General Discussion

pnwmom

(108,978 posts) Tue May 3, 2022, 06:25 PM May 2022

Reminder: HRC lost the Electoral College by less than 100K votes spread over 3 states. [View all]

She won the popular vote by over 2 million.

There were enough 3rd party "progressives" and disenchanted Democrats to flip the election to Trump in all three states.

So many progressive voters decided to let the "perfect be the enemy of the good" that Trump won the Presidency.

I wonder who Hillary would have nominated to the Supreme Court.

212 replies

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Reminder: HRC lost the Electoral College by less than 100K votes spread over 3 states. [View all] pnwmom May 2022 OP

Seriously agree. Cut through Comey, Russia, Stein, etc., and those in party Hoyt May 2022 #1

Hillary would not have placed any judges mikeysnot May 2022 #2

This is the correct answer. NT mahatmakanejeeves May 2022 #4

No it is not the correct answer...just an excuse really. And there is no excuse IMHO. Demsrule86 May 2022 #120

Agree. Every person who helped elect tRump needs to admit Hortensis May 2022 #183

Excuses, excuses! demosincebirth May 2022 #7

He wouldn't have gotten away with that for her whole term. brush May 2022 #8

Check your timeline. mikeysnot May 2022 #10

Hillary would've been president from 2016-2020 if not for reasons already discussed. brush May 2022 #14

Even if he had gotten away with it, the Court would have no conservative majority. Beautiful Disaster May 2022 #11

If Hillary won in 2016, she likely loses in 2020 Polybius May 2022 #117

Incumbents rarely lose. Let's see, in 32 Herbert Hoover lost, in 1976 Jimmy Carter lost, Demsrule86 May 2022 #122

2016 was a Republican year (after 8 years of a Democrat) Polybius May 2022 #205

Even if he doesn't, there's not enough conservative justices to overturn Roe. Beautiful Disaster May 2022 #9

Nope mikeysnot May 2022 #12

Nope. Beautiful Disaster May 2022 #15

Let's be honest, if Clinton had become POTUS, the Repuke House would have impeached her within days DickKessler May 2022 #36

So what you are implying is that it was OK to not vote for Democratic nominee because Demsrule86 May 2022 #124

Or maybe inthewind21 May 2022 #130

Am I understanding this correctly? ShazzieB May 2022 #179

This whole discussion is a "what-if"-- about what would have happened with the SC DemocraticPatriot May 2022 #188

There's not a lot of people in this world I wish would drop dead. Initech May 2022 #20

This is the correct answer (confirmed by John McCain) budkin May 2022 #96

Ok...if you say so...whatever gets you through...what could be the end of our Republic Demsrule86 May 2022 #125

We might have taken the Senate...at the midterm or even during the election...so that is not Demsrule86 May 2022 #119

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #3

That's one of the most asinine statements Cha May 2022 #98

Amen...the excuses are truly pitiful. Demsrule86 May 2022 #128

I'll say inthewind21 May 2022 #132

That is true. What distubs me about this is that...you get the feeling that some have learned Demsrule86 May 2022 #178

Ugh, I agree with you, but name calling is no bueno. ShazzieB May 2022 #181

You are so fucking right! Progressives don't like to talk about those losses demosincebirth May 2022 #5

Women's rights are important Sympthsical May 2022 #6

You are assuming those tens of millions would have voted for a progressive. I'm not. pnwmom May 2022 #16

No candidate is owed anyone's vote. That's just reality. DickKessler May 2022 #31

And the reality is that those progressives who voted 3rd party decided to let the perfect pnwmom May 2022 #34

I don't actually disagree with you on that. DickKessler May 2022 #37

So you are saying that we don't have to vote for the Democratic nominee for President. Demsrule86 May 2022 #131

What does "have to" mean? This is a democracy, yes? DickKessler May 2022 #212

It's not about the candidate being owed a vote. It's about the country. yardwork May 2022 #182

bravo! sheshe2 May 2022 #189

You're right. It is about the country. Do you agree then, that RBG should have retired before 2015? DickKessler May 2022 #211

Except if we do not acknowledge the stupid of THEN, we will do the stupid again. LizBeth May 2022 #175

There's plenty of stupid to go around Sympthsical May 2022 #190

300K voters were turned away at the polls in Wisconsin alone for lacking proper ID Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #13

And yet the 3rd party progressives could have turned the election around DESPITE pnwmom May 2022 #17

I don't understand why liberals would rather blame the left than Republicans Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #25

The enemy isn't pretending to be anything but the enemy pnwmom May 2022 #27

If you want to win over progressive voters, give them a progressive candidate Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #28

Anyone who thinks HRC wasn't progressive is nuts. She wasn't center-right by any definition. pnwmom May 2022 #33

She said M4A would "never, ever happen" leftstreet May 2022 #35

I only blame "progressives" who failed to vote for the only Democrat running in November, pnwmom May 2022 #42

Yup. And most of them did it in supposed righteous zeal -- Hortensis May 2022 #110

Exactly LongtimeAZDem May 2022 #191

She very much was centre-right by the definition of the majority of the world Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #39

The WORLD wasn't voting in the US election, so the US electorate is the only one that mattered. n/t pnwmom May 2022 #44

Actual leftists would ALSO view her as centre-right. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #45

And those "actual leftists" who viewed her as center-right and therefore unworthy pnwmom May 2022 #46

Then maybe you should've nominated a candidate they could vote for Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #47

A candidate they could vote for would be one that millions of Democrats would be repulsed by. pnwmom May 2022 #48

Then stop complaining that you didn't get their votes, since you clearly don't want them? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #49

Honestly, the "issues" were trumped up by one losing campaign. Nixie May 2022 #82

Wealth inequality certainly is an issue Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #90

Bill Clinton did all that and balanced the budget. Nixie May 2022 #92

+1 betsuni May 2022 #106

They "could" have voted for the Democratic nominee mcar May 2022 #102

Given the choice between two candidates I find repugnant I might make the same choice. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #123

Anyone who professes to be left-leaning who finds a highly accomplished mcar May 2022 #126

American "liberals" are not left wing, at all? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #127

No inthewind21 May 2022 #139

Again, the sense of entitlement is staggering Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #141

I, for one, do indeed despise them more than the republicans. They knew what was at stake, LongtimeAZDem May 2022 #192

Mitch inthewind21 May 2022 #134

That's how electoral politics works? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #135

I view her as a centrist and I voted for her. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #138

Indeed inthewind21 May 2022 #140

We got Trump because some people saw her as a centrist and voted for her anyway? Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #142

The narratives that took hold during the 2016 general election campaign are stunning lapucelle May 2022 #203

And we need to win Wisconsin this year.....n/m BradAllison May 2022 #26

+1, democrats to this day don't understand how effective anti voter laws are uponit7771 May 2022 #112

Stein voters and voters stayed home were the margin of defeat LetMyPeopleVote May 2022 #18

Faulty logic - If Stein and Nader hadn't run, their supporters would've stayed home. TheRickles May 2022 #21

You are WRONG LetMyPeopleVote May 2022 #23

Congrats for totally demolishing my point with irrefutable logic. TheRickles May 2022 #24

Thank you for the laughs. You are always WRONG LetMyPeopleVote May 2022 #85

Gary Johnson's voters would have largely gone to Hillary. But that isn't the main issue. StevieM May 2022 #83

There were definitely broader slams on Democrats in general Nixie May 2022 #107

Lofty goals that can't be achieved as claimed are intensely imperfect, though. Hortensis May 2022 #19

If "ifs and buts were candies and nuts.... SergeStorms May 2022 #22

I believe Sheldon Cooper said it to Neil DeGrasse Tyson on the Big Bang Theory. (eom) StevieM May 2022 #86

I first heard it as a kid..... SergeStorms May 2022 #94

those states were packed with conservatives. Red state moderates VOTED FOR TRUMP, not progressives bigtree May 2022 #29

We could blame those voters. Or we could blame those who didn't vote for someone more "electable" DickKessler May 2022 #30

There was no one more electable than the person who won the primaries. pnwmom May 2022 #40

What about the current President? DickKessler May 2022 #41

Joe Biden didn't run. His heart wasn't in it, so soon after losing his son. nt pnwmom May 2022 #43

More people voted for Stein in the 3 states mcar May 2022 #32

Susan Sarandon edhopper May 2022 #38

She was hoping to bring our evil "establishment" down, so she may Hortensis May 2022 #109

She was under the delusion edhopper May 2022 #116

:) The usual. Extremist activists always need to think "the people" agree Hortensis May 2022 #144

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #50

Just the progressives who falsely proclaimed that HRC wasn't progressive pnwmom May 2022 #51

How exactly was she progressive? Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #52

How is giving a speech at Goldman Sachs and getting paid the usual amount betsuni May 2022 #54

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #55

Why? The last GS speech was by the Co-CEO of KKR, founder of the Asian American Foundation. betsuni May 2022 #57

Is he running for President? No? Then I don't care what he does. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #62

But he got paid for a speech, so ... betsuni May 2022 #63

He's an investment banker; that should be disqualifying (n/t) Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #65

Oh, like millionaires used to be disqualifying until they weren't. betsuni May 2022 #66

No, more like... Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #67

Should golden parachutes be disqualifying, then? Nixie May 2022 #73

Being paid a lot of money to give speeches by someone who hopes you'll act in their interest.... Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #75

So it's okay to take golden parachutes from an employer Nixie May 2022 #80

So inthewind21 May 2022 #148

I voted for Hillary in 2016. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #150

Being paid for doing a job is bad if Hillary. Becoming a millionaire by writing betsuni May 2022 #152

Being paid by people who hope to gain influence is definitely bad Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #155

What corruption? What influence? Name anything. Appearance? Name one real thing. betsuni May 2022 #161

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #162

Heh, the inevitable personal insult. What's wrong with Hillary? betsuni May 2022 #163

Not voting for Hillary isn't the same as preferring Trump. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #164

But why did Hillary "suck"? betsuni May 2022 #168

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #170

"sucking the teat"? Now you're just teasing me. betsuni May 2022 #174

Thank you. This insistence on clinging to personal insults has Nixie May 2022 #204

Some view lying about others so maliciously to be corrupt. Nixie May 2022 #72

Most people over the course of decades changed. I already explained to you that she did NOT pnwmom May 2022 #56

She voted for the AUMF; she could've voted no. She didn't vote no. Don't try to justify it. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #58

Boston Globe, 2016: HRC has run the most progressive presidential campaign in history of the US. pnwmom May 2022 #61

Thank you. betsuni May 2022 #60

did progressives make red state moderates vote for Trump? bigtree May 2022 #53

I don't know any Democratic progressives who hated Hillary and gave Trump the benefit of the doubt, pnwmom May 2022 #59

progressives hated on Hillary for speeches for money bigtree May 2022 #64

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #68

He was busy writing his book. betsuni May 2022 #70

Like that was more important than beating Trump. If he had won the nomination, pnwmom May 2022 #154

again, red state moderates actually voted for Trump bigtree May 2022 #71

And yet there were enough Jill Stein voters to have swung the election. Bernie might pnwmom May 2022 #157

Well, he actually came to Wisconsin unlike the actual candidate. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #136

Great inthewind21 May 2022 #151

Since you apparently missed my point. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #160

Hillary is too perfect to ever get any blame. It's all the fault of evil leftists and Bernie Bros. Spider Jerusalem May 2022 #166

You can't say that the Clinton campaign was poorly ran around here. Ace Rothstein May 2022 #171

So why didn't everyone vote for Hillary after Bernie went to Wisconsin? betsuni May 2022 #167

So candidates shouldn't spend money doing campaign visits? Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #180

The ones that actively attacked her were not Progressives. People like Jill Stein JI7 May 2022 #69

And opportunists like Bernie Sanders, who wasn't even a Democrat. Beacool May 2022 #77

yet he endorsed her for president bigtree May 2022 #79

What were all those folks treated to from a non-Democrat. The messaging that Democrats Nixie May 2022 #209

We should stop pretending these people care about liberal causes JI7 May 2022 #91

+1 betsuni May 2022 #105

+1 LizBeth May 2022 #176

Trump became president because 77,000 people voted for him over Hillary. Beacool May 2022 #74

Biden won by even less. Flip just 21,461 votes from blue to red, spread Celerity May 2022 #76

you blamed black people for her loss bigtree May 2022 #78

I only stated statistical facts, the 2016 race was so close that multiple things could have tipped Celerity May 2022 #81

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #87

again with false charges and also non sequiturs, with personal attacks added in Celerity May 2022 #97

More background on 2016 Celerity May 2022 #84

I've had enough of this bigtree May 2022 #88

Quit blaming black people. It's shameful and very tiresome Nixie May 2022 #89

That's a false charge, there are many reasons why Clinton lost, and I, unlike many, do not narrow Celerity May 2022 #93

Another deflection. Everyone knows about the Obama coalition, Nixie May 2022 #95

No. I am deflecting nothing, you are the one trying to muddy the waters. Celerity May 2022 #99

The deflection is the deliberate deception about how or Nixie May 2022 #100

No. Celerity May 2022 #101

"It's like 3 people shooting someone all at once, at the same time, fatal with all 3 combined..." Nixie May 2022 #103

utterly false framing and projection to try and insinuate something sinister into a simple analogy Celerity May 2022 #111

It was your own projection, not mine. You wrote it. Nixie May 2022 #118

I projected nothing, you are the one projecting with your repeated references and false Celerity May 2022 #129

They were your words, your analogy, your projection. Nixie May 2022 #137

No, you are falsely, outrageously trying to make a false connection to things that have nothing Celerity May 2022 #145

No. Your words are your words. It's just that simple. Nixie May 2022 #146

Stop harassing and slandering me. It is blatant cyber bullying. Celerity May 2022 #147

Your words, your analogy. Nixie May 2022 #149

Nothing superfluous, absolutely germane. You are falsely erecting a Potemkin village of a narrative Celerity May 2022 #169

I don't have to apologize for what you wrote. It's a completely irrational technique Nixie May 2022 #186

No, you can spin it all you want, but you are the one playing personal attack and invent a false Celerity May 2022 #193

+1 Celerity you are absolutely correct SunImp May 2022 #194

Can I summarize what I see from "childish" posters, as well? Nixie May 2022 #210

This is really over the top. It's very irrational. Nixie May 2022 #202

Post removed Post removed May 2022 #156

you apparently do not understand what spam is, nor can you compare slanderous personal attacks Celerity May 2022 #158

What do you call your attempts to get me to engage on a personal level with you? Nixie May 2022 #206

Will you stop inthewind21 May 2022 #153

I am not cutting and pasting, most of the text is my own original typing, if you do not want to Celerity May 2022 #159

You should take your own advice. If you don't want to read how someone responds to your own words, Nixie May 2022 #207

Yes, and it's obvious her links don't match how she summarizes them. She indicated she understands Nixie May 2022 #208

Thanks for this info. Clinton's loss was more complex than many want to see. For some it's all jalan48 May 2022 #108

even the scapegoat does not hold up, even if you use a very much extreme overestimate Celerity May 2022 #114

Revisionism is correct. Failure can then be blamed on someone else, the scapegoat. jalan48 May 2022 #115

I was fearful at the time, that AA turnout would drop significantly without Barack Obama DemocraticPatriot May 2022 #187

"decline in black turnout to voter suppression tactics " is more of a factor for black voter drop .. uponit7771 May 2022 #113

this was definitely the case in WI Celerity May 2022 #121

"though in PA and MI there were no new restrictive laws passed between 2012 and 2016. " BumRushDaShow May 2022 #195

I did not state that there were no restrictive laws in place. I only said that post 2012 election, Celerity May 2022 #196

But this is what you wrote BumRushDaShow May 2022 #197

I was referring to between the 2012 and 2016 elections, not the calendar years, meaning that both Celerity May 2022 #198

Understood BumRushDaShow May 2022 #199

As bad as the Rethugs are in the US House and US Senate (and they are shit bad) there are many Celerity May 2022 #200

I just posted in another thread that mentions some issues early on (2013) in Michigan BumRushDaShow May 2022 #201

Gary Johnson got three times as many votes as Stein 867-5309. May 2022 #104

I just love the "blame the left" posts. So productive and helpful. Cuthbert Allgood May 2022 #133

Any time there is a traumatic even they refight the 2016 primary all over again Doc Sportello May 2022 #165

Or we can just put our hands over our ears, do stupid all over again. Sarandon today is working LizBeth May 2022 #177

YES, BUT HER EMAILS!!! RedSpartan May 2022 #143

Another institution that has outlived its usefulness BlueIdaho May 2022 #172

I will not forgive, I will not forget. How many times were we told women issues were NOT LizBeth May 2022 #173

No one gets all the votes. 4.5 million for Johnson/Weld SYFROYH May 2022 #184

Four years later Biden flipped the those states known as the Blue Wall back. Autumn May 2022 #185