Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Post removed [View all]Emrys
(7,278 posts)6. This drum was being beaten a month or so ago, and has been since the war started
It's disappointing to see it being championed here.
A little reading beyond NBC (or even Tucker Carlson) may help illuminate you about some realities about Ukraine, not least the fact that there appears to have been no appetite among Ukrainians for concessions to Russia, which has shown itself utterly untrustworthy after past negotiations anyway. Conceding to Russia would open the way for new adventurism and a prolonged neo-imperialist drive further into Eastern Europe.
As for this:
We were told we had to support Ukraine because they represented "Democracy" and "Freedom." Yet Zelenskyy cancelled last month's parliamentary elections and now has cancelled next year's presidential election so he gets to stay in office until ... sometime. Weird kind of "Democracy," if you ask me.
Baloney. Here's a Foreign Policy article explaining why:
Wartime Elections in Ukraine Are Impossible
Voting in the middle of the Russian invasion is legally and practically unworkable.
Concern over the decision to postpone Ukraines elections has come from both Ukraines friends and foes. In а June 27 podcast episode, former Fox news pundit Tucker Carlson said sarcastically that democracy in Ukraine seems to be suspended by the worlds foremost democracy advocate himselffield marshal [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky.
On the other hand, PACE President Tiny Kox said that while he recognizes the enormity of the struggle Ukraine faces, the country must uphold its obligations under international agreements to hold elections. It is up to [Ukraine] how to solve this challenge, he told a Council of Europe summit in May, adding that there will be no complaints against Ukraine if the elections are not ideal. But if you do not hold elections, then everyone will have questions about you without elections, democracy is impossible.
Whether objections to the postponement of Ukraines elections come from a place of hostility or sympathy, they fail to understand that voting during this war would be legally, practically, and institutionally impossible. Ukraine is under martial law, with constant threat of Russian bombs and many of its people displaced. Postponing elections was not a function of any fear on Zelenskys part, since his approval ratings have soared during wartime. A country under a full-scale invasion and occupation is simply in no position to vote.
...
Article 83 of the Ukrainian Constitution states that if the term of the Verkhovna Rada expires under martial law, it shall automatically be extended until a new Rada is seated following the end of martial law. Article 19 of Ukraines martial law legislation specifically forbids conducting national elections. Thus, for Ukraine to conduct elections while under martial law would be a violation of legal norms that predate Zelensky and the full-scale Russian invasion.
Kox acknowledged this in a subsequent conversation with Olha Aivazovska, the head of Ukraines top election watchdog, stating that it is clear that [Ukraines] constitution does not allow you to organize elections when martial law is applicable.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-wartime-elections-russia-zelensky/
Voting in the middle of the Russian invasion is legally and practically unworkable.
Concern over the decision to postpone Ukraines elections has come from both Ukraines friends and foes. In а June 27 podcast episode, former Fox news pundit Tucker Carlson said sarcastically that democracy in Ukraine seems to be suspended by the worlds foremost democracy advocate himselffield marshal [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky.
On the other hand, PACE President Tiny Kox said that while he recognizes the enormity of the struggle Ukraine faces, the country must uphold its obligations under international agreements to hold elections. It is up to [Ukraine] how to solve this challenge, he told a Council of Europe summit in May, adding that there will be no complaints against Ukraine if the elections are not ideal. But if you do not hold elections, then everyone will have questions about you without elections, democracy is impossible.
Whether objections to the postponement of Ukraines elections come from a place of hostility or sympathy, they fail to understand that voting during this war would be legally, practically, and institutionally impossible. Ukraine is under martial law, with constant threat of Russian bombs and many of its people displaced. Postponing elections was not a function of any fear on Zelenskys part, since his approval ratings have soared during wartime. A country under a full-scale invasion and occupation is simply in no position to vote.
...
Article 83 of the Ukrainian Constitution states that if the term of the Verkhovna Rada expires under martial law, it shall automatically be extended until a new Rada is seated following the end of martial law. Article 19 of Ukraines martial law legislation specifically forbids conducting national elections. Thus, for Ukraine to conduct elections while under martial law would be a violation of legal norms that predate Zelensky and the full-scale Russian invasion.
Kox acknowledged this in a subsequent conversation with Olha Aivazovska, the head of Ukraines top election watchdog, stating that it is clear that [Ukraines] constitution does not allow you to organize elections when martial law is applicable.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-wartime-elections-russia-zelensky/
This constitutional obstacle to Ukrainian elections in wartime isn't news, it's been widespread knowledge at least since the war broke out.
Please stop spreading misinformation that serves no one except Putin.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
56 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
They'd probably prefer not to have themselves and their daughters raped by marauding Russian forces as well.
Emrys
Nov 2023
#17
Russia can't beat Ukraine & you think they want to take on 31 more countries at once? lol
EX500rider
Nov 2023
#26
"Only someone who doesn't really value human life and would rather see Ukraine be utterly destroyed"
Beastly Boy
Nov 2023
#44
I dont know, it was only about 20 months ago that Russia was massed just outside of Kyiv.
Eko
Nov 2023
#36
No, and your idea of peace is to allow the biggest bloodiest bully on the planet to take what he wants...
Hekate
Nov 2023
#52