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Showing Original Post only (View all)Gun Ownership Neither Increases Nor Decreases the Crime Rate [View all]
Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2013, 08:41 PM - Edit history (2)
http://www.psmag.com/culture/gun-ownership-neither-increases-nor-decreases-crime-rate-55473/Recently, Alex Berezow analyzed the correlation between the number of privately-owned guns per capita in a country and the rate of homicide by firearms. This is a sensible first step to answer the question of whether reducing the number of guns in a society makes it safer. However, the greater purpose of gun control is not to reduce firearm homicide specifically, but to reduce the overall rates of murder and violent crime in a country.
...
A simple correlation analysis cannot tell us which of these ideas, if any, are correct, but it can shed light, to some degree, on whether gun control is associated with less violent crime. Lets look first to see if there is a correlation between the number of guns per capita and the number of intentional homicides, of all types, per capita in 172 countries:
The answer, clearly, is no. In fact, the statistically insignificant trend is toward slightly (as inferred from the negative slope of the line) fewer homicides as gun ownership increases.
Further, we will follow Alexs lead investigating this correlation by removing some countries. Lets remove all countries with very poor development (e.g., some African and South and Central American states), states with extremely high murder rates (nearly all of which have very low gun ownership) and states currently involved in civil wars or major domestic unrest. This leaves 72 more developed countries to analyze. Are homicide rates higher in these countries with more guns?
The answer is still no. There is no reasonable way to cherry-pick any sample of countries to arrive at a significant correlation, or even a hint that reduced gun ownership lowers overall homicide rate.
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First, there is no correlation between the number of guns per capita and the overall homicide rate. So people who believe fewer guns will reduce the homicide rate may be wrong. Second, there is no correlation between the number of guns per capita and the rate of assaults and robberies. So people who believe guns make society safer by reducing overall crime may be wrong, too.
This is presenting familiar data in a new way (it asks about all homicides whereas previously people have been posting gun deaths: you are more likely to be killed by a gun in a country with more guns, but you're not particularly more likely to be killed).
That aside, I'm interested in the US here. Guess which dot we are? Not very difficult, is it?
We're very far to the right, meaning we have more guns than most other countries.
Now check out that line, that's the regression. That's what tells us where our homicide rate "should" be if our homicide rate varied with gun ownership like it does for other countries. We're way above that. (We're also way above it on the version of this chart that gets posted more often on DU, looking at only gun deaths rather than all homicides.) That is, we're more violent than the model says we should be. If we lower our gun ownership rate to the median and maintain that variance we would still be among the most violent countries on earth (and, per this correlation, we would have a higher homicide rate than we do now, though it would be a lower gun death rate).
EDIT:
I did a regression below for the G-20 (which basically matched Hartsfield's results) and the G-8 (which showed an equally weak positive correlation), FWIW. And, while I'm editing, why not include the charts:
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There have been more Americans killed by gun violence in the last decade than in every
Bandit
Apr 2013
#6
Fair enough. Like I said, we're more violent than the regression would suggest we "should" be
Recursion
Apr 2013
#15
So because you personally have not destroyed any humans, none could possibly have been destroyed?
Bandit
Apr 2013
#11
When data contradicts "common sense", what you thought was "common sense" was wrong
Taitertots
Apr 2013
#25
How convenient... Only analysis and data that you agree with is "Real evidence".
Taitertots
Apr 2013
#64
We live in the most peaceful era in human history, including before guns existed
Taitertots
Apr 2013
#94
Hilarious. Just claim that anything that disagrees with your ideology is just made up
Taitertots
Apr 2013
#103
All the world is now an NRAtalkingPoint (TM). If you don't agree with the data.
Eleanors38
Apr 2013
#91
Congratulations, you're the most perfect example of confirmation bias I've seen.
Donald Ian Rankin
Apr 2013
#114
If there was NO guns, the murder rate in the USA would be lower. No doubt. Guns.....
Logical
Apr 2013
#20
So you really think if there was no guns just as many murders would be carried out with knifes, etc?
Logical
Apr 2013
#27
Again, that's what those data show. Gun deaths would go way, way down, but not homicides.
Recursion
Apr 2013
#29
Yes, it does. Do you ever wonder why the peer reviewed research comes to the opposite conclusion
DanTex
Apr 2013
#26
I'm doing the G-8 and the G-20 right now (I've done them before, too) I'll post in a minute
Recursion
Apr 2013
#60
Another good group is OECD. The problem with G-20 is it includes places like China and Russia,
DanTex
Apr 2013
#68
Fot the top 30 in human development index, I was able to find data for 27 countries.
DanTex
Apr 2013
#81
So there's a statistically significant positive correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates
DanTex
Apr 2013
#84
Umm, yes I did. Unless my stats software is broken, or I entered the data wrong (a possibility),
DanTex
Apr 2013
#88
Who cares that the "homicide by firearm" rate goes down if the "homicide by any means" rate doesn't?
Recursion
Apr 2013
#34
He says he excluded the same countries for the same reasons. I suppose he could be lying
Recursion
Apr 2013
#45
Because there is no statistically significant effect of guns on non-gun homicide.
DanTex
Apr 2013
#46
Interesting data. Wish they could isolate crime rates amongst gun owners only.
geckosfeet
Apr 2013
#37
Even that's possibly confounded. Does owning a gun make you more likely to be killed...
Recursion
Apr 2013
#48
Seriously??! You're going to split hairs between guns with clips and assault rifles?
El Fuego
Apr 2013
#80
Ummm... yes. That's not "splitting hairs". Cho used handguns. Ordinary handguns
Recursion
Apr 2013
#82
Ah, the "people on the left." You're expressing aggravation with those "people on the left."
El Fuego
Apr 2013
#102
No "aggravation," just a little dismay. But you may not be on the left yourself, so...
Eleanors38
Apr 2013
#105
LOL. Oh, I get it. The guy who wrote this is a right-winger who wrote a book about
DanTex
Apr 2013
#44
Right, because a person with an agenda can't tweak a regression to get the result they want.
DanTex
Apr 2013
#52
So, yes, Hartsfield and Bezerow can both have done that. Like I said I'm running it for G-8 and G-20
Recursion
Apr 2013
#63
I have a hard time believing that the "success" rate for other weapons would be as high as guns. n-t
Logical
Apr 2013
#67
LOL, machine guns also, who cares. A handgun is a gun. I do not think as many murders would happen..
Logical
Apr 2013
#75
The increase in suicides when firearms are available is, however, basically undeniable
Recursion
Apr 2013
#74
The negative effect of the guns is partially mitigated by our standard of living.
lumberjack_jeff
Apr 2013
#112
LOL, people here react on emotion, this funny math thing will not persuade them
pediatricmedic
Apr 2013
#89
Well, so much for the hallowed position of math/science in some "progressive" circles.
Eleanors38
Apr 2013
#101
LOL. You guys crack me up with your pseudoscience. That's not a "Harvard study".
DanTex
Apr 2013
#121
Still waiting to hear a legal scholar who agrees with your "collective rights" theory.
former9thward
Apr 2013
#122