Mad_Machine76
Mad_Machine76's JournalIt would be nice if more discussions here followed that same principle.
It's one thing to criticize our elected leaders for what they say or do, including President Obama, but it's another to lob wild accusations that baselessly impugn them as people. Beyond the fact that it smears good, decent people, it also IMHO breeds defeatism because if you believe that every elected politician is essentially a scumbag in thrall to all of the bad forces in the universe, there is no way to believe (or hope) that things can or will get better. I think that that's where a lot of my own frustration with a lot of discussions on this site comes from.
Amen to that!
Also, can we stop with the spurious comparisons between what is (currently) being contemplated regarding intervention in Syria and Bush's decision to invade/occupy Iraq in 2003. The situations are not identical (or remotely close)
I generally can support a limited military intervention here and there
if justified by facts and a reasonable cause and involves careful planning that minimizes our involvement and probable casualties (think Bosnia in the 1990's). Invading and occupying Iraq OTOH didn't involve any of those things, particularly since there was no known and (then) current WMD threat to anybody, not even to Iraqi citizens. I'm pretty neutral on the current situation in Syria but I'd probably be more worried about it if Bush were (P)resident given what we know about how he handled Iraq and Afghanistan during his (P)residency. Sometimes the difference in which party is in the WH DOES make a totally legitimate difference and doesn't have anything to do with mindless Obama/Democrat worship and, at least so far, President Obama- like Presidents Clinton and Carter before him- has seemed more calculated, thoughtful, observant, and cautious in regards to military actions and am more inclined to support him- even if I don't fully embrace the cause- when they feel like they have to act or want to act to help support another country. Whether or not I trust the person responsible for our foreign policy goes a long way to determining whether I support what they do.
Except that Bush WAS illegitimate from the beginning
His (P)residency was ill-gotten and everything else that followed turned out equally bad for everybody. The Republicans have been grasping at straws trying to find something totally off the wall or nonsensical to discredit or delegitimatize President Obama starting with the whole nonsense over his birth certificate that didn't finally get settled until 2 years into his Presidency.
They can't pull it off now
and they won't even be able to pull it off even IF they win the Senate in the next midterms. Why? Because even if they win a majority in the House and Senate and send a bill repealing Obamacare, it won't be by a veto-proof margin, so as long as Barack Obama is President (through 2017), it's NEVER going to become law. And by 2017, it will be well-established law and people will have adapted to it (hopefully, with some tweaks along the way), so I doubt that there will be any significant public outcry pushing for repeal by then. Repeal is DEAD in the water short of President Obama signing it or pushing for it self and the chances of THAT happening are 0.000000000% Republicans need to get over it and move in IMHO and start working with the Democrats to try to improve it and/or iron out some of the bumps.
Republicans have set the bar impossibly HIGH for impeachment for THEIR Presidents
but have set the bar extremely LOW for impeachment for Democratic Presidents. It's a good thing (for them) that Democrats are more interested in doing other things and helping people rather than engaging in petty political retribution even when Republicans really, really deserve it. Democrats *should* really have been calling for impeachment from day 1 of the George W. Bush (mis-)Administration based simply on the malfeasance of the Bush 2000 campaign and the voter disenfranchisement efforts and other assorted electoral *irregularities* in Florida under Bush's brother and then-Secretary of State Katherine Harris. Until President Obama matches or exceeds the malfeasance and IMHO criminality of the Bush/Cheney regime during their eight long years in power, Republicans just need to STFU about impeachment! No matter what the Republicans say, the IRS didn't just go after conservative groups and it wasn't instigated by President Obama anyway and what happened in Benghazi was certainly tragic but it was no more of an impeachable offense than Bush and his (mis-)administration failing to do everything that they could to prevent the deaths of 3000 American civilians on 9/11/01, the 60-70 people killed in Embassy attacks throughout the world during the rest of the Bush (P)residency, and, more importantly, the thousands of senseless American and Iraqi civilian deaths and casualties resulting from the completely preventable and unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq.
It's ugly politics- and even uglier optics for them
though I highly doubt that many people will see it as "treason" per se. It would be nice, however, to be able to have a serious discussion about how Republicans have trashed the legislative process, particularly in the Senate........
and the balloon gets a little more deflated
The earliest that they could actually do anything about it- assuming that they have majorities in Congress and the WH- is 2017 but by then people will have adapted and it probably won't even be an issue anymore. Obamacare is or will be the "new normal" here in America. Not perfect yet, of course, but it will make things better than they have been IMHO.
We won. They lost. They need to get over it. We had to deal with them getting all those tax cuts and a "war of choice" in Iraq during (P)resident Bush's reign of error, which we all had to pay for. They now get to help pay for health care coverage for millions of Americans.
Getting President Obama to sign a bill defunding/repealing Obamacare is a right-wing fantasy
he won't be giving them that satisfaction
The whole thing about Benghazi IMHO
was about the Republicans finally finding SOMETHING that they could attack President Obama's foreign policy credentials on in advance of the 2012 election, as well as tar Hillary with in advance of her (potential) run in 2016. It also ultimately helped them tear down Susan Rice's chances to become SOS to succeed Hillary. I'm pretty sure at least some of them also hoped that they would uncover some kind of major criminal negligence and/or wrongdoing on Obama and/or Hillary's part that would bring them down but, of course, they have never been able to find anything.
Given what happened on 9/11/01 (which Bush/Cheney had at least some advance warning of prior) and the number of fatal US embassy attacks during the Bush (mis-)Administration, the hypocrisy of the right-wing/Republican attacks on President Obama over 4 deaths in Benghazi, as well as the intense scrutiny has been extraordinarily breathtaking IMHO.
Profile Information
Name: Mara Alis ButlerGender: Female
Hometown: Indianapolis, Indiana
Home country: USA
Current location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Member since: Sat Feb 28, 2004, 01:13 AM
Number of posts: 24,402
