Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
70. Tying medical care to the GDP in any form sounds bad on the face of it and will be demonized.
Mon Jul 29, 2013, 12:52 PM
Jul 2013

Last edited Mon Jul 29, 2013, 08:20 PM - Edit history (1)

Single Payer health care financed by general revenue is where such a mechanism makes sense as it maintains basic care for all of its citizens regardless of income.

IMO, the ACA was designed to convince Americans to accept Single Payer in time. But there is a form of 'rationing' in Single Payer countries Americans don't want to accept as a reality. But it is not for profit and is not unjust.

Many Americans see themselves as more entitled than others by the lives they have lived. We have a mixed system since a majority don't really support Single Payer for that reason. The issue isn't in Washington. It's more personal than some are willing to admit.

For example, should a person who is mobility impaired be guaranteed a regular wheelchair or a top of the line, all bells and whistles, high powered scooter?

The answer to that question in a Single Payer system is a snapshot of the prosperity of a nation and its tax funded health care system. It is proof of unspoken beliefs about equality. I was brought up with this meme:

'Budgets are moral documents.'

Because they show what a nation values. Some Americans don't care about equality in that arena, despite their lip service to it.

They have worked hard and their SOL has been good enough to afford what they feel they deserve and pressure the current system to give them the best, even if that mixed system means others get little or nothing.

Freedom isn't free and neither is Equality. People need to consdier the costs before they blithely say it's easy. This is where Single Payer gets down to the Nitty Gritty.

Visualize our population of raging Tea Partiers running around on taxpayer funded electric scooters, cursing socialized medicine.

Or just look at the Tea Party to see arrogance in action to others in need in help. A trip down memory lane during the ACA debate, even before the Republicans called for the death of the uninsured for 'freedom and liberty.' They dare talk about Death Panels?

Oh, well:



Connecting to GDP reflects the overall health of the economies of single payer systems. This doesn't have to be a denial of care issue.

But it'll be demagogued in 2014 and 2016 without looking at the larger picture. Because the media and many people are refusing to discuss what PBO wants us to consider for the path to take:



PBO believes we will not let those 50 million people down in 2014.

It will be hard to get honest discussion of this anywhere.

What the heck? You felt compelled to post this thing again? cali Jul 2013 #1
Because it's news, and a word in the other OP was detracting focus from the issue. ProSense Jul 2013 #2
In other words your 'Dean screams "death panels"' comment backfired. n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2013 #8
Evidently, now what are your thought on the issue? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #10
Makes you wonder doesn't it? Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #13
That's not tinfoil. Astroturfing is an established messaging tactic. n/t mattclearing Jul 2013 #14
Also: mattclearing Jul 2013 #21
Very interesting Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #32
"Professional posters, maybe they get paid by an outside consulting firm" ProSense Jul 2013 #27
Backwards zipplewrath Jul 2013 #45
"They probably already thought you were a paid shill." ProSense Jul 2013 #47
Hey, you asked the question zipplewrath Jul 2013 #48
There is no "logic" to calling people "paid shills" ProSense Jul 2013 #54
Your logic zipplewrath Jul 2013 #57
It was snark, ProSense Jul 2013 #61
Dean is only lobbying for whom he now works. kelliekat44 Jul 2013 #133
I would trust what Dean says on this quinnox Jul 2013 #3
What you say does not follow Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #7
Well, that combined with being Governor and that his main area of expertise cali Jul 2013 #11
Please read the statement I was responding to. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #15
Don't you think most people here know that Dean was also Governor and cali Jul 2013 #17
The poster said... Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #19
lol. you too bunna. cali Jul 2013 #24
The biggest problem for me is that Dean (whom I like a bunch) is working for a lobbying/legal firm Hoyt Jul 2013 #35
That is a mischaracterization of the panel. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #16
Huh? Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #18
That's ProSense Jul 2013 #22
You've confused me. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #26
I disagree with Dean's characterization. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #29
Fair enough but my question is... Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #31
Well ProSense Jul 2013 #37
Really? Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #42
Wait, ProSense Jul 2013 #44
If it's offered but ignored Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #46
You don't know if it will be ignored. ProSense Jul 2013 #49
I have relevant data points Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #50
Dean is right. Again. Improving the ACA is important work to be supported Scuba Jul 2013 #4
I don't think this is going to improve the bill. ProSense Jul 2013 #40
Better. mattclearing Jul 2013 #5
Universal healthcare would solve this problem... think Jul 2013 #6
And do you have a problem with Dr. Dean? Mr. David Jul 2013 #9
"Rate setting" now has a law behind it. The ACA. tridim Jul 2013 #12
The problem is Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #23
It's also clear to me that you are attempting to attack Howard Dean before he announces Mr. David Jul 2013 #20
WTF are you talking about? ProSense Jul 2013 #25
I think Dean intends to repeal that part of the law to IMPROVE on Obamacare... Mr. David Jul 2013 #92
The repeal ProSense Jul 2013 #96
So far you're just bullying everyone who disagrees with you.. Mr. David Jul 2013 #99
No, I'm responding to anyone discussing the OP topic, and find it bizarre ProSense Jul 2013 #113
Maybe there's a better way to try to control costs? Just Saying Jul 2013 #28
Is it primary season already? leftstreet Jul 2013 #30
I support Dean. PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #33
Fine, but I think he's wrong. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #34
Part of the problem is counting on ACOs Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #36
You're against "Accountable Care Organizations"? ProSense Jul 2013 #38
I can only report the facts. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #39
Do you ProSense Jul 2013 #41
Of course. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #43
This is an ProSense Jul 2013 #52
If it's not financially viable for the participants Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #59
One of the articles you posted ProSense Jul 2013 #71
Straw man Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #74
LOL! ProSense Jul 2013 #77
I see you Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #79
My husband is in one. Jury still out on how it will end up. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #132
Here is another link Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #51
Again, the article is about ProSense Jul 2013 #53
You can lead a horse to water Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #56
Nothing ProSense Jul 2013 #58
And have I not repeatedly talked about improving ACOs? Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #62
"The problem is the ACO concept, as currently designed, is failing." ProSense Jul 2013 #67
I have made progress Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #69
Well, you went from saying they're a "failing" concept to supporting them. ProSense Jul 2013 #73
Nice misquote of what I said. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #76
"The problem is the ACO concept, as currently designed, is failing." ProSense Jul 2013 #78
Of course I said that and but that is not what you claimed I said above Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #80
So you weren't saying the "ACO concept" is "failing"? ProSense Jul 2013 #81
Is selective editing a hobby? Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #82
But ProSense Jul 2013 #84
Ignoring your selective editing Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #85
Nonsense ProSense Jul 2013 #86
*yawn* Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #87
"But, financially, it wasn’t viable." ProSense Jul 2013 #89
Nonsense! Yes, that's YOU! Mr. David Jul 2013 #97
Dealing with some issues? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #98
Ignore Nonsense. Mr. David Jul 2013 #95
Apparently ProSense Jul 2013 #100
Attacking me with my own words? Mr. David Jul 2013 #102
Should I criticize you for other people's "words" ProSense Jul 2013 #108
Continuing to attack me is just a good way to solidify your creds as a shill and a bully Mr. David Jul 2013 #109
Bizarre. ProSense Jul 2013 #112
+1 Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #111
Not what they are paid for zipplewrath Jul 2013 #60
You would seem correct. Bunnahabhain Jul 2013 #63
LOL! ProSense Jul 2013 #65
Are you "paid" by the circus? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #64
More deflection n/t zipplewrath Jul 2013 #68
Can't answer, can you?n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #72
That nag? Mr. David Jul 2013 #101
Wow! ProSense Jul 2013 #103
Yeah, yeah, laugh it up. Mr. David Jul 2013 #104
I disagree with Dean, and the panel isn't going to be repealed. ProSense Jul 2013 #107
Guess what? I still support Dean. PowerToThePeople Jul 2013 #110
I suppose early Dean hits should be considered a good sign. nt wtmusic Jul 2013 #55
No one would be saying anything about him if Pretzel_Warrior Jul 2013 #66
Take the OP for whatever. I simpy disagree with Dean on this. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #83
Tying medical care to the GDP in any form sounds bad on the face of it and will be demonized. freshwest Jul 2013 #70
The fact that the efforts to repeal this are being pushed by Republicans says a lot. ProSense Jul 2013 #75
Why attack Dr. Dean? GlashFordan Jul 2013 #88
Wait ProSense Jul 2013 #90
John Mittens Kerry GlashFordan Jul 2013 #91
Well, the RW certainly hated Kerry. ProSense Jul 2013 #94
Bush came into 2004 stronger than Reagan or Clinton - he was at 60% in December 2003 karynnj Jul 2013 #106
Excellent comment. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #114
Thanks for bringing facts and reason to DU. freshwest Jul 2013 #117
Hello! Dean is doing the Attacking on Obamacare and it's Cha Jul 2013 #134
Before or after he howled at the moon? nt AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #93
Hey, I loved that howl. But Kerry had a longer track record. He would have been a great POTUS. freshwest Jul 2013 #118
I'm sure some idiot will mention the "Dean scream". Rex Jul 2013 #105
It's interesting how much the topic is being ignored n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #115
Updated OP. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #116
Dean appeared on Martin Bashir this afternoon BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #119
Thanks. ProSense Jul 2013 #122
Thanks. Dean does not repeat his rationing line, just saying it won't save costs ( false). SunSeeker Jul 2013 #136
You have an interesting set of enemies. LeftyMom Jul 2013 #120
Always interesting to see the comments from those who can't deal with reality. n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #121
Strangely enough, I think Dr. Howard Dean has a pretty good grasp of health policy. LeftyMom Jul 2013 #123
Fine, but I can disagree with him, can't I? n/t ProSense Jul 2013 #124
I like Dean, but it is ironic that he is a health industry lobbyist now bhikkhu Jul 2013 #125
Are you trying to mislead people into thinking Dean called the IPAB "death panels" last1standing Jul 2013 #126
"Death panels" is what Republican call it. The repeal effort is being led by Republicans. ProSense Jul 2013 #127
Prosense: Oh my, Dean attacks "death panels." Any thoughts on the issue? last1standing Jul 2013 #128
Yup, that's what I posted. Spin it any way you'd like. ProSense Jul 2013 #129
You need another meter then. last1standing Jul 2013 #130
No, I didn't, but you're desperately are trying to push that claim. ProSense Jul 2013 #131
The LA Times ripped Dean: "No, Howard Dean, Obamacare doesn't ration Medicare" SunSeeker Jul 2013 #135
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Howard Dean Attacks Impor...»Reply #70