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Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
48. It's the scale of the NSA's alleged surveillance that's worrying
Mon Oct 28, 2013, 05:19 AM
Oct 2013
...The head of the European parliament delegation, British MEP Claude Moraes, told the BBC it was the scale of the NSA's alleged surveillance that was worrying.

"The headline news, that 35 leaders had their phones tapped is not the real crux of the issue," he said.

"It really is the El Mundo type story, that millions of citizens of countries... had their landlines and other communications tapped. So it's about mass surveillance. It's about scale and proportionality."

He said a priority of the European mission was to discuss the impact of American spying on EU citizens' fundamental right to privacy.

The BBC's Europe correspondent Chris Morris says that with every new allegation, demands are growing in Europe - and in Germany in particular - for explanations and for guarantees of a change in culture...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24699733



According to certain prolific and persistent voices here at DU, to expect such a culture-change from the rulers over the already supine US people would be... what, naïve?

"Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." - Benito Mussolini

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US Ambassador to Spain James Costos
http://internacional.elpais.com/internacional/2013/10/27/actualidad/1382912344_420746.html [/center]
Can someone ring up the Germans, and [View all] MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 OP
Well... It Appears That Spain Is In The On-Deck Circle For Tomorrow... Check It Out !!! WillyT Oct 2013 #1
Snowden is totally punking these countries MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #4
"many heads would have rolled by now."...or would they? AverageJoe90 Oct 2013 #85
Wow! They have a huge govt. cui bono Oct 2013 #20
It's the scale of the NSA's alleged surveillance that's worrying Ghost Dog Oct 2013 #48
I wonder how many people realize "data" about calls is not the content of the calls themselves. I okaawhatever Oct 2013 #94
STOP IT MANNY Skittles Oct 2013 #2
It's NSA Manny! R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #9
Any foreign leader Mr.Bill Oct 2013 #3
Huh? You think they *really* tapped her phone? MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #5
That was too easy for you. R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #11
Well, he had a good point no? MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #13
I would like to know which American official forked over scores of phone numbers, R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #17
Good question. Who gave the NSA those private numbers? riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #53
Who's a political toddler? Mr.Bill Oct 2013 #18
Whomever they are I'm sure the NSA won't be on it immediately. R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #19
I have no idea if they really tapped her phone. Mr.Bill Oct 2013 #12
Um, don't we agree that if the US got sensitive information MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #15
I'm not exactly sure how I feel about that. Mr.Bill Oct 2013 #16
Every country builds acre sized data centers to store every phone calll made by us just like the NSA Dragonfli Oct 2013 #38
... woo me with science Oct 2013 #39
Yes! DeSwiss Oct 2013 #43
It's ONLY MEH-TAH DAY-TA !!!! GoneFishin Oct 2013 #50
It absolutely 100% is her fault for using an unencrypted line. joshcryer Oct 2013 #36
The NSA can decrypt. riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #54
You see her skirt was very short and she was walking alone at night... AngryAmish Oct 2013 #55
She WAS just asking for it, practically BEGGING to be tapped. Dragonfli Oct 2013 #62
It was 100% irresponsible to use an unsecure line and expect security. joshcryer Oct 2013 #67
So it was her fault we spied on her? Is there a law that says we MUST spy on an ally Dragonfli Oct 2013 #69
No. She used an unsecured line and should not expect security. joshcryer Oct 2013 #70
No, I understand perfectly, you just think a certain way which I find deplorable Dragonfli Oct 2013 #74
Vile, nasty characterization. joshcryer Oct 2013 #77
Your justification and lack of moral clarity that drives you to blame the victim Dragonfli Oct 2013 #80
I am not defending spying. joshcryer Oct 2013 #84
Not trying to score points, just think "our" actions are morally corrupt Dragonfli Oct 2013 #87
Of course they are. joshcryer Oct 2013 #89
She's had a secure cell phone since Obama became a president riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #97
Ouch. MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #99
Once secured the taps failed. joshcryer Oct 2013 #101
Link to a source that the taps failed. nt riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #109
Link a source that says they succeeded. joshcryer Oct 2013 #110
There's a ton of sites demonstrating the NSA can break encrypted phones riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #114
and if you're naive enough to believe the germans, our allies, aren't spying on us,as well as mossad dionysus Oct 2013 #82
It's ironic because Merkel colluded with the NSA. joshcryer Oct 2013 #88
I didn't call you a rapist, but victim blaming, in a context you might understand Dragonfli Oct 2013 #90
Oh yeah, you've been so cordial and nice. joshcryer Oct 2013 #104
the naivete knows no bounds, apparently. dionysus Oct 2013 #92
I take it you have proof the Germans tapped Obama's phone as well? Assumptions appear Dragonfli Oct 2013 #93
Where are y getting that she was using an unsecure phone? riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #73
It didn't get encypted until 2009. joshcryer Oct 2013 #76
So her cell is encrypted and the NSA goes to the effort to decrypt it?! riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #81
It started in 2002. joshcryer Oct 2013 #86
For as long as Obama has been President, Merkel's phone has been encrypted riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #91
And they didn't succeed under Obama. joshcryer Oct 2013 #102
That's why Obama said there's no tapping now or going forward... riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #105
I doubt he had all the details. joshcryer Oct 2013 #107
Whether successful or not, they tried nonetheless, now why would they try to tap Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #106
You expect better of intelligence agencies? joshcryer Oct 2013 #108
Then you agree the NSA has overstepped its' bounds and needs to be reigned in or curtailed? n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #111
Absolutely, 100%. joshcryer Oct 2013 #112
Does the NSA have a legitimate reason for being or should we scrap it all together? n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #113
scrap it and the cia joshcryer Oct 2013 #115
How would you handle the issue of U.S. enemies overseas, are the terrorists for real? n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #116
That's where transparency comes in. joshcryer Oct 2013 #117
This is BS victim blaming crap. joshcryer Oct 2013 #66
So you're saying Obama knows all about everything that's being done by the NSA? n/t Fumesucker Oct 2013 #68
Nope. joshcryer Oct 2013 #71
You said heads of state spy on other states Fumesucker Oct 2013 #75
Forget about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor Fume, he's "on a roll" and doesn't need to make sense Dragonfli Oct 2013 #78
"All about everything" is a lot to know. joshcryer Oct 2013 #79
... Fumesucker Oct 2013 #83
stupid comparison, rape is wrong in every case, but spying is not , is it wrong to spy on China ? JI7 Oct 2013 #98
Ok, on my way right freaking now Hutzpa Oct 2013 #6
... Scootaloo Oct 2013 #44
I heard Obama told Frau Merkel straight up pscot Oct 2013 #7
What, does she think "now" denotes an *instant* of time? MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science Oct 2013 #8
The Chancelor knows the truth, Manny. R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #14
So because she was "Eastern Bloc", she knows who spies and who doesn't? Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #23
Yes, she does, in fact know. joshcryer Oct 2013 #35
Merkel is being awfully ungrateful Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #21
Come to think of it, at that moment we MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #22
Manny...do you realize your phone is tapped and there's a camera on you? Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #24
My apologies! MannyGoldstein Oct 2013 #25
"Those ARE my pants!" Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #26
I can see you too! Cali_Democrat Oct 2013 #29
Shhhhh Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #31
I wouldn't blow that for all the money in Mitt Romney's couch. Scootaloo Oct 2013 #45
Gee, whiz. Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #47
Sorry Merkel that's the price u pay for 9/11 Hijackers mtg & lvg Germany undetected SoCalCisco Oct 2013 #30
Do we as American citizens get the same award, and for what perceived wrongs do we R. Daneel Olivaw Oct 2013 #32
Americans lost their Constitutuonal Rights long before Snowden told us we had with SoCalCisco Oct 2013 #37
Thank Gawd we finally voted for an administration that would damn well keep it that way! Dragonfli Oct 2013 #40
Welcome to our post 9/11 world. Better than post 9/11 "GOP" world SoCalCisco Oct 2013 #60
With all due respect, spying on all Americans does not make us safe, the one chance to prove they Dragonfli Oct 2013 #61
"DONT MENTION THE WAR!" Warren DeMontague Oct 2013 #27
This isn't coming from Snowden, though. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #28
You mean. like...Snowden has no message?!? Zorra Oct 2013 #51
And a Ted Cruz leftist Doctor_J Oct 2013 #64
Ted Cruz is the worst sort of leftist, FUCKING COMMIE that one! Dragonfli Oct 2013 #95
The Germans are more annoyed by Merkel's double standard. joshcryer Oct 2013 #33
Your money will be waiting at Drop Zone Zebra. NBachers Oct 2013 #34
Yep, it's no biggie really jsr Oct 2013 #41
Once again... DirtyDawg Oct 2013 #42
I think you are right, The Germans are lying about what is pissing them off Dragonfli Oct 2013 #49
The TPM article says, essentially, that it was metadata. At least for Spain. randome Oct 2013 #56
K&R DeSwiss Oct 2013 #46
Can someone ring up George Bush and ask him why Merkel was under surveillance? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #52
Can someone ring up Barack Obama and let him know he's been POTUS for five years? Fumesucker Oct 2013 #96
Can someone ring up Fumesucker and let him know Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #100
It's so embarassing being European just now. sibelian Oct 2013 #57
Latest Snowden memes are that he's a naive, stupid patsy riderinthestorm Oct 2013 #58
The colossal IMPORTANCE of his unimportance has never been lost on me. sibelian Oct 2013 #59
"Gentlemen don't read each other's mail..." LanternWaste Oct 2013 #63
I tried to call and they told me she was busy talking to Putin JVS Oct 2013 #65
Haha, good one, Manny! City Lights Oct 2013 #72
Did someone say the Germans? BainsBane Oct 2013 #103
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