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freshwest

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Member since: Fri Dec 10, 2010, 11:36 PM
Number of posts: 53,661

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How? It's called privatization. The information is proprietary and not public for all intents. Small

government shills push the mantra 'government should be run like a business because it's more efficient.'

First, government and its budges are moral agents to protect equality and help everyone, not just the profiteer. Businesses are about distributing the wealth created by their employees to their boss. It is not about rights or equality or human needs or anything else. It's about profits. Period.

The efficiency they claim to be able to create, is done by a profit and loss sheet way of accounting. In that way of thinking, the elderly, poor, disabled or otherwise vulnerable are not profitable. They should be eliminated from the ledger. If they have to die to get off the books, fine. A person's value or the value of any living thing, or the world that supports us all, is measured in terms of profit.

A book by a sheep herder, called 'A Shepherd Looks At The 23rd Psalm' has a comparison that may ring true here. He describes what he did a sheep herder who kept his flock healthy in order to gather their fleece. It entailed a lot more work than I imagined, keeping after their daily activities so they did not accidentally kill themselves, had the right food to keep them healthy, and protected them from predators.

Think about that analogy in terms of government for a moment. He only wanted the fleece and let the sheep do what they pleased. They were allowed to 'rest in green pastures and lay beside the still waters,' to enjoy their lives.

In contrast, he described his neighbor, who raised sheep for meat, that is slaughter.Those sheep had lousy pasture and said he saw them gather at the fence, looking with longing at the pasture he grew for his flock.

They were not given any of the healthy feed or the medical care he gave his sheep, relieving them of parasites, and their fur was matted and filthy, their forage just enough to keep them alive. If they died from lack of care, they would still satisfy his intent, as they were all to end up as mutton anyway.

The sheep herder being of a religious bent, saw this in terms of a parable. The Good Shepherd is the name for Jesus. Whether he was telling the truth about all this, IDK. But by the terms he used for the man who raised mutton were not generous, saying that he was into weighing the their flesh for profit.

This is the difference in forms of government, as well. As far as the GOP is concerned, many people in this nation and world do not yield them profit, thus they should be put off the Earth, essentially. All of their philosophy points to this.

And back to the defense industry. It claims that they are hired by the people to protect them from this or that, which since WW2 has not been the case. And they are killing the public with their greed. No efficiency of any kind is being done by them, unless Reagan's plan of running up the bill for defense to END social spending is called efficiency. Of the worst kind, because it will kill people they consider to be of no worth.

It's not really any different than what the Nazis did in terms of efficiency. They worked people to death, literally. No health care, minimum housing, clothing and food, no respect for the condition, and most certainly no plan for retirement or a pension, huh?

They push privatization because it's better for them and not because it's a good deal for the tax payer. And we cannot forget that the private sector has made fortunes off the defense industry. They always have. Even Lincoln warned us of this.

The largesse these firms get from the tax payer is a also bribery, a form of pay for votes from the workers who they hire, who will vote for more wars, more defense spending, and also they will vote to cut social spending on all other groups in society but their own.

The hypocrisy of the GOP going to protest the shut down of the WW2 park was emblematic of their priorities. The cuts to vets and active duty service people, the disabled vets, they did not protest. They protested what to them was a method of getting public support due to those who died, to keep up the myth they are in the business of defending the USA. They aren't. Rather complex, but in the end, disgusting and self serving. A joke on all of us.

JMHO.

Because the news machines are owned by right wing billionaires. They will never change. And it's not

really about ratings, either, as they are merely mouth pieces for the billionaires to influence the public.

Slipping lies daily into the mass consciousness of America. So that they can get the bigger payoff, to own the USA and every thing in it.

When they've gotten enough, they'll probably turn all networks straight into the Two Minute Hate like Fox News, Beck and Rush have been. They won't even pretend to be about news.

Heck, they aren't about news now. Only as a talking point to push the propaganda. A lot of their news is not even current events. At times they put out stuff that is years old and don't admit it. Just as in videos on youtube and internet stories that use bots to update the 'news' which in looking further, is years old. We've seen many of these at DU pointed out, but the taste in mouth and the outrage remains. It's all bull.



Have to have a strong stomach to be on MIRT, I'm sure. I've been asked over the years to manage some

boards or be a host here. It means having to read the fecal droppings.

I see the Chomsky thread got more action, and what Sea said here that I was not aware of. Yes, he barbequed the sacred cow, touched the taboo, like Hedges, and must be thrown under the bus.

I appreciated rednomore and some other posters' responses. Was deeply disappointed with others.

It does have to do with comprehension of a topic vs knee jerk responses. When someone who says cigarettes are bad for the lungs or drinking harms the liver. These things are proven by science.

An addict cannot hear it, thinks they are a victim, will do anything to resist being denied a fix. It's not coming from a place of reason and logic, cannot be reached by any kind of facts or thinking process, just like baggers. It's repetition of something that brooks no denial and will not allow one the power to say to no.

Not the best analogy, but defensiveness and name calling are necessary to protect one's true love interest.

A person who has been around an addict who is deeply into a drug, be it chemical (meth, etc.) or mental (Faux News) uses any justification to not stop partaking. It is very painful to stop what has given a sense of comfort.

Only one of those I saw was the first and escaped that fate by hanging out with the men.

Who did not make bigoted jokes or discuss anything but how each other was getting along. No need to agree on anything, just catch up.

Religion was also not part of the meal, as it was just a choice one made and no one's business but that one person. Same as, 'Do you want to have mashed potatoes or do you want sweet potatoes?'

When people recognize consciously that beliefs are a matter of personal choice and nothing more, they lose the power to terrify or condemn.

As far as being seen and not heard, some days it was more of not seen or heard as they were worn out and left us to decide what we chose to do.

We weern't that chummy, but we had time to think. We were odd, I guess.

I miss them very much during the holidays.


It DOES NOT need attribution. I got wind of it from redqueen. But it's a public video. No need...

The person doing the chewing is nibbling on the wrong thing, or IOW,
JAQing off = Just Asking Questions to deflect off the topic or trolling.

No substantial answer except by zazen. Good for you for posting it but don't send the trolls my way. They'll only enter the black hole of Ignore. Where there be wailing and gnashing of teeth...

I don't apologize for using the feature and not listening to every fart that is blown my way. Those who insist you listen to them are bullies, when they are demanding you answer them!!!!

Unlike real life, you don't have to answer anyone here. I pay to post and get search features, avatar, sig line and the rest. I'm not going to be used as toilet paper just because some poster think they have the right to yell at me. I never attack other DUers, not for their ideas, personally or otherwise.

Freedom, ya know!!!


Found it, but most repondents have already entered the event horizon.



Stronger than Hedges. Fearless, and as always, Noam sees the big picture. I predict...

Chomsky and Hedges to be thrown under the bus in 3... 2... 1... Who will be the next hero for liberty?

My ex and I watched as this unfolded in the seventies in the liberal sphere. Luckily, he was a man who saw the big and the small picture.

I could explain, not today. Nice add to this thread, Sea.

You are mistaken on all counts of the extent of Executive Orders,

which while federal government ordered, commanded the states and all enttities to do the will of the EOs. These crossed all the lines of society, from business to the most personal and effected real people:



Executive Order 9066 was a United States presidential executive order signed and issued during World War II by the United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, authorizing the Secretary of War to prescribe certain areas as military zones. Eventually, EO 9066 cleared the way for the deportation of Japanese Americans to internment camps. The executive order was spurred by a combination of war hysteria and reactions to the Niihau Incident.

'Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas...'

Americans of Italian and German ancestry were also targeted by these restrictions, including internment. 11,000 people of German ancestry were interned, as were 3,000 people of Italian ancestry, along with some Jewish refugees. The interned Jewish refugees came from Germany, as the U.S. government did not differentiate between ethnic Jews and ethnic Germans (Jewish was defined as a religious practice). Some of the internees of European descent were interned only briefly, while others were held for several years beyond the end of the war. Like the Japanese internees, these smaller groups had American-born citizens in their numbers, especially among the children. A few members of ethnicities of other Axis countries were interned, but exact numbers are unknown.

Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson was responsible for assisting relocated people with transport, food, shelter, and other accommodations.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066

I will note at this point, that Maduro is facing civil unrest and hysteria just as FDR was facing. As awful as the internment was, did it save lives?

I've read of the outright theft of land, homes and intense racist hatred expressed toward loyal Americans of Japanese descent by those who did not see any reason for them to be here.

Not pretty reading at all. If Maduro was not taking these measures, which are ostensibly to ease the fury of the masses, would they shed the blood of those who they see as robbing them?

Is Maduro promulgating violence or reducing it?

Those questions seem to fall within DUer's notions of pro or anti Maduro, or ideology. Revolutions, wars and civil wars kill many innocent people who are scapegoated.

Remarkably, EO 9066 was not repealed until 1976 by President Ford. More information at link above.

EO 9066 violated the 5th Amendment under the Constitution, or so it was argued by plaintiffs. The Supreme Court disagreed:

The Legality of Japanese Relocation

The legality of interning thousands of American Japanese was thoroughly tested in the following cases:

Case #1:

Hirbayashi, an American citizen of Japanese ancestry, was convicted in the district court of knowingly disregarding restrictions placed on him by the relocation order. The defendant cited his Fifth Amendment rights which guarantees that Americans will not be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. In trying the case, the Supreme Court upheld the position of the government as a wartime necessity.

Case #2:

Based on the Hirbayashi Case, the Supreme Court once again upheld the legality of the relocation when presented with the case of Fred Korematsu, who was arrested and convicted for not reporting to an assembly center in May 1942 and for remaining in San Leandro, California, a 'Military Area.' In this case, the Supreme Court exhibited deference towards military opinion and made it clear that the relocation was based on military necessity and not on racial prejudice. Also, the term "concentration camp" is explicitly condemned as a reference to the relocation centers.


http://americanhistory.unomaha.edu/module_display.php?mod_id=69&review=yes#504

Another of FDR's EO's during war time is this one here:

EO 8802 was issued to end racial and other discrimination in hiring for government work. While is within your idea of federal, those manufacturers were not directly employed by the federal government, but were by privately owned firms, such as GM, etc.:

http://americanhistory.unomaha.edu/module_display.php?mod_id=69&review=yes#869

Those are just a few examples. We are also not living during WW2 or the American Civil War. And some of the EO's from Kennedy through Bush are scary things that do give the POTUS power to mobilize or force any people, business and resources in emergencies.

We don't ever want these to be enacted, and they will not be if we maintain a democratic government, but some are determined to undermine the things that prevent revolution, or social disorder, civil wars or catastrophes made by people.

Natural catastrophes can be mitigated by a well functioning government taking steps to reduce the impact, which the Grover types want eliminated. More profit for them by destroying the Commons, allowing them to enforce economic apartheid by privatization. We are now seeing this take place here in our country. It leads to a feudal mindset.

Which is what countries south of the border have endured for centuries. It's not new for them to be squeezed by oligarchs.

It appears that Maduro is of the mind, as are his supporters, that he is in the midst of a war against those persons or groups intent on overturning his government. He thinks he is legitimate. I am talking in terms of reasons and results. Is it a civil war?

Lincoln also did things that crossed all the lines.

Going after supermarkets seems silly or dictatorial to us. It may be his last stand. Myself, I do not believe this is the way to get concessions from the implacable business class. In our country, there was an appeal from all fronts, religious and otherwise, to decency and fair play. And violence, indeed, that forced changes.

Coming from centuries of hardship based on brutal colonial rule in the Americas, which the USA fought off years ago, it seems out of line to some people. The Europeans had wars based on this and accomplished a more thorough job of creating a more equa society despite maintenance of their aristocratic families, than even we have.

If Maduro is not building needed infrastructure, both social and physical in his nation, he will fail. In order to have working government, or to achieve a social democracy the basics of life must be available, as well as the promotion of education and training for the jobs of the future in a world economy. Venezuela's oil didn't produce prosperity in recent years.

Should Chavez or now Maduro make some kind of compromise with the business class to build a mixed social democracy such as Europe and to a lesser extent, the USA?

It's heretical to some, but it theoretically takes care of the needs of most of society, allows for social mobility, and faces the reality that the oligarches, as Putin admitted himself, are not going away...

So the face is, they must be negotatiated with, but we must remember they have legions of people who are not oligarchs, but support their system. They will kill those who try to end it as there is more than one kind of soldier.

Marxist theory calls for the evolution of society, and socialism springs from a capitalist stage after other forms have been overcome. But socialism always has opposition, its roots are deep and intertwined. Religion and other social groups support royalty of a less Earthly kind, but still, they use the same language.

Many otherwise modern people love romanticized views of a naturalistic medieval lifestyle in media fantasy. Within such alternative realities, there are acceptance of things we say we hate. Why would we fantasize about that, when we say we fear being taken back to the medieval era?

I suggest we're not being educated on the values of what we have in a social democracy, but want to dream. Those who dream of a utopia of equality thorugh socialism also refuse to give it up. Likely though, the future is in the middle. I wish it were not, personally.

Most of this is not a valid answer to your question or statement, but I will close in saying that the reasons for EO's and the decrees being explained in this thread, are not the bogeyman. The reason for what Maduro is doing has not been well explained, outside of ideological rhetorical terms.

The results may be good, they may be a disaster. The reason behind EO's are important, as are the results, not just the name.

AFAIK, Obama has never made an unConstitutional but any stretch of even the most radical RWNJ fantasy. I don't think Maduro is, either.

I still think we are not getting enough data from Venezuela to discuss fully what is happening there. There must be something more going on, that we are not seeing. The views appear one sided, pro or anti, not really factual.

Okay, back to housework. Sorry I didn't do better in this reply.

I see your point but it's not hilarious to me. Rather depressingly human.



This particuarly human way of thinking does not bode well for living things. Or future generations. What we have been given freely on this planet is not respected, but it is essential, even for those who want wealth and power, beyond those pressed into supplying the labor for it.

Chris Hedges: 'I get very angry with the liberal class on the left for their refusal to condemn...

...pornography. Why is it morally indefensible to physically abuse a woman in a sweatshop in the Phillipines or in southern China, but somehow it's an issue of free speech when it's done by the sex industry in the United States...'

From the video posted by redqueen some time back:



It recieved the regular DU treatment. As her sig line at the time said:

"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends" - Martin Luther King Jr.

The lack of concern from bleeding hearts spoke to censorship and I was disappointed to see that many must have been afraid to speak out and take the abuse. I didn't expect that thread to go that way at all.

One thread I posted in that forum regarding sexist GOP lawmakers and their outrageous behavior got no outrage. A video on forced marriage was trolled and I was threated with the thread being hidden or I would be banned. My best support came from a man who said it was true, and I looked him up onlline as he is from the Middle East and gave other sources of the video that made the fuss.

So I do not post on these things, and have said why.

From one of my posts on that ill fated thread by redqueen, which from Hedge's point of view, and was about trying to raise consciousness about class war and exploitation:

Liberalism has a blindspot when it comes to pornography. Liberals see it as a freedom issue - adults should be free to watch porn if they want, so long as no-one is harmed in the making of it. Adults should also be free to make porn if they want. Companies should be free to sell porn.

No one wants to oppose pornography, for fear it will make them look Victorian and repressed, like Mary Whitehouse. To oppose porn might be seen as 'weird' - to accept it and giggle at it is normal.

In fact, just about the only male journalist I can think of who has raised any concerns about the massive global pornography industry and its effect on all of us is Chris Hedges, a Pulitzer Prize-winning war correspondent who has become something of a moral voice in journalism.

In his 2008 book, Empire of Illusion, he asserted that porn is a particularly vicious form of corporate slavery, in which women are commodified, abused and traumatised for the pleasure of male consumers and the multi-billion-dollar profit of corporations.


Although I would NOT call that 'liberalism' or 'progessive' values. Don't forget that Hedges is a Libertarian. But troubled about what many civil libertarians demand as their rights.

Just My Humble Opinion, and data to be reviewed, as I will not be trolled by anyone about this. I won't argue with those who have busy minds but whose empathy is dead.

Thanks for the threads that led me here, I don't bother to comment on this anywhere, and don't plan to be a regular here. Threads that refer to terms like patriarchy cause me to leave immediately. They seem to date the issues.

The issues being raised in these threads are dead at DU, but who knows, someone might listen.

The posts by NYC SKP showed he had read and thought about the larger implications.

EDIT: Since the link to the thread was to a self-deleted thread, I don't know what it was, but the DU response was the same. It's always the same. Thanks for trying. AT.
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