Enough, Bernie! That Is Quite Enough!

[MineralMan]

We are in a major crisis in this country - one we may well have difficulty overcoming. We also have an election coming up in November. You will not be on the ballot in that election. That hope is finished for you.

So, what to do now?

1. Keep on pretending that you have any chance at the Democratic Nomination?

2. Withdraw at once, strongly endorse Joe Biden, and begin convincing your supporters to help him win in November.

Those, I believe, are your only two viable choices, and the time is short for you to decide.

If you choose the first option, your influence in the Senate is going to be diminished and you will be shunned by the Democratic caucus. You will also earn the distrust of everyone, should Donald Trump somehow win a second term. You chose to participate in the Democratic Party's primary system. You claimed to be a Democrat for the purpose of running as a Democrat. So, show the validity of that claim or give it up forever.

If you choose the second option, which I strongly recommend you do, You should be able to lead your supporters to do the right thing in November, if you are any kind of leader at all. If you cannot do that, then you were not qualified to be President in the first place. So, lead by withdrawing and endorsing Joe Biden in the strongest possible terms.

The future starts now, and it's a cloudy one, at best. Be a mensch and do what you know is the right thing to do. Swallow your disappointment and help this country recover from the damage that has been caused. I suggest you act now and strongly.

[George II]

1. The Senate is in session today, there quite possibly could be a vote on the next Aid Package...

Why is he up in Vermont?

[MineralMan]

4. He is "ASSessing" apparently.

You make an excellent point, though. Why is he not acting as Vermont's Senator, the job he was elected to do?

[George II]

6. He's been assessing since Tuesday night. It's not like there are a dozen options out there....

....to ponder. He has two, and one of them includes doing the job for which he was elected and is drawing a $174,000 annual salary.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, I'm sorry he's feeling disappointed, to be sure.

However, a leader rises from disappointment and acts. If there are matters to be voted on in the Senate, then that's where he should be. If he does not participate in those weighty matters, then he is no leader at all. He is betraying all those who voted for him to hold that office.

Perhaps he is feeling sulky, up there in Vermont. Too bad. We are in crisis, and sulking is not an action that will help.

[PatSeg]

11. And

If he won't do the job he was elected to do, perhaps Vermont should consider electing a different senator. Right now, he is not acting like a leader.

[MineralMan]

12. Indeed.

[democrattotheend]

116. He might be up in Vermont for a different reason

He's 78 years old. Probably doesn't make sense for him to be in contact w/people more than necessary, especially since two members of the House and a couple Senate staffers have tested positive. I'm sure he'll be there to vote if the Dems need him, but otherwise it makes more sense for him to stay in Vermont.

As far as I know he hasn't attacked Biden at all since last week's primaries, and he's been raising money for charities rather than his campaign, so I don't know why everyone is so bent out of shape about him technically staying in the race.

[George II]

120. Oh isn't that nice, he hasn't attacked Biden since last week's primaries. He actually rarely....

...attacked Biden, he leaves that up to Turner, Gray, Sirota, and Orfalea. Sirota was back in the "Biden has dementia" thing again this week. You should check their Twitter accounts.

Sanders was back in Vermont late Wednesday afternoon/early evening, even while Senators were speaking on the floor.

Dianne Feinstein was in Washington late in the week - she's 86.
Dick Durban is in Washington (he spoke this afternoon on the floor of the Senate) - he's 75.
Chuck Grassley was in Washington late in the week - he's 86.

If one's age is an impediment to doing one's job, one should resign. He had no excuses for not being there.

And before you bash me for being "ageist", I was laid off years ago because of my age, filed a complaint with the state, won and was was restored to my job with full back pay of 18 months! I'm only a few years younger than him.

[TexasTowelie]

122. Bernie owns a home in D.C.

It seems like he could shelter in place at that home and be relatively close to the job instead of traveling over 500 miles to Vermont and exposing himself to the virus during transit.

[Demsrule86]

138. He is a Senator...Feinstein is older than he is ...and Nancy Pelosi around the same age...he

should do his job. And quit with the silly round table shtick...he is not going to be president and must get out of the race and go back to the Senate.

[Gothmog]

29. Good question

Link to tweet

[George II]

33. He missed more than 260 consecutive votes from late June 2019 through the second week of Jan 2020.

[MineralMan]

59. If Accurate, That is Quite Shocking!

Did the other Senators who were running in the primary have similar records?

[George II]

85. Actually the number is only 244, he did show up for one on June 28 2019. But for that one....

....he missed 253 straight votes from June 20 through January 5. Then he missed every vote from Feb 10 through Mar 12, another 38 in a row.

[emmaverybo]

61. Missed voting on the Coronavirus preparedness supplemental appropriations bill. Managed

however to hold a town hall on Coronavirus with musicians. This was after Biden addressed the nation about a plan he had formulated. Bernie has no experience whatsoever in any public health
issue.

[mcar]

105. Wait, what?

He's still in VT?

I thought he had a fcking crisis to deal with?

[George II]

110. He does. But he never said it was the COVID-19 crisis. His campaign in cratering, that's probably...

....what he meant.

[mcar]

119. This is just sad

It's over. If we didn't have this pandemic going on, he could maybe argue staying in longer. But now? No. It's time for all to coalesce around our presumptive nominee.

[LAS14]

2. Another choice is to continue taking advantage of the national stage to push...

... his agenda. I always liked his agenda better than him, so I'm happy to have his winning removed from the discussion, as has effectively happened.

[MineralMan]

7. I disagree. Trump is apparently regaining strength through his

televised rallies that are pretending to be about COVID-19.

It's time to focus on the main goal, not promote something that cannot take place. We can win in November. We cannot get Sanders' pet projects enacted.

[Butterflylady]

23. He says he wants the best for all Americans

Well, if that's true he should get out now. That's what's best for all Americans.

[MineralMan]

25. Obviously, I agree.

He should do more than just get out, though. He should enthusiastically endorse the presumptive Democratic nominee. We need his followers to vote for Biden, too.

[Blue_true]

124. Trump is making himself look like a fool in the COVID-19 "briefings".

The only thing that can upset the apple cart in Trump's favor would be for a medicine to be found before November, by USA scientists, not ones from China, South Korea, Italy, Japan or the rest of Europe. But Trump wants to lead all of the parade instead of focusing on leading people the way the President Obama would, so Trump is likely to screw things up, as clinical trials of medicines prove disappointing, he starts attacking the men and women that are working their asses off to come up with medicines and a vaccine, that will only lead to more breakdowns.

[Demsrule86]

139. No, it hurts us with money...can't begin to build a war chest for the presidential and down ballot

races...everyday Sanders stays in, he hurts our efforts to defeat Trump in November...get the fuck out Sen. Sanders.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I think Bernie's tail might be wagging his dog at this point.

That is to say, his most devoted cult followers are dictating his moves. If he dropped out now and endorsed Biden they'd be howling about how he betrayed The Revolution, and I don't think he wants to deal with that.

[MineralMan]

5. Poor Bernie...

He has my thoughts and prayers, to be sure...

[True Blue American]

8. Bless his heart!

[MineralMan]

10. I'm sure he means well, too,

but we "ain't got time for that now."

[The Magistrate]

14. Then He Ain't Much Of A Dog, Ma'am

If that is the case, and it may well be, the man has no capacity for leadership whatever.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. I agree.

His failure to control his more rabid, vicious supporters was proof of his inability, or maybe his unwillingness, to lead effectively.

[Fritz Walter]

96. A distant relation is part of this cult

And — judging from her posts on social media — it’s becoming abundantly clear that this is getting perilously close to a Jonestown-level of fanaticism. She’s not the only one.

Her feverish posts reflect the desperation within that cult. Bernie’s holding virtual town-hall meetings, while VP Biden doesn’t. To the cultists, this appears to be a sign of weakness. Maybe it’s because Joe no longer needs to. He’s got the lead in delegate-count.

IMHO, Bernie has an opportunity to show real leadership, by endorsing — and actively joining — a a much-larger movement. There’s WAY too much at stake than what (sadly) is likely to become a pissing contest in the well-orchestrated and — choreographed — 2020 election.

And the Drumpf campaign is rubbing their hands in glee (not hand-sanitizer) at this prospect!

Wake up, and give it up!

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

101. Not only Trump supports Bernie, but also Putin.

Trump's focus is on maintaining power while Bernie's is on tilting with windmills. By pulling out and throwing his full force behind Biden he will be seen as a hero. If he continue to play the game he's playing, he risks losing everything -- his reputation and any chance of his ideas being implemented.

An ego is a terrible thing to waste.

[Hortensis]

13. Ask Sanders if our different responses to pandemic is

what he means when he says Democrats are really just the same as Republicans.

Are Democrats REALLY also complicit in genocide?

[MineralMan]

18. I can only speak for myself, I'm afraid.

I can't tell you why "so many Joe supporters" do anything. However, I can tell you what I think, and have done so in the opening post of this thread. I'm pretty sure I explained myself adequately there, so i won't belabor my point any further to you.

The question, really, is: Wouldn't our nation be better served if Bernie Sanders pitched in to help Joe Biden win against Donald Trump?

What is your answer to that question, which is really the one raised in my OP?

I maintain my original position, despite your concern.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. Because Bernie insists on bringing attention to himself. Warren, Amy, Pete...

and the rest, even Bloomberg, are focusing on November and helping the presumed nominee dump Trump.

Bernie acts as if that's not the point of it all.

[Butterflylady]

26. It's all about him!!!!!

[femmedem]

24. Ordinarily I would say you are right, and I do appreciate Bernie's influence on the party's platform

But if he forces states like mine to hold a primary, he is endangering a lot of people--and of course the people who are most at risk are least likely to be his supporters.

I've always liked him. I voted for him in the 2016 primary. But his window to victory is gone, and I will never forgive him if he forces people to the polls unnecessarily.

[trc]

42. LOL

I nearly spit out my coffee at this comment: Corporate Dem Fascist Tools...OMG that was funny! No doubt many corporate dems are tools, but fascists? (By the way, what, exactly, defines a "corporate dem"?) I wonder why 4 years on the "Revolution" is failing?

[Gothmog]

34. What has sanders accomplished in the real world? I keep asking this question with no answers

I admit that I never considered sanders to be a serious candidate and never understood sanders appeal. sanders has no significant legislative accomplishments in his time in Congress in large part because sanders never bothered to attempt to get his fellow members of congress to support his programs. In the real world, it takes hard work and getting along with people to get major legislation passed. I was not surprised with sanders admitted that he does not try to get along with his fellow members of congress and that he was not good at pleasantries

Link to tweet

I agree with the NYT description of their decision not to endorse sanders in that sanders is too inflexible and that he is not able to compromise. Compromise is key to getting legislation adopted in the real world

Link to tweet

I admit that i do not understand sanders magical voter revolution that sanders claims will enable him to get his agenda adopted. I do not believe in magic and I have seen no evidence that sanders has a magical voter revolution.

Here is on one more question

Link to tweet

Merely announcing a proposal is meaningless in the real world One needs votes to get a major piece of legislation adopted and sanders has not shown that he can do this in the real world

[kstewart33]

45. Why do so many Bernie supporters spend so much time urging Bernie to stay in the race?

When the one option is clearly the best - suspend his campaign and work to unify the Democrat party. (For evidence of the Bernie supporters doing this, take a quick look on Twitter.)

If Bernie stays in the race, the primaries continue and people go to the polls and spread the virus. For what? He has no chance of winning the nomination.

Bernie, this is absurd. Quit the race and unify.

[jimfields33]

82. Bernie gets to decide and only him

There won’t be primaries for 2 months most likely so he’s hurting no one. Biden’s doing phone calls with the media everyday. Bernie’s not stopping him from getting attention. There is no problem.

[NCProgressive]

89. The bottom line is that Bernie is clinging on to a non-existent hope

and in the process, not allowing Democrats to unite behind a nominee.

Bernie refuses to accept that millions of Democrats have rejected him.

[nolawarlock]

104. Which is worse in another way ...

If he holds on forever, Biden's not going to have the time to mount a campaign against Trump. That is, unless he completely ignored Bernie's existence, holds no more debates with him, and proceeds as if Trump and only Trump is his opponent.

I'm sure Biden's people are considering this as a strategy. The ads seem to suggest it. Biden basically needs to catch up with the rest of us who already know that Bernie has no chance and pretend he's just not there. It's really not that hard anyway. The man isn't exactly a bundle of accomplishments.

[George II]

111. We're wasting time! Biden can be going directly after trump NOW and the DNC can start....

....fundraising for Biden. Until there's only one candidate left, they won't do that.

Sanders has zero chance of winning, and his dream of "influencing the narrative and/or platform" is frittering away. His reputation and influence is being damaged every single minute that he remains a candidate.

Time to think of the millions of Americans in danger instead of onesself.

[Demsrule86]

52. The reason is simple...by remaining in the race Sanders helps Trump and the dangers of Trump

winning reelection can't be overstated...if Sanders gives a damn about this country,he will get out today. This is pretty much what I feared would happen...Sanders refusing to concede even though he has lost the race...I did not want him to run as I believed he would lose the primary and refuse to concede.

[dalton99a]

17. Mass deaths will commence shortly in the U.S.

Bernie is becoming increasingly irrelevant

[MineralMan]

19. Yes. Bernie Sanders Is Irrelevant in Many Ways.

However, his supporters are not irrelevant to the upcoming election. That is what my call to him is about. If he is a leader, then let him lead those supporters to join with Democrats to defeat Trump. Let him lead them to the polls in November, enthusiastically and robustly. If he cannot do that, then he is not a leader who cares about the welfare of this nation. In that case, yes, he is truly irrelevant.

[C Moon]

21. To me, it looks like Bernie's ego is getting in the way.

[MineralMan]

27. Anyone who undertakes to run for President is someone with a large ego.

That comes with the impulse to run. People's egos often get in the way of their sensible actions. More's the pity.

[The Magistrate]

28. Aiding Trump Is His Only Leverage, Sir

It may be an unfair reading of your comment, but it seems you would be on-board with that. No surer means exist of securing re-election for Trump (one shudders even to write the words) than Sanders engaging in an third party campaign.


"Now that is cool. A highwayman puts a gun to my head and says give me your money or I shall have to shoot you, and then you will become a murderer."

[Blue_true]

131. It is truly mind boggling that Sanders supporters that clearly see themselves

as progressives can remotely make it possible for a person like Trump to have a chance at winning.

My guess on them is that they are populists for the things that put money in their pockets, but they are conservative on a lot of the social reforms that Trump has been busily gutting -they just don't care about anyone outside of some small circle that they tread in.

BTW, welcome back. I joined in 2010 and remember some of the people that took on MannyGoldstein and the small, but corrosive group that thought like him.

[MineralMan]

30. I cannot tell Bernie or anyone else what to do.

I can and do, however, suggest a course of action for him to consider. That I can do at any time and directed at anyone.

You suggest that Bernie's response might be to run as an independent? Really? If that were an actual possibility, that would be absolutely horrifying, because the consequences would be another four years of Trump. Not even Bernie Sanders would think that was a good idea, I'm quite sure.

So, I'm going to ignore such a threat completely. He will not do that. He would not threaten to do that. He has promised that he would not consider that in public statements.

Perhaps you don't know him as well as you believe you do, eh?

In any case, I doubt you represent the Seven Horses of the Apocalypse any better than you do Bernie Sanders.

[paleotn]

65. If he does....

He will lose and cease to be a Vermont senator. We won't put up with that shit. Then again, if that happens there probably won't be a Senate anymore, so that point is moot.

[NCProgressive]

90. He cannot run as an independent now

"Sore loser" laws preclude him from running.

[kstewart33]

100. Well, we all know how that will turn out.

A la Ralph Nader in 2000. Result: GW Bush and the Iraq war.

[erlewyne]

31. If we did it Bernie's way we would be in a hell of lot better shape.

I am voting democrat. Always have. I am a Vietnam veteran
with two years of my life wasted. There are two sides to every
coin and it is men like Bernie that make this country grow, not Al
Gore's running mate.

I love my Post Office and Medicare and Social security.

[MineralMan]

35. Perhaps. But we have already seen that we are not

going to do that. The voters have made their preference clear, and polling indicates that is not going to change.

So, your preference is moot, really. All that remains is for Bernie Sanders to accept that he will not be the nominee, and support the nominee selected by the primary voters. He seems reluctant to do so.

[erlewyne]

46. Pardon me,

I do not recall preferring Bernie over Biden. Are you on a bandwagon?

[George II]

94. Really? You said this:

If we did it Bernie's way we would be in a hell of lot better shape.

it is men like Bernie that make this country grow

That's not preferring Bernie over Biden?

[ehrnst]

54. "Al Gore's running mate?" What does that have to do with the discussion?

Yes, it's clear you like Bernie, but no, he's not the only ethical choice, nor the only one who will protect social security...

[erlewyne]

75. I voted for Gore

but his DINO running mate was a deterioration of our party.
Just like you "Wall Street Hillary" fans. It is all about our greed.

Is Biden for "Medicare for all"? Is Debbie Wasserman Schultz for
"Medicare for All"? Hell no. We are a bunch of greedies. worried
about "food stamps". I am UNION, I believe in working. Everybody
should get paid well. I mean women as well as men.

Bernie is not my choice, nor is Biden, but I vote Democratic. I get
tired of Bernie getting a label here on DU. He is not a communist.

[coti]

97. I barely voted to keep your post,

but your attacks on other Dems are very much pushing the line. Most everyone here agrees with your positions and understands what you're saying, and it would do more damage to quelch your opinions- that's why I voted against deleting your post.

But you need to know that you're being needlessly divisive in a time when it's a matter of our nation's and children's futures that we stay united against this fascism. For now, please tone it down.

[erlewyne]

114. Dump me.

I am not a troll. I am a Democrat, me and Jimmy Carter.

[irisblue]

151. A clarification please

Are you asking to be blocked by the poster you are replying to?

Or are you asking to be dumped by DU?

thx

[Mr.Bill]

88. What does Joe Lieberman have to do with the conversation? n/t

[NCProgressive]

91. ...

[George II]

92. Al Gore's running mate is running this year?

[Demsrule86]

140. Bernie did not give you any of that...Democrats did.

[bfealk]

36. Don't go, Bernie

Bernie needs to stay the race till the very end. Bernie is the de facto leader of he country right now. No on has seen Joe since the last debate. Where is Joe? Why isn't he leading?

[MineralMan]

37. Where is Bernie? Is He Taking Part in Senate Actions?

Is he leading? No. He is in Vermont, "assessing," while the body he was elected to by voters in Vermont is trying to figure out what legislation to pass.

Bernie Sanders is the leader of nothing at the moment. He is not even doing his job as a Senator.

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to be making much sense in your first post in the past 90 days.

[The Magistrate]

38. This, Sir, May Be The Single Stupidest Post Made Today

Someone might top it before midnight, but it would be a titanic effort to do so.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[MineralMan]

41. There Is, Sir, Considerable Competition for That Award.

Indeed there is.

[grantcart]

50. Oh the day is young

[ehrnst]

48. "Defacto leader of the country?" No that would be Nancy Pelosi, not Bernie.

One would hope that Bernie is doing his job in the Senate at this point. Joe Biden is a candidate, and doing better at leading and reassuring people than Sanders is...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/21/politics/joe-biden-coronavirus-campaign-tactics/index.html

[greatauntoftriplets]

83. And Hamlet was the de facto leader of Denmark...

during the "to be or not to be" soliloquy?

[George II]

99. "No on has seen Joe since the last debate"? That sure isn't correct. Where is Sanders????

The Senate has been in session all week, including today. Sanders left Washington on Wednesday night and, except for his online rock concert last night he's been virtually invisible.

Why isn't Sanders doing his job in the Senate this week?

[mcar]

107. "Bernie is the de facto leader of the country right now"

How so? Please, enlighten us.

[Demsrule86]

142. That is why he has to go...he is not the leader of anything...he is a failed presidential candidate.

Joe Biden is the leader of our party and our only hope to rid this country of Trump. Sanders is an obstacle to beating Trump in November as long as he refuses to concede...and in the end he will have no real power anywhere if he doesn't do the right thing. He could be a leader in the Senate but now while he sits in Vermont with fake presidential round table 'discussions'.

[warmfeet]

39. For the good of this nation and every person living here,

Bernie needs to drop out now. In addition, he needs to tell his supporters, unequivocally, to vote for Joe Biden in the general election. This is not a time to play around. We need real leadership - we cannot afford another 4 years of gross incompetence with the orange one. Lives depend on us making the correct choice. I am quite a bit to the left of Joe Biden, but I am a realist and I relish the opportunity to vote for him this November. We must defeat this incumbent. I cannot even imagine what this country will look like with another 4 years of trumpista rule.

[MineralMan]

40. Well Stated!

Thank you for the reply!

[ehrnst]

43. Good points. (nt)

[MineralMan]

44. Thanks!

[quakerboy]

47. We get it

You dont like Bernie. You never liked bernie. You wish he would just go eat worms.

So, what do we do now?

1) Try to find ways to work together because the first and most important goal is to beat trump

2) Do our best to repeat 2016, voluntarily and vehemently dividing our party and alienating a significant chunk of voters in our ferver to hate one of the democratic candidates.



The future starts now, and if DU is any measure, it is VERY cloudy. These days we seem to be a credible argument that Democrats would prefer to go with option two. Who cares about beating Trump, whats important is beating our fellow democrats into submission, or at least away from our particular candidate.

I really hope that Joe and Bernie have a clearer head and are talking about things behind the scenes. And that the rest of Democratic voters at large are not mirroring the hate I see here.

[MineralMan]

51. You are incorrect. I do like Bernie.

I like his voice in the Senate. I do not think he would make a good President. Apparently, a sizable majority of Democrats agrees with that assessment. As for your points:

1. One of the way we work together to defeat Trump is for the loser of the primary race to join with the winner, through endorsement and leadership, to bring the loser's supporters to the polls to vote for the winner. That is something Bernie Sanders can do, starting immediately.

2. 2016 is ample evidence of my response to your point 1.

Bernie Sanders must decide on his course of action. I have suggested a course I think would be best. I cannot tell Bernie Sanders what to do, though. I can only hope that he will decide wisely what he should do.

Good day to you, Sir.

[quakerboy]

154. The post I responded to did not indicate that.

It falls in line with the hate that I see here on the regular. I basically dont post anymore, I cant even read here often nowdays because of it. If I spend a couple hours here, i start to weaken in my resolve to vote for Biden. Because of his supporters and the clear "fuck bernie and the horse he rode in on any anyone who ever supported him. I responded to you because ive read you before and usually respect and find wisdom in what you write.

Biden has won the primary in all but technicality and continues to campaign to be the democratic Nominee. Bernie is campaigning to bring in donations for charities. How much less of a threat could he be? I also disagree that Bernie is in charge of most of his supporters. See example: me. I've been a supporter for years. But I joined the Biden bandwagon at the time I chose, for the reasons I chose. Still love Bernie, still think hes the better choice, but his chance came and went, and its time for me to go with necessity over preference. And having the primary elections, which are not really in question at this point, continue on harms no one and lets voters make their will in picking Joe Biden ever more clear.

All the bagging on Bernie and his supporters here only serves to harm Bidens general election campaign. Bernie will not be winning the primary. It would take an act of god. And if that happens, none of our conversations here will mean spit. But breeding and feeding the interparty hate.. That could well lose votes for Biden.

My basic point, to draw a clumsy metaphor, is that our team is 21-0 ahead, with possession, and 30 seconds left on the clock. This is a great time to be chanting our teams name, building momentum, enjoying victory. Wasting our time booing the other teams continued existence serves no helpful purpose at this time.

And drawing away from that metaphor, we need the support of the other teams supporters in the final round, because the number of people cheering a team is what determines the final win, not the skill, ability, or worthiness of the teams.

[MineralMan]

156. Yes, I can see that you haven't posted much in the past 90 days.

I feel rather honored that you chose my thread in which to make one or two of your rare posts.

[quakerboy]

160. Ha.

Its because I respect your postings here. Even when I dont agree with you, I usually see wisdom in what you have to say. It makes me think. This time I just felt you were running down the wrong path.

I just want us to work on how we can come together, how we can find ways to live with each other despite the clear splits in our party. Because winning the GE is more important. This is why I refrained from attacking any of our candidates through this, even the one I really thought would have been a disastrous choice. We need all of us together at the end of this. And it I think its far easier to be gracious in victory than it is to be in loss and grief.

I'm more afraid of Trump than of Covid19. I think if he gets another term he will kill many more of us than any plague ever will. Thats whats driving me.

[The Magistrate]

87. Why Is Not On Sanders To Co-Operate, Sir?

Most discussion seems to take it as axiomatic Sanders must be petted and coaxed, but certainly never coerced, into joining a unified effort (a Popular Front, if you will) aiming to take out Trump and restore some sanity to our nation's government, and that only if the right combination of pretties please and sugars on top can be found will the man consent to do this. Why?





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[quakerboy]

136. I take it as axiomatic that

the segment of voters who have so far chosen sanders should be coaxed and courted.

The literally millions of people who chose to vote for Bernie sanders over all of the other potential candidates, each for their own reasons. Want to win? Sure California is blue no matter who. But Colorado.. Biden will need the 36% of Democrats who supported Bernie. And in Nevada. And in Minnesota, and Michigan and any number of other states that aren't just guaranteed blue wins. Heck even in states where Biden had his blowouts.. The Carolinas. If Biden is going to win the GE in those tough states, he will need the support of the minorities that voted for Sanders as well as the majorities that gave him his primary victory.

We need ALL of us on board to win. Trump will be cheating. We need margins that make it impossible to steal.

Sanders himself.. if he becomes a problem in the quest to remove trump, as a long time supporter, I say fuck him. Its not about Sanders, it never has been, and if it ever is, his movement is dead. Personally, I dont think that he is a problem. I think that as a person of Jewish heritage who's family came from Poland, he sees as clearly as almost anyone alive exactly what a second term of Trump would mean for all of us.

But the voters behind him, those we need.. We cant assume that trump is so bad that they will just fall in line, or be unnecessary. Thats what happened in 2016, and it has turned out disastrously for the country.

[The Magistrate]

144. Then Why Is He Delaying, Sir?

What prevents him from endorsing Mr. Biden now, and beginning the work of making sure his supporters come into the fold? We both know the sooner that is done, the better.

[quakerboy]

155. We know nothing of the kind.

In the end, it has little to do with Sanders, and more to do with the voters who chose him. Most of his supporters will come to vote for biden in their own time. And his endorsement is relatively unimportant to many of us who have supported Bernie. We make our own choices, in our own time.

But what you are missing is that he already has begun the work. He came out and said he would be supporting biden when he has the delegates to win, or even if he enters the convention with just a plurality. Thats laying groundwork to endorse and support as a logical step in the process. He is asking for donations to charity, not to his campaign. I know because I still get the texts and emails several times a day. Thats not what you do if your intent on fighting a primary, thats how you ease your supporters into a new direction. He even went extremely easy on biden in the debate. He could have brought a lot of fire and tried to tear the VP down, at least in the eyes of his supporters. He didn't.

He is doing a ton of work in trying to prep his supporters to vote for Biden. But everyone here on DU seems determined to try and undo that work and drive people who voted for him away from Biden. I flat dont get it.

Why do people here want to repeat 2016? I want to win this. I dont want to die in a trump death camp.

[The Magistrate]

157. To Put It Bluntly, Sir, That's A Load Of Crap

The man can ease his supporters along perfectly well after conceding he has lost the contest.

Sanders is following the course he laid down four years ago, and there is no reason whatever to suppose he will not play the same wrecker's role today he did then.




"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[quakerboy]

158. To put it bluntly

I have no time for your desire for petty over victory. I dont want to die in a trump death camp.

Go Biden, and goodbye

[The Magistrate]

159. As You Wish, Sir

Though you seem to be reversing polarities on the 'petty' accusation. It is Sanders putting personal feelings over union for victory, by all apparent indications.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Demsrule86]

143. There is nothing to talk about...Bernie was beaten badly. He needs to concede and endorse if he

really wants to get rid of Trump.

[quakerboy]

165. Bernie has lost. Concession and endorsement are meaningless at this point

Now its time for Biden and more especially we who want Biden to beat Trump to work on that. It is the primary goal. Beat Trump.

And repeating the mistakes of 2016 is not the way to accomplish that.

In 2016.. Hillary supporters literally told me not to bother voting for Hillary. They had this in the bag, they didnt need me as a primary supporter of Bernie to sully their candidate with my vote. I did vote for her. I had a bad feeling about things and wanted to do anything I could to prove my fears about Trump wrong. But I was literally told not to by Hillary supporters so cocky they didnt think we needed all of us to beat Trump.

Lets not do this again. Lets be gracious in victory, not bitter. It feels like some here are more focused on creating an excuse for a GE loss than on creating a GE win.

We need a GE win. Hot fantasy football league need, like.. if we want to survive as individuals or as a nation need. This isnt a game. Lets get on doing the things to bring that about.

[Demsrule86]

166. Concessions are not meaningless...just saying if he suspends his campaign,it works for me so we can

begin fundraising...Trump has a huge war chest and it will be tough for us with the Corona recession...Sanders needs to get out...I don't give a damn if he concedes or endorses...he just needs to quit so the DNC can begin fundraising for Biden and for down ballot races.

[grantcart]

49. If you read the excellent NY Times article on how the campaign fell apart

3 things are clear

1) Bernie knows Biden is a good man, knows he is incorruptible and can't be attacked

2) Refused multiple attempts by Democratic leaders to be conciliatory and broaden his appeal.

3) Sanders (I) and his wife absolutely do not listen to any one and will not take the most reasonable advice (like not embracing Castro before the Florida primary or putting Nina Turner in charge of SC campaign. Fact is he Got lots of good advice but never took it.

(Interesting how he cut Sirota off)

So your sage advice has, like all of the others, will not be listened to.

[MineralMan]

53. You are correct, I think, on all counts.

However, I cannot resist offering advice in this. I am that concerned with the future of the nation.

[usaf-vet]

55. Better Joe! Let's DumptheTrumpS in 2020!

[MineralMan]

56. +100

[littlemissmartypants]

57. Some people have a remarkable ability to inflate and

believe in their own sense of self importance.

[MineralMan]

60. I don't fault political candidates for their large egos.

An expansive ego is an essential part of running for high office, I think. One must believe that he or she has ideas superior to the other candidates for that office, whether that is true or not.

However, part and parcel of running for office is the chance of losing. If that occurs, it is essential to step back and accept the will of the voters and act in a way that advances the better choice in the election.

If someone's ego is too large to accept that, then a mistake was made in running in the first place. That often occurs, I suspect.

[demigoddess]

58. More than enough, Bernie.

[customerserviceguy]

62. What if

everybody just ignored Bernie Sanders? Clearly, the Democratic nomination race is not at the forefront of the news these days, and won't be until the convention.

Frankly, a lot of my worry about what the Sanders supporters will do or not do this November have been calmed. The mushy middle hates being inconvenienced, and coronavirus will make them pissed off enough at whoever is in charge.

[MineralMan]

63. Well, if EVERYBODY just ignored Bernie Sanders, that would be fine.

However, there will be, and are, a lot of people who are not ignoring him. In reality, will will need some of those to vote for Joe Biden in November. Really, only Bernie can convince some to do that by supporting Biden enthusiastically. Others, who are avid Sanders supporters might well react with a fit of pique and withhold their vote or vote contrary to even their own principles. That happened in the last presidential election.

Only Bernie can convince some of his followers to support and vote for Biden. Will he do that? I do not know. He was very late in finally supporting Hillary Clinton, so it's unclear.

[customerserviceguy]

67. Like I said

I'm not as worried about the Sanders supporters as I used to be. Clearly, they believed Hillary Clinton was going to win, so that made their vote for Stein, etc. risk-free.

They know better this time around, and in any case, swing voters always vote for whoever scares them the least. How that cannot be Joe Biden after the unprecedented hell that we're about to go through would defy the psychological/sociological rules that underlie the science of politics.

[MineralMan]

70. Sadly, people do not always vote rationally.

Plus, there can be interference with elections that allows a small minority to affect results inordinately.

That's why Biden needs the support of Sanders supporters - just in case.

[customerserviceguy]

74. They always vote

for what they perceive to be their best interests. No, not a "big picture" best interest, but in whatever has freaked them out most recently.

Coronavirus will not be over and done with by November. Even if there are no more sick and dying, the economic damage will take years to repair, and the memory of recently deceased victims of the pandemic will not have faded away. And even Sanders supporters know that. There was a feeling (fed by Wikileaks, of course) that somehow Hillary and the DNC "cheated" Bernie Sanders, when it will be obvious that Joe Biden will win the nomination by having won enough votes to get the nomination on the first ballot.

Sanders and Biden do not have the hostility that Sanders had for Hillary Clinton four years ago, that will be reflected in the behavior of his supporters.

[MineralMan]

77. Well, I hope we don't have to worry about that.

A strong, timely endorsement by Senator Sanders would help ensure that result, I believe.

[customerserviceguy]

80. Whether it happens now

or at the convention, the result will be the same. At this point, and for all the time between now and then, people will have other things on their minds.

[MineralMan]

81. I disagree on the timing, but that's OK.

[NotHardly]

64. Bernie is about to become "old man shaking his fist at the moon" kinda guy. Go Home Bern, it's over.

We have other work to do ... go home already. Yeah, thanks for everything, bye."

[PJMcK]

66. "Be a mensch"

Well-written, as always, MM.

Nice touch using Yiddish!

[MineralMan]

71. There are some words in Yiddish that have no equal in English.

I know some of those words.

[PJMcK]

113. As a long-time New Yorker, I know exactly what you mean

There are a few others (that we needn't mention) that capture a fundamental essence!

[airmid]

68. While I agree he needs to get his butt back and vote, he has been using his donantion

list to raise money for those in dire need right now as well as helping inform people with his round tables. As to where he goes from here, that’s his decision.

[MineralMan]

73. Yes, it is his decision, which is why I'm encouraging him to

make a good decision that benefits the nation.

[Demsrule86]

145. Time for him to go...and the donations pay something to act blue...and is the entire amount donated?

I never heard of such a thing.

[Gore1FL]

69. Cool, another divisive thread. nt

[MineralMan]

72. Is it? I disagree.

I'm asking Bernie Sanders to do a thing that is the opposite of being divisive. Isn't it interesting that some see such a request as divisive? Hmm...

[Gore1FL]

93. Dictating the actions of someone else based on a misguided understanding isn't helpful.

I am glad Biden is a better candidate that you think he is and more astute politically than you are.

[MineralMan]

95. How is a suggestion dictating anything?

I have zero authority over anything.

[Gore1FL]

109. FFS nt

[jaxexpat]

76. Bernie could be the white knight making the final thrust into the heart of "conservatism".....

If he chose to! That would be an uplifting event in these downer days. May even make the history books if anyone bothers to write them anymore.

[MineralMan]

78. Very nicely said!

[hangaleft]

115. I have read all of the posts and points made and countered in this thread with great interest

I’m a Warren Democrat. Because I support her positions and believe she would make a great president who would have fought tooth and nail for impactful reform of our economic and health care systems.

Warren rightfully suspended her campaign. And I believe that Sanders should do the same and endorse Biden.

But your post confuses me. It implies that conservatism is weak. While it might be a little weaker today than it was a month ago, I don’t believe it is weak and subject to a “final thrust into [its] heart”. And, moreover, even if it were, Joe Biden would not be the man to deliver that thrust. A central theme of Biden’s campaign has been his time in the Senate and his ability to work with the “other side” (I prefer to refer to them as our enemy) and get things done. Such a candidate has not positioned himself to deliver a final thrust into the heart of conservatism. To the contrary, he wants to work with them.

It is, indeed, time for Sanders to stop tilting at windmills and endorse Biden. But to see Biden as a champion of the defeat of conservatism is just plain wrong.

[showblue22]

133. The op said Bernie, not Biden. nt

[hangaleft]

134. My mistake

As Roseanne Roseannadanna would say, never mind.

[secondwind]

79. For the record, Bernie Sanders did stump for Hillary.

[MineralMan]

84. Yes. I remember that.

It took him a while, though.

[Happy Hoosier]

106. Sorta.

I remember vividly that he was asked if Hillary would make a good President. His answer was that defeating Donald Trump was important. Not exactly an endorsement.

Not a gracious bone...

[showblue22]

108. It would have been better if he didn't.

He took a month off first to write a book. Things had died down and people were moving on.. Him back only riled things up again.

[The Magistrate]

112. He Did Not Do What He Had To, Ma'am, To Be Effective At It

Which was to apologize for his conduct, and own up to his lies about corruption on Mrs. Clinton's part. He needed to say he had not told the truth in his attacks on her, and to say he regretted having smeared a fine woman who would make a great President. He needed to acknowledge he lost fair and square, because he was not the choice of Democratic Party voters, as registered by Mrs. Clinton's receiving several million more votes than he did. He needed to tell his supporters to pack it in, and that he disowned them as splinterists and wreckers if they did not. A gentlemen would done all of this, though a gentleman would not have conducted himself as Sanders did in the first place.



"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Gothmog]

86. This is interesting

Last edited Sat Mar 21, 2020, 04:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[MineralMan]

98. Weird.

[Gothmog]

146. Yes very weird

Link to tweet

[hangaleft]

118. Bernie's remarks about Cuba were just plain stupid

At best, he had to fight the “socialist” tag he himself stupidly embraced. But socialism is not the same as communism, and Sanders’ Cuba remarks transformed him in the eyes of many into a communist. And that was the death knell of his campaign.

BTW, I support Warren because I believe she would beat Trump. I also believe that Bernie would lose in a landslide because America is just not ready for a “socialist” of any stripe. Sanders might have won the election despite being a “Democratic Socialist”, but no way in hell was he gonna dodge being labeled a “communist” after his stupid remarks about Castro.

[Gothmog]

102. Bernie was so sure he was going to beat Biden that he campaigned in Klobouchar and Warren's states

Link to tweet

[IluvPitties]

103. K&R! Bravo!

Dude needs to focus in his Senate job.

[James48]

117. GET OFF MY LAWN!

Don’t try to tell anyone else what to do, please.

[MineralMan]

123. Please consider taking your own advice...

[TwilightZone]

127. Like you just did?

Oh, the irony.

[MineralMan]

129. Irony is a funny thing...

[showblue22]

135. We're tired, exhausted.

I know not everyone agrees but a lot of us feel he is divisive, negative, and angry. Many of us believe he makes others feel that way. We've had to listen to him, his campaign and his surrogates spew those emotions across the nation for 5 years now. Him staying in is not harmless. It's stressful and for what? He can't win. It's over, drop out, Bernie.

[Gothmog]

121. This amuses me

Link to tweet

[William769]

125. Kick & recommended.

[Pillow talk]

126. oh shush

[MineralMan]

128. Sorry. I won't do that.

[emmaverybo]

137. Bravo!

[theglammistress]

130. Bernie needs to drop out

1. Bernie can't win.

2. I'm very worried about our national campaign now. The news is pandemic 24/7 as it should be - but that means Joe isn't getting any airtime. Trump blusters and babbles on TV every day now. He's an unhinged asshat but his base loves that I guess.

3. I don't see how we have a big, televised convention at this point. I hope I am wrong. Is the DNC even working on a virtual/televised only convention where we still get prime time speeches and everything? Who the hell knows.

4. What about our vote from home options? We better freaking figure that out for November - the election is going to be a mess. A lot of the primaries have been moved, further hurting Biden's delegation collection (see the debacle of Ohio). The next two primaries were scrapped. We'll see if any voting happens April 4.

It all feels dire.

[betsuni]

141. It's going to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on...

It's not normal politics, that has reasons for doing things. I don't know what this is.

[Tarheel_Dem]

147. TRUTH!!!!

[Aaron Pereira]

148. Nearly half of Democratic primary voters have not voted yet.

I want everyone who contributed, organized and supported Bernie Sanders and the causes he championed to vote and have their opinion registered. Bernie won't be pushed out early when there are many votes to be cast and so much could change in the world and in the Democratic race between now and the convention. Sorry.

[SlimJimmy]

149. Bernie needs to drop out and support Joe.

But I'm preaching to the choir here, right?

[George II]

153. For those who claim Sanders and/or his campaign aren't attacking Biden:

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

161. How do you hold a round table on COVID 19 with no medical expert?

Link to tweet

?s=20

[MineralMan]

162. The Rest of the Senate is in DC, voting on a relief bill. Bernie has a Concert,

and without anyone who is in any way medically qualified.

And there you have it.

[Gothmog]

163. Did this rally flop?

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Gothmog]

164. This makes me smile

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

167. Arggh

Link to tweet

?s=20

[MineralMan]

168. He also can't show up at his job in the Senate

to provide his unmistakable style of "leadership."

[fallout87]

169. And if Biden's campaign completely falls apart?

Which is not totally out of the questions considering his performance in his last few interviews.


What then??

[MineralMan]

170. Is that something you hope for?

I don't see that happening, to tell you the truth. I think he has done quite well in interviews. I haven't seen Bernie Sanders being interviewed recently, so I can't compare the two. The Senator cursed at one reporter who asked him a question, so maybe he's not in the mood for interviews right now. That's fine, but Biden is being interviewed regularly.

Where is Bernie? Why isn't he eagerly seeking interviews with the media? He is still a candidate, right?