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Emrys

(7,278 posts)
6. This drum was being beaten a month or so ago, and has been since the war started
Wed Nov 8, 2023, 09:29 PM
Nov 2023

It's disappointing to see it being championed here.

A little reading beyond NBC (or even Tucker Carlson) may help illuminate you about some realities about Ukraine, not least the fact that there appears to have been no appetite among Ukrainians for concessions to Russia, which has shown itself utterly untrustworthy after past negotiations anyway. Conceding to Russia would open the way for new adventurism and a prolonged neo-imperialist drive further into Eastern Europe.

As for this:

We were told we had to support Ukraine because they represented "Democracy" and "Freedom." Yet Zelenskyy cancelled last month's parliamentary elections and now has cancelled next year's presidential election so he gets to stay in office until ... sometime. Weird kind of "Democracy," if you ask me.


Baloney. Here's a Foreign Policy article explaining why:

Wartime Elections in Ukraine Are Impossible

Voting in the middle of the Russian invasion is legally and practically unworkable.

Concern over the decision to postpone Ukraine’s elections has come from both Ukraine’s friends and foes. In а June 27 podcast episode, former Fox news pundit Tucker Carlson said sarcastically that “democracy in Ukraine seems to be suspended by the world’s foremost democracy advocate himself—field marshal [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky.”

On the other hand, PACE President Tiny Kox said that while he recognizes the enormity of the struggle Ukraine faces, the country must uphold its obligations under international agreements to hold elections. “It is up to [Ukraine] how to solve this challenge,” he told a Council of Europe summit in May, adding that “there will be no complaints against Ukraine if the elections are not ideal. But if you do not hold elections, then everyone will have questions about you … without elections, democracy is impossible.”

Whether objections to the postponement of Ukraine’s elections come from a place of hostility or sympathy, they fail to understand that voting during this war would be legally, practically, and institutionally impossible. Ukraine is under martial law, with constant threat of Russian bombs and many of its people displaced. Postponing elections was not a function of any fear on Zelensky’s part, since his approval ratings have soared during wartime. A country under a full-scale invasion and occupation is simply in no position to vote.
...
Article 83 of the Ukrainian Constitution states that if the term of the Verkhovna Rada expires under martial law, it shall automatically be extended until a new Rada is seated following the end of martial law. Article 19 of Ukraine’s martial law legislation specifically forbids conducting national elections. Thus, for Ukraine to conduct elections while under martial law would be a violation of legal norms that predate Zelensky and the full-scale Russian invasion.

Kox acknowledged this in a subsequent conversation with Olha Aivazovska, the head of Ukraine’s top election watchdog, stating that “it is clear that [Ukraine’s] constitution does not allow you to organize elections when martial law is applicable.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/07/11/ukraine-democracy-wartime-elections-russia-zelensky/


This constitutional obstacle to Ukrainian elections in wartime isn't news, it's been widespread knowledge at least since the war broke out.

Please stop spreading misinformation that serves no one except Putin.
Post removed [View all] Post removed Nov 2023 OP
Ermm... it's Russia that needs to negotiate. ananda Nov 2023 #1
Russia has no problem fighting for 10+ more years. WarGamer Nov 2023 #3
People who know what they're talking about... have known this. WarGamer Nov 2023 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author BootinUp Nov 2023 #11
"A lot of people are saying ..." Emrys Nov 2023 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author BootinUp Nov 2023 #21
Wow... Think. Again. Nov 2023 #4
Cancelling elections, press gangs Seeking Serenity Nov 2023 #5
Please stop and educate yourself. n/t Emrys Nov 2023 #7
Wow. flying rabbit Nov 2023 #16
Saddam Hussein and his ruling party were very, very bad guys. Crunchy Frog Nov 2023 #42
The Ukrainian constitution doesn't allow elections during martial law. Tommy Carcetti Nov 2023 #51
The Kremlin is very good at pushing its propaganda narratives. Crunchy Frog Nov 2023 #39
This drum was being beaten a month or so ago, and has been since the war started Emrys Nov 2023 #6
Thank you..................... Lovie777 Nov 2023 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author BootinUp Nov 2023 #8
Somehow, I don't think Ukrainian women Seeking Serenity Nov 2023 #15
They'd probably prefer not to have themselves and their daughters raped by marauding Russian forces as well. Emrys Nov 2023 #17
A quarter of Ukraine's soldiers are women NickB79 Nov 2023 #19
You think they'll want to see the youthful flower of Ukrainian men Crunchy Frog Nov 2023 #45
The article seems slanted, but overall correct Lemonwurst Nov 2023 #9
We have been hearing this same thing since the war started. I doubt it. Bev54 Nov 2023 #10
Anyone who trusts Putin to keep his word is a moron NickB79 Nov 2023 #13
That's the posture of a madman Seeking Serenity Nov 2023 #20
Russia can't beat Ukraine & you think they want to take on 31 more countries at once? lol EX500rider Nov 2023 #26
Do you trust Putin to keep his word? NickB79 Nov 2023 #31
Sure thing Olga Lucky Luciano Nov 2023 #41
A good Democrat would never believe... yardwork Nov 2023 #43
"Only someone who doesn't really value human life and would rather see Ukraine be utterly destroyed" Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #44
On the contrary. The ONLY way to keep the peace Crunchy Frog Nov 2023 #48
So for Ukraine to join NATO would result in Ukraine being destroyed? DBoon Nov 2023 #55
Snopes: Did Zelenskyy Say There Would Be No Elections in Ukraine Until War Ends? sl8 Nov 2023 #18
Who declares martial law? Seeking Serenity Nov 2023 #22
According to the article, Zelensky declared martial law. sl8 Nov 2023 #25
No, see my reply below. n/t Emrys Nov 2023 #29
Ah, very good. Thanks for the correction. nt sl8 Nov 2023 #32
No problem at all. Emrys Nov 2023 #35
It's subject to repeated votes for renewal by the Ukrainian Parliament. Emrys Nov 2023 #28
It is a stalemate at best, also a quagmire for Putin. apnu Nov 2023 #23
The russian navy doesnt think there is a stalemate. Tomconroy Nov 2023 #24
Putin offers zero evidence he'd act in good faith. Torchlight Nov 2023 #27
If Ukraine cedes territory, here should be some of the terms to the RuZZians. roamer65 Nov 2023 #30
End the war and bring Ukraine into NATO since they won't be at war ripcord Nov 2023 #33
Maybe we could have not waited until the last possible moment Crunchy Frog Nov 2023 #34
I dont know, it was only about 20 months ago that Russia was massed just outside of Kyiv. Eko Nov 2023 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author BootinUp Nov 2023 #37
Also, what "peace" is realistically going to come from negotiations? Crunchy Frog Nov 2023 #38
The US and European officials had concerns 6 days after Putin invaded. Beastly Boy Nov 2023 #40
Please provide links from legitmate, reliable sources for niyad Nov 2023 #46
Somebody is channeling Neville Chamberlain Kaleva Nov 2023 #47
NO ... nt Raine Nov 2023 #49
How can there be a peaceful settlement after Bucha? After Mariupol? Tommy Carcetti Nov 2023 #50
No, and your idea of peace is to allow the biggest bloodiest bully on the planet to take what he wants... Hekate Nov 2023 #52
Implicit in your remark must be that Putin bronxiteforever Nov 2023 #53
Should the US tell Ukraine what of its citizens should be left in Putin's loving embrace? TomSlick Nov 2023 #54
If Russia is still in Ukraine, it is NOT time Stinky The Clown Nov 2023 #56
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