These Are the BS Supporters I'm Talking About

[louis c]

Let me start off by saying this isn't Bernie's fault and by no means do the people mentioned in this article represent all, or even most of Bernie supporters. But they do represent a sizable portion. somewhere between a quarter and a half of his voters, polling data indicates:

<snip>“If they cheat again, I have told people I will vote for Trump,” Pennsylvania resident and Sanders supporter Keith Ward, 58, told the Washington Examiner. “Not because I like him, but because if this country is going down a slippery slope, they have no one to blame but themselves ... [no] matter how much damage I believe Trump is doing.”

Ward voted for Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primary and for Green Party candidate Jill Stein in the general election. “I felt I had no choice,” he said, adding that he felt his 2016 vote would send a message. “I'm just not sure the [Democratic] Party heard it.”<snip>



Link:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/bernie-or-bust-the-sanders-supporters-who-will-back-trump-if-their-man-isnt-democratic-nominee

[beachbum bob]

1. this was more typical than not as these voters hate america more than anything when they don't

get their way. Same with Ralph Nader voters in 2000, they all have blood on their hands for th death destruction GWB/Cheney unleashed.

those who should know better gave us trump, damning the future of our country and our kids

[Stellar]

62. People at DU hate Bernie so much they would believe a conservative rag?

And this is the way Democrats loose again in 2020. They spread all kinds of malicious rumors, and Democrats eat it up.

The Examiner has been described as and is widely regarded as conservative. When Anschutz first started the Examiner in its daily newspaper format, he envisioned creating a competitor to The Washington Post with a conservative editorial line.
Founder(s): Philip Anschutz
Format: Internet, magazine
Ceased publication: 2013 (newspaper)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Examiner

[KPN]

81. What do you mean by more typical than not? Sounds to me like a broad statement that

could use some clarification.

[namahage]

2. Not sure the Washington Examiner is the best source

to use to make your point.

[mountain grammy]

3. The Washington Examiner is a right wing rag.

Why is it here on DU?

[louis c]

10. Please point to the parts of the article that are untruthful.

[mountain grammy]

18. All of it if it's in the Examiner

I just wonder why you chose that article when these juicy ones were right in front of you..

Elizabeth Warren is the Trump gift that keeps giving

or maybe this one:

After weeks of trashing Pence for woke points, Buttigieg dodges questions about the whole act

Now I have to go take a shower after spending time on the Washington Examiner. Please don't defend right wing crap.

[louis c]

29. I didn't see that quote in the article...

...just the quotes from named Sanders' supporters who validate my experiences with so many of them.

[mountain grammy]

35. They were other headlines in the right wing crap you chose

to share here. Maybe look at the whole paper instead of chosing the one article to bash the candidate you dislike..

please don't bring right wing bullshit to DU.. I do think there's acutally a rule about that..

[louis c]

36. Can we talk to the issues in this article?

[lapucelle]

41. The article doesn't bash any candidates.

It isn't even about any of the candidates. It's about a segment of one of the candidate's supporters, those who cast ballots for BS in the primary but voted for DT in the general.

http://people.umass.edu/schaffne/schaffner_et_al_IDC_conference.pdf

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

[mountain grammy]

45. I can't believe the Washington Examiner is being defended here..

You support Warren.. Have you read what they write about her?

[lapucelle]

48. The article does not mention any candidates.

It's about a group of voters that existed in 2016 and whether or not it is likely that the group will impact 2020.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

http://people.umass.edu/schaffne/schaffner_et_al_IDC_conference.pdf

[KPN]

83. Oh, I get it.

[yaesu]

11. yep, its a tRumpster rag spreading fascist propaganda

and yes, it shouldn't be used on DU.

[Power 2 the People]

28. +1000

[MineralMan]

4. Voting for Jill Stein in 2016 DID send a message. That message said:

"I'm a complete and total dumbass! I will do the stupidest thing possible, every last freaking time!"

[radical noodle]

8. THIS!

[leftofcool]

13. Yes

[calimary]

32. Yep.

Vote for the gal sitting at Putin’s banquet table. That way you can get the same result even while claiming you’re innocent because you (technically) didn’t vote for trump.

[BlueFlorida]

43. It was more like

"If I don't get my way, you don't get your way either." (neener neener)

[LongtimeAZDem]

52. Yep

[Mike Nelson]

5. They did not cheat or rig...

… The superdelegates were there... and, in the end, they made no difference. Hillary (like Obama, before her) understood and used the system in place. The open votes favored Hillary. The caucuses favored Bernie, but they were there and he used them - as he should.

Candidates are always trying to negotiate debates - when, where, how long, formats... who gets in any why. Some like it one way, some like it another... use your pull to get it the way you want. After it's decided, stop complaining and try to make the best impression with what you're given - that's my advice.

The real cheating... the real rigging... we know where that was...

[fatrick]

61. Really?

If 2016 was so clean then why change the way the delegates?

Hmmmm, explain that!

[LongtimeAZDem]

63. Because Sanders and company whined like petulant children

[Agschmid]

68. More and more states are getting rid of caucuses because they actually disenfranchise people.

That was another change we’ve made since 2016.

[namahage]

73. Why did we also change the requirement of pledging to run as a Democrat?

Surely NO ONE would, upon winning a Democratic nomination, refuse it and not run as a Democrat, right?

[Codeine]

82. To avoid having all the toys being thrown out of the pram again. nt

[radical noodle]

6. It's becoming clear

that the issue for BS voters in 2016 wasn't really Hillary.

[MineralMan]

7. I personally know three people who voted for Jill Stein

as a protest against Hillary Clinton. All three have admitted that it was a very stupid thing to do and have promised not to do anything that stupid again.

[MH1]

9. What a fucked-up attitude that man has. Wow.

I have told people I will vote for Trump,” Pennsylvania resident and Sanders supporter Keith Ward, 58, told the Washington Examiner. “Not because I like him, but because if this country is going down a slippery slope, they have no one to blame but themselves ... [no] matter how much damage I believe Trump is doing.”

Not a very progressive attitude.

[stonecutter357]

12. K&R

[KitSileya]

14. How contemptible of him.

I think that's what I will call those who voted for Jill Stein from now on - contemptibles. Secretary Clinton talked about how half of Trump's supporters were deplorables, and she was being kind. I would call all of the deplorable, and when it comes to those who voted for Jill Stein, wrote in a third party candidate or Harambe or Senator Sanders - all I have for them is contempt. So contemptible is the new noun I will use for them.

[Kentonio]

51. Calling them deplorable was stupid and probably cost us an election

How about we try and not make the same mistakes again, no matter how true the premise?

[Dave in VA]

15. Who cares what this guy thinks...

just go find 2 voters to replace him that need help getting to the polls, or aren't registered to vote and help them with the process. Volunteer with your local democratic party for help with GOTV and just counter his stupid vote plus one more.

Just my $0.02

[louis c]

17. I've got hundreds of people to replace people like him...

...they're blue collar voters in the mid-west that will switch from Trump to Biden

[Dave in VA]

19. This exactly!

Plus find 2 new voters!

[BlueFlorida]

44. Absolutely this. nt

[leftofcool]

59. This

[Hortensis]

16. "Nearly half of Sanders-Trump voters disagree with

the idea that "white people have advantages."

That's just to grab attention because I found it before I found a site with quotes from reputable sources. We've all seen the quotes posted here from reputable studies and journals, though. The threads are very long.

Face it, the people we're talking about are very different from principled, ideological Democrats. They're not merely ignorant or deluded, and they're not just deplorable. They're despicable by our standards, all their excuses attempted cover for what is inexcusable.

On the plus side, they're only about a quarter of Sanders' supporters. The rest are honorable Democratic voters. And only half of that quarter voted directly for Trump, while others voted third party to defeat Democrats and thus indirectly helped elect Trump.

On the bad side NOW, for 2020, Sanders has lost support from mainstream Democrats and is working hard, indicated by his Fox "town hall," to replace them with trumpsters in far larger numbers, with whom he wants to defeat all our principled Democratic candidates. He wouldn't need or owe his base a thing after elected, of course.

The term "lie down with dogs" comes to mind, except that's an insult to dogs of course.

[mountain grammy]

20. Is this from the Washington Examiner too?

Talk about "lying down with dogs.."

[Hortensis]

22. Sorry, NPR, link below, but this study is quoted by many.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

[mountain grammy]

33. Hey, if the goal is to make Democrats mad at each other by rehashing 2016

by all means, carry on.

[Hortensis]

38. This is about 2020. WHAT do we do about these people

EXCEPT expose them for what they are?

The usual agitprop pushed by our enemies is that they are real Democrats. They called people who voted for Trump and Stein our base (!!!), portrayed them as many times more numerous than they are, and to this day "worry" that anything but allowing them to trash our party and all Democratic candidates but their leader will split the party and lose the election.

Nuts to that. Calling them out for what they are is just part of creating an informed electorate. What people know this time around is already resulting in plummeting support for Sanders. According to an A+ poll, it's something like 42% of what it was in 2016. And no doubt this will continue to drop as these realities are finally being reported by the press.

YOU should be glad of this, Granny. A big technique in the right's and Russia's agitprop was attributing their anti-Democratic attitudes and behaviors to all Sanders supporters.

[mountain grammy]

39. oh yeah, ok, maybe that works for you..

I would prefer to focus on the truth of what's happening today and what our candidates are saying.

The 2016 election, in my opinion, was an anomaly and rigged at a level far beyond what we know, and we know a lot.. We can focus on free and fair elections or we can rage on about about Bernie supporters and the myths surrounding them. It's our choice.

But any link used to defend right wing talking points is automatically suspect in my mind.

[Hortensis]

47. Russia's use of Sanders voters was central to their strategy.

Russia's effort to convince Bernie Sanders voters to support Trump was 'central' to their strategy to beat Hillary Clinton, according to a new study
Business Insider Apr. 12, 2019

* Sen. Bernie Sanders was "central" to Russia's efforts to interfere in the 2016 election, according to a new study.
* The study suggests the Russians looked as Sanders as a tool to drive a wedge in the Democratic party more than was previously known.
* Of the Russian tweets the researchers analyzed, roughly 9,000 used the word "Bernie," which were "liked" 59,281 times and retweeted 61,804 times.

Russia's effort to convince supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders to vote for President Donald Trump over former Secretary Hillary Clinton was more expansive than previously known, according to a new study.

Researchers at Clemson University, at the request of The Washington Post, examined English-language tweets that came from Russia and found thousands that were designed to urge Sanders supporters to back Trump.

The tweets came from accounts masquerading as conservative Americans, with profiles that said things like, "Southern. Conservative Pro God. Anti Racism" and tweeted things like, "#BlackMenForBernie Leader Switches to Trump! I will Never Vote for Hillary, Welcome aboard the Trump Train." ...

"There is no question that Sanders was central to their strategy. He was clearly used as a mechanism to decrease voter turnout for Hillary Clinton," Darren Linvill, associate professor of communications and one of the researchers who worked on the study, told The Post.

Sanders was "just a tool" to the Russians, Linvill added, and "a wedge to drive into the Democratic Party."

https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-central-to-russias-pro-trump-2016-strategy-study-2019-4

Here's something else: Observers say Russia never stopped using Sanders. Even though he's losing ground here, he's still useful to keep the U.S. in Repub/Russian hands.

You know, Granny, trumpsters won't be able to trade their denial for medical care or to pay utility bills if their leaders succeed in taking away Social Security and Medicare, and neither will Sanders' zealots. Way past time for those people who can to realize this is about a lot more than pissing in the Democratic Party's cheerios.

[mountain grammy]

69. I have only one question

Will you vote for Bernie Sanders if he’s our nominee?

[Hortensis]

70. Here's mine: Would you really vote for him in the primary

given what's at stake and knowing he might once again use any support he gets to cause internal problems?

Don't answer, please just wonder what's the right thing to do. We all have a huge duty to our nation and to those who will come after us and will have to live with what we'd made of what our parents bequeathed us.

[mountain grammy]

71. Because nothing's at stake in the general

Right?

[mountain grammy]

75. And you may spout NPR pieces and statistics all day long about Bernie supporters

not voting for the 2016 Democratic nominee, but in the end, it appears you just may not vote for the 2020 Democratic nominee. Can you see why I find your arguments just a bit disingenuous?

As a Sanders supporter in 2016 I was asked that question many times and I never had to hesitate or answer with a question. No matter who the Democratic nominee is, that's who I will vote for. To answer differently in 2016 meant trouble. But here we are discussing the same old thing but around right wing publications, now perfectly acceptable on DU along with no committment to vote for the nominee.

Get over your hatred of Bernie Sanders because there's a good chance he will be the nominee.

[lapucelle]

49. It's from Professor Schaffner's two studies on the 2016 election.

Explaining White Polarization in the 2016 Vote for President:The Sobering Role of Racism and Sexism

http://people.umass.edu/schaffne/schaffner_et_al_IDC_conference.pdf

Guide to the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Survey

The Cooperative Congressional Election Study, or CCES, seeks to study how Americans view Congress and hold their representatives accountable during elections, how they voted and their electoral experiences, and how their behavior and experiences vary with political geography and social context. This study constructed a very large sample capable of capturingvariation across a wide variety of legislative constituencies. In fact, the state-level samplesare sufficiently large as to measure with a reasonable degree of precision the distribution of voters' preferences within most states. The 2016 CCES involved 60 teams, yielding a Common Content sample of 64,600 cases.

https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi%3A10.7910/DVN/GDF6Z0

[left-of-center2012]

21. The Washington Examiner is a right wing rag

Not fit for DU use, IMHO

[mountain grammy]

24. I agree!

[louis c]

26. How about refuting on the merits?

Any chance you can do that?

[Politicub]

25. The Washington Examiner? Really?

Talk about a source that peddles right wing talking points. Can we please use sources that don't increase ad revenue of right wing sites when we click on them?

[louis c]

27. Please argue on the merits.

[Politicub]

30. There are no merits to be had from a site that peddles in right wing smears.

If you can't find an unbiased source, it's hard to believe any of this article. It sounds like a complete fabrication to me.

[lapucelle]

53. Here you go.

‘Bernie or Bust’ Voters Create Predicament for Democrats in 2020

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-17/-bernie-or-bust-voters-create-predicament-for-democrats-in-2020

Overall, we rate Bloomberg Left-Center biased due to story selection that slightly favors the left and factually high due to proper sourcing.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bloomberg/

[G_j]

80. No merits to argue

the source is not reputable

[louis c]

85. The merits are that a large proportion of BS supporters voted 3rd party, stayed home...

...wrote in or voted Trump in the General Election.

We knew the opposing candidate was a monster. He was not McCain or Romney, but closer to Hitler

Too many (not all) of BS supporters fucked this country out of spite in 2016. This poll (which is not a RW poll, no matter what article it appears in) demonstrates the same people are willing to do the same thing to this country again.

A Biden nomination, bringing home the blue collar workers who voted for Trump just because they disliked Hillary (but don't consider themselves Socialists) wins us the election without having to rely on those unreliable voters who temporarily are registered as Democrats.

[demmiblue]

31. Unrec. for source. n/t

[left-of-center2012]

34. DU rules state ...

Don't peddle right-wing talking points, smears, or sources

[CentralMass]

37. Maybe things have changed? They seem to have some really bad articles on Joe Biden.

Google of Washingtonexaminer + Joe Biden

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon&ei=53vAXOTlEIj6tAXd04H4Cw&q=washington+examiner+%2B+biden&oq=washington+examiner+%2B+biden&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.3...914.5766..6730...0.0..0.160.1087.0j8......0....1.........0i71j0j0i22i30j33i22i29i30j33i160.9XOz8k9VywY

I wonder if it is ok to site right wing sources as long as you talk about the merits ?

[mountain grammy]

42. Exactly! Wonder how the OP missed those..

So strange..

[louis c]

56. Funny how Sanders appeared on Fox.

Are they a reliable source of information?

I, for one, think it was a great move to appear on Fox. If we can convince just a small fraction of those viewers to support a Democrat, it's very advantages.

But you can have it both ways. Content is what's important. I know how to filter a source. Unless you can prove that this person being interviewed isn't a Sanders' supporter or what's quoted is inaccurate, let's discuss the merits.

It has been my experience as a Democratic City Committee member in my home town for 20 years and a State Convention Delegate at least 5 times, that the words being quoted here are exactly what I heard in 2016 from the Sanders supporters I know.

Now, here are actual quotes and an unbiased poll (Poll was NPR) that validates my anecdotal evidence.

[lapucelle]

60. Bloomberg has a similar story.

It relies on information from Dr. Schaffner's studies and interviews with BoBs, just like the one you cited.

‘Bernie or Bust’ Voters Create Predicament for Democrats in 2020

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-17/-bernie-or-bust-voters-create-predicament-for-democrats-in-2020

[louis c]

40. I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking my OP was already alerted on...

...and it passed affirmatively through a jury.

[LongtimeAZDem]

50. That went out the window when Sanders' supporters started crowing about FOX

[CentralMass]

54. I've made numerous posts condemning fox news and stating my support

for the DNC's debate ban. I've also stated that Sanders made a mistake appearing on a town hall there and I think that Pete Buttigieg is making a similar mistake.

Hower the DNC has no problem with candidates appearing .on Fox outside of the debate ban

This is different then siting a right wing source for a negative post about one of the front runners.

[louis c]

57. If it untruthful?

[CentralMass]

65. I believe that is untruthful and I can site the last elections stats as

data point. However you arr not interested in having that discussion so I won't spin my wheels. Googld
E Washingtonexamer + Jie Biden and look at those articles. Do you think they are true ?

[CentralMass]

55. ...

[BlueFlorida]

46. It is the culmination of

anger driven campaigns ... a loss makes the supporters angrier and drives them to do irrational things.

It is the responsibility of their leader to be gracious and guide his supporters on the right path.

[LonePirate]

58. The white privilege and stupidity are strong with those BS supporters.

Bernie was thoroughly trounced in a majority of primary contests, especially in states where white working class voters are not a majority of the voters. That being said, I don’t think he has done much, if anything, to reach out to non-white or non-middle class voters. He continues to focus on idiots like Keith Ward who only want to destroy the country.

[Grasswire2]

64. The NPR polling is extremely significant. Thank you for bringing it up.

It shows that the ten percent of Bernie supporters who crossed over to Trump in the G.E. had not previously been DEMS. Further, they were aligned with Trump on such issues as white privilege.

In other words, they were spoilers from the get-go.

The same shifty tactic is showing up in current polling.

[George II]

66. Remember, three of Sanders' top campaign staffers admitted openly....

....that they did not vote for the Democratic candidate in 2016, they voted for Jill Stein:

Nina Turner - Co-chair
Briahna Gray - National Press Secretary
David Sirota - Speech writer

[UniteFightBack]

67. The fucking insane logic would drive Spock to suicide. nt

[JaneQPublic]

72. Bernie's greatest enemy...

...isn't Trump or the GOP or the DNC or Hillary or DWS or MAGAts.

It's the over-zealous segment of his supporters.

Even after Bernie speaks out in favor of a primary season free of intra-party attacks or otherwise supports party unity, they disregard him and continue their petty attacks against Dems.

Quite frankly, it's the hard-core Bernie supporters in my own family who've convinced me to rule him out as my primary choice. Rather than build up their guy, they made it their mission to distribute crap on Dem candidates --- mostly Joe Biden, but now Mayor Pete since he's moving up in the polls and even Elizabeth Warren.

Sadly, what my kinfolks are doing is what those same types are doing in social media.

I'm guessing I'm not the only one turned off by Bernie because of the anti-Dem sentiments of certain supporters.

[louis c]

74. You're correct. It's not Bernie, it's far too many of his supporters...

...I think Biden has an easier time peeling 5% from Trump among blue collar voters than the BS Zealots (not all, but too many)

[BlueFlorida]

78. I agree with you. nt

[samnsara]

76. some have the same ignorance and apathy that the trumpers have

..the 'i dont care what happens to the country if my choice doesnt get picked so im just gonna eff it up for everyone'....

[walkingman]

77. It takes all kinds of people to make a political party. The Dems are the party of the people!

Let's never forget that we all have a right to our opinion. That is what makes this country what it is. Besides it would be very boring if we all agreed on everything. One exception - we have got to get rid of that lunatic in the WH before he destroys our Democracy.

[33taw]

79. We can't change 2016. But we can commit to voting for the democratic nominee.

Bernie is in this to win, but I think even he realizes that the most important thing is to get rid of trump. Hopefully, he supports the nominee without reservation and his followers hear that message. There have always been a few outliers that vote green. We just have to overcome it.