Why is Sanders against impeachment and ditching the filibuster?

[brush]

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. Sanders came out against impeachment? Haven't seen that...

would be very disappointing if true. You sure? Saw where Bernie had legitimate concerns about pursuing impeachment. Though, do hope Bernie comes out strongly FOR impeachment - IMHO, the positives outweigh any potential negatives - in view of the overwhelming evidence tRumpy committed obstruction of justice.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[yaesu]

2. A quick summary of Bernies position

-- we need to continue to investigate but we can't build the entire Democratic case against Trump in 2020 around impeachment -- is the most politically sound place to be.

He isn't against impeachment, he doesn't want the party to be too obsessed with it, talk about the good changes we will make, not about tRump all the time.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

3. Okay, that's what I thought... so, why are people definitively saying Bernie is against impeachment?

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[yaesu]

4. I have no idea but many posts about Bernie are a little disingenuous

that is the politest way I can say it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. "A LITTLE disingenuous"?!?! Yes, that was VERY polite of you!!

I mean, why not just stick with what Bernie actually said... no other candidate is ever treated this way.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[yaesu]

7. Seems to be coordinated attacks on him as I have also seen other threads on the same topic

Concern trolling would be another name for it I guess.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

8. Yup, I think you nailed that one... sad to see.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[NurseJackie]

11. Ooph!

no other candidate is ever treated this way.

[sheshe2]

29. IKR

[at140]

26. Best impeachment form is............

Best impeachment is defeating Trump in November 2020.
Then he can't blame it on partisan hacks.

Warren/Sanders 2020.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

6. Maybe because he's NOT a democrat ?

Too many of his positions are indefensible. His latest - that all prisoners should be able to vote - is unconscionable at best and deranged at worst. In his view, people such as Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Mattias Reyes, Jeffrey Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh and Dylann Roof should be able to vote. Mass murders, rapists, pedophiles, terrorists and psychotics should have a say so in voting.

Has he lost his mind ?

Once you are sentenced to jail or prison, your rights are relinquished until/if such time that you have served your time, paid your debt to society and walk the earth as a free person. If your crimes are so depraved that you are sentenced to prison by a jury of your peers, you have been found unfit to live alongside civilized people. Time spent in incarceration is about punishment. Why should anyone behind bars be permitted to engage in the discourse of innocent people ?

I have never been a supporter of Sanders, but this reveals him to be unfit for office.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

9. Wrong... haven't you heard? Bernie is a member of the Democratic Party.

And as for Bernie's view of prisoners' right to vote, save your criticism for Kamala too, who probably has more insight on this issue, being an ex-prosecutor. Good for her and Bernie for standing up for what's right!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[NurseJackie]

12. No he's not. He's running "as-a" Democrat, that doesn't mean that he IS-A Democrat.

Bernie is a member of the Democratic Party.

No he's not. He's running "as-a" Democrat, that doesn't mean that he IS-A Democrat.

In fact the official record of his last Senate vote has him listed as the "I" from Vermont. If he was a Democrat... if he cared enough to make it official, then he'd be listed as the "D" from Vermont... but he's not. Why is that?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

13. Not sure why the Senate still lists Bernie as an Independent or maybe the website hasnt been updated

or, it simply lists each Senator under the political affiliation they used in winning their seat. All I know is that the DNC recognizes Bernie as a member of the Democratic Party, or else he wouldn't be allowed to run as a Democrat in the Democratic primary or appear in the Democratic primary debates.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[NurseJackie]

15. I am.

Not sure why the Senate still lists Bernie as an Independent

I am. Because he's not a member of the Democratic party. Simple.

All I know is that the DNC recognizes Bernie as a member of the Democratic Party, or else he wouldn't be allowed to run as a Democrat in the Democratic primary or appear in the Democratic primary debates.

That's not true either. The DNC has permitted him to run "as a" Democrat, but that doesn't mean that they "recognize him as a member of the Democratic party"... it doesn't in any way shape or form mean that he "is a" Democrat. He just wants to be our party's nominee.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

16. Well, you should inform the DNC... it's an absolute requirement that Bernie be a member

of the Democratic Party to run for the 2020 Democratic nomination. So, some people's dream could come true if he's removed from the race for not being a Democratic Party member.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[NurseJackie]

17. That's simply not true.

it's an absolute requirement that Bernie be a member
of the Democratic Party to run for the 2020 Democratic nomination.

The only "requirement" is that he govern "as a" Democrat. The DNC wants to avoid a situation where someone could win the nomination and then proclaim "Ha-ha! Gotcha! I'm actually an Independent and I'm gonna do what I want!" but there's no actual requirement that he BE a Democrat in order to run.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

19. Nope, sorry, you're wrong... governing as a Democrat is NOT "the only 'requirement' " as you put it

The DNC required ALSO that Bernie affirm that he's a Democrat, so as to run for the 2020 Democratic nomination.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[NurseJackie]

20. Nice try. He's still not a Democrat. He hasn't joined the party and still votes as the "I" from VT.

[ehrnst]

24. Have you gotten the courage up to call his office yet and ASK?

No?

Can't stand to be proven right?

He is only a Democrat when he is a POTUS Candidate, but does not serve in the Senate as a Democrat, and therefore doesn't legislate, vote, represent Vermont or do ANYTHING as a Democrat, except CAMPAIGN for POTUS.

But by all means.... prove us wrong!

[George II]

21. This is the last vote in the Senate, April 11. Yes, the Senate website HAS been updated:

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=116&session=1&vote=00077

Sanders (I-VT), Nay

Here's his FEC.gov Statement of Candidacy filed on March 4, 2019:

http://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/S4VT00033/1318178/

FILING FEC-1318178

1. Bernard Sanders
72 KILLARNEY DRIVE
BURLINGTON, VT 05401

2. Identification Number: S4VT00033

3. Party: Independent

4. Office Sought: Senate

5-6. State & District of Candidate: Vermont - 0

[ehrnst]

25. STOP IT WITH THE FACTS!!! YOU ARE JUST BEING ALL MEAN AND STUFF!!!

His office staffer stated to me that his run for POTUS is COMPLETELY separate from being a Senator. He serves in the Senate as as elected in Vermont as an INDEPENDENT. He votes as an Independent, and considers his status in action in the Senate as that of an INDEPENDENT.

Two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT activities and identities, and he would NEVER tell Vermont citizens that he is a Democratic Senator.

He also turns down the Democratic nomination for Senator of Vermont every time he runs in the primary, because Independents can't run in the primary, so he is just one as long as it takes to claim all the funds that any other Democratic primary candidate could apply for, then drops that D as fast as he can.

bLuE just can't admit when she's WrOnG. She just gets more fRaNtIc and dEsPeRaTe, and tries to convince herself and everyone that the Senate.gov website is OUT OF DATE!!!!!

[NurseJackie]

27. I knew I was right all along! Thanks for the extra info... but even THAT won't be enough for some.

[George II]

22. Oh, and before we hear "but Vermont doesn't have party affiliation and/or registration"....

...for candidates there IS a box for party affiliation, Patrick Leahy has been filing as a Democrat for the last 40 years or so.

His last Statement of Candidacy:

http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/851/201702020200050851/201702020200050851.pdf

Vermont doesn't have party affiliation for VOTERS, which is completely different from candidates.

[ehrnst]

30. That is just mean.

[BannonsLiver]

32. They list him as one because he is one.

It’s not part of some vast anti Bernie conspiracy.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. Pretty sure Bernie is a member of the Democratic Party.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

36. Yes, you are sure of many things.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. It's understandable that you would feel that way... I was just honestly answering

your question... but, I certainly didn't mean to cause you any distress. My sincere apologies to you and ALL victims of violent crime and their families... while I agree with Bernie's position - we just have an honest difference of opinion - I decided to delete my post anyway, out of respect.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Haggis for Breakfast]

42. And I have deleted mine as well.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. That's cool, but you didn't have to... I really do understand where you were comin from.

All the best...




Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

23. So, then you're saying Kamala's unfit for office too?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

28. On what do you base that? Did you hear her statement yesterday?

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Kamala-Harris-prisoner-voting-rights-convicted-13790192.php

Kamala Harris clarifies response on whether prisoners should be allowed to vote

[ehrnst]

31. So this is the latest pretzel logic to justify a standard

for everyone else that doesn't apply to Bernie

[BannonsLiver]

33. There's nothing he could propose that his supporters here would disagree with

[ehrnst]

34. There is to be no dissent. No doubt. Makes for a very dynamic protest, but self-destructs

as a movement.

People who want a strong protective man who will be angry on their behalf, and punish those that they think are the cause of their pain will find that appealing, especially those prone to a dualistic world veiw. There is no need for messy grey areas, to muddle about what is best for everyone, or to weigh varying lose/lose outcomes. There are simple answers to all problems, because it's all black and white, good and evil, us and them..

You just need to follow the manifesto and the leader lockstep. Repeat the Dogma. If the simple answers aren't solving the problem, then it's because some malicious powerful force is manipulating the problem. (Satan in some circles, Oligharchs in others)

I've seen it in televangelists, when those crowds cheer, and that money comes rolling in, they convince themselves that they ARE the word of God. When your word is the measure of virtue, then who dares to disagree? A heretic.

Same on either on the left or the right. You must have absolute faith, clear dogma.

[Eric J in MN]

10. He's not.

Bernie Sanders said the House should investigate Trump. He didn’t say they shouldn’t impeach no matter what they find.

Bernie Sanders said he’s reluctant to end the filibuster because that’s what Trump wants. But if it were the only way to pass Medicare for All then he’d support it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

14. Yes, of course, Bernie didn't say he opposed impeachment... some just can't stop twisting his words.

Wonder why.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[corbettkroehler]

18. On The Filibuster, I Think His Eye's On History

When McConnell began abusing the filibuster like never before, refusing to follow Obama even on ideas he himself proposed, I researched this legislative tool. It is tempting to want to trash it. I share your disgust with filibuster abuse. It's a unique and glowing outrage.

However, the solution is not to throw out the baby with the bath water. The main purpose of the filibuster, as explained by the Founders, was to stop the "politics of faction".

In other words, our genius Founders knew many things but in terms of advancing legislation:

1) Bills relating to money begin in the House, the teacup of democracy; and

2) The Senate (the origin of its name loosely translates to "Council Of Elders&quot is the saucer beneath the teacup which is the House.

The filibuster, when implemented properly, which it wasn't under Harry Reid and still isn't under Schumer, is supposed to extend debate, not be a cudgel to stop all legislation.

The answer is to force the filibuster to be used properly. If senators object to legislation, they must make their case, live on C-SPAN continuously. During that time, if they can change hearts and minds, perhaps the legislation weren't meant to pass in the first place.

The filibuster belongs in the Senate.

http://vox.com/mischiefs-of-faction/2017/2/2/14458658/2017-filibuster-wont-be-abolished

[Codeine]

40. Because he has long-term political sense.

I can’t stand the guy but he’s right on those issues.

[brush]

44. So that means you're also against impeachment of the crook in the WH?

[Codeine]

45. At this moment? Of course. nt

[brush]

46. Unless you mean after the whole report is obtained and hearings held, that makes...

little sense.

Good luck with that, and good luck with another 4 years of trump.