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Caliman73

(11,760 posts)
38. I think that the fact that support hangs on a "Slogan" is sad.
Wed Jun 10, 2020, 01:35 PM
Jun 2020

This has been a problem in my mind for awhile but this issue has brought the problem into clear relief. I had a similar reaction to the idea of "defund" the police, thinking, "We can't just take all police away!" Then I looked at what it actually means and I thought,

"Yes, it makes sense to reallocate funding that goes to more police and more weapons, and more punishment for crime, to social programs that have a proven record of reducing crime by addressing factors that facilitate the decision to commit crimes"

Then I thought, "Shit, that doesn't fit on a bumper sticker so people are going to misunderstand, not take the time to look at the issue, and they are going to attack it"

Then I thought, "Why?" Why is it that people need information dumbed down and put into catchy slogans? Are they stupid? Lazy? or more generously, Maybe they are overwhelmed and just trying to survive and don't have the time to look into things?

Then I thought, but some of these people know all about who got drafted to the Patriots this year and how their new defense will stack up against other teams in their division. They know about how the salary cap for their franchise of choice will affect their chances of going to the championship. Some of the people know all about the controversies in the lives of celebrities and upcoming projects and fashion statements, etc... which I guess is more fun than concentrating on whether it is better to continue funding and buying bigger guns and decommissioned Striker vehicles and MRAPs for police OR to invest in community services that deal with the factors that contribute to crime.

We have all been conditioned to believe that BAD people commit crime so they MUST be punished and we must be protected by police. The problem is that while many good people are police, their mission is NOT to protect us, but to enforce the laws. The further problem is that they appear AFTER crime has been committed. Sure, they patrol, but that is not their primary function. They Respond to calls when a crime has or may be occurring. I have had the fortune to work with very helpful law enforcement people. I have also had the experience of getting harassed by law enforcement for no apparent reason other than my appearance. People don't seem to want to believe that police would hassle people for no other reason than their appearance, or that they would deliberately use more force for said reason, or that they would cover up misconduct, or ... because we NEED them to protect us from the BAD people who commit crimes.

The problem is that crime is complicated. When a 7 year old is asked whether a man who steals medicine as the only way to prevent his child from dying, is doing something bad, they will almost always say yes, and that the man should be punished and put in jail. A 7 year old thinks in concrete terms because their brain is not fully developed. They do not have the ability to put themselves in the mindset of an otherwise honorable and law abiding person who is put into a "no win" situation, and has to choose the "lesser evil". They cannot consider whether it is moral for the drug company to price medication out of the reach of people thus putting them in that situation. No. Stealing is bad and must be punished. It seems that we may be stuck in that same mentality.

The slogan is bad because people can't or won't understand it. It is bad because people will deliberately misuse it to convince people who maybe think that police brutality is bad and we should maybe try alternatives to more police, more training, and other defuse concepts to stop a problem that is baked into our history and our national psyche? That is the problem? Bad slogan? Not, bad understanding?

I do not know how to solve the problem of the lack of critical thinking, but it is really a problem that we need to look into and try to solve. I will surely try to do my part in solving it.

I have a severe issue with people trying to tell black activists which words are acceptable SoonerPride Jun 2020 #1
I have heard so many reasons. qwlauren35 Jun 2020 #5
Exactly. Thank you. SoonerPride Jun 2020 #7
One Group RobinA Jun 2020 #25
The problem with "defund" is that it is a reactive term. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #2
"Rethink Police Budgets"? maxsolomon Jun 2020 #17
Not saying it has to be "rethink" Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #20
It is accurate, but feels milquetoast. maxsolomon Jun 2020 #28
Yes It Does Suggest A Solution RobinA Jun 2020 #27
Well its better than "defend the police" but thats about it. milestogo Jun 2020 #3
So far "defund" has had to be explained to everyone. And if you're explaining, you're losing. Gidney N Cloyd Jun 2020 #4
Nothing is ever good enough. SoonerPride Jun 2020 #6
But if you spend too much time getting defensive about your messaging... Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #9
Maybe if people would focus on the issue at hand instead of attacking word choices... SoonerPride Jun 2020 #10
Okay, I see we have a chicken and the egg thing going on here. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #15
Choosing the most effective words helps with that focus. Gidney N Cloyd Jun 2020 #16
and once again whites come to the rescue to tell blacks what messages are palatable to THEM. SoonerPride Jun 2020 #19
You again? I'm black and I think "defund the police" is the stupidest... brush Jun 2020 #29
I'm with Rep Clyburn on this one -- reform. PunkinPi Jun 2020 #8
Can't agree. qwlauren35 Jun 2020 #11
I agree with you. We have been "reforming" the police since the 60's and nothing has changed. cayugafalls Jun 2020 #21
I'm not saying defunding wouldn't occur within reform. PunkinPi Jun 2020 #26
+1 Gidney N Cloyd Jun 2020 #12
Why not "define and defend" the definition? cayugafalls Jun 2020 #13
"Defund the Police" is as poor a slogan as "Democratic Socialism" brooklynite Jun 2020 #14
Agreed 100%. It's red meat for trump to feed to voters... brush Jun 2020 #31
I'm thinking "Disband". rgbecker Jun 2020 #18
I like "abolish," myself -- I learned about police abolition from black women, and I follow their WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2020 #22
I am white and it's not my call Maeve Jun 2020 #23
You Have No Stake RobinA Jun 2020 #30
Of course I have a stake--that's not what I said Maeve Jun 2020 #37
It's a fine line between stupid and clever. Sneederbunk Jun 2020 #24
The response to this thread answers the question itself. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #32
Um... qwlauren35 Jun 2020 #33
I don't think the word "defund" is a black or white term. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2020 #34
Too many differering interpretations to be effective Zambero Jun 2020 #35
"Defund the police" is a Russian bot wedge used across platforms right now; so yeah, wrong choice. ancianita Jun 2020 #36
I think that the fact that support hangs on a "Slogan" is sad. Caliman73 Jun 2020 #38
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»"Defund" - such a poor ch...»Reply #38