? (nt) Nine Nov 2013 #19

some people can't wait to prove how cool they are n/t ProdigalJunkMail Nov 2013 #37

You going for some kind of record? Union Scribe Nov 2013 #22

ah it's 54 days til Christmas not even 2 months gopiscrap Nov 2013 #23

The crafting catalogs pipi_k Nov 2013 #115

Yeah, but my mother and my sister-in-law both were frazzled Nov 2013 #25

Our son was born the day after Christmas. gopiscrap Nov 2013 #36

It doesn't make any difference, it's a good day to have it. Uncle Joe Nov 2013 #28

I don't care. I'm in it for the gifts and food n/t Violet_Crumble Nov 2013 #29

If this is all you have to live for it's not people who celebrate X-mas who have the problem. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #33

hey my post wan't an opinion it was a fact gopiscrap Nov 2013 #38

The other posters in this thread seem to notice a pattern with your OPs. Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #82

So what? TexasProgresive Nov 2013 #34

Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus Nevernose Nov 2013 #35

I agree it's not about Jesus gopiscrap Nov 2013 #42

True that Nevernose Nov 2013 #43

because the other 364 days there isn't a real connection gopiscrap Nov 2013 #44

Yes you are a victim of Christmas Egnever Nov 2013 #49

That is not true for Christians. Christmas is about the birth of Jesus Christ. hrmjustin Nov 2013 #117

Don't worry about it. WinkyDink Nov 2013 #39

Gee, and you know what else? cherokeeprogressive Nov 2013 #40

So what? It's a wonderful holiday if done with proper Pretzel_Warrior Nov 2013 #41

So? cordelia Nov 2013 #45

I do not celebrate Xmas, just the spirit of the holiday. n/t RebelOne Nov 2013 #47

So? Egnever Nov 2013 #48

Well, I am an asshole then. Texasgal Nov 2013 #53

I celebrate the seasons, family, friends and giving to them and others elfin Nov 2013 #54

Most people who celebrate Christmas know that. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2013 #55

you'd be amazed how many people don't know that. gopiscrap Nov 2013 #56

I don't know anyone who doesn't know that. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2013 #57

I know a shit load of crazy ass fundies who swear to God that if their church says Jesus was born on gopiscrap Nov 2013 #59

Oh, well, fundies are a completely different breed. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2013 #62

I love it gopiscrap Nov 2013 #64

You're like the kid who reminds the teacher she forgot to assign homework for the weekend nt. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2013 #58

why? because I said Jesus wasn't born on 12/25? gopiscrap Nov 2013 #60

Because no one who enjoys Christmas gives a flying you know what nt. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2013 #61

historians do gopiscrap Nov 2013 #63

Don't blame the Christians JustAnotherGen Nov 2013 #65

yeah I know gopiscrap Nov 2013 #66

I love the spiritual stance JustAnotherGen Nov 2013 #78

Good for you ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2013 #67

then at least be honest about it, gopiscrap Nov 2013 #69

I've never pretended about anything ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2013 #71

You need an excuse to spend time with family and friends? HangOnKids Nov 2013 #83

I need a day off when they have a day off too ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2013 #91

SO which historians are actively concerned with the objective historical "existence" of Jesus Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #79

Christmas is just a ripoff of Saturnalia. Vashta Nerada Nov 2013 #68

yup gopiscrap Nov 2013 #70

It's much older than that. It's about the days getting longer, etc. Good stuff. Good times. Enjoy. freshwest Nov 2013 #76

I like Easter. Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #80

actually MFM008 Nov 2013 #77

So? DrDan Nov 2013 #84

You know horse birthdays are not recognized on the date of their birth, right? DrDan Nov 2013 #85

and the Declaration of Independence was not signed on July 4th. Motown_Johnny Nov 2013 #86

I hope you have a wonderful holiday season pintobean Nov 2013 #88

You must be a real hoot at children's parties Seeking Serenity Nov 2013 #89

actually I am...all the kids love me because I am crazier than shit gopiscrap Nov 2013 #90

When the Tao is absent, ritual arises. Lao Tse Tierra_y_Libertad Nov 2013 #92

So? Glassunion Nov 2013 #94

I'm an atheist, so I don't care. I enjoy Christmas anyway. Throd Nov 2013 #96

*GASP!* NOOOO! The scales have fallen from my eyes! Oh THANK YOU!! nolabear Nov 2013 #103

I celebrate a totally secular Christmas. So did my parents. Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2013 #105

Feel better now? Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #108