HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Rebuttal to Emily Yoffee:... » Reply #17

Response to KitSileya (Original post)

Thu Oct 31, 2013, 12:46 AM

17. Women in India get it:

This male youtuber has thought and said a lot about rape. The video description gives a lot to look into, including an article I've pasted below:

He provided this to explain his video:

An Incomplete Guide to Not Creeping...

Bear in mind that following these recommendations will not make you a good guy. They will just hopefully make you be not so much of a creeper. These are preventative measures, in other words, and should be viewed as such.

Fair enough? Okay, then. Letís start with some biggies.

1. Acknowledge that you are responsible for your own actions. You are (probably) a fully-functioning adult. You probably are able to do all sorts of things on your own ó things which require the use of personal judgement. Among those things: How you relate to, and interact with, other human beings, including those who you have some interest in or desire for. Now, itís possible you may also be socially awkward, or have trouble reading other peopleís emotions or intentions, or whatever. This is your own problem to solve, not anyone elseís. It is not an excuse or justification to creep on other people. If you or other people use it that way, youíve failed basic human decency.

2. Acknowledge that you donít get to define other peopleís comfort level with you. Which is to say that you may be trying your hardest to be interesting and engaging and fun to be around ó and still come off as a creeper to someone else. Yes, that sucks for you. But you know what? It sucks for them even harder, because youíre creeping them out and making them profoundly unhappy and uncomfortable. It may not seem fair that ďcreepĒ is their assessment of you, but: Surprise! It doesnít matter, and if you try to argue with them (or anyone else) that youíre in fact not being a creep and the problem is with them not you, then you go from ďcreepĒ to ďcomplete assbag.Ē Sometimes people arenít going to like you or want to be near you. Itís just the way it is.

3. Acknowledge that no oneís required to inform you that youíre creeping (or help you to not be a creeper). Itís nice when people let you know when youíre going wrong and how. But you know what? Thatís not their job. Itís especially not their job at a convention or some other social gathering, where the reason they are there is to hang out with friends and have fun, and not to give some dude an intensive course in how not to make other people intensely uncomfortable with his presence. If you are creeping on other people, they have a perfect right to ignore you, avoid you and shut you out ó and not tell you why. Again: you are (probably) a fully-functioning adult. This is something you need to be able to handle on your own.

Shorter version of above: Itís on you not to be a creeper and to be aware of how other people respond to you.

Also extremely important:

4. Acknowledge that other people do not exist just for your amusement/interest/desire/use. Yes, I know. You know that. But oddly enough, thereís a difference between knowing it, and actually believing it ó or understanding what it means in a larger social context. People go to conventions and social gatherings to meet other people, but not necessarily (or even remotely likely) for the purpose of meeting you. The woman who is wearing a steampunky corset to a convention is almost certainly wearing it in part to enjoy being seen in it and to have people enjoy seeing her in it ó but sheís also almost certainly not wearing it for you. You are not the person she has been waiting for, the reason sheís there, or the purpose for her attendance. When you act like you are, or that she has (or should have) nothing else to do than be the object of your amusement/interest/desire/use, the likelihood that you will come across a complete creeper rises exponentially. Itís not an insult for someone else not to want to play that role for you. Itís not what theyíre there for.

So those are some overarching things to incorporate into your thinking. Here are some practical things.

5. Donít touch. Seriously, man. Youíre not eight, with the need to run your fingers over everything, nor do you lack voluntary control of your muscles. Keep your hands, arms, legs and everything else to yourself. This is not actually difficult. Hereís an idea: That person you want to touch? Put them in charge of the whole touch experience. That is, let them initiate any physical contact and let them set the pace of that contact when or if they do ó and accept that that thereís a very excellent chance no touch is forthcoming. Do that when you meet them for the first time. Do that after youíve met them 25 times. Do it just as a general rule. Also, friendly tip: If you do touch someone and they say ďdonít touch me,Ē or otherwise make it clear that touching was not something you should have done, the correct response is: ďI apologize. I am sorry I made you uncomfortable.Ē Then back the hell off, possibly to the next state over.

6. Give them space. Hey: Hold your arm straight out in front of your body. Where your fingertips are? Thatís a nice minimum distance for someone youíre meeting or donít know particularly well (itís also not a bad distance for people you do know). Getting inside that space generally makes people uncomfortable, and why make people uncomfortable? Thatís creepy. Also creepy: Sneaking up behind people and getting in close to them, or otherwise getting into their personal space without them being aware of it. If youíre in a crowded room and you need to scrunch in, back up when the option becomes available; donít take it as an opportunity to linger inside that personal zone. Speaking of which:

7. Donít box people in. Trapping people in a corner or making it difficult for them to leave without you having the option to block them makes you an assbag. Hereís a hint: If you are actually interesting to other people, you donít need to box them into a corner.

8. That amusing sexual innuendo? So not amusing. If you canít make a conversation without trying to shoehorn suggestive or sexually-related topics into the mix, then you know what? You canít make conversation. Consider also the possibility the playing the sexual innuendo card early and often signals to others in big flashing neon letters that youíre likely a tiresome person who brings nothing else to table. This is another time where an excellent strategy is to let the other person be in charge of bringing sexual innuendo to the conversational table, and managing the frequency of its appearance therein.

9. Someone wants to leave? Donít go with them. Which is to say, if they bow out of a conversation with you, say goodbye and let them go. If they leave the room, donít take that as your cue to follow them from a distance and show up wherever it is they are as if it just happens you are showing up in the same place. Related to this, if you spend any amount of time positioning yourself to be where that person you are interested in will be, or will walk by, for the purpose of ďjust happeningĒ to be there when they are, youíre probably being creepy as hell. Likewise, if you attach yourself to a group just to be near that person. Dude, itís obvious, and itís squicky.

10. Someone doesnít want you around? Go away. Here are some subtle hints: When you come by they donít make eye contact with you. When they are in a group the group contracts or turns away from you. If you interject in the conversation people avoid following up on what youíve said. One of the friends of the person you are interested in interposes themselves between you and that person. And so on. When stuff like that happens, guess what? Youíre not wanted. When that happens, hereís what you do: Go away. Grumble to yourself (and only to yourself) all you like about their discourteousness or whatever. Do it away from them. Remember that you donít get to define other peopleís comfort level with you. Remember that theyíre not obliged to inform you about why they donít want you around. Although, for Godís sake, if they do tell you they donít want you around, listen to them.

Again: Not a complete instruction set on how not to be a creeper. But a reasonable start, I think.


Follow up video:

This guy has thought a lot and learned more about the subject. There are other good videos by him on the sidebar.

I grew up in a different time, but know predators can smell prey a mile off.
Rape is something the world will come to grips with or else sink into a state of barbarism. I tell young people and older people to beware, which is basic.

As ModPrimate says, it is necessary for us to evolve.

Reply to this post

Back to OP Alert abuse Link to post in-thread

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Please login to view edit histories.