General Discussion

treestar

(82,383 posts)

121. He is having it both ways

Fri Apr 6, 2018, 04:16 PM

Apr 2018

He caucuses with the party and is a long term member entitled to criticize. But he is not a member and is independent. He uses the party infrastructure to run for President, but his supporters (haven't heard him do it) demand changes in that infrastructure to meet their expectations and a few even claim it was "stolen" from him.

He mostly agrees with the party? What does he agree on? He seems to think it an unmitigated disaster.

LOL the party is supposed to be grateful? How would he have gotten more votes as a Green Party candidate than Jill Stein did? He would not have had the exposure of debating Hillary, as Jill did not.

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Joy Reid: For the record, Barack Obama is quite a bit more than just a charismatic leader. [View all] pnwmom Apr 2018 OP

Best president of my lifetime by a mile BannonsLiver Apr 2018 #1

What about Bill Clinton? oberliner Apr 2018 #70

Born in 1971 BannonsLiver Apr 2018 #71

Which one was your favorite? NCTraveler Apr 2018 #76

Bill Clinton, for sure oberliner Apr 2018 #89

The most peaceful and prosperous 8 years in generations. ChiTownDenny Apr 2018 #134

I was born in 1958 mcar Apr 2018 #147

What tips the scales for you for Obama over Clinton? oberliner Apr 2018 #152

8 years scandal free, for one mcar Apr 2018 #156

Bill Clinton was an excellent president but he was unable to get healthcare and President Obama Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #174

Not for lack of trying oberliner Apr 2018 #186

I love them both but I give Pres. Obama the top spot myself...but both were great. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #224

Obama faced unprecedented obstruction and hate, even worse than what Clinton did Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #226

Ditto here ailsagirl Apr 2018 #105

He is a nerdy policy wonk JI7 Apr 2018 #2

It's like he only remembers 2008 campaign Obama, not President Obama. betsuni Apr 2018 #27

or Senator Obama JI7 Apr 2018 #51

Sanders doesn't strike me as a very observant person. betsuni Apr 2018 #58

President Obama was a great POTUS Gothmog Apr 2018 #74

Let the Bernie bashing begin!!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #3

Let the vetting begin... revmclaren Apr 2018 #5

This! mcar Apr 2018 #67

This. Thank you for rightfulling defining it. Nt NCTraveler Apr 2018 #77

This +++++. nt jrthin Apr 2018 #104

Yes indeed. nt SunSeeker Apr 2018 #122

If he would stop saying dumb stuff, people would not call him out for saying dumb stuff emulatorloo Apr 2018 #6

If he is the nominee, the crap that will be dug up by the Trump/Russia/CA machine will tank him meadowlark5 Apr 2018 #11

And there's a reason he didn't release any full tax returns -- and it's not because pnwmom Apr 2018 #14

Exactly. SunSeeker Apr 2018 #123

Elections are run by states..they can put any rules in place they choose. It is not a constitutional Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #175

Agree... 5 years seems reasonable to me. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #194

I think it is reasonable too. People should have all the information before candidates are nominated Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #221

This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Apr 2018 #135

He's not going to get the nomination. n/t Lil Missy Apr 2018 #171

No one should be in a primary or caucus unless they first release their tax returns. pnwmom Apr 2018 #179

I agree about candidates releasing tax returns, but how would that necessarily InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #196

This Hekate Apr 2018 #12

... SidDithers Apr 2018 #7

.. Cha Apr 2018 #18

... treestar Apr 2018 #88

Oh, right. Bernie should be able to bash Obama and other Dems whenever he feels like it pnwmom Apr 2018 #8

Right, and Obama walks on water and no one should question that whathehell Apr 2018 #28

LOL, its more that Bernie walks on water and no one should R B Garr Apr 2018 #60

"wildly popular ex President" sheshe2 Apr 2018 #82

Hi sheshe! We were lucky to have him. R B Garr Apr 2018 #85

Agree with you there. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #197

...... R B Garr Apr 2018 #214

Um, no.. whathehell Apr 2018 #86

That chain of posts was about bashing. It wasn't about elections. R B Garr Apr 2018 #155

Please -- He did not "denigrate" Obama -- A lack of effusiveness whathehell Apr 2018 #222

Wow, how completely out of touch! Embarrassing. R B Garr Apr 2018 #243

What's "embarrassing" is your refusal to characterize my comments whathehell Apr 2018 #252

Awwww. R B Garr Apr 2018 #290

Well said. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #264

Thank you. n/t whathehell Apr 2018 #279

There were more than African Americans that were offended by Bernie's remarks. nt TexasTowelie Apr 2018 #275

Did someone say otherwise? whathehell Apr 2018 #278

My apologies. TexasTowelie Apr 2018 #281

Apology accepted, and thanks.. whathehell Apr 2018 #282

I am offended LiberalBrooke Apr 2018 #289

Only a self-promoting politician would go to a commemoration marking the death pnwmom Apr 2018 #101

Gee. Who knew being called "brilliant" and a "great candidate" whathehell Apr 2018 #119

Calling him an extraordinary "candidate" without a word about his ACHIEVEMENTS pnwmom Apr 2018 #120

Calling someone "brilliant," is not faint praise in my opinion whathehell Apr 2018 #188

Why didn't he call him a great president? lunamagica Apr 2018 #128

Ummm... druidity33 Apr 2018 #140

Then why mention him at all? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #246

Maybe he thought he was more "good" than "great" whathehell Apr 2018 #187

Is that why he wanted Obama primaried? Because he thought he was a good president? MrsCoffee Apr 2018 #195

No, I think it was when Obama offered to give away Social Security whathehell Apr 2018 #208

Obama offered to "give away" SS? mcar Apr 2018 #274

He offered to "trade away" Social Security for whathehell Apr 2018 #277

But you said "give away." betsuni Apr 2018 #280

When did that happen? betsuni Apr 2018 #276

Come on. LSFL Apr 2018 #189

'"Come on' nothing.. whathehell Apr 2018 #191

Putting words in people's mouths is a favorite pastime around here. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #198

It's important to call it out when you see it. n/t whathehell Apr 2018 #202

Abso-fuckin-lutely!! And I do call it out most days... just tiring sometimes. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #204

Yes, and that's good. n/t whathehell Apr 2018 #209

Well, you don't have to do that. betsuni Apr 2018 #205

Couldn't agree more. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #207

Bashing isn't questioning uponit7771 Apr 2018 #131

No, and criticizing isn't necessarily "bashing" either. n/t whathehell Apr 2018 #183

Absolutely, Democrats should not bash Pres. Obama...and independents sure as hell Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #176

Questioning or criticizing is not "bashing" whathehell Apr 2018 #182

It is bashing. When you call the party a 'failure' and make a dog whistle remark about President Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #225

Sorry, I simply don't agree, and no number of assertios to the contrary whathehell Apr 2018 #228

Bernie is the Sacred Cow treestar Apr 2018 #90

Hardly, but Bernie is extremely popular & deserves at least a modicum of respect. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #97

President Obama deserves more respect from Bernie Sanders than to have been pnwmom Apr 2018 #102

IMO it is racially based to ASSUME Sanders gave more weight to Obama's part in the decline of votes LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #110

I'm not assuming anything about Bernie's motives. I'm reacting to what he SAID. pnwmom Apr 2018 #112

Bernie should be included in the blame too treestar Apr 2018 #116

That's a reach LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #117

He is having it both ways treestar Apr 2018 #121

He had higher approval ratings than both Hillary and Donald LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #126

He was unvetted - no one knew anything about him because he was ignored by MSM and opposition resear meadowlark5 Apr 2018 #229

Hillary was different because they had years, decades, of conditioning their flock against her LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #233

I still don't think he was talked about enough or in depth enough by anyone but that will be meadowlark5 Apr 2018 #235

You think they'd have to scramble? That they don't already have the dirt? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #238

Yes, I'm sure they did but where was the bite? LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #244

You think the only thing that would hurt him was to be called a "Socialist?" EffieBlack Apr 2018 #245

So....tell me what else? LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #247

Wow. Ok EffieBlack Apr 2018 #248

'Unvetted"?...He was, and is, the US Senator from Vermont whathehell Apr 2018 #283

He was unvetted EffieBlack Apr 2018 #285

By what standard?. .Simply asserting something doesn't make it true. whathehell Apr 2018 #288

Yes it does meadowlark5 Apr 2018 #291

Huh?...Yes what does?..Are you claiming that simply saying whathehell Apr 2018 #293

You were saying, at least the way I understand it, is we are saying he's unvetted meadowlark5 Apr 2018 #294

Decades in the Senate, sounds establishment. betsuni Apr 2018 #287

If Bernie True Blue American Apr 2018 #172

Why cannot you and others just accept him as the exception to the rule? LiberalLovinLug Apr 2018 #234

You answered your own question True Blue American Apr 2018 #237

If a politician is still a "radical" after 30 years, he's doing something wrong EffieBlack Apr 2018 #239

So is the Democratic party and its candidates treestar Apr 2018 #114

Nah.. whathehell Apr 2018 #216

People tend to see what they expect treestar Apr 2018 #219

The criticism of Obama was directed toward a couple of his policy whathehell Apr 2018 #220

Obama was accused of spinelessness, etc. treestar Apr 2018 #230

Again, I never heard the word "spineless", certainly not from whathehell Apr 2018 #254

He was CONSTANTLY smeared, even by progressives EffieBlack Apr 2018 #240

I must be getting my news from different sources, then, whathehell Apr 2018 #253

Yes, you must be. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #255

I guess so..I saw people on DU get frustrated, even angry with him but, but whathehell Apr 2018 #256

No, they weren't EffieBlack Apr 2018 #257

He was regularly called a Trojan Horse. betsuni Apr 2018 #258

Except Bernie didn't bash Obama... so bashing Bernie incessantly is completely unjustified. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #96

Yes he did. Obama was the leader of the Democrats for 8 of the 15 years pnwmom Apr 2018 #166

Democratic failure? Musta missed that. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #167

Sanders' attacks on President Obama are a great reason to not support him Gothmog Apr 2018 #75

Okay, that was funny!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #98

We will see-Sanders has alienated a very large segment of the base Gothmog Apr 2018 #109

That is unforgivable! mcar Apr 2018 #148

The delegate who was my "whip" now works for the state party Gothmog Apr 2018 #151

Who boos John Lewis? ellie Apr 2018 #157

It happened a couple of times at the Democratic National Convention Gothmog Apr 2018 #163

Unforgivable. betsuni Apr 2018 #161

That was sickening. True Blue American Apr 2018 #173

For me: another. NurseJackie Apr 2018 #212

Where are Bernie's tax returns? yardwork Apr 2018 #103

Good question Gothmog Apr 2018 #164

What Bernie said was pretty messed up in context uponit7771 Apr 2018 #130

OK. Lil Missy Apr 2018 #170

That phrase has become much like the phrase, "Fake news!" yelled whenever Squinch Apr 2018 #284

You are being DIVISIVE is also a new version of Fake News EffieBlack Apr 2018 #286

DU rec... SidDithers Apr 2018 #4

I think that tenth place, give or take, is a pretty accurate assessment... First Speaker Apr 2018 #9

Thanks to Obama, the country never fell as far as it did in the years before FDR, pnwmom Apr 2018 #10

No doubt! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #42

President Obama did a lot more than bringing Cha Apr 2018 #29

1,2,3 True Blue American Apr 2018 #113

KnR for Joy Reid Hekate Apr 2018 #13

For the record, some ex-Democrat didn't say Obama wasn't more than just a charasmatic leader. progressoid Apr 2018 #15

His words were very carefully chosen -- and very dismissive of the President's accomplishments. pnwmom Apr 2018 #17

"he was obviously an extraordinary candidate and a brilliant guy" progressoid Apr 2018 #20

Saying he was an extraordinary "candidate" was a backhanded insult. pnwmom Apr 2018 #23

And he didn't say it WAS Obama's fault. progressoid Apr 2018 #26

The way he juxtaposed his comments about the failure of the party and Obama as a "candidate" pnwmom Apr 2018 #32

Did you ever consider the possibility whathehell Apr 2018 #38

Doesn't "suggest" anything. It's clear as hell & shameful some here wilfully ignore plain english. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #43

I agree whathehell Apr 2018 #45

The 15 years included Obama's 8, and Obama was the leader of the party. pnwmom Apr 2018 #48

The party is more than the presidency whathehell Apr 2018 #49

He isn't racist. He views everything through a class/income prism pnwmom Apr 2018 #50

I'm glad you concede that, at least whathehell Apr 2018 #53

Neither you nor Bernie seem to understand the issue that many minority voters have pnwmom Apr 2018 #169

Neither you nor many minority voters here seem to understand whathehell Apr 2018 #184

Guess we'll find out. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #168

Maybe if this was a one off. MrsCoffee Apr 2018 #64

Precisely! Thanks for pointing that out. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #41

No, he did not.. whathehell Apr 2018 #55

Is calling him a "brilliant guy" an insult, too? whathehell Apr 2018 #31

He's a brilliant guy. So what. Bernie was careful not to use any words that praised pnwmom Apr 2018 #36

So being called "brilliant" is chump change in your view? whathehell Apr 2018 #44

Obama was President just a year and a half ago. And Bernie was there to commemorate pnwmom Apr 2018 #46

Apparently so! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #193

Yep, it seems up is down and down is up here at times. whathehell Apr 2018 #199

IKR!! What.The.Hell whathehell?! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #201

Saying he was an extraordinary candidate NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #93

Not only about what Bernie said but now kacekwl Apr 2018 #218

By saying he was an extraordinary candidate, but not saying how he was as a president NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #63

Obama served for eight, not fifteen years whathehell Apr 2018 #34

I've seen so many in the POC community Cha Apr 2018 #19

No, you are not alone Cha. smirkymonkey Apr 2018 #79

Hey smirky! Cha Apr 2018 #141

For sure, Cha True Blue American Apr 2018 #115

Mahalo, True Blue American! Cha Apr 2018 #142

Cha True Blue American Apr 2018 #145

Never let the facts get in the way of a good Bernie bashing!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #25

The reality is.. I listen to what the POC have Cha Apr 2018 #30

wow, yeah? All of them? I'm sure they all have the same thing to say about it. Or maybe you JCanete Apr 2018 #57

Lol! whathehell Apr 2018 #35

Don't see how that contributes to party unity... we need to come together against our common enemy! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #37

It doesnt, of course.. whathehell Apr 2018 #39

Shortsighted? Or something else? InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #40

I don't know.. whathehell Apr 2018 #56

Yet it was Bernie attacking Democrats and Obama, so turn your question around. R B Garr Apr 2018 #73

Yeah, tell that to BS. He's the one who went down Jackson, Mississippi Cha Apr 2018 #52

I respect and agree with your last two points... that's fair. I would only point out InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #59

Did any of us go to an MLK event and then criticize the first Black president and the Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #177

When did Bernie call the Democratic Party a failure? InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #190

This is the part...there is a transcript. I just quoted from an article. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #223

Common Dems, gimme a quote from BERNIE, not from an article. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #242

It is Bernie's words...it is on the video you know. He did say it. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #251

Nope, sorry, Bernie did not say the Democratic Party has been a failure... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #259

He thinks the Democratic Party is a failure. betsuni Apr 2018 #261

This is bizarre. Do some people not know how quotes work? betsuni Apr 2018 #260

Apparently not. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #262

The words in quotation are the same as the spoken words on tape. betsuni Apr 2018 #265

Bernie: "The business model, if you like, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has betsuni Apr 2018 #266

That's the money quote... which was followed by significant audience APPLAUSE IN AGREEMENT... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #267

So you admit the quote is real! betsuni Apr 2018 #268

Obviously, so why change the wording from "business model" to "Democratic Party" is a failure? InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #269

"The business model ... of the Democratic Party ... has been a failure." betsuni Apr 2018 #271

But if you watch this snort Apr 2018 #92

Not really ...not at the moment. I watched the entire thing and got so angry I need to take a walk Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #178

I am happy to provide murielm99 Apr 2018 #16

I'm so glad you posted this from Joy Reid, Cha Apr 2018 #21

Instances like these make me wish we had a solid pick for 2020 ProudLib72 Apr 2018 #22

His followers would just howl about a coronation KitSileya Apr 2018 #33

Yes NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #65

Of course they have ProudLib72 Apr 2018 #95

K&R betsuni Apr 2018 #24

Odd... Mike Nelson Apr 2018 #47

For the record, it took Joy Reid longer to jump on this than I would have expected. Yay Joy, JCanete Apr 2018 #54

... LexVegas Apr 2018 #61

There wasn't a "but" in his statement !?!? Yaw acK like folk caint hear !!!!!! uponit7771 Apr 2018 #133

Love Joy, but lost a little respect for her over this obvious fabrication. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #263

What did she "fabricate?" EffieBlack Apr 2018 #270

The gaslights are on full blast in here. betsuni Apr 2018 #272

any way you look at it, its a clumsy politiical move drray23 Apr 2018 #62

no, not really, anyway I look at it is not anyway you look at it, and some people were guaranteed, JCanete Apr 2018 #91

? Skittles Apr 2018 #136

That is my impression of Joy Reid and her reception of Sanders onto the stage in the first place. JCanete Apr 2018 #137

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight Skittles Apr 2018 #138

The same way you are looking at it with the Bernie-support frame treestar Apr 2018 #231

That is true, based upon my opinion of her. JCanete Apr 2018 #236

And thats the best possible spin which would be a pathetic display of political stevenleser Apr 2018 #217

Best president of my lifetime mcar Apr 2018 #66

Good thing it was also pointed out that he was extraordinary and brilliant. n/t TCJ70 Apr 2018 #68

The Pearl Clutching Is Getting Old ProfessorGAC Apr 2018 #69

I agree. Bernie needs to stop clutching his pearls. nt pnwmom Apr 2018 #81

Whooosh! (nt) ProfessorGAC Apr 2018 #108

I miss having a real POTUS Gothmog Apr 2018 #72

Thank you, pnwmom saidsimplesimon Apr 2018 #78

K&R smirkymonkey Apr 2018 #80

Joy works for Comcast, #31 on the Fortune 500. I'm sure Comcast loves the big tax break jalan48 Apr 2018 #83

Oh the old.. trying to kill the messenger Cha Apr 2018 #154

LOL CorPoratioNz! R B Garr Apr 2018 #162

... NurseJackie Apr 2018 #206

OMG #31 on the Fortune 500. This changes everything. betsuni Apr 2018 #213

Thank you to Joy Reid. sheshe2 Apr 2018 #84

Yeah for Joy Reid Gothmog Apr 2018 #87

I feel like this OP has been taken over by negatives and allegations and repeats erronis Apr 2018 #94

The piling on does seem a bit over the top. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #99

Hang in there bud.... HenryWallace Apr 2018 #139

Good advice... thanks Henry! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #143

The whole package The Mouth Apr 2018 #100

I never found Obama charismatic. ananda Apr 2018 #106

Agreed. MariaCSR Apr 2018 #107

And to me that calmness, thoughtfulness is what i found appealing JI7 Apr 2018 #127

Thank you !!! I find him an inspiring and measured more than anything uponit7771 Apr 2018 #132

You've got a point treestar Apr 2018 #232

K&R ismnotwasm Apr 2018 #111

Joy is so smart, which is why we almost always agree. Tarheel_Dem Apr 2018 #118

K & R & bookmarked! SunSeeker Apr 2018 #124

Of COURSE he is! BobTheSubgenius Apr 2018 #125

K&R Scurrilous Apr 2018 #129

That momentary Democrat Progressive dog Apr 2018 #144

Joy Reid was a momentary Democrat? David__77 Apr 2018 #159

The momentary Democrat Progressive dog Apr 2018 #292

Neoliberal Billsmile Apr 2018 #146

Applies to whom? mcar Apr 2018 #149

Nope, it doesn't apply. Neoliberalism is a belief in a particular kind of economics. stevenleser Apr 2018 #150

+1. /t pnwmom Apr 2018 #165

And by this century's standards, very conservative. Hortensis Apr 2018 #227

You have no idea what you're Cha Apr 2018 #153

Clearly. Not an iota. Nary a whit. NurseJackie Apr 2018 #203

the world is full of them.. Cha Apr 2018 #249

Some may be triggered by that word. David__77 Apr 2018 #158

If triggered means knowing the meaning and that its use was incorrect stevenleser Apr 2018 #215

Jimmy Carter is a decent man but was not a good president and lost to Reagan. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #180

LOL NEOLIBERAL. betsuni Apr 2018 #211

I think many here shared in joy when he was elected in 2008. David__77 Apr 2018 #160

Don't use President Obama to refight the 2016 primary. yardwork Apr 2018 #181

Details, details!! Okay, back to bashin the #1 Democratic presidential hopeful for 2020!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2018 #192

... NurseJackie Apr 2018 #200

#2 hopeful stevenleser Apr 2018 #295

For the record, most of us know that. n/t whathehell Apr 2018 #185

AMJOY will be on soon Gothmog Apr 2018 #210

Joy used to say similar stuff about Hillary when she was running against Obama Quixote1818 Apr 2018 #241

Who's running against Obama now? NurseJackie Apr 2018 #250

Joy has a great show today Gothmog Apr 2018 #273