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Nuggets

(525 posts)
21. And then there's this:
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 03:18 AM
Jul 2019

Yes, You Can Indict the President

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/opinion/indict-president-trial.html


One of the perplexing questions of constitutional law is what to do about a sitting president who is suspected of having committed a crime. This much is clear: A sitting president should not be required to submit to a criminal trial, an undertaking that would be incompatible with the duties of the nation’s chief executive.

That should not, however, preclude a grand jury from indicting a president when the facts and the law warrant, even if the trial itself has to be postponed until he or she is no longer in office.

An indictment in this context serves a critically important purpose: Without it, the usual five-year statute of limitations for most federal crimes would elapse, forever precluding a president from being held accountable for potentially serious crimes. Thus, a president should be indictable unless he agrees to waive any future defense that the statute of limitations expired during the president’s term.

There is nothing in the constitutional text or judicial precedent that provides for a categorical bar to the indictment of a sitting president. The closest the Supreme Court has come to addressing the question was in Clinton v. Jones in 1997, in which the issue was whether a president could delay until the end of his term a civil suit by a private individual. I argued Clinton v. Jones for the United States, urging the court to hold that a civil trial would unduly impair a president’s ability to carry out his duties. The court unanimously rejected that position.
In Clinton v. Jones the entire court agreed that the fact that a federal court’s exercising of its constitutional power to hear a case “may significantly burden the time and attention of the chief executive is not sufficient to establish a violation of the Constitution.” Mere indictment of a president would not meet the stringent standard in Clinton v. Jones for presidential immunity from ordinary legal processes.

An indictment would, of course, place a cloud over a presidency, even if all further proceedings were postponed. But in many such instances there will already be a cloud over the Oval Office. And a president has a uniquely powerful platform for publicly responding to charges.

No one should be above the law. Barring indictment could even provide a powerful incentive for presidents to seek a second term to insure that the time for all possible criminal charges elapsed while they were in office.

>snip<

Whether indicting a sitting president would facilitate or inhibit the pursuit of justice is a question calling not just for logic but for wisdom and judgment as well. The exercise of that judgment, however, should not be inhibited by an assumption that indictment is categorically barred by the Constitution.

In any event, before a prosecutor declines to indict a president, he should seek an agreement that the president will not subsequently seek to bar prosecution based on deadlines that expired while he was in office. The White House should not be a sanctuary from justice.




——-Walter Dellinger was an assistant attorney general and the head of the Office of Legal Counsel at the Department of Justice from 1993 to 1996 and was acting solicitor general from 1996 to 1997.




Well she is getting good at stamping out all of those wildfires that are popping up. CentralMass Jul 2019 #1
Will someone please tell me FirstLight Jul 2019 #2
+1 myohmy2 Jul 2019 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Jul 2019 #4
Will someone please tell me why alleged Democrats insist on bashing Democrats? Cary Jul 2019 #27
And you are the arbiter of what constitutes "bashing"? Vinnie From Indy Jul 2019 #51
What if I am? Cary Jul 2019 #84
Not bashing...just frustration on my part. FirstLight Jul 2019 #79
Yes, and it is not a reality show. Cary Jul 2019 #85
Because the Senate is controlled by Nuggets Jul 2019 #7
How can it be explained to you that we know the senate will not convict Trump standingtall Jul 2019 #9
So you support Trump getting away with all this and you want to help? Nuggets Jul 2019 #10
Not impeaching Trump is letting him get away with his crimes. standingtall Jul 2019 #11
Thus it is impeachment which is the political move because Nuggets Jul 2019 #12
Impeachment is a form of political justice standingtall Jul 2019 #13
THIS SunSeeker Jul 2019 #14
Pelosi and Schiff and the committees working on this disagree. Nuggets Jul 2019 #15
Ever occur to you maybe Pelosi and Schiff aren't always right? standingtall Jul 2019 #16
Sure Nuggets Jul 2019 #17
because we have no control over a criminal conviction standingtall Jul 2019 #19
And then there's this: Nuggets Jul 2019 #21
True nothing in the constution barring a sitting President from being indicted,but guess standingtall Jul 2019 #23
This AG has the discretion as to whether or not the DOJ will indict. He will not. ehrnst Jul 2019 #50
There is zero chance of taking back the senate without impeaching Trump standingtall Jul 2019 #52
This should be its own OP renate Jul 2019 #78
+1000. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #26
False dillema AND attacking a straw man. ehrnst Jul 2019 #49
Jerry Nadler and Maxine Waters standingtall Jul 2019 #53
So? ehrnst Jul 2019 #66
So why don't we impeach Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh ASAP as well? ehrnst Jul 2019 #48
According to this logic we should've never fought Kavanaughs nomination standingtall Jul 2019 #60
That's a big straw man you're attacking there. ehrnst Jul 2019 #62
There is no evidence that impeaching Trump will hurt us politically standingtall Jul 2019 #63
Proving a negative fallacy.... ehrnst Jul 2019 #65
You have evidence that Heidi would've won if it were not for Kavanaugh? standingtall Jul 2019 #70
Still avoiding the question.... ehrnst Jul 2019 #80
also Mitch McConnell katmondoo Jul 2019 #77
Impeachment isn't a criminal proceeding. It's a political one. It will do zero about his crimes. ehrnst Jul 2019 #25
I never said impeachment was a political proceeding you must be confusing me with someone else standingtall Jul 2019 #55
"letting him get away with his crimes." ehrnst Jul 2019 #56
Not impeaching Trump is letting him get away with crimes standingtall Jul 2019 #58
How does it 'stop' him? ehrnst Jul 2019 #59
it is a form of political justice the founders of our country and the krafters of our constitution standingtall Jul 2019 #61
So again... why aren't you demanding the impeachment of Thomas and Kavanaugh ASAP ehrnst Jul 2019 #67
why are you deflicting standingtall Jul 2019 #69
Still avoiding telling me if you support impeaching Kavanaugh and Thomas ASAP? ehrnst Jul 2019 #72
He's declaring victory this morning. Nancy needs to stop giving him ammunition to use Autumn Jul 2019 #54
FFS, he does that whatever she says or doesn't say... ehrnst Jul 2019 #68
Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #22
It's likely math..she can count votes... AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #75
Wondering, Dan Jul 2019 #5
Right? FirstLight Jul 2019 #8
There is some rumbling on twitter about what a GREAT speaker Adam Schiff would be.... Grasswire2 Jul 2019 #6
I said this yesterday to my husband Sunsky Jul 2019 #20
I have thought that for a long time Skittles Jul 2019 #24
So he supports impeachment at this time? MrsCoffee Jul 2019 #30
If his fellow Dems in the House think so, and he's interested, they'll select him. ehrnst Jul 2019 #41
I wonder, then, how the "Schiff for Speaker" brigade will react to this: StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #71
Not sure premature equals rebuff, but, politico needs their clicks. Hugin Jul 2019 #18
Exactly. Exiting rabbit hole. (nt) klook Jul 2019 #34
Reality. SouthernProgressive Jul 2019 #28
Nothing major is going happen until after Labor Day, IMHO DonaldsRump Jul 2019 #29
Agree DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #33
Just to add, the Nixon case is far more relevant DonaldsRump Jul 2019 #36
The Nixon case is not really relevant. former9thward Jul 2019 #47
Beg to differ. DonaldsRump Jul 2019 #81
Well said, thank you DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #83
You are basically saying the House investigators can find more than Mueller. former9thward Jul 2019 #86
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. DonaldsRump Jul 2019 #88
It occurred to me that there's a good reason why impeachment has not yet started DonaldsRump Jul 2019 #89
FWIW, I've had the same thought. MFGsunny Jul 2019 #92
You didn't listen to the beginning of the afternoon session. former9thward Jul 2019 #90
Thank you for letting me know about what I did yesterday! DonaldsRump Jul 2019 #94
Impeachment is not going to happen ! stonecutter357 Jul 2019 #31
Characterizing the Mueller hearing as a 'flop' is a right wing talking point Farmer-Rick Jul 2019 #32
This story is bullshit StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #35
Yesterday when committee members were interviewed on DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #37
Thank you StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #40
When Heilman appears, he always got his phone or laptop DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #42
I should have been clearer. He said he spoke to unnamed Democratic Members StarfishSaver Jul 2019 #44
My $s on Heilman exaggerating DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #45
I have to absolutely agree with this bluestarone Jul 2019 #39
The Senate will acquit Trump from all impeachment charges. Then it's completely over. WhoWoodaKnew Jul 2019 #38
Once hearings start, it is completely unpredictable what DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #43
Nah. Republicans have shown they'll protect Trump no matter what. WhoWoodaKnew Jul 2019 #46
Nixon was no different, his "southern strategy" DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #82
Richard Nixon was nowhere near as savvy as Trump regarding conning people. WhoWoodaKnew Jul 2019 #87
Nixon was plenty savvy and his chief of staff, Haldeman, DeminPennswoods Jul 2019 #91
Yeah, I'm totally disagreeing with that. WhoWoodaKnew Jul 2019 #93
Mueller didn't "flop" Blue_Tires Jul 2019 #57
Politico was started by Bush Crime Family chum. Kid Berwyn Jul 2019 #64
are you aware Politico is funded by right-wingers? Anything you read there should be taken emulatorloo Jul 2019 #73
FFS, people haven't even digested the Mueller testimony yet! Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2019 #74
Politico awesomerwb1 Jul 2019 #76
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