As a Bernie Supporter I think Biden will lose to Trump if he continues to do these steps

[Legends303]

I like Joe Biden as a person and plan on voting for him in the general however, he has made some mistakes that makes me think will cost us in the general.

1. He has come against Medicare for All, poll after poll says Democrats want Medicare for All and this is going to be a damper on enthusiasm from young voters we need to show up.

2. I'm really worried about his debates with Trump in the fall, he says things that we know of uncle Joe that we know that are off putting to voters and Trump will capitalize on to try to win. I won't name them but you know some of the headlines in the news.

3. He is more moderate in his positions then the democratic party of today in general, he still has positions from the 1970s such as busing, foreign policy, and health care.

4. There is an enthusiasm gap between him and Trump, from the ABC poll 53% are enthusiastic to vote for Trump while only 24% for Biden. This is important because Obama won because so many people were excited to vote for him and if Biden can't replicate that enthusiasm we are going to have a very nervous night on November 4th.

5. I know this going to get heat but he needs to convince Liberal personalities such Joe Rogan and TYT, say what you want but they have a lot of sway in the younger generation crowd. One of the reasons we lost in 2016 because we had a divided left.

I think one of things Joe has gone for him is that he was Obama's VP, he will be President if overcomes these flaws.

[gibraltar72]

1. How is this helpful?

[The Magistrate]

6. It Is Not Meant To Be Helpful, Sir

It is meant to support the ongoing program of blackmail the 'Bernie' campaign has dwindled to.






"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Gothmog]

124. The sanders campaign is in effect demanding that the rest of the party bend the knee to sanders

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

sanders lost and I do not feel like giving into the demands of the sanders supporters

[The Magistrate]

127. Nor Do I, Sir

The idea that 'Bernie' would be a superior candidate in a general election is something that only move one to laughter or to tears. The line Republicans would adopt is 'Crazy Bernie the Commie', and with his Marxist past, that line would certainly stick, with anyone born much before 1975 or 1980 at the least.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Your concern is duly noted.

[Eliot Rosewater]

100. The person in the WH is killing us, on purpose, and I guess some folks still demand purity

OR ELSE

I dont know what to say anymore.

[Yavin4]

125. The world is on house arrest. Our economy is shut down. A virus is klling us.

And it's Biden that needs to "step up his game"?!?!

[Eliot Rosewater]

157. AMAZING, isnt it. BTW the woman doctor, forgot her name AND Fauci are lying for rump now

about how if any other living fucking human being had been in charge we would have far less death

[The Magistrate]

3. Your Concern Is Noted, Sir

The sooner people, especially Sanders' well-meaning supporters, get it through their heads, 'Bernie' is not campaigning for President, the better it will be for our people and our country.

The fact is Sanders campaigns not to gain the Democratic Party's nomination for President, but to weaken if not wreck the 'Democratic Establishment'. For 'Bernie', ousting Trump and ending the Republican majority in the Senate is barely an afterthought to this long-standing purpose. Once Sanders' supporters face this fact squarely, they may be able to decide honestly what their best course in this election is: voting against 'Bernie' in any future primary, and for Mr. Biden and Democrats all down the ticket to the lowest office on the ballot come November.

It is probably true that Sanders sees destroying the 'Democratic Establishment' as an essential precondition to defeating Trump et al, and so by his own lights he means it when he says he will do all he can to defeat Trump. But that belief is so self-serving and delusional it deserves not just scorn but contempt.

As with Trump, the only real cure is to deprive the man of the oxygen of worshipful attention. The effect would be that of a bucket of water on the wicked witch of Oz....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[leftieNanner]

80. Well Stated Magistrate

I hadn't thought of it that way. Destroy the "Democratic Establishment" is very likely the goal. SMDH

[doc03]

4. Your concern is noted nt

[jorgevlorgan]

5. It would be smart for him to move towards medicare for all, or at least something where premiums and

copays are far closer to 0 than they are now. I think the further he shifts to the left, the more amenable to independent voters he will become.

[The Magistrate]

9. Medicare For All, Sir, Is A Mere Marketing Slogan

Sanders could not produce a workable specific if his life depended on it. A mere sloganeering mountebank.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[jorgevlorgan]

11. I think that medicare for all has had specific practical solutions in both his and Warren's plans.

Right now, even folks with insurance cannot afford their healthcare. Whether it be medicare for all, or a public option -Biden would do well to make practical solutions for those folks.

[The Magistrate]

17. Professor Warren Had Some Specifics, Sir

Sanders seems to repel detail and planning like an oilcloth does rain. This is a habit people pick up when they have long known they will never actually have to apply policy and take responsibility for consequences.

"So much of politics on the left amounts to playing with fire by people who don't even know fire is hot."






"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[jorgevlorgan]

25. For me, if my wife is not paying $30 for a $250 inhaler that she paid a $40 copay to see her doctor

for the new prescription, after paying $350 a month for insurance already, which will completely be lost if something happens to our jobs because of the economy -I'll be happy. Until then, I don't really care who's idea it is: The current system does not work for us and is killing others.

[The Magistrate]

33. The Affordable Care Act, Sir, Saved One Life In My Immediate Circle

I hold no particular brief for the present system, it is at best ramshackle. But it is not something that can be extirpated root and branch.

[jorgevlorgan]

39. The ACA, with the medicare expansion is an excellent improvement to the former system we had.

Unfortunately, there are still too many suffering from high premiums, copays and skyrocketing prescription drugs. I hope Biden has a way to address those folks and implement policy based on healthcare being a human right, and not a commodity only for those with jobs and who can afford it.

[The Magistrate]

54. And Much Of That Problem Is Deliberate Sabotage By The Right, Sir

I think it best to repair the damage to President Obama's enactment, and build upon it. I certainly support, and supported, a public option to compete with private insurance. I suspect many employers, were there such a thing, would be glad to unload the cost of insurance as an employee benefit they must bear. But know in advance I will not vote for so flawed a messenger as Sanders, who would be cut to pieces as 'Crazy Bernie the Commie' in a general election, nor would I fail to vote for Mr. Biden over the cheap thug Trump even if he came foursquare out against the policy I desire. The overriding need of the hour is to beat back the worst elements of the christo-fascist reactionary right, and I have no patience with anyone who purports to be a leftist and does not see this.

[jorgevlorgan]

59. Absolutely agreed on the sabotage part. And how scotus totally undermined any progress at every

chance. For me, I care less about the messenger, and more about whether we can succeed with practical progressive policies or not.

[The Magistrate]

63. Practical Policies Depend On The Messenger, Sir

'Bernie' cannot deliver, that is the long and the short of the matter.

[jorgevlorgan]

68. Bernie's irrelevant.

The onus of proposing these practical policies is solely on the expectant Democratic nominee.

[The Magistrate]

71. Than He Had Better Sit Down, Sir, And Cease Threats Of Blackmail

"Now that is cool. A highwayman puts a gun to my head and says give me your money, or I shall have to shoot you, and you will become a murderer."

[jorgevlorgan]

75. I haven't paid much attention to Bernie since he lost super tuesday.

I recommend others do themselves a favor and follow suit.

[DAngelo136]

62. I am a Socialist

And I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment.

[The Magistrate]

65. Actually, Sir, So Am I

At bottom, it is the view that what a society produces ought to belong to the society, and not to private parties who superintend facets of its production, and appropriate to themselves a disproportionate quantity of the society's produce. It does not, and never has, meant either autocratic state control or diveying up everything into equal shares. Capital, the surplus of what is produced over what its production costs, is the engine that drives new economic activity, and would do so whether it was administered by public or private means. Humans being involved, one can expect log-rolling and sharp practice in any case, but with public administration, however contrived within a democratic polity, it ought to be more difficult for a few individuals to extract value in greatly disproportionate share from society's capital.

Marxism is something different. Marxism is a particular theory of how socialism will emerge from capitalism. Marx saw this as something which would inevitably occur as industrialization reached its peaks, producing of necessity a trained and regimented work-force, who would be subjected to extreme penury owing the concentration of capital in ever fewer hands, and who would come to understand they actually controlled the mines and factories, etc., on which capitalism's profits depended. This he supposed would occur first in countries like England and Germany, France and Belgium. Nothing of the sort happened, and a variety of people enchanted by the theory, and its promise success was inevitable, set about trying to figure out ways to redeem the promise. Lenin's view was that imperial expansion was what was delaying the inevitable emergence of socialism, and he conceived further the idea that establishment of socialism by revolution might be achieved through forcing accelerated development of a backward, largely feudal society such fin de siecle Russia. At this point it should be obvious that Lenin's program had little to do with the original ground of Marxism, and as Orwell observed, 'one does not establish a dictatorship to preserve a revolution, one makes a revolution to establish a dictatorship'.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

93. The ACA saved my life also

Before it I was uninsurable.

[mcar]

70. I'm so old I remember when M4A/Sanders supporters turned

on E Warren as soon as she offered specifics, like how to pay for it.

[BidenBacker]

14. Not only would that make him less "amenable" to Indies

it would make him less appealing to Democrats.

Medicare for All a Vote Loser in 2018 U.S. House Elections

http://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/medicare-for-all-a-vote-loser-in-2018-u-s-house-elections/

M4A is a loser right now. It's a shame it's that way but it is what it is. Shifting to the left is a recipe for disaster...and this is coming from somebody who would love to see that happen eventually.

[jorgevlorgan]

34. Medicare for all support however has peaked up substantially since it's lowest point in 2018 -after

insurance companies spent billions to change folks minds. I think this current outbreak is persuasive in that way...

[BidenBacker]

46. Hope you're right and that we eventually get there as a nation

But considering who is in office at the moment we just can't take that chance.

[jorgevlorgan]

49. We can propose policy that benefits more people.

Even if it isn't to the degree that Bernie or Warren have done.

[BidenBacker]

76. I think that's exactly what Biden will do

just don't force him to commit to anything before the GE that Goppers will then use to bludgeon him with and cost us the votes in the middle we desperately need that will make or break this election.

And hope to hell that Trump and his "capitalists" haven't blown $10 trillion by the time Joe gets into office to prop up the economy or we'll have nothing to work with. We'll have to spend most of Biden's term(s) cleaning up the stinking shitpile Pubbies left behind just like Obama did after Dubya took us to the very brink of the Second Great Republican Depression.

[jorgevlorgan]

78. His VP will be telling, and indicative of -I think, his performance in the GE.

[BidenBacker]

83. Possibly

To make things even more interesting rumor has it the Fuhrer may dump Pence and go with somebody new like Nikki Haley.

Like putting lipstick on a pig.

[jorgevlorgan]

86. I'm encouraged byt he fact that Biden's GE polling is improving the closer we get to November.

the infected dumpster diver doesn't seem to do himself many favors right now.

[BidenBacker]

90. I really believe we'll be fine

Pretty sure Joe will win every state that Hillary did and I'd be shocked if blue PA & MI don't rejoin the fold after a severe bout of temporary insanity. Which means all Biden's gotta do is just win 1 outta a half dozen or so purple swing states and we're in, albeit by a squeaker. Win several and it'll approach an electoral landslide like Obama had back in 2008.

At some point you just gotta have faith that the majority of your fellow Americans will come to their senses and demonstrate that we are still a good and decent people as a whole even if we have far too many assholes among us. And if not, well...then we pretty much deserve whatever bad shit awaits us and resign ourselves to the fact that we might very well live in a country that is no longer worth saving. That may sound fatalistic or cynical but I use it as rationalization if we can't convince enough people to do what is so obviously the right thing to do.

[Historic NY]

126. First he going to have to reverse the damage to come back up to a workable base line ...

granted there were thing in the initial law that got jammed into it that need fixing.

[DAngelo136]

77. I Disagree With You

Medicare For All is not a "loser"; it's just not a winner, yet. Present circumstances will pave the way for it's eventual adoption. Even faster if my fellow Leftists would get out of the way. I agree with The Magistrates assessment of the situation. While Biden is nowhere near my idea of a candidate, for what's needed; he'll do for now.
Sanders supporters refuse to acknowledge that he isn't a good candidate. While his ideas (which were already articulated by Jesse Jackson and Dennis Kucinich earlier) are popular, he is not.
And while I will be forever grateful that he made it possible for Socialists like me to operate in the political sphere again, it is time for him to bow out gracefully and let a new generation of activists and politicians advance the agenda. But as for right now, my first and only mission is to get Trump and the Republicans out of office at every level possible.

[BidenBacker]

96. Let me clarify

M4A is a "loser" from the standpoint of this election...certainly not as a long-term policy objective. If we stupidly piss away this election we will not only not get any improvement that Biden has in mind but we will end up with a system that is even worse than it already is. You can bet your ass Trump and the GOP will make sure of that.

You see, I am a borderline "socialist" myself when it comes to many issues. But I am also an engineer who can count and got paid well to do so accurately my entire professional career. The numbers just aren't there yet and if Bernie's folks continue to act as if they are we will get crushed.

It's not terribly difficult to figure out how much rocket fuel one needs to make it to orbit or the Moon...and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that Bernie's rocket is running on fumes. The sooner Sanders splashes down and gets the hell outta the way the faster we can finally get on with the REAL launch. I can't think of too many things I want more right now than to watch Trump burn up on reentry come November 3, 2020.

[gibraltar72]

15. Perhaps if Bernie quit burning the bridges

we could get there as soon as we get Trump to quit killing us. The health care system is going to show its deficiencies. Perhaps something like party unity would have value then.

[jorgevlorgan]

45. I don't care about Bernie. He's most likely irrelevant at this point. The question is what will

Biden do now to address the needs of the vast majority of people who cannot afford their premiums, copays, or are uninsured? His current proposal is realistic, but doesn't hit at the heart of what many see as the underlying problem. It will be nice to see him pivot towards a solution that benefits more folks.

[thucythucy]

42. You do understand, don't you, that Medicare only covers 80%

of most bills, has fairly substantial co-payments, and also has a fairly significant monthly premium? So much so that many if not most people on Medicare have to buy an additional private policy so that they don't lose their life savings/home/retirement after one hospitalization. If, for instance, you run up a $400,000 hospital bill (and intensive care will do that) if all you have is Medicare you end up owing $80,000. For someone with limited means (most seniors) that's financial disaster.

Also, Medicare doesn't cover eye exams, any dental, and many medications.

Medicaid for all would be the better option, and in fact under Obama-care states were encouraged to expand Medicaid to cover millions more people.

[jorgevlorgan]

47. That is way better than what a lot of people have right now, anyways.

Which is unaffordable premiums and copays, or no insurance at all.

[thucythucy]

60. Possibly, but since Bernie has yet to show us how he intends

to pass this wonderful solution to all our problems, it's difficult to see how voters not already in our camp will be persuaded.

As others have pointed out (many times now) if Medicare for All was such a winning slogan, Bernie would have won and you wouldn't be here lecturing people on what Biden has to do to win you over.

BTW, Biden did very well in his debate one on one with Bernie. Indeed, I was not impressed with Bernie's performance in any of the debates. He came off to me like a lefty Bret Kavinaugh, all whiny and entitled.

I originally supported Elizabeth Warren. I think she would have done far better if Bernie had dropped out as soon as she announced. She has better ideas and an actual record of accomplishment in getting her ideas passed. And as a debater? Did you see the way she dismantled Bloomberg? Put her on the same stage with Trump and his head would explode.

Bernie did the progressive cause a real disservice by staying in and hoarding the attention that should have gone to Senator Warren. And his surrogates didn't help matters by attacking her the way they did.

Odd that nobody is posting suggestions for what Bernie has to do to win over voters, considering how he's losing and all.

[jorgevlorgan]

67. Bernie is irrelevant.

His campaign is virtually over. The onus of giving us a solution is now on the expected Democratic nominee. He can stick with what he has, or he can provide even more practical ideas that can benefit the common good.

[thucythucy]

82. "Stick with what he has..."

Have you actually seen his health care plan?

If you go to his website he spells it out in quite a bit of detail.

What about his plan bothers you, specifically?

[jorgevlorgan]

84. I actually like it.

It probably wouldn't be too difficult to broaden the potential coverage, which is an option. But if he stuck with what he has -I would be happy. Although I'm not speaking for anybody else who may think it isn't going close to far enough.

[thucythucy]

88. Okay. I guess i misunderstood where you were coming from.

I actually like his plan as well.

I also think that, if and when he accomplishes these goals, he'll move on to build on it further.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

95. My ACA plan is very affordable

as I'm sure many others who have it will attest.

[jorgevlorgan]

98. "many," was the operative word in my post.

Not everybody, of course.

[Aquaria]

107. Biden is winning the voters most inclined

To supporting M4a while being cautious about going that route right now.

It is not the hill to plant a flag on right now, when we’re barely hanging by a thread with ACA. If we lose that, there won’t be M4a to take its place. The winning issue is shoring up and expanding on the ACA. That has broad appeal, unlike M4A, which is nice enough in theory, but will be expensive in costs and political capital in practice.

Supporting ACA was the meal ticket in taking back the house in 2018. It can win again for Biden in 2020.

[Pompoy]

160. No, the way to win is to make Trump the issue, not socialism

Making this election a referendum on socialism in America isn't a winning strategy. We all know what the Democrats stand for, no need to demand unpopular change.
Most of the country isn't ready for immediate change, a huge increase in taxes that would surely affect the economy.
We have to win them over by first giving them a chance to trust us.
Right now too many distrust the Democrats, it's too close.

We need more consensus before we impose change this huge and strange to them.
Priority number one is to get Trump out by making him the issue.

[showblue22]

7. Joe Rogan and TYT???

FUCK NO!!!

He would lose way more voters than what you think he will gain! WTF kind of shit of this?

[thucythucy]

44. I saw that too.

The TYT candidate in California picked up what? A whopping eight percent of the vote?

Yeah, trying to impress TYT is an absolutely winning strategy.

[showblue22]

72. 4%. Lol

Cenk got a whooping 4% of the vote.

[thucythucy]

79. OMG!

But but.. .millions of liberals watch him on YouTube!

[Polybius]

150. It's not a progressive district, for what it's worth

Very moderate.

[Walleye]

8. Young non-voters won't vote at all. We should know this by now.

They think it’s not cool or something. Wouldn’t matter who was running.

[fantase56]

10. A Berniecrat eh?

Enjoy your stay ...

[Cha]

12. "As a BS supporter" of course you do.. BS & his Agenda LOST

and it took him 4x the $$$ to do than it did Joe Biden To WIN.

[bucolic_frolic]

23. +100x

Grammar is a dead give-away. Awkward use of language.

[Walleye]

35. Hmm. I think you are right.

[Happy Hoosier]

16. Rogan and Cenk can go fuck themselves. NT

[Hav]

18. I'm really trying hard

but when strawman after strawman and arguments based on flawed premises are presented, it's hard to have a meaningful discussion. It just seems that some are trapped in their opinions and go with it no matter what.

If Democrats were so overwhelmingly persuaded of Medicare for all, they would have voted for the candidate who ran on it. Biden is did well in the 1:1 debate and looked like the adult in the room in comparison to BS. Biden has proven often enough he can talk on a range of issues in contrast to Trump who is ignorant on any issue.

And Joe Rogan is a liberal now but Biden is too moderate for today's Democratic party? Wtf...
And please, don't start with TYT. They are absolutely horrible and pushing the Biden is senile smears. Have you watched them recently? I barely watched them just for the entertainment of seeing them implode and still found them disgusting. If we can move on and leave these deplorables behind, then I'm all for it.

[PubliusEnigma]

19. Any more demands? Get real.

Joe Biden is real.

Bernie is a pipe dream.

[Galraedia]

20. Joe Rogan and TYT? LMFAO

[Legends303]

38. Reason why I mentioned them they have the largest Liberal audience on the Internet

They get millions of views on youtube. Like or not it he needs to try to appeal to them.

[thucythucy]

51. If that's the case why did Cenk's primary run in California bomb the way it did?

TYT can't get voters to support its candidate in California, you really think it'll pull in voters in Michigan, Florida, Virginia?

You want to see "largest liberal audience on the Internet" check out The Late Show monologues with Stephen Colbert.

TYT by contrast is a tiny niche audience.

Cenk may be popular among the Bernie Bros and the bots, but I know a misogynist when I see one.

[eilen]

132. TYT isn't even on my radar

They ceased to have any relevance to me after 2016.

[TwilightZone]

57. The Rogan "endorsement" is when Bernie lost AOC.

If you manage to drive off one of your staunchest supporters, you might want to rethink your strategy.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-bernie-sanders-campaign-rallies_n_5e6ade51c5b6bd8156f44356

[Galraedia]

61. TYT isn't liberal, it's fauxrogressive. It's audience is largely anti-democrat or conservative

trolls.

[sheshe2]

118. How does one know the viewers are liberals?

For that matter how in the world would we know their party affiliation. Is there a form one fills out to view Utube? News to me.

Fact is Cenk doesn't like Dems very much, vilified Hillary. He just ran for the congressional primary, Katie Hills seat...barely got 8% of the vote. Sad, guess Dems don't like him that much.

[George II]

143. The thing is they're neither "liberal" nor "progressive".

[ehrnst]

144. What's your source for those stats?

And perhaps you're confusing "left" with "liberal."

We'll discuss that when you've provided your sources for the stats in your claim.

[NYC Liberal]

161. They aren't liberals.

[bucolic_frolic]

21. I am suspicious of English as a Second Language posts /nt

[B Stieg]

27. Straight outa St. Petersburg.

[CatMor]

22. So according to what you wrote,Biden has no redeeming values ..

in spite of leading Sanders in delegates and leading trump in many polls. Your argument doesn't hold water.

[disndat]

24. Don't worry

He and Obama will pick a slam-bang VP plus, all the top Democratic people like Obama and Nancy Pelosi will
campaign with him.

[Normanart]

123. VP pick

I think the VP choice is a make-or-break decision. I would like to see a nationally known woman of color, someone that could diminish the "old white guy" image Biden represents. My personal favorite is Stacey Abrams. Any other suggestions?

[rzemanfl]

26. NTSA.

[GP6971]

28. Stir the pot much?

A Sanders supporter, but you're Undecided?? What's with that?

[ucrdem]

29. ElizabethWarren embraced "Medicare for All" and it sank her campaign.

Immediately. She never regained the position she lost the night she said "I'm with Bernie" in a summer debate. It was dramatic.

[ucrdem]

122. p.s. Kamala, too, endorsed M4A and that was all she wrote.

Kiss of death, because it's not about the policy and never was.

Biden knows what he's doing rest assured.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

30. There won't be any debates.

Trump is already saying that he'll probably not participate in the ones sponsored by the non-partisan League of Women Voters, because the the questioners will be "unfair" to him. He says he wants debates put together by a commercial enterprise.

Fat Donnie knows how badly he came off against Hillary at each one of the 2016 debates. He doesn't know how to debate -- he can only call people names, throw out insults, and claim the debate (and election) is rigged against him.

#PitifulPresident

[Locrian]

31. brave post - thanks

Unfortunately I think you will not find much serious response to your post.
Nothing you have posted is inflammatory or outrageous - if we cannot bring up discussion then we are no better than echo chambers.
I see very similar major issues, and I'm just tired of the emotional and indignant responses.

Good luck.

[Aquaria]

111. That's rich

Methinks you don’t know what the word serious means if you believe the people who are criticizing this unrealistic, emotion-laden “argument” aren’t being serious in their criticisms—all of which are entirely legitimate and based on reality.

[Mike Nelson]

32. Interesting points...

... however, I think some of them will be strengths in the General Election. I would consider enthusiasm to be a problem. The Deplorables had more of that last time and they will have it again. What's different is that voters are not going to stay home thinking "she'll win, he can't win." That doesn't work twice.

[Generic Brad]

36. No one is enthused over Bernie

If they were, Democrats would have voted for him and he would own the irrefutable lead.

We're not buying what you're selling. Good day.

I said, Good day!

[jimlup]

37. Thank you!

speaking truth to power against the rank and file here isn't easy.

They will attempt to belittle you. Don't be swayed. The will talk down to you. Don't be swayed. They will act like you are marginal and inconsiderate. Don't be swayed.

They need to be pushed to realize the truth. They may never but we can only continue to try.

[Aquaria]

113. Funny how arguing from a position of reason

And reality is always interpreted as belittling and “talking down to” people unacquainted with either.

Your passive-aggressive belittling of those with legitimate criticism of the typical “progressive” wishful thinking assertions with only vapor to back them up is duly noted.

[The Magistrate]

116. When You Say 'Speak Truth To Power', Sir, Do You Know What Happens?

Last edited Tue Mar 31, 2020, 02:06 AM - Edit history (1)

Well, what happens is God kills a kitten. A cute fluffy little lovable kitten. Please don't make God kill another kitten, Mister. Don't say 'speak truth to power' ever again. Please, please make that promise, Sir, to all the cute little kittens left in this world....











"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[betsuni]

120. This is true. "Speaking truth to power" was a perfectly fine expression when used

correctly against actual power. But now! Save the kittens.

[Gothmog]

40. Thank you for your concern but your advise will and should be ignored

Most of your advise is wrong and the rest will only help get trump re-elected. In a general election, Biden can not advance a poorly thought out policy such as sanders medicare for all plan without having a plan to pay for it and a way for this plan to be adopted without a magical voter revolution. Again, taking health care from 165 million voters is a sure loser

You do realize that none of sanders agenda could be adopted in the real world even is sanders was the nominee and somehow was elected. I am convinced that if sanders was the nominee, trump would win 45+ states and Kevin McCarthy would be the next Speaker of the House. All of sanders proposals depended on a magical voter revolution that would somehow force the GOP to be reasonable. In the real world sanders has zero significant legislative accomplishments and in the real world no serious candidate relies on a magical voter revolution.

As for TYT and Rogan, are you kidding? These idiots are poison. Heck, AOC ran away from sanders due to the Rogan stupidity. Who pays attention to Cenk and TYT other than JPR posters and 4% of the voters in the race he lost.

Again, thank you for your concern but your advise should be and will be ignored.

[BidenBacker]

41. Some of these BSers make me wanna pull my hair out

Their final destination is admirable but the route they think they should take to get them there is laughable.

I live about an hour from the Grand Canyon. It would be great if we could directly go from the South Rim to the North Rim. But we have to drive around it...takes a lot longer but we eventually get there, and safely.

Bernie's brigades wanna go this way...only to end up at the bottom of the Snake River abyss.

Evel's boy Robbie did manage to get across the Canyon on a motorcycle, but he sure did need some serious health care after he made it (35:00)...

Moral of the story...often the long way around is the safest and surest way around.

[LakeArenal]

43. With respect that is all due....

Biden needs 0.0 advice from an actual Bernie Supporter. Let alone someone who won’t come out of their Bernie Supporter closet.

Actually Biden needs 0.0 advice from his most ardent supporter. Me.

[BGBD]

48. well,

Bernie supporters wouldn't know much about winning would they?

[tirebiter]

50. Bernie is the one who needs advice

Otherwise he’d be ahead in delegates
Bernie should’ve listened to real life revolutionaries like Clyburn, but he passed on that opportunity.

[TwilightZone]

52. Bernie's campaign took a nose dive about the time Rogen "endorsed" him.

And people like AOC started to distance themselves from him.

Pandering to jackasses like Rogan will get us nowhere.

[kcr]

53. " I know this going to get heat but he needs to convince Liberal personalities such Joe Rogan"

At least you're providing DU with some entertainment.

[Dan]

55. You forget the downright hate of Trump.

[still_one]

56. From the campaign who appears unable to win the Democratic nomination, giving advice on the GE

[NNadir]

58. As a Biden Supporter, I think you still believe that Senator Sanders is winning by a landslide.

Um, he isn't. His ideas have been rejected.

[Me.]

64. THE YOUNG TURKS?

now I know you're just fooling around, just like no one but you and a few others want them around. Didn't Cenk just lose big time? Take a hint.

[Sloumeau]

66. Your concern is duly noted. :) nt

[mcar]

69. Thanks for your concern

[NNadir]

73. Oh, one more thing...

It seems like Senator Sanders loves to talk about what people thought in the 1970's.

They carp and carp and carp and carp on what people said in the 1970s.

There is a thing called "changing one's mind." People who are intellectually flexible do that all that time. It's called "competence."

Ms. Warren is an example of someone who can change her mind. This makes her competent.

Anyone who thinks that one should not change their mind about anything - and this is the case with Senator Sanders who has not had an original thought since 1969 - is incompetent, and in fact, Trumpian by nature.

If you are still carrying on about what you believed in 1969 (assuming you're old enough to do so) that makes you incompetent and unworthy of consideration for any position of responsibility.

We are living in 2020, not 1969.

[napi21]

74. First: Don't worry about a debate between JB & DT. DT will refuse to do it! Second, Joe is doing

what he should be doing right now. Speaking out about what HE would do if he were Prez now. He's done some recent ads that are great in showing the errors of DT & how he would do better.

DT's #'s might be up a bit now, but this crisis is showing people just how incompetent he really is & the Governors are showing how it should be done daily!

I believe we should be working out how we're going to get DT out of the WH when he looses & refuses to leave!

[BidenBacker]

87. That would be kinda cool

Watching US Marshals in a firefight with the Secret Service on the White House lawn to oust the one-termer who refused to accept the will of the American People.

Okay, so we all have a little sadist in us.

[Aquaria]

115. It won't come to that.

The Secret Service detail can’t do shit to interfere if law enforcement has a legitimate reason to arrest him. Refusing to leave the White House would be not only trespassing, but also a national security threat.

His SS detail will step back and do fuck all while the treasonous fat fuck is jacked up. They’ll even take open delight in it after he’s spent four years treating them like gofers. That’s because they got used to being treated with respect under Obama, and those dudes have LOOOOOONNNGGG memories.

[Celerity]

91. Almost zero chance Trump will refuse to debate, he thinks he can destroy Biden in a live one-on-one

He has a monstrous ego, and thinks he is a walking demigod at this point.

The only variable at this point is COVID-19.

[thucythucy]

85. "One of the reasons we lost in 2016 because we had a divided left..."

And Bernie seems intent on repeating that performance, and here you are helping him to do that.

[Thekaspervote]

89. You're entitled to your opinion, most wholeheartedly disagree

[BidenBacker]

92. Click away, folks

https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/road-to-270-2020/

This is almost as good as ESPN's NFL Playoff Machine.

[UncleNoel]

94. Responses 1 by 1:

1. Biden has been responding aggressively to Trump in a situation in which it is difficult to gasin traction. He is in GE mode and Sanders support is hindering it.

2. Voters prefer the private option at this point from the practicality position.

3. Voters are more moderate than Democratic party activists think and Joe's primary votes to date support that.

4. Enthusiasm does not yield votes in the voting booth, but jpractical concerns and a feeling of wanting a normal, healthy life.

5. The divided left is in the hands of those who divide = Sanders supporters. This is the call to get behind Biden and not cause divisiveness because of ideological purity.

Don't buy your argument.

[BidenBacker]

101. You keep going 5-for-5

and you're a cinch to win the DU batting title.

[GP6971]

99. what was your

previous username?

[marble falls]

102. Same as this one: Post Removed. Am I psychic or what?

[GP6971]

105. Yes you are!!

I was tempted to ask what their favorite pizza was, but I refrained.

[marble falls]

106. It was only fair to ask. He mighta self deleted but he was on the radar all ready. How you been?

[GP6971]

108. Been good.

I figured they were on the radar. I was probably one of many that alerted on the post.

Like many, we've been hunkered down, but have to go grocery shopping in a couple of days. Not looking forward to it. Other than that, we're doing well...bored, but doing well. It is what it is.

[marble falls]

112. We're a smaller town with a lot of snowbirds who haven't left and ...

a lot of weekend ranchers who've all moved in full time at the same time and stripped the grocery stores having moved in along with 'moma'n'them'.

But we go out once a week to get produce and if we time it right we'll get a pkg o'tp in the next coupla weeks.

Stay healthy and don't let one of the Trump yahoos sneeze on you.

My wife hasn't kilt me yet. And thats kinda amazing.

[The Magistrate]

114. Ah, Yes, Sir --- What Do You Want On Your Tombstone?

That takes me back. Decades ago was in Medford were they made those. Not too bad a little burg....

[GP6971]

117. Good to see you again!!

I still wish we had the tombstone. Days gone by.

[KitSileya]

129. Medford, OR?

Really? I'm a Duck, myself.

[The Magistrate]

147. Wisconsin, Ma'am

The pizza plant and the fur trade seemed to be the principal employers in the town. That was a long, long time ago.

[TwilightZone]

103. Another hit-and-run post.

I sense a pattern.

[Aquaria]

104. As if Biden needs advice about winning

From those supporting a candidate who couldn’t get within sniffing distance of a party nomination—TWICE. If you can’t figure out how to appeal to Democrats in a primary, you certainly don’t know what it takes to win the general election.

M4A is a fail. The two candidates who supported it the most went down in flames over it. Get the hint. If that’s not enough, it’s DOA with elderly people and those who know their health situations well. They know how expensive Medicare is—even with supplemental private insurance. If I’m going to pay higher taxes and higher out of pocket for private gap and dental and vision policies too, then where’s the benefit over private insurance?

Biden will be fine in the debates. He was able to take down a younger and smarter Paul Ryan with ease. And at least he’s quick in his feet with a memorable comeback. BS only has his “make everything about my one-trick pony issue.” Biden will be fine against Dolt45, because he’s got better street smarts than Hillary had. I don’t think you realize how Joe can go low and do bare-knuckle political brawling, if he has to. He’s from Scranton, for pity’s sake! They know all about fighting hard there. If he does anything, it will be scaring the shit out of Fatty McDumbass, because Handsome Joe is a scrapper behind that polished facade, not a coward pretending to be tough, unlike his November opponent.

As for Biden being somehow more moderate? Guess what? He’s still winning with a Democratic electorate that is further left than voters he needs to win over in November! No matter how much you might wish it weren’t so, the general electorate isn’t further left, so Biden going further left makes zero sense.

And for crying out loud, you’re worried about an enthusiasm gap, in fricking MARCH? Most non-incumbent candidates in March are still building their appeal. As it is, again, we don’t need advice on voting enthusiasm from the supporters of a guy who is getting clobbered by such a “boring” candidate in the primaries. Biden is getting plenty more people enthused enough in the only way that matters: By getting them off their asses to go vote for him. How’s that working out for BS? Not so good, huh? The enthusiasm will come, especially if BS will concede so the party can unify behind the guy who had plenty more enthusiasm to get voters to the polls.

Biden also doesn’t need the likes of Rogan or TYT to win. I realize BSers live in their own little bubble, so here’s a newsflash for you: 95% of the voting electorate has no idea who Rogan or TYT are, and wouldn’t give a shit what they think if they did know. If Biden’s already winning the voters in a party most inclined to listen to those nitwits, then he can certainly expect to win without those same nitwits in the general election.

In the end, I’ll trust the guy who’s been half of the team that won a general election—TWICE. He knows more about it than someone supporting a crank who lost a primary—TWICE, and still doesn’t grasp why the crank lost.

[Galraedia]

109. As a Bernie supporter why are you undecided?

That for me is a red flag right there.

[Legends303]

110. I'm undecided but I was always leaning towards Sanders

nothing wrong with that.

[Demsrule86]

119. Bernie could not beat Biden...so you are wrong...and he wiped the floor with Bernie during

the debates...and let me say that if that Sander's voters were not enthusiastic enough to show up...so It think we will be fine...now you support a person who cant win and support a campaign that as we speak attacks the presumptive nominee thus I think I will put you on ignore...see you on the other side.

[Happy Hoosier]

121. LOL! Thanks fir your "concern"

[fallout87]

128. Agreed with everything you said

And dont be discouraged by the naysayers.. there are many here that would like to circumvent democracy and end the primaries before the convention... dont listen to them. I know I dont as well as many many others that I know.

[NurseJackie]

134. Losing is hard. Bernie lost. It's over.

Grieving time is over, too. We've known for a VERY long time now that Bernie is the loser and Joe is the winner. Bernie will not be our party's nominee. It's time to get with the program and focus our efforts on defeating Trump and the GOP. The continued attacks on Biden... trying to kneecap him, trying to weaken him... those things only serve to benefit Trump. Bernie will NOT be our party's nominee. Accept it and move on.


Joe/Kamala or Biden/Harris 2020!!
Jump on the Biden Bandwagon & abandon the revolution!!

[TwilightZone]

137. It doesn't matter whether or not you think it's over.

It is, indeed, over, barring something happening to Biden, such as a withdrawal due to illness, etc. Is that what you're banking on? Certainly seems like Bernie is.

"like to circumvent democracy "

Nah, that assertion is the same bullshit it's always been. Candidates drop out before the convention nearly every cycle, and it has nothing to do with democracy. Sanders isn't unique, nor are his supporters, other than that they seem to be hoping for the worst from and for Biden.

[eilen]

130. First off, by the time this pandemic winds down

The government is going to have to bail out the hospitals if they want them to remain open. This will necessitate some major changes.

Healthcare will look much different. Medicare for all is just one idea. It is not any kind of gold standard. I don't think anyone can describe exactly what it looks like. Medicare is just a payer with particular coverages right now.. coverage that is 80% with 20% self pay or paid by gap insurance (a separate policy). This entire idea is based upon the current system. This system is going to change and it is not going to be a choice.

My advice for Biden is to hire some good industry prognosticators, run the numbers on a sample of major hospital systems because everyone is hemorrhaging revenue. If a hospital is not overrun by Covid19 patients, half their staff is sent home d/t low census to save money. That includes management and clinicians.

[beachbumbob]

131. are you a russian bot?

[Sunlei]

133. I don't think your op is 'helpful' at all, it's devisive to the D party & incorrect about Biden.

If you're really a Sanders primary voter or a Biden supporter, get that undecided off your name...it makes it look like you won't support the D party in the general election!

[TwilightZone]

138. That's a feature, not a bug.

It's just another hit-and-run post intended to disrupt.

The poster is clearly a Sanders support - ostensibly, anyway - based on their other posts.

[Sunlei]

139. ostensibly, but "perhaps not really" I agree & it is a hit and run intended to disrupt.

OP shouldn't use Biden or Sanders names if they aren't really a supporter of either person or the D party.

His post is a Biden hit list intended to disrupt and test to see what 'crafted issues' resonate.

They usually start these kind of OPs with "I'm a _______ supporter"

[betsuni]

135. As Bernie Supporter, Biden will lose in five easy steps!

[Scurrilous]

136. That was pretty bad.

You're not cut out for this.

'...he still has positions from the 1970s such as busing, foreign policy, and health care.' I mean, c'mon.

[Hortensis]

140. No, Sanders' slimy behaviors and obscure goals are why he's rejected.

While Sanders is slandering Biden, THIS is what Biden's doing:

Link to tweet

Btw, we WOULD have universal healthcare, or close to, now if Sanders hadn't set out to sabotage the ACA and destroy confidence that the Democrats would finish the job. How many people will have suffered without insurance and even died because Sanders didn't want DEMOCRATS to do it? Any chance one of them is you yet?

[Dem4Life1102]

141. Younger voters are not going to show up

That is and has always been a fool's errand. They didn't show up for Sanders and won't show up in November regardless of who is the nominee.

And Joe Rogan is not a liberal, he's a racist.

[Codeine]

142. M4A didn't inspire youth turnout for Bernie,

why would a lack of it depress youth turnout for Biden? Logic fail.

Worries about the debates? He beat Bernie’s ass, he will wipe the floor with Trump.

Bernie not only has 70s positions, he still has the same stump speech!

And seriously, shove that Joe Rogan/TYT shit right back where it came from.

[ehrnst]

145. He "still" has positions on "bussing" from the '70's?

I'm not seeing 70's positions on foreign policy from Joe, but I see a LOT of positions from Bernie that haven't changed with new information or changes in world events.

By that metric Bernie "still" has positions on how the Democratic Party is "no different" than the GOP, and that siting a nuclear waste dump in an affordable housing area for hispanics in TX, and subsequently profiting financially from it.

[MineralMan]

146. I have noted your concerns.

I do not share them.

[lees1975]

148. 2020 is a different time and your perception of Biden is inaccurate and off-base

These plaform and position decisions don't get made until the convention, especially when there appears to be two candidates going in. Biden will negotiate with Bernie, and will pull in other Democrats who ran. They'll come up with a trump-whipping campaign.

[HarlanPepper]

149. Thanks for your concern. What follows is all the consideration I have given your post.

[Poeraria]

151. When the primary is over (and by primary I mean Bernie's tantrum)...

...Obama will be free to campaign for Joe.

This race hasn't started yet.

[tgards79]

152. Polling on Medicare for All

Most people do not understand, when asked if they support MFA, that they will lose their current private insurance under MFA. Once this is explained to them, they oppose MFA.

Polling on complex subjects is VERY tricky. Do not base policy or preference on it. It's good for easy to understand questions like, who would you vote vote, Biden or Sanders.

[OnDoutside]

153. And yet Joe had beaten Bernie out the gate, while unifying the party

way more than Hillary, and is attracting moderate Republicans and Independents. Trump feared Biden so much, he ended up getting impeached.

And the Democratic primary race is over, so the best thing to do is support the nominee.

[peggysue2]

154. Stop it already!

This is nothing more than another attack on Joe Biden.

1. The Medicare 4 All question has been discussed ad infinitum. The vast majority of Americans see the word 'Medicare' and believe it is the same as the existing program. Both you and I know that's not the case. The overwhelming polls you refer to turn upside down when voters realize the fairy-dust program means gargantuan tax increases. Despite Bernie's insistence that Americans would welcome the tax increases, the reverse is true. And this from a man who can't (or is unwilling) to tell Americans the truth about the overall cost. Yes, Sanders released a 'how I'm going to pay for all the freebies' proposal. But true to form, Bernie's numbers fall far short of his costs.

2. You're 'concern' is noted and filed in my circular file.

3. Joe Biden is a liberal. His views are in sync with the majority of the Democratic Party, the majority of whom do not participate in social media. I know it must come as a shock but twitterverse is not representative of the positions held by the majority of Democratic voters. If in doubt, check out the Hidden Tribes Project conducted and published in the NYT a year ago. You'll find the majority of Dem voters in the 'slightly liberal to moderate to conservative' bracket. Most enlightening. Btw, the statement that Biden holds the same positions on busing, foreign policy and healthcare that he did in the 1970s is an outright lie. You must be confusing him with Bernie Sanders who holds the same, sorry positions he's held for over 40 years.

4. Your RW-position on the 'enthusiasm gap' is a dead giveaway. Recent polls show Biden well ahead of Trump nationally and in the critical swing states. The only people pushing this idea are Republicans and Bernie's sour-pussed supporters. Enthusiasm was a feature of the South Carolina vote and Super Tuesday. Perhaps you missed it.

5. LOL! Appeal to Joe Rogan and TYT? Which would mean what? Joe Biden stepping aside and handing the nomination to Bernie? Or perhaps filling the Democratic platform with every Bernie proposal imaginable? Which is what Hillary attempted to do to assuage Bernie's fire eaters. She was still stabbed in the back with 10-12% of Sanders' supporters voting Trump or third party or staying home to pout.

Fool me once, as they say. Btw, it's gracious of you to point out one of the things Joe has going for him. You really need to work on subtlety.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

155. Well

With unemployment >20% you could beat Trump

[MineralMan]

156. Do you now? How interesting.

I think you're absolutely wrong, and on all points.

[treestar]

158. ...

1. Shoring up Obamacare is a more practical goal and highlights Biden's ties to Obama.

2. I still cannot fathom why anyone thinks Biden would do other than wipe the floor with the Dotard in any debate. The Dotard is an idiot. Biden's worst gaffes at least make sense - they are gaffes for reasons other than lack of wit.

3. Dotard has no positions from the 70s because he has no experience. Busing is only an issue in this primary, Dotard is hardly going to campaign on it. Dotard has much more recent problems than the 70s, so if that is where Biden's problems are, they are over 40 years old.

4. Surely voters this year will be very enthused to get the Dotard out of office. Dotard fatigue has long set in.

5. Dividing of the left need not take place in the general unless the farthest left is being willful. And did they not learn from 2016? Do they really want the Dotard for another 4 years?

[Gothmog]

159. How 'Never Bernie' Voters Threw In With Biden and Changed the Primary

sanders was appealing only to 30% of the party and after South Carolina the rest of the party moved to Joe Biden to stop sanders.

Link to tweet

Rarely has political momentum flipped as quickly as it did in the first half of March, as Mr. Sanders lost serious ground to Mr. Biden before the coronavirus slowed their race. There are well-known reasons for the shift: Moderate candidates like Mr. Buttigieg and Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota rallied around Mr. Biden. He enjoyed demographic advantages, particularly with black voters. And turnout among young voters and liberal nonvoters did not surge, failing to reshape the electorate as Mr. Sanders had hoped.

But beyond ideology, race and turnout, a chief reason for Mr. Biden’s success has little to do with his candidacy. He became a vehicle for Democrats like Ms. King who were supporting other candidates but found the prospect of Mr. Sanders and his calls for political revolution so distasteful that they put aside misgivings about Mr. Biden and backed him instead.

In phone interviews, dozens of Democrats, mostly aged 50 and over, who live in key March primary states like Massachusetts, Virginia, Michigan and Florida, said that Mr. Biden’s appeal went beyond his case for beating President Trump. It was his chances of overtaking Mr. Sanders, the only candidate in the vast Democratic field they found objectionable for reasons personal and political.....

These voters’ willingness to unite against Mr. Sanders helped Democratic Party leaders stave off his insurgent campaign and has made Mr. Biden the all-but-certain Democratic nominee. The convergence behind Mr. Biden also highlights a critical difference between this year’s primary and what happened to the Republican Party in 2016. Four years ago, establishment Republicans were openly skeptical of Mr. Trump after his victories in early primary states, but a fractured field and split primary vote allowed him to amass an insurmountable delegate lead, reshaping the party in the process.....

Ahead of Mr. Sanders’s presidential run in 2020, his campaign did not concern itself with smoothing tensions among voters who supported Mrs. Clinton in 2016. He did not seek the endorsements of many party leaders, who were always unlikely to back him, but could have been swayed from being openly antagonistic to ambivalent.

As a result, after a strong finish in Iowa and wins in New Hampshire and Nevada, Mr. Sanders did not benefit from an assumed truth of presidential campaigns: that early-state victories help bring in voters from other factions. Instead, people like Lori Boerner of McLean, Va., said Mr. Sanders’s performance sent them searching for a candidate who could stop his rise, and after the South Carolina primary, they landed on Mr. Biden.

The vast bulk of the party does not like sanders which is why Joe Biden is going to the nominee