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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:02 AM

 

'Bernie' Is Not Seeking Our Party's Nomination For President

The sooner people get that through their heads, especially his well-meaning supporters, the better it will be for our people and our country.

The fact is Sanders campaigns not to gain the Democratic Party's nomination for President, but to weaken if not wreck the 'Democratic Establishment'. For 'Bernie', ousting Trump and ending the Republican majority in the Senate is barely an afterthought to this long-standing purpose. Once Sanders' supporters face this fact squarely, they may be able to decide honestly what their best course in this election is: voting against 'Bernie' in any future primary, and for Mr. Biden and Democrats all down the ticket to the lowest office on the ballot come November.

It is probably true that Sanders sees destroying the 'Democratic Establishment' as an essential precondition to defeating Trump et al, and so by his own lights he means it when he says he will do all he can to defeat Trump. But that belief is so self-serving and delusional it deserves not just scorn but contempt.

As with Trump, the only real cure is to deprive the man of the oxygen of worshipful attention. The effect would be that of a bucket of water on the wicked witch of Oz....




"What a world, what a world...."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Arrow 108 replies Author Time Post
Reply 'Bernie' Is Not Seeking Our Party's Nomination For President (Original post)
The Magistrate Mar 26 OP
Peacetrain Mar 26 #1
Kahuna Mar 26 #2
Demsrule86 Mar 26 #3
MineralMan Mar 26 #4
William769 Mar 26 #5
The Magistrate Mar 26 #10
William769 Mar 26 #15
The Magistrate Mar 26 #20
William769 Mar 26 #22
True Blue American Mar 26 #45
The Magistrate Mar 26 #47
True Blue American Mar 26 #51
Glorfindel Mar 26 #73
Aquaria Mar 26 #81
The Magistrate Mar 26 #82
geralmar Mar 26 #86
The Magistrate Mar 27 #90
geralmar Mar 28 #91
The Magistrate Mar 28 #92
geralmar Mar 28 #93
MyOwnPeace Mar 31 #102
geralmar Mar 31 #103
TomCADem Mar 31 #99
The Magistrate Mar 31 #100
dalton99a Mar 26 #6
redstatebluegirl Mar 26 #7
showblue22 Mar 26 #8
Turin_C3PO Mar 26 #11
TwilightZone Mar 26 #16
Turin_C3PO Mar 26 #17
The Magistrate Mar 26 #13
Thekaspervote Mar 26 #9
Turin_C3PO Mar 26 #12
Hortensis Mar 26 #14
The Magistrate Mar 26 #24
Hortensis Mar 26 #32
The Magistrate Mar 26 #75
Hortensis Mar 26 #79
Gothmog Mar 26 #18
AnotherMother4Peace Mar 26 #19
NCProgressive Mar 26 #21
ZenDem Mar 26 #23
The Magistrate Mar 29 #97
beastie boy Mar 26 #25
The Magistrate Mar 26 #27
beastie boy Mar 26 #38
The Magistrate Mar 26 #40
beastie boy Mar 26 #68
Hokie Mar 26 #26
The Magistrate Mar 26 #29
AlexSFCA Mar 26 #28
The Magistrate Mar 26 #30
ismnotwasm Mar 26 #31
NoMoreRepugs Mar 26 #33
BootinUp Mar 26 #34
lillypaddle Mar 26 #35
The Magistrate Mar 26 #37
True Blue American Mar 26 #49
Frances Mar 26 #55
The Magistrate Mar 26 #59
MarianJack Mar 26 #36
The Magistrate Mar 26 #39
MarianJack Mar 26 #83
The Magistrate Mar 26 #84
MarianJack Mar 26 #85
Mr. Ected Mar 26 #41
world wide wally Mar 26 #42
The Magistrate Mar 26 #44
NurseJackie Mar 26 #43
The Magistrate Mar 29 #96
lefthandedskyhook Mar 26 #46
The Magistrate Mar 26 #53
brush Mar 26 #80
DinahMoeHum Mar 26 #48
Post removed Mar 26 #52
The Magistrate Mar 26 #54
seta1950 Mar 26 #50
George II Mar 26 #56
Politicub Mar 26 #57
The Magistrate Mar 30 #98
McCamy Taylor Mar 26 #58
Post removed Mar 26 #60
The Magistrate Mar 26 #63
McCamy Taylor Mar 26 #65
The Magistrate Mar 26 #72
The Magistrate Mar 27 #87
quickesst Mar 26 #61
McCamy Taylor Mar 26 #62
The Magistrate Mar 26 #67
McCamy Taylor Mar 26 #64
The Magistrate Mar 26 #69
Tucker08087 Mar 26 #66
The Magistrate Mar 26 #71
Tucker08087 Mar 26 #74
DENVERPOPS Mar 26 #70
NanceGreggs Mar 26 #76
The Magistrate Mar 26 #77
NanceGreggs Mar 26 #78
NurseJackie Mar 27 #88
Scurrilous Mar 27 #89
betsuni Mar 28 #94
NurseJackie Mar 29 #95
SheltieLover Mar 31 #101
The Magistrate Apr 1 #104
Gothmog Apr 1 #105
The Magistrate Apr 9 #107
Gothmog Apr 9 #106
The Magistrate Apr 9 #108

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:08 AM

1. Hello Magistrate!! could not agree more

 

Unfortunately Sen Sanders and his campaign have decided to adopt the Trumpian ( Putin) form of politicking..

It is as bad as we thought it would be when the primary season started. Sometimes being right is not something a person wants. I was hoping my fears were misplaced.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:12 AM

2. +1,000,000

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:13 AM

3. Magistrate...what took you so long to come back...this is a masterful, wonderful post. I agree

 

with every word. But even if I didn't, I would still consider it persuasive and comprehensive in the coverage of our situation and why we find ourselves in this difficult position. Thank you sir... K&R

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:14 AM

4. Astute Reasoning, Sir!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:16 AM

5. "well-meaning supporters"

 

I don't get it.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to William769 (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:25 AM

10. I Am Sure Many People Who Support Sanders Mean Well, Sir

 

They want to get Trump out of office, and break Republican power in the Senate, and in the state legislatures, so that progressive and liberal measure can be enacted into law. They are mistaken to believe 'Bernie' is a good vehicle to this end, but they do honestly believe it. These are different from the radical dead-enders, the nihilists and wreckers and 'revolutionaries', who are unreachable, and were not really part of the 'popular front' the Democratic Party ought to be taken as. But the much larger number of well-meaning people caught up in the 'Bernie' cult can be reached, and persuaded towards proper action. The first step towards that is the realization the goals 'Bernie' pursues are not really the goals they aim for. And the fact is, 'Bernie' wants something very different from the bulk of his supporters.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:36 AM

15. I still don't get it.

 

They stand for Sanders. There no well meaning to it. They want to destroy basically what America is Capitalism. I've lost to many family members and worked hard all my life for America, for Democracy. No, it's not perfect and I'll do everything in my power to stop this cabal.

I'll stop here before I really tell you how I feel about these people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to William769 (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:50 AM

20. Many Do Not Know What They Are Actually Supporting, Sir

 

Last edited Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

I have heard people describe Sanders as a 'traditional Democrat', as a 'New Deal' Democrat, as an example of the sort of Democrats we used to have, like Roosevelt and Johnson. Many are ignorant enough of the history to believe this. It is ludicrously false to fact. 'Bernie' bears not the slightest resemblance to any form of 'traditional Democrat'. People like 'Bernie' opposed the New Deal vociferously, and on the same ground as 'Bernie' opposes things today --- the New Deal in their view didn't go nearly far enough, and that Roosevelt was a weak sister who could have got far more, if only he had cared to. There probably aren't more than dozen people on this forum who, if alive and young at the time, would have regarded Lydon Johnson with anything but contempt, as first an collaborator with Eisenhower and then as the unworthy heir of the martyred John F. Kennedy. Who won election largely on a completely trumped up claim the Soviets had a tremendous superiority over us in nuclear missiles. But not so many people know these things, and are honestly taken in by the claims 'Bernie' is a real Democrat, the kind we used to have.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:55 AM

22. I've enjoyed out chat and I will leave you with this hoping the other side will see it

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/16/democrats-socialism-fdr-roosevelt-227622

Have a great day!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:13 PM

45. Maybe that is why

 

That person never impressed me. Because I am one of the few left to remember each one of those Leaders you mentioned. I may have been a child but remember quite vividly sitting in front of the big Crosley radio listening to those Fireside chats!
I want a Democrat. Nothing else will do!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:16 PM

47. You Are Certainly My Senior, Ma'am

 

At some point, I intend to put up a piece by Mr. Norman Thomas, to illustrate what our 'lefter than thou' contingent would most likely have been engaged in, were they young and breathing during the New Deal....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #47)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:20 PM

51. I am

 

Most people’s Senior but with a memory that has not diminished. My best friend is 2 years older than I am. We agree!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:07 PM

73. Lucky you! I wish I had those fireside chats memories.

 

President Roosevelt was already dead when I was born in August 1945. I do vividly remember listening to the Queen's coronation on the radio and the news dispatches from Korea (my older brother was in that war). I agree with you about wanting a Democrat...absolutely!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 03:43 PM

81. It's stunning how few people know that our greatest domestic POTUS

 

Was LBJ. Better than FDR, even. So much of the world that we "miss" that the repukes have destroyed since Raygun the Traitor were actually LBJ accomplishments, the entirety of which would take too long to list here. People just don't know how much he did for the nation. But here's the short list:

Medicare
Medicaid
Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act
Immigration Reform Act opening immigration to all countries, no quotas
Fair Housing Act
PBS
Creation of the National Endowment for the Arts and Humanities
Head Start
Higher Education Act Grants
School lunch program
Food Stamp Act
Clean air and water acts
Wildlife protections
High Speed Transit
Highway Beauty (limiting billboard, cleaning up roadsides)
Federal Employees Health Benefit
Flammable Fabrics Act
Child Safety Act
Truth in packaging laws
Truth in lending laws
Creation of numerous consumer protection agencies, like the National Transportation Safety Board, Product Safety Commission

And more: http://www.lbjlibrary.org/lyndon-baines-johnson/lbj-biography/landmark

Yes, his foreign policy vis a vis Vietnam in particular was a disaster. But domestically? Nobody touches him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #81)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 04:16 PM

82. If You Want The Contemporary Liberal Point Of View On The Man, Ma'am

 

Hunt up a book from 1967 by Robert Sherrill called 'The Accidental President'.

No attempt to change your view of Mr. Johnson, mind, merely an illustration of what the common view of him in left liberal circles actually was at the time. I read it then and agreed with every word, and strongly suspect that a good many of our members here today, who call him a 'real' liberal Democrat, the kind we haven't got today, would at the time have held views more aligned with Mr. Sherrill than otherwise. I suspect Sanders' contemporary view of the man would have made Mr. Sherrill seem like a booster for old Lyndon Baines. I confess time has brought me to regard the man in far kinder light, but his name still evokes a residual revulsion for me. I do recognize he did good, and certainly in the matter of civil rights displayed real moral courage. That was not so clear at the time however.

If you do look for it, best use the author's name as well as the title. A book on Mr. Truman with a similar title was published more recently, and soaks up many pages of a google search for the title alone. It is a fun read, the man is an artiste with a verbal razor, and not really inaccurate in what he writes, either....
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Aquaria (Reply #81)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 10:03 PM

86. I'm an unreconstructed LBJ loyalist.

 

He was my father's senator in 1950 and had Congress pass a private bill (a procedure long discontinued by that body) that enabled my mother and me (an 18-month old baby) to leave Okinawa to join my father in this country (OK-- Texas). I was in junior high when much of Great Society legislation was passed, and in high school when I overheard fellow classmates, offspring of University of Michigan professors, snicker about Johnson's southern drawl. I even enlisted in the army during the height of the Vietnam war (idiot). Although I fully recognize Johnson's responsibility for the Vietnam debacle, I will forcefully point out that Johnson's key advisors on the war were all JFK holdovers. Johnson's passion was the "Great Society"-- not Vietnam-- and I will always believe that war killed him along with 50,000 Americans and god knows how many Vietnamese. (Eric F. Goldman, a Johnson advisor excoriated by his fellow Ivy Leaguers for working with "Uncle Cornpone," wrote The Tragedy of Lyndon Johnson" (1969), and explains my loathing of the "intellectual elites."

Tip O'Neil is credited with, "All politics is local." After our family was reunited, Johnson offered to help my father-- literally a Texas farm boy just out the Navy-- find a job in D.C. (My father declined.) Unlike too many politicians these days, Johnson never forgot his constituents-- many of whom were dirt poor. Like my family.

P.S. I'm not responsible for that goddam smiley face.

P.P.S. I read The Accidental President decades ago. I remember nothing of it except the author's snarkiness.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to geralmar (Reply #86)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 08:16 PM

90. Thank You For Sharing That, Sir

 

If someone had done that for me and mine, I'd be loyal to him through thick and thin till the last dog died.

While I agreed with that book when I read it, I did not offer it here as 'the truth' about Lyndon Johnson, but to illustrate what people on the liberal left portion of the political spectrum thought of the man at the time. I suspect many of the people here who look back and see President Johnson as a stalwart progressive liberal would have, had they been alive and politically active in his day, likely shared the views of Mr. Sherrill in many cases, judging by their attitudes towards current politicians.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #90)

Sat Mar 28, 2020, 03:43 AM

91. Thank you for your unexpected courtesy.

 

I was bracing for a lashing. High school, college, army, work, friends, veterans groups, I have never never heard anything but contempt for the man. Perhaps it's because I've spent most of my life in the north and among the "educated" middle class. (I doubt Johnson is particularly liked in the south, either-- you know, that "civil rights" thing.) The problem is I believe his passion really was domestic policy and that he believed he could quickly end Vietnam and get back to work at home. I believe he was cowed by educated "Eastern Establishment" liberals (the Kennedy mafia), and so trusted their wisdom on Vietnam. (The more moderate Kennedy advisors deserted LBJ immediately after the assassination.) Goldman's book stung at the time: LBJ's humiliation under the JFK people was real, and since my family was rooted in rural Texas rather than Cambridge, Mass., reading the book I felt humiliated along with LBJ. On my loyalty to the man, I know someone could ask, "Well, if Hitler did you a favor would you you feel loyal to Hitler, too?" My answer is simply, "Johnson wasn't Hitler."

Of course holding a press conference while sitting on the toilet isn't quite up to even MY forgiving cultural standards.


Edit: Isn't this thread supposed to be about Sanders?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to geralmar (Reply #91)

Sat Mar 28, 2020, 12:55 PM

92. Much Appreciated, Sir

 

I will leave a good deal unsaid in respect to your feelings, and speak only of what is to me now clearly admirable about President Johnson.

There can be no doubt whatever the man displayed extraordinary moral courage in pressing for and signing the Civil Rights Act. At the time he did not receive full credit for it, with many suggesting the Act was more in the nature of a tribute to the murdered President Kennedy than an achieved goal of President Johnson, and others decrying the Act as not going far enough, and pointing to some previous votes by Mr. Johnson in the Senate as proof his heart was not in it. These things I am convinced are wrong. Mr. Johnson made the Act law, and of his own desire and volition. He knew what he was doing, and his statement our Party had lost the South for a generation when he signed the Act is the true measure of the man, and his desire to do the right thing by his own best lights. I would suggest that his Great Society proposals, not all of which could be enacted, were in part intended to redeem that loss, by improving the lot of poor people, white and black and hispanic alike, to blunt the edge of racist appeals with prosperity, and bring more people to a stake that made voting seem worthwhile.

No call to worry about deviation the thread's point, Sir. It is a pleasant break, when it occurs. As these things become unwieldy, I have found myself discussing Heinlien's books, and the evolutionary speculations of Tielhard de Chardin, among other things, within them. I don't think our discussion is too far off the point in any case. I appreciate the opportunity to get some of my thoughts on the subject in order.

Be well, Sir, and stay safe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #92)


Response to geralmar (Reply #93)

Tue Mar 31, 2020, 03:11 PM

102. geralmar,

 

type an extra "space" after the punctuation and the "" hickey - that "smilie" won't be there!

PS: Loved the dialog between you and The Magistrate!
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to MyOwnPeace (Reply #102)


Response to William769 (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 31, 2020, 12:56 PM

99. Agree. Many BS Surrogates Have Been Anti Democratic Party

 

They are drawn to his attacks on the Democratic party. There a reason. Why Republicans encouraged GOP voters in South Carolina to support Bernie.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to TomCADem (Reply #99)

Tue Mar 31, 2020, 02:27 PM

100. There Is Little Question, Sir

 

Like 'Bernie' and Jill 2016, and like Nader before them, these people can be fairly described as the left auxiliaries of the Republican party. They do this both by depressing Democratic turn-out, and by giving a 'bipartisan' veneer to Republican attacks they echo, giving the media, in its idiotic pursuit of a ridiculous concept of 'balance', a chance to say Republican charges are not right wing attacks, but come from somewhere in 'the middle'....


"A journalist's job, when one person says it's raining and another says it's not, isn't to report that opinions differ, but to step outside and see if he gets wet."
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:18 AM

6. Not when the raison d'etre is to attack and denounce the party he purportedly wishes to represent

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:21 AM

7. Great post, we have missed you!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:22 AM

8. His supporters want the same thing he does.

 

They don't admit it here but they freely say it's what they want on another site where they post.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to showblue22 (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:30 AM

11. Well,

 

Last edited Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

If I had to guess right now, I’d say 85% will vote Democratic while the other 15% dead-enders will vote third party, stay home, or vote Trump. My personal, admittedly anecdotal, experience is that basically all my friends and my own mother are Sanders supporters (I’m a millennial) who have no problem with Biden.

I think “Bernie Bros” are a loud, toxic, minority.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Turin_C3PO (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:37 AM

16. I think that might be a bit optimistic.

 

In early February, nearly half of Sanders supporters said they either wouldn't support the nominee at all or that their support would depend on the nominee. Things could have changed, of course, but the tone of the Sanders camp certainly hasn't, and his supporters are often a reflection of that camp.

https://www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-bernie-sanders-supporters-wont-support-another-nominee-democratic-unity-msnbc-poll-1485241
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:39 AM

17. Wasn't there an exit poll out of

 

Michigan that said 81% will vote Biden? Maybe I’m remembering it wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to showblue22 (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:34 AM

13. The Social Media Fanatics, Ma'am

 

Are a small portion of the whole. They are noisy, repellent, sometimes even evil people, but they are not too numerous. The is analogy here is with suppressing guerrilla activity. If, as the saying goes, the people are the pond the guerrilla swims in, the classic method is to drain the pond, exposing the fish, and concentrating them into smaller and smaller and denser pockets. One of the tricks is finding the level of appeal that will strip mass support from the activists. An illustration would be the effect of Nixon's announcement no draftees would in future be sent to Viet Nam. Though the war continued on for some time, the turn out for antiwar demonstrations dropped by an order of magnitude at least --- where crowds of twenty thousand could be seen previously, it became difficult to muster much more than fifteen hundreds.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:22 AM

9. I was happy to hear Mr. Biden say he was not interested in debating bs. Sends a strong message

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:31 AM

12. I agree, sir.

 

He is just in it for his own ego at this point. He knows he’s not going to get the nomination. He’s just attempting to damage Biden in the General this November.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:35 AM

14. Agree completely. Except I strongly suspect his rage, reported

 

by many who'd been around him while he delayed endorsing for a month while nothing happened to take out the nominee, suggests he may have come to genuinely believe he might somehow still succeed. Almost certainly long before that the enthusiastic response to his grandiose promises, assisted by the concerted efforts of our own RW forces, their MSM agents, far-left media, and Russia, helped him come to believe it could happen.

Of course, we know now he is a True Believer in himself, so he always believed it should. And given his proven, self-revealed delusions about what it takes to achieve huge political goals in the real world, I see no reason to assume he didn't enter this race believing that this time the giant wave of support would develop.

Those hopes and expectations developed very belatedly on top of what you describe, of course, which has been lifelong Sanders. After all, the goal of his long-ago hopeless spoiler candidacy for governor of VT was not to become governor but as a platform to to oppose, malign and splinter away support from the Democratic Party, and he had his success when the Democratic incumbent lost the governorship to the Republican Party.

At least it won't be deja vu all over again, and yet again, now that more people see him.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:55 AM

24. Securing The Nomination, Ma'am

 

Would be the ultimate overthrow of the 'Democratic Establishment'. The scalp, so to speak, that proves the kill. The kill is the object of the effort.

I do agree he must actually have thought four years ago, much to his own surprise, he actually did have a chance, and cannot quite let go of that marvelous feeling....






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:43 PM

32. Yup. Validation of his belief that he truly represents the people

 

against all evidence from decades of rejection.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:25 PM

75. True, Ma'am --- A Dedicated Vanguardist

 

'Bernie' knows votes don't show what people support. 'Bernie' knows what the people want better than the people do themselves.






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 03:30 PM

79. Striking patterns of thinking and behavior. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:44 AM

18. sanders wants to remake the Democratic Party into his own image

 

As a long time Democrat, I reject sanders' view of the Democratic Party. I have worked long and hard to turn Texas blue and sanders' vision of a new Democratic Party would kill such efforts and kill down ballot candidates in Texas
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:44 AM

19. "...weaken if not wreck the 'Democratic Establishment'." This appears to be the case. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:50 AM

21. Sanders was never in it to win the nomination

 

It is becoming increasingly apparent that he is helping Trump by sowing the seeds of dissent and divisiveness. If he is doing it on his own, for financial gain or under someone's orders may never be known.

We have all seen this movie before. This time, we can change the ending.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:55 AM

23. I've been quietly tolerating BS...

 

...but, I'm tired. This past week has taken all of my patience and understanding to the limit. I'm done and I'm getting pissed off. We don't have time for his bullshit, anymore.

He claims he's concerned about the American people, but continues to attempt to divide Democrats. If there is a path to victory for Sanders, it's razor thin and becoming thinner by the day with his recent actions. We are fighting for our lives and we need unity. Sanders needs to stop and either disappear into irrelevance in Vermont, or step back and back our nominee...Joe Biden.

Disclosure: Biden was not my first, second or third choice...but, he is my final choice and I back him and his fight to defeat Trump 100%.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to ZenDem (Reply #23)

Sun Mar 29, 2020, 04:19 PM

97. It Has Done That To A Number Of Us, Sir

 

Mr. Biden was not my first choice either, Sir, but I back him to the hilt, whether against Trump or 'Bernie'.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:57 AM

25. Bernie's ability to weaken the Democratic "establishment" diminishes with every day he stays in the

 

race.

It has been clear to many of us that for Bernie, the Democratic Party is not an affiliation but a vehicle to advance his agenda. However, I don't agree that his primary goal is to weaken or destroy the Democratic Party establishment. His initial goal was to take the party over and become the party establishment himself. He managed to gain a foothold in the party in '16, and he was hoping he could leverage it for further gains in '20. His increased attacks on the "establishment" was to weaken the party leadership so he could take it over more easily. To wreak the "establishment"was the means to achieving his goals, not the goal itself. Now that he failed beyond his worst expectations in it, he has no Plan B. He just doesn't know what to do next. He keeps moving in the same direction only because the inertia of his past movements takes him there, but I sense no will or purpose in his actions.

Bernie is losing momentum and credibility with each day of his futile defiance. The longer he maintains this trajectory, the more people realize its futility. Bernie is running out of relevance, and, the good news is, his power, will or ability, to wreak anything.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beastie boy (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:01 PM

27. True, Sir

 

But the deleterious effect he may prove to have come November increases in proportion to the length by which he extends his effort, and the lengths he and his coterie go to press it. Some people who might be brought to reason if the thing ends in April may not be reachable by July....





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:59 PM

38. This is a 50/50 proposition.

 

You may be right about Bernie's effect on the November election. But likewise, the people who are Bernie or busters today (especially the more reasonable ones among them) may become reluctant, or, more accurately, tacit in their uncompromising support for Bernie despite their faces. Their disaffection with Bernie can prove to be more persuasive than their far less likely sudden affinity for Biden.The more credibility Bernie loses with time, the more the likelihood of Bernie or Busters opening their eyes to the reality of the situation, especially in light of Trump running for the second term. I know, I am counting on people to be reasonable where their interests are at stake, which is never a good idea, but I am merely talking about likelihoods and probabilities. A clouded mind becomes less so when the all-powerful wizard behind the curtain reveals himself to be an ordinary con man from Omaha, Nebraska (or Burlington, Vermont).
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to beastie boy (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:03 PM

40. You Make A Good Point, Sir

 

Thank you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #40)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:00 PM

68. Pleasure chating with you

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 11:58 AM

26. It's the "Democratic Party". You might fix the OP

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Hokie (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:04 PM

29. Thank You, Sir

 

Sometimes it is hard to proof your own work, because you know what you mean to say. I am a two-finger typist, and sometimes find I have omitted whole words, let alone a few letters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:02 PM

28. what happens if Biden contracts covid-19 before election

 

and ends up in critical condition? Is Bernie a backup for the nomination?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:05 PM

30. Of Course Not Sir

 

Though some of the worst of his coterie actual express the hope that tragic chance would happen....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:26 PM

31. I believe this was always the case

 

And it explains so much.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:44 PM

33. Calling all Bernie supporters! Calling all Bernie supporters!

 

Come and explain how this isn’t true and that we should bask in the glow of the Bern.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:45 PM

34. So true. Nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:48 PM

35. I got alerted on and had posts removed

 

many times for saying something bad about "a democratic leader." I don't feel vindicated that people have finally seen the light, I am pissed off that it took so long. I said that he is "trump-lite," and he sure as shit is - he lies, he is negative, and he is a YUGE fucking egotist and self-server. I despise that man for the harm he continues to rain down on our party. Not HIS party, our party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:59 PM

37. That Is A Shame, Ma'am

 

I agree people should have seen through this radical mountebank sooner.

"Like a putrid mackerel by moonlight, he doth both stink and shine."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:17 PM

49. Same here!

 

I have tried to avoid these posts but it is hard.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lillypaddle (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:33 PM

55. Same here

 

My post that said Bernie had overstayed his welcome was deleted because I had said something negative about a Democratic candidate
I appealed but have not gotten a response unless I did not know where to look for it
I think Warren would have done much better without Bernie in the race
I remember in one debate she turned to him and said something to the effect that some of their positions were similar but she’d done the work to make changes
She worked to get changes in McConnell'sstimulus bill while Bernie held his electronic record rally with music in Vermont
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Frances (Reply #55)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:43 PM

59. Professor Warren, Ma'am, Was My Prefered Candidate As Well

 

She has demonstrated she can get things accomplished, and possesses the rare ability to make complex matters comprehensible to persons with little or no background knowledge of a subject.

Matters standing as they do now, I fly Mr.Biden's flag here, and support him unreservedly. A patriot who loves the people and country has no other choice at present.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 12:56 PM

36. I'm a bit more cynical than you.

 

I think his primary motivation is in bringing as many of those $27 checks as possible when he finally takes his crusty old ass back to Vermont.

RESIST
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MarianJack (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:01 PM

39. I Do Not Discount That Motivation, Ma'am

 

Grifting like a common Palin is certainly part of his persistence. Not a good opening wedge, though, I suspect, towards people who have been conned out of their money by a fraud....




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #39)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 04:57 PM

83. Hello from Winthrop, Maine and...

 

...I'm either a guy or the downright UGLIEST woman on the face of the Earth.

RESIST
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MarianJack (Reply #83)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 05:27 PM

84. I Seem To Be Losing My Touch, Sir

 

Probably I should take a nap.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #84)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 08:30 PM

85. I'm going to be 65 in June, so...

 

...I LOVE naps!

RESIST
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:08 PM

41. Unless he drops the -I and adds a -D, he's not a Democrat to me

 

In fact, he's anathema to the Democratic Party, dividing our vote and weakening our potential.

Bernie, your ideas deserve to be vetted out and considered by our party, but not with you as the standard bearer. Go home to Vermont and represent your constituents with vim and vigor.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:08 PM

42. I'm sorry to say this, but the ONLY thing Bernie can accomplish at this point

 

is to help Trump by tarnishing Biden.
He must know he is not going to win the nomination, a blind school kid could see that.
So bottom line: If you still support Bernie at this point, you are in fact working for Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #42)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:11 PM

44. Quite True, Sir

 

People need to face up to that, and the sooner they do, the better all around. While late is better than never, it is never better to be late....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:09 PM

43. I completely agree. There will be no "revolution".

 

'Bernie' Is Not Seeking Our Party's Nomination For President
I completely agree. There will be no "revolution".



Joe/Kamala or Biden/Harris 2020!!
Jump on the Biden Bandwagon & abandon the revolution!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #43)

Sun Mar 29, 2020, 08:16 AM

96. No, Ma'am, There Will Not Be

 

Revolutions are things that really cannot be forced. If conditions are right, they will practically occur by themselves, though some groups, or even individuals, may believe they wrought them by their own efforts. But in fact, they are just riding a wave....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:15 PM

46. This post really ticks me off

 

I have long supported Bernie and will support the eventual nominee fully if I live to see that day. Bernie is not the enemy. The republicans are the enemy. The virus is the enemy and our so called president made it much much worse.

This circular firing squad on this forum is disgusting
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to lefthandedskyhook (Reply #46)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:27 PM

53. 'Bernie' Conducts Himself As An Enemy, Sir

 

It is not possible to deny he takes the 'Democratic Establishment' as his enemy, and believes that its chief goal is to thwart the advance of liberal and progressive causes. The man has said it often enough it is only courteous to believe him. Coming drunk with petty triumph out the Nevada caucus he announced the 'Democratic Establishment' couldn't stop him, and he was gunning for them. This is not a circular firing squad, this is two lines of musketeers squared off across an open field. If 'Bernie' does not drop his crusade against the 'Democratic Establishment' he is in effect the left auxiliary of the Republican Party, as any good Leninist would calmly observe. If he will not remove himself as a threat to a unified effort against Trump, his followers must be brought to see what he actually is, and so pull his teeth and render him harmless through his lack of dedicated audience.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to lefthandedskyhook (Reply #46)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 03:40 PM

80. Isn't he always talking about fighting the Democratic Party Establishment?

 

To me that sounds like the Party is his enemy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:17 PM

48. The only revolution most Democrats want right now. . .

 

is to get rid of Trump (and the GOP)

And the "Berners" should have learned from 2018, when voters in the battleground districts chose relatively moderate candidates over the "Justice Democrats/Our Revolution" types in the primaries and then went on to pulverize the GOP incumbents and win back the House.

Out of over 200 endorsements by those two groups in the Congressional primaries
in 2018 and 2020, how many of their candidates won those primaries? Two? Three?
Yeah, there was AOC in New York's 14th CD in 2018 and Marie Newman in Chicago who defeated Dan Lipinski in the primary this year - but they were in predominantly Democratic districts to begin with, and they picked off low-hanging fruit.




#newrostrong
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #48)


Response to DinahMoeHum (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:32 PM

54. Exactly, Ma'am

 

Our Party took Congress by an accretion of middle of the road types disgusted with Trump, and the energy of Democrats who hate the man like poison. 'Bernie' types engaged in jihad against the 'Democratic Establishment' had nothing to do with it, save to the point that they may have blinked, swallowed, and gone out to cast a vote for the Democrat on the ballot in their district and state.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:18 PM

50. Very well said

 

This time around, unlike 2016 bernie supporters know it will be the end of all of us , if trump is back , so they should think about that more than anything, look how much damage is been done in 3 years, is bernie or his supporters willing to cede this country into total chaos?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:38 PM

56. Excellent post - you hit the nail on the head, thanks for the insight!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:38 PM

57. I have gone from finding Bernie interesting to being terrified by him

 

Your OP does a better job than I could ever do of explaining why.

Realizing that the party in which he is running is a thing to be destroyed in unconscionable.

People will soon be drowning from fluid in their lungs waiting in the hospital for a ventilator. The lack of equipment is problem that directly stems from inaction during the lead time we had. The assembly line at Ford could have been ordered to start creating ventilators. The president had that power.

And Bernie would rather attack the party that is the only chance to vote Trump out of office. It’s sick. Something worse than the pandemic may come in the next four years and I would rather a democrat be in charge than a republican. I don’t understand how someone can feel differently.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Politicub (Reply #57)

Mon Mar 30, 2020, 12:52 PM

98. Thank You, Sir

 

"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:43 PM

58. Democratic Party is the party of unions.

 

As a union member, I see his attacks on our party as an attack on unions.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)


Response to Post removed (Reply #60)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:47 PM

63. Thank You For The Laugh, Sir

 

We can all use a good chuckle in these trying times.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Post removed (Reply #60)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:57 PM

65. What a fine first post!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #65)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:04 PM

72. I Hope No One Alerts On It, Ma'am

 

I like to leave these things in place pour encourager les autres....
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #65)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 12:07 PM

87. Sorry To See It Gone, Ma'am

 

Still....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:44 PM

61. here's the thing about Bernie....

 

If he were to succeed in damaging or wrecking the Democratic Party, once the primary is over and Biden is the nominee, Bernie will walk away shaking the last broken pieces from his foot, turning around and saying....

WHO ME???
I'm an Independent!
For now.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:47 PM

62. You make a good point here.

 

It is probably true that Sanders sees destroying the 'Democratic Establishment' as an essential precondition to defeating Trump et al, and so by his own lights he means it when he says he will do all he can to defeat Trump. But that belief is so self-serving and delusional it deserves not just scorn but contempt.


If Trump was an "establishment" candidate then yeah, you would need to buck the establishment. However, Trump is a self styled outlaw candidate who models himself on Robin Hood. That means we need a Democrats who embraces good old fashioned American values like the Constitution and paying taxes and following the law and taking care of one another and making our country strong."

We definitely do not need a battle between two self styled "outlaws" one on the left and one on the right--because in this country the number of right wing self styled "outlaws" is higher than the number of "outlaws" on the left.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #62)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:59 PM

67. A Good Point, Ma'am

 

I would say that in my view Trump represents a sort of 'alternative establishment, both within the Republican party and the plutocratic class in general. The Republican party was controlled by persons who whipped up yahoos to a froth, but with no other purpose than to have mass support for legislators and a President who would strip regulations and reduce taxes. There was no intent of actually doing much of anything the yahoos wanted done passionately. They have lost control, they have 'called up that which they cannot put down', and the result is Trump, who embodies what has long been growing within the Republican party, a sort of fresh 'Establishment' of genuine, dyed in the wool and elected to office yahoos, who have an honest claim to take charge of the Republican party, since they are the bulk of its minor officials, and appeal strongly to its dedicated bloc of voters. Within the plutocratic classes, Trump represents a faction defiantly without culture or manners or the slightest sense of noblesse oblige --- things have traditionally served as at least some check on the behavior of those elevated so high government itself generally cannot touch them.



"The poor object to being misgoverned. The rich object to being governed at all."






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:56 PM

64. Oh, and wanna plug Eric Hobsbawn's "Bandits"

 

which you can get for less than $4 used at Amazon. Essential reading for those who want to take down the self styled Godfather/Robin Hood Trump.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #64)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:01 PM

69. Spread The Word, Ma'am

 

An excellent fellow, Mr. Hobsbawn.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 01:58 PM

66. Four years can feel like everything.

 

Those 4 high school years, where I was one of the lucky ones but wondered how I’d survive. My four first years at University, when everyday I wondered at the opportunity to live in that setting and learn fascinating things each day. The first four years of my child’s life—terrifying and joyful at the same time, yet over in the blink of an eye. His first four years of school. Same terror and joy, and almost gone as fast. His first three years oh high school, when I wish time would slow because I know I’m losing him. But now, “losing him” has another meaning, as a student is sick and most likely infected all other students and the rest of the town.
Four years. Four years are over in a flash. Unless you’re dying or dead. The man is killing us.
I don’t care how it’s done or who does it. Sorry, but get with the program. Yes, there are things we want done. In four years. Right now, get this psycho out, because those four years are hardly guaranteed. In fact, I’ll bet a number of us don’t live to vote. Four years AFTER that? I’m not sure if the USA will be standing. Hard to believe? I couldn’t see my son standing on day one, either. By year 4 he was running, reading and speaking. He was smart, stubborn, unafraid of challenges. He was experimenting and making, yet correcting, mistakes. I hope we can say that about our nation in 4 years. We can. If people get with the program. It might not be perfect. It might get messy. Ask any parent. But it gets done and it succeeds. Our lives are at risk. F Democracy at this point. F our platform. We are dying. We need to fix it. Those 4 years will be over in the blink of an eye. Or they will live on in perpetuity with horrible changes that can never be undone. That’s the reality. Time to deal with it. Unify!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Tucker08087 (Reply #66)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:02 PM

71. Hear Hear, Sir

 

You state the stakes most vividly.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:11 PM

74. It's Ma'am, but perfectly acceptable.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 02:01 PM

70. Bravo Magistrate

 

And can you get your mind around the fact that we have three more months of this shit, before the nomination???????

The Dems are in a real pickle here with this........BS isn't even a democrat, but if they throw him out of the party, he and his cult disciples will be sour grapes and just not vote, even if it means giving the election to Trump.

My wife has been Bernie lover for years and years. She even has a Bernie sticker on her car from the 2016 election.
A week ago, she came into our den, and after listening to the most recent Bernie campaign rhetoric, said to me:
"That' it, I'm voting for Biden.....Bernie is beginning to sound as egomaniacal as Trump"......

Trump has been campaigning every day since his inauguration, and the leadership DNC can't even give us a candidate until July.

WTF

&

WASF
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 03:16 PM

76. ...

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #76)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 03:24 PM

77. Thank You, Ma'am

 

I was happy to see you still keep up your excellent commentaries.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #77)

Thu Mar 26, 2020, 03:28 PM

78. You are most welcome, sir.

 

And I am happy to see you return with yours. As you've seen by now, you were sorely missed by so many here.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 04:18 PM

88. Thank you!

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2020, 06:28 PM

89. Yep.

 

Always been the plan. First and foremost. Wreck and replace with the purity du jour.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Sat Mar 28, 2020, 04:35 PM

94. K&R

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Sun Mar 29, 2020, 07:41 AM

95. Kick for visibility...

 

... and to compliment and thank you for posting this.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Tue Mar 31, 2020, 02:59 PM

101. So obvious

 

Well stated!

K&R
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to SheltieLover (Reply #101)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 04:35 PM

104. Thank You, Ma'am

 

"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Wed Apr 1, 2020, 06:12 PM

105. The benefit of the Democrats denouncing Sanders's selfishness

 

I am tired of sanders and his supporters demanding that we bend a knee and anoint sanders as the nominee. It may be better to simply give up on the 15% who will not vote for any real Democrat and move on



If you are in the search for silver linings, one benefit of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) pointlessly continuing his losing campaign is the freedom for Democrats to denounce him and his anti-party escapades. After years of humoring him, the vast majority of Democrats, from super-progressives to moderates, can now say out loud what they’ve said quietly: It has always been about Bernie. It’s not a movement, but rather a vanity project. ....

The problem, according to many Democrats, remains that 15 percent of Sanders supporters say in polling that they would vote for President Trump over Biden. This nugget actually makes the opposite argument: There is nothing that would satisfy some faction of the Sanders coalition that would rather blow up our democracy and reelect Trump. With people so irrational, the best response is to ignore them. They, like the MAGA-hat crowd, are unreachable and cannot be bargained with (e.g., more New Green Deal talk!). So do not try. No more outreach to Sanders, no more promised policy modifications, no more speaking slot at the convention. Enough

This would have some salutary effects.

First, it would make perfectly clear that Biden is not Sanders and not a crazy left-winger, as Trump would like to paint him in the campaign. Biden makes a sharp distinction between the “democratic socialist” crowd and his own brand of center-left politics. Since he cannot get the 15 percent of “Bernie or Bust” Democrats (or independents), he might as well make a strong play for moderate independents and disaffected Republicans. Cutting Sanders off effectively allows Biden to pitch to gettable swing voters, not waste time on unattainable Bernie Bros.

Second, freezing out Sanders will make governance in a Biden administration much easier and more cohesive. There will be no debt to be paid to Sanders, no advisers taken on to satisfy Sanders, and no weird and distracting policy initiatives to lead the new administration astray. This would be a center-left administration confident of its own governing agenda — and personally cohesive.

Third, it would free up constructive, smart progressive leaders such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) to lead that wing of the party. She has already begun that process, contributing bankruptcy and student loan forgiveness plans to the Biden campaign. With a practical, crafty progressive in the Senate (hopefully in the majority and able to lead on legislation), Biden would be able to broaden his appeal and cultivate allies in the Warren wing of the party.

In other words, shoving Sanders offstage opens up room for party builders and party reformers, putting aside unattainable proposals (e.g., Medicare-for-all) in favor of a smarter, more broadly acceptable agenda. (Biden would not need to fend off a Warren primary challenge, as Barack Obama did with Sanders in 2012.)

The party is never going to make the 15% to 25% of sanders supporters happy. 25% of sanders supporters either voted for trump, voted for a third party candidate like Stein or stayed home


I am tired of trying to appease sanders supporters who are not going to be happy and there are real benefits in moving on and ignoring these voters.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #105)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 05:44 AM

107. It Is Not Just Sanders For Whom This Is A Vanity Project, Sir

 

Sanders in his colossal egotism conflates support for certain policy goals with desire for him to be the leader of a movement to achieve those goals.

This is nonesense.

Even leaving aside the fact that most of those goals are general among Democratic voters and enjoy broad support among Democratic office-holders and Party officials, virtually no one, not even among Sanders' supporters, thinks he can actually achieve them should he come to hold the highest office in the land.

Expressions support for Sanders are made as a marker of political orientation. Expresing support for Sanders says 'I'm not a moderate, I'm well to the left of most people', and as with most such things, serves to identify a 'cool' group separate from the general run of 'squares'. People doing this do not even particularly want to prevail, in the sense of being in the majority. It is axiomatic that a majority can never be 'cool', the feeling of being 'hip' and part of an 'in-crowd' depends on being outnumbered by the host of the unwashed and unenlightened. The point is not to achieve any political goal, to secure any discrete reform, it is simply to be sure one is perceived as a particular, and special, kind of person.

People who have an actual interest in achieving the goals widespread Democrats, the goals of all left and progressive and liberal persons in general, recognize readily Sanders is far too flawed as a politician, and as a personality, to make any progress towards their goals. They know Sanders has not achieved any measurable advance towards them in his long Congressional career. They know Sanders' claim to hold patents and copyrights on these goals is nonesense, because they know their own desires pre-date Sanders, and exist in their hearts and minds without the slightest reference to him or influence by him.






"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 12:43 AM

106. Bernie Sanders is out. And the insincere praise begins.

 




Democrats, aided by the mainstream media, are now putting out two rather disingenuous storylines. First, “No one ever changed the party as much as Sanders.” Second, “Now begins the struggle to win over the Bernie Bros.” It is understandable that some Democrats — eager to avoid a schism similar to that which occurred in 2016 — are falling over themselves to assuage Sanders’s ego, but let’s not get carried away.

The “Bernie changed the party” line suggests that the party did not overwhelmingly choose a center-left successor to President Barack Obama. But it did! And it has rallied around someone who rejected Medicare-for-all, a wealth tax, left-wing isolationism and the entire “capitalism is evil” stance. Sanders got beaten badly week after week, never changing his message. That message simply did not register with more than about 30 percent of the party. Twitter does not represent the party. The party did not shift far left, as many in the media predicted (egged on by the loudest voices on the left). If anything, Biden’s wins show that the heart of the party rests with moderate African Americans — to whom all Americans are indebted for lifting a viable, electable nominee to oust President Trump. Sanders’s “movement” is far smaller than he would have liked us to believe.

As for winning over his followers, consider a recent poll showing that about 15 percent of Sanders’s supporters intend to vote for Trump if Biden is the nominee. It is hard to fathom the mindset of someone who would prefer an unfit narcissist who opposes virtually every principle and value Democrats hold dear to Obama’s vice president. It is of a piece with those who preferred Jill Stein in 2016. There is no reaching such people. Soliciting them is a waste of time.

The rest of the Sanders coalition should not need much courting. They’ve already signaled they will line up behind Biden and have expressed their determination to oust Trump. Other than not gratuitously attacking them, no great effort should be required to keep them in the fold. (Ironically, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) has been far more successful in advancing progressive policy ideas with Biden, including her plans on student debt forgiveness and bankruptcy.)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #106)

Thu Apr 9, 2020, 06:41 AM

108. A Small Note In Explanaition Of That Mindset, Sir

 

Which apparently, despite Sanders' 'concession', we have still to deal with....

The 'further left' traditionally take as their chief immediate enemy parties and political figures of the center left, rather than parties and figures of the right. This is because a strong center-left party balks any possibility of revolution. It will have the allegiance of most working people, because it will bring them real benefits in their lives, and by doing so, will shut off influence of the 'further left' by making it clear measures well short of the desperate expedients the 'further left' prescribes for improving the lot of working people are not necessary.

Because center-left parties do uphold the present order of society, the 'further left' sees them as obstacles to its desires quite as much as any reactionary party on the right. Thus you have the 'not a dime's worth of difference' line that views our two major parties as interchangeable. Since the 'further left' cannot comprehend how working people could possibly form an honest attachment to rightist parties, their view comes to be that center-left parties are their chief obstacle to securing mass support from working people, and they imagine that if center-left parties are broken, they will inherit the mass support of working people, and thus become predominant. Then it will be the time to deal with the reactionary right, but until it is the 'further left' which has undisputed leadership of working people, the reactionary right cannot be dealt with properly.

Properly, here, indicating a policy guided by the slogan quite popular in the radical salad days of the sixties and seventies: 'What's the solution? Revolution!' Few nowadays on the 'further left' dream of an actual, barricades and snipers and car-bombs sort of armed revolution, but they do envision a complete overthrow of existing economic and social arrangements. One of the things they fail to understand about working people, and people on the lower rungs of the economic scale generally, is that people who have not much but do have a little are extremely reluctant to put the little they have at risk, and they know that in turmoil and tumult that little will be at risk. There are strains of the 'further left' which do have some understanding of this, and their view is that working people must be made to lose that little they have now, and lose it to the unmitigated predation of the reactionary right. Only then, when they have nothing to lose, will working people be ready for revolution under the banner of the 'further left'. This provides such people still another reason to oppose and demolish center left parties, as these do mitigate the suffering the right would impose on working people, and so are the chief force in balking revolution. These elements view an initial triumph of the reactionary right as an essential step in their own program to achieve revolution, and so are actually quite pleased by the reactionary right achieving political success at the expense of center-left parties.





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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