Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumKate Manne on why female candidates get ruled "unelectable" so quickly
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/23/18512016/elizabeth-warren-electability-amy-klobuchar-2020-primary-female-candidates<snip>
Ezra Klein
How is misogyny, as you define it, in evidence in the 2020 primary so far?
Kate Manne
Because I think of misogyny as a hostility women face, rather than a psychological property men feel, I think its been coming across pretty clearly in the population-level patterns of how much support female candidates are getting compared to white male candidates. Its depressing watching the four Bs Biden, Bernie, Beto, and Buttigieg rise in the polls and generate enthusiasm beyond the substance that may be there while women trail behind them with no plausible explanation for why we see that striking pattern. Its always possible its just due to the female candidates being less exciting, but I have a hard time believing it in this race.
<snip>
Ezra Klein
Do you see echoes of how Hillary Clinton was treated in how Elizabeth Warren has been treated, and the conversation over her electability? [Note: I had this conversation with Manne before the CNN town hall where Warren was asked if she was being Hillaried.]
Kate Manne
Ive seen echoes. People always say they want substance, but when its a woman bringing it, it seems unexciting. My worry is electability is a smokescreen for for this sadly common thing, which is not wanting to support a female candidate. It seems to me that the shes not electable excuse could be just that, an excuse.
More ~ https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/23/18512016/elizabeth-warren-electability-amy-klobuchar-2020-primary-female-candidates
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)How many times did we hear it right here on DU... ."she's unelectable, she's unelectable"
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...so she kind of earned that title after the fact. But let's not act like that's unique to Clinton. How many times did we hear "I like Bernie's policies but I'm voting for a winner (Clinton)"? It's not like unelectable is a word uniquely applied to women.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TygrBright
(20,733 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calimary
(80,699 posts)The numbers dont lie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
maddiemom
(5,106 posts)BUT it's simplistic to say she "kind of earned that title" (whatever you mean by "after the fact" .
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
unblock
(51,974 posts)hillary's technical loss while winning a majority of the votes, actually proved quite definitively that she *was* electable.
she happened to have lost, but certainly any of a number of factors could have led to her winning, with comey's crap high up on that list.
her performance certainly showed that, while women face an uphill battle, a woman could very well win a presidential election down the road.
the title she earned "after the fact" may be "unelected", but certainly is not "unelectable".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MH1
(17,537 posts)30 years of smears, for one.
People wanted to pretend that none of that meant anything.
Just like they want to pretend that "socialist" won't mean anything for Sanders in the GE.
Or that "gay" won't mean anything for Buttigieg in the GE.
And yes, some still want to pretend that being female isn't a problem in the GE. I actually think Hillary might have done it except for a few (individually minor) campaign mistakes, and opposition shenanigans (including Russian interference in whatever forms). But being female is definitely a hurdle to overcome in this culture.
The sad thing is that there were (are) plenty of things that should mean a lot against Trump. But here we are. It's a big tell about the electorate, though. If we are to make progress, we have to first win - with that electorate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Funtatlaguy
(10,856 posts)But, on the other hand, I try to remind myself that a woman got three million more votes in 2016.
So, there is hope.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,925 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
comradebillyboy
(10,119 posts)fend off the hoards of BS supporters that descended on her twitter account. It take a lot of courage for a young woman to ask Bernie a hard question knowing the stream of abuse that ensues.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,925 posts)expected.
They are their own worst enemies
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
2naSalit
(86,061 posts)I have no doubt about it myself. It's pretty obvious if you're a woman, but they're not supposed to say anything about it.
In the primaries, I'm not voting for any white man. Probably not gonna vote for a man.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)I decided Warren was pretty amazing years ago and put "WARREN FOR PRESIDENT" on my car bumper. Made the sign with magic markers. As a white man, I didn't think about her gender or her race, but that she was so damn sharp, and friggin CARED about democracy, human rights and the grotesque inequality chewing up the first two.
So now on this thread everyone is drawing attention to her gender and NOT going into her beautiful history of fighting for the people.
Stop watering down my candidate and reducing her and Kamala, another fantastic candidate, to this hand-wringing sideshow! I'm sorry to say this because it undermines the narrative some here want to maintain: some white men aren't horned beasts. We share 99% of the DNA with women. We're all human with a tiny variation of chromosomes to ensure that evolution through sexual reproduction actually works.
But if you're gonna make statements like this below, which is patently sexist and offensive, then you are indermining your own human rights cause and YOU are deflecting attention away from Warren's and Harris' policies and onto something superficial:
"In the primaries, I'm not voting for any white man. Probably not gonna vote for a man."
Let's be better than this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)does media give her or any of the women candidates versus the males? Something yo be considered.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)Yes, there is grotesque sexism in the media, but I saw tons of coverage of Warren and Harris awhile back. The fresh faces are always given new attention. We're already seeing a drop off on Beto coverage... and if a person's minority status is the subject here.... why hasn't anyone cheered on Buttigieg for breaking through the nation's LGBTQ prejudices? That's pretty awesome. Give the man some credit. Goddess knows that there is a 5-10 minority in our country that craves a breakthrough like that. And his success should be seen as part of the civil rights movement, not competition.
We are the media too. We must promote our candidates based on their competence (Warren!) and their policies (Warren!) and their dynamism (Warren!) and their captivating way of sticking it to corporate interests (Warren, Warren, Warren). If she weren't running, my choice would be Bernie Sanders because he has been the die-hard model for (traditional) progressives like Warren and Harris and Buttigieg. We need good, dynamic, TRADITIONAL Democrats (i.e. NEW DEAL like FDR). It's not about Warren's chromosomes that I love her as a candidate.
Yes, there's sexism in the media, but let's keep promoting our candidates for their substance. Let's lead by example. How many of us are fighting for our candidates with a large, handmade, across-the-bumper, sign? (People pay attention to such things on the highway... it works!) How are WE promoting our candidates for their ideas, not their gender? Yes, there are some in the media who are brainlessly substituting gender and skin color for substance. But WE should lead by example.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatSeg
(46,804 posts)it seems that smart, dynamic women get a lot of attention until they actually run for president. Hillary Clinton, the most admired woman in the world, had incredible approval ratings, until she became a presidential candidate. Then she was attacked from all sides, including the media, well except when she was totally ignored by the press in favor of Trump.
Harris, Klobuchar, and Warren were viewed as very viable candidates until they actually became candidates, then they magically became invisible, except for the occasional mini "scandal" or Trump put-down. I suppose Trump is actually doing them a favor with his nasty Tweets, because that is often the only way they will get any press.
Now we hear how we as a society are much more evolved, because a gay man is actually being considered by mainstream voters for President of the United States. Yes, that is a big leap forward and we have come a long way, but are we being told that only a white male need apply for the position?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pisces
(5,592 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,804 posts)she was quite popular with most people, including the media. When she ran for president in 2016, the slurs and mud slinging began again, even worse than 2008. I know there were always people who disliked her, but it was always worse during a presidential campaign. Looking back, I can see much of the dislike was fueled by the media, as well as the republicans.
I know that I started disliking her for awhile, but realized much of that was media driven, plus the fact that she had become so careful and scripted after years to assaults from the MSM and conservatives.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pisces
(5,592 posts)Many things for too many people. The Russians and media did a number on her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,804 posts)as a candidate, she was overly managed and was listening to too many political advisers, instead of trusting her own instincts. This was especially true in 2008, when Mark Penn was her chief campaign strategist. You could practically hear him whispering in her ear, as she tried to be too many different people, but rarely herself.
She was much better in 2016, but by then, the public's perception of her was established and the media was relentless and unforgiving. I often wished the Hillary from the early 1990s could resurface. She was more open and engaging, but unfortunately that was the Hillary that got attacked by the right and the press for years. I think her first sin was being a smart, outspoken woman in a man's world of politics. That said, she definitely DID put cracks in that glass ceiling for those who follow her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,210 posts)Things never change. Mostly men, mostly white, media types going on and on about the white men running and virtually ignoring the women and men of color.
When they do write about them, it's all about whether they are likeable, or too prepared, or aggressive, etc., etc.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,804 posts)drag out that Trump driven Native American story? With all the things going on in the world, somehow they deemed that a credible news story.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)lose a general...heartbreaking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uberblonde
(1,215 posts)How about all these "concerned" people start attacking the men (yes, even Democratic men) who CONSISTENTLY show a gender gap in voting for women?
How about you lecture the sexist men to put on their big-boy pants and acknowledge they have a problem?
Stop making it seem like any women who see the institutional obstacles are just "making excuses."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BarbD
(1,191 posts)This is like going to a fine restaurant and trying to make decisions from an excellent menu. Given so many delicious choices, I usually begin by process of elimination.
Let's not immediately get defensive. Time to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative and don't mess with Mr. Inbetween.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BooScout
(10,406 posts)Alrighty then. *sigh*
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BarbD
(1,191 posts)It's a strategy of emphasizing our strengths.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BooScout
(10,406 posts)And I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and watch women again be told to smile and be quiet. Sheesh. SMH
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BarbD
(1,191 posts)I fought the glass ceiling in the corporate world, the social stigma of a single mom and ended up being successful. I smiled but I didn't keep quiet. Billy Jean King and Shirley Chisholm were my heroines. I learned from them. Stay in the moment. Keep positive and never ever give up the fight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BooScout
(10,406 posts)But I don't think you realize how your message is coming off. Essentially you're telling us to smile and ignore it. Not. Going. To. Happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BarbD
(1,191 posts)If we could meet face to face. I know we would understand what each of us were saying.
It's not a question of ignoring the unfortunate reality of women's "place" in our society. It's being aware of the problem, acknowledging its existence, but not being overwhelmed by it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
spicysista
(1,663 posts)There is good news. Since we don't have a "winner take all" system, there is hope that a female with consistent support can still have a chance once we get to the more diverse primaries.
However, there is definitely a glaring pattern.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pisces
(5,592 posts)President will have to be better. End of story. When you are the first you have to be the best. And if that means you have to be more exciting then you need to prepare for that! Of all the women running only Kamala has shown gravitas and some excitement. Warren has great policy but terrible delivery and zero command presence.
Gilibrand is too defensive and doesnt connect. Klobachar is very boring. Are they all qualified YES! But it takes more than that to get elected and even more to be the first. I dont like that we are giving them excuses for not doing well. Barack was black with a middle eastern name. He had to be the best and all the stars and moons needed to align. The same thing for a women. If they didnt know this then they dont deserve to be the first woman President. Nothing is fair in life and the fact that we have a chauvinistic society is not news to anybody, the question is how are you prepared to overcome it. Just like Barack had to be prepared to overcome racism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden