Tell me again why Biden has to reach out to Sanders voters?

[mcar]

Link to tweet

?s=20

19% of Sanders voters in Michigan say they will *not* vote for the Democratic nominee regardless of who it is in the election for president this November via @CNN exit polls.

[MineralMan]

1. Because we need as many of them as possible to vote for Biden.

Nothing will be accomplished by alienating them further.

[mcar]

8. Everyone else's supporters simply move to the leader

That's what I did. No one needed to appease me.

Also, my post said nothing about alienating, just about reaching out. I expect that most Sanders supporters will support Joe because they are mature and true Democrats. However, this 19% statistic is troubling. Remember that more Sanders supporters in MI voted for Trump/3rd party/wrote in Sanders name that the margin of Trump's "victory."

[asiliveandbreathe]

25. Exactly..it seems everyone else's supporters followed their candidates lead -

Beto, Klobachar, Booker etc..Bernie could help this effort along as well..bring his supporters to Vote Blue No Matter Who, when the Democratic candidate, voted to nomination during the primary season BY THE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS>>>>

This talk of not voting is so hurtful to those of us who want to beat the pos in the WH...

[bottomofthehill]

41. How about to win in November

[democrattotheend]

62. Not really

I recall quite a few Hillary supporters who refused to vote for Obama in 2008. And I expect it would have been more if he hadn't worked hard to earn their votes.

[LisaM]

130. I recall zero.

I think that is simply untrue. I don't know a single Hillary voter - not one - who refused to vote for Obama and I know a fair number who actually went out to work for him. I know plenty of Sanders voters who are still griping about 2016 and "rigged!". I know you can dig up a couple of articles but speaking from personal experience, I just think it's untrue. And just another way of poking Hillary supporters, which has been a favorite spectator sport in the US for over a decade.

All you really need to consider are the election results. If Hillary voters had really stayed home or voted for McCain (especially in swing states), how did Obama win so handily?

[treestar]

84. but just like last time, they demand to be begged and courted

unlike the supporters of just about every other candidate.

[rampartc]

11. +1

[LanternWaste]

12. Does lecturing Sanders to drop out count as 'alienating them'?

Or do we find a distinction lacking a relevant difference to pretend a preening self-righteousness is something other than what it is?

[MineralMan]

51. ..

[KPN]

35. Thank you MineralMan. Perfect response.

Peace.

[Bev54]

2. Cannot take the chance

that they vote for Trump or stay home, need a full dem response to Trump. He is also running on bringing the country together and this is certainly part of it.

[Cary]

10. WE, THE PEOPLE will turn out

I welcome the radical left but I will not expend an ounce of energy going down their rabbit hole. All my energy is going to enabling Democrats to turn out. If we Democrats turn out we do not need radicals.

[notinkansas]

131. Radicals?

We radicals are also Democrats and Joe will need all the help he can get in order to combat the cheating repubs are sure to do to try to win.

[StarfishSaver]

85. Anyone who right now is considering voting for Trump or staying at home if they can't have Bernie

is not likely to be convinced to vote for Biden, no matter how lovingly he smooches their hind ends

[empedocles]

3. Dems need all the help we can get

[ReformedGOPer]

104. HRC pandered to him, even had a night at the convention devoted

to him, and still many Berniacs said they could not vote for anyone but Bernie. I'm so tired of cowing to Berniacs to get their vote. The things they say online about Joe are evil, disgusting. Besides, Bernie can't get his own cult to come out to vote for him.

So no-thanks. Joe wasn't my first choice, but he's a decent, hard working family man who I am happy to cast my vote for. Plus, we know he'll only serve one term, so he is the best chance we (I) have to see a female president in my lifetime.

[empedocles]

111. Not pander, but allies are better than enemies or loose cannons.

[jalan48]

4. Do you like losing?

[mcar]

9. No, do you?

Why would any Democrat say they won't support the nominee if it's not their first choice. They are the ones who seem to like losing.

[jalan48]

33. Blaming the voters is a losing strategy.

[LakeArenal]

55. Why? The youth "voters" are one of the reasons Bernie is losing

I think we should reach out because Joe Biden wants us to.

[jalan48]

56. Shaming and blaming others for our losses just shows weakness. If Biden is our candidate then

we need to own it and work to get him elected on the merits of his own candidacy. Blaming looks like we're setting up a reason for his eventual failure.

[msongs]

59. u said quote: do you like losing? well that's what bernie is doing these days nt

[jalan48]

63. I'm looking forward to the last debate. One on one should be interesting.

[NanceGreggs]

105. There already was a one-on-one debate ...

... and Bernie used it to regurgitate his decades-old talking points, instead of answering the questions posed.

As for having another debate - why? Bernie has lost, he's not the nominee, and Joe's got better things to do than waste his time debating a loser.

[The Magistrate]

106. That Does Seem To Be About All He Can Do, Ma'am

He hardly even knows what his own plans are, let alone how they might be executed:


https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=696921





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[jalan48]

116. You need to compare the date of the OP and the post dates with the debate schedule.

[LakeArenal]

72. The only one shaming any one are Bernie and

The supporters. Even Saying we are wrong for not rolling over and play nice after you guys declared WAR on the Democratic Establishment. Yet I said we should reach out because Joe would want us to. Then you come back all in my face.

[jalan48]

73. Hey-Biden needs Bernie's supporters to vote for him. What do you think would be an effective

strategy to make that happen?

[mcar]

75. Bernie would have needed Biden's supporters too

As well as the other candidates' supporters. I saw no reaching out on the part of Team Bernie.

[jalan48]

79. It is what it is. Either we pull together or we don't. Blaming Sanders and his supporters is

counter productive. The ball is in Joe's court and how he plays it will likely determine the outcome of the 2020 election. I like that he has become more forceful in recent weeks because it's going to take that attitude to defeat Trump and his Neo-Fascist followers IMHO.

[LakeArenal]

88. I'm not on the campaign team.

Nor am I a pundit. All I know is Joe would want us to shut out Bernie Supports because they are Bernie supporters.

[hedda_foil]

89. Joe would be horrified by that. He would NOT want us to shut out Bernie supporters!

[lapucelle]

107. I have no problem shaming some people.

[The Magistrate]

109. Some People Do Need To Be Ashamed Of Themselves, Ma'am

"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[LizBeth]

81. Nothing will endear these people to vote for Biden, if Trump doesn't already do it. Nothing.

[ehrnst]

117. Sanders clearly feels no need to reach out to anyone who doesn't just agree with him on everything.

No matter the issue or alternative ways to achieve Democratic goals, even if the vast majority of Democrats have some disagreement with him.

[Turin_C3PO]

5. That number will go down as we get closer

to the general election. I believe in June 2016 up to 40% of Sanders voters said they wouldn’t vote for Clinton. It ended up being 12%. Still too many, but not as bad as it could have been. Like I’ve said in other threads, I think 90%+ of Sanders voters will pull the lever for Biden in the general. Anyway, I think we should refrain from gloating. It only hurts us.

[zackymilly]

13. Agree. Last survey I saw it was 30%. Now it's 19%. n/t

[mcar]

17. I hope you are correct

Link to tweet

?s=20

[W_HAMILTON]

28. The exact numbers are in dispute given the difficulty in determining something such as this...

...but from the numbers I saw, close to around 25% of Sanders voters did not vote for Hillary in the general. Some voted for Trump, some voted for Stein, and some sat out.

[Turin_C3PO]

30. Are you sure about that?

Every stat I’ve read always puts it at 12%.

[W_HAMILTON]

65. People that use that are doing so only to mislead you.

That 12% refers just to those that voted for Sanders and then Trump. But there were also people that voted for Sanders and then voted third party and people that voted for Sanders and chose not to vote at all for president in the general election. The information I am referring to was already posted further down:

Link to tweet

[Turin_C3PO]

66. Ah, ok, I stand corrected.

Thanks for the info!

[Locrian]

37. 25% included crossover trump supporters (non dems)

the 25% were democrats that were for HRC that voted for McCain

Still, your point stands - we need the numbers. Its math.

[W_HAMILTON]

64. Huh? No.

I don't know how or why you included McCain in any of this. Someone further down posted the information I was referring to -- here you go:

Link to tweet

[thesquanderer]

38. Just as 40% of Hillary voters in June 2008 said they would not support Obama.

And similarly, in the end, it wasn't nearly that bad.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/apr/21/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-history-shows-win-bernie-sanders/

[lapucelle]

50. The percentage was much higher than 12%. The 12% number is for BS to Trump voters specifically.

Link to tweet

According to the analysis of the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Survey, fewer than 80 percent of those who voted for Sanders, an independent, in the Democratic primary did the same for Clinton when she faced off against Trump a few months later.

What's more, 12 percent of those who backed Sanders actually cast a vote for Trump.

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

[Turin_C3PO]

52. Ok, I stand corrected.

I still think it will be better this time. My admittedly anecdotal experiences tell me that the vast majority of Sanders supporters will get behind Biden. Of course this depends on Bernie being gracious and not taking it to the convention and inflame his supporters.

[Cary]

6. I have always said that the radical left makes a lot of noise

But they are inept and ineffective.

[smb]

7. I Expect Biden Will Make All Reasonable Efforts To Win Them Over...

...while recognizing that some of them are as far gone as the stupidest of MAGAts.

[mcar]

14. I think he will too

[pampango]

15. Even if that 19% figure is representative, 81% of his supporters will vote for Biden.

I frequently hear that 'we need to come together' to unite to defeat Trump and the GOP. Is the 'coming together' and 'uniting' a one-way street? How many of that 81% will vote for Biden no matter what and how many could use a little 'coming together' from the other side to convince them to do so?

[mcar]

19. Coming together means coming together - it takes both sides

[pampango]

34. Indeed. n/t

[thesquanderer]

39. It is the role of the 1st place finisher to reach out to supporters of the 2nd place finisher,

not the other way around.

[mcar]

45. Nobody reached out to me

But I take your point. And, that is what Joe did in his speech last night.

I'm more concerned about the idea that Bernie & co will expect major concessions - and then a % of them still won't vote, or vote against Democrats.

[thesquanderer]

70. re: "a % of them still won't vote, or vote against Democrats."

...as always happens. Hillary had plenty of defections in 2008, i.e. supporters who chose not to vote for Obama. This is not a Sanders-specific phenomenon.

[dansolo]

93. Not quite the same situation

1. McCain was nowhere as bad as Trump
2. How many of those defections were because of race?

The reason that it is different is that Sanders is encouraging this behavior, even knowing exactly what four more years of Trump will look like.

[asiliveandbreathe]

16. Like Carville said last night.."the Democratic voters during the primary

spoke loud and clear"...this is where I just don't understand Sanders supporters..are the Democratic voters in the primary, to become hostage to some voters who may be upset with the current results??? I don't hear the supporters of other Democratic candidates who have dropped out, or endorsed Biden say they will not vote -

[mcar]

18. Krystal Ball

Link to tweet

?s=20

here we go—-krystal ball saying she will “leave it blank” in November. What an absolute hack.

[Sloumeau]

26. Krystal Ball seems to have a cracked crystal ball.

And the people who named her "Krystal Ball" seem to have a sick sense of humor.

[Turbineguy]

20. If that's true

Trump will have to thank Sanders for his help. Putin will be happy too.

[mcar]

21. It's discouraging

I thought people would have learned something from 2016.

[Gothmog]

22. Even after giving sanders everything he wanted in platform look at what happened last time

Link to tweet

[mcar]

46. This.

[thesquanderer]

68. Exit poll showed 16% of Hillary supporters who voted in November 2008 voted for McCain

I was not able to find a number for how many stayed home. But the point is, this is not a Sanders-specific phenomenon.

Source:
https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/exit.polls/

[Docreed2003]

80. And Cornell West, one of the people Bernie appointed to shape that platform

Went on to vocally support Jill Stein!!

[Qutzupalotl]

23. That's 81% who will or might or are undecided.

Yes, that’s worth reaching out for.

We want to win big, expand the majority in the House and retake the Senate. We need every vote.

[mcar]

47. Agreed

I guess I worded it poorly. My concern is that there will be an expectation of concessions, like in 2016, and a significant % won't vote for Democrats anyway.

[Sloumeau]

24. Biden does not have to reach out to Bernie's supporters yet,

but he needs to by the Convention, and sooner if Bernie drops out before then. Biden should ignore polls that say "I won't vote for Biden". Every voter is important, and Biden should conduct outreach to ever voter.

Remember that some of Bernie's support comes from Independents, who may sometimes vote for Democrats and may sometimes vote for Republicans. Some of them may actually switch to Trump if they don't get Bernie as the Democratic Nominee.

However, lots of evidence shows that Biden is getting votes from some Independents and some Republicans who are sick of Trump. Any losses that Democrats get from Bernie supporters flipping to Trump or sitting home will be more than made up for by Independents and Republicans who will find Biden a sane and reasonable alternative to Donald Trump.

Remember that in the 2018 Midterms, the Moderates did better than the Liberals in flipping red seats blue. If you want to flip a Red Presidency Blue, a Moderate is what you need.

[TDale313]

27. Because that means 81% will or are persuadable?

At a point where they’re least likely to be open to calls for party unity? But by all means, write all those people off because of the assholes 🤷🏻?♀️

[CincyDem]

29. So I read "81% of Sanders voters say the WILL (or probably WILL) vote for the Dem nominee".

That ain't bad. And the reason we reach out is to keep them engaged and is because they're and important constituency and their vision has merit. It's not that we disagree with the end point, we see a different path.

[mcar]

48. One would think they'd move to the nominee anyway

Joe reached out in his speech last night. What I'm seeing is a familiar refrain from 2016.

[bucolic_frolic]

31. Wow them with platform and policy, inform them about Trump

if they can't understand that they are bitter, angry, and crazy

[mcar]

49. Yes

[Act_of_Reparation]

32. Do you have a calculator nearby?

Subtract 19 from 100.

There's your answer.

[thesquanderer]

36. The tweet you quote in the op IS the answer to the question you posed. n/t

[ace3csusm]

40. Not Surprised, no one should they where never Democratics

Sanders(Independent), he has had 4years to unite, yet still hasnt changed his party affiliation...We just need to move forward with those who want honor, integrity and truth back in the white house...

[oasis]

42. A hungry person refusing half a loaf of bread. Is there a word for that?

[NurseJackie]

43. I take them at their word.

19% of Sanders voters in Michigan say they will *not* vote for the Democratic nominee

I take them at their word. As a party, we should not darken their door, ring their doorbell, call their phone, or litter their mailbox. They are all lost causes. It would be a waste of time, money, and resources to assume otherwise.

Instead of focusing SO MUCH effort in trying cajole and stroke and flatter and validate those ratfuckers who likely won't vote for the Democrat (REGARDLESS of how much ego-massaging they get) I think the party could get dozens MORE new voters for the same effort.

Gaining dozens of voters in exchange for ONE sabotaging ratfucker's non-vote? Sounds like a fair trade to me.

[Berniesbiggestfan]

44. We'll see where we actually end up.

Those numbers aren't that bad. Much better than the 25% of Hillary voters that defected to John McCain in 08.

[TygrBright]

53. Because Biden is a mature, responsible, compassionate leader who understands...

...that being President is not some kind of zero-sum, winner-take-all prize for tooth-and-nail fighting, it is a powerful position of trust requiring integrity and awareness of the well-being of ALL the people, even those who dissed you, trash-talked you, and/or didn't vote for you.

Experience is helpful that way.

informatively,
Bright

[jimfields33]

54. Biden's had the easiest primary in history

The least he can do is work a little to get some young voters. Don’t you agree?

[mcar]

78. ...

[MyNameGoesHere]

82. He'll get the young voters on his own merit

He doesn't need to kiss the ass of the Independent Senator from Vermont.

[treestar]

86. that does not seem true; he was said to be dead in the water less than

3 weeks ago.

Of course they will try for young voters, in terms reflecting how little they turn out.

[Midwestern Democrat]

94. I'm a Biden supporter, but he had the great fortune to be running against a very weak field

In 1992, if Bill Clinton had stumbled like Biden did early on, the Democratic Party had far more viable alternatives to turn to as the non-Jerry Brown choice (Bob Kerrey, Tom Harkin, and Paul Tsongas among the declared candidates and plenty of big names who sat out the '92 race that they could have drafted in a pinch - Cuomo, Gephardt, Gore, Bradley, Biden, etc)

In 2004, if John Kerry had stumbled like Biden did, again there were more viable alternatives to turn to as the non-Howard Dean choice (John Edwards, Bob Graham, Wesley Clark, Gephardt - and they could have gone outside the list of declared candidates and drafted Gore, Biden, etc into the race)

In 2020, who was honestly really a threat to Biden as the non-Sanders choice? Buttigieg - the mayor of a college town? Klobuchar - a backbencher compared to the men I listed for 1992 and 2004? Bloomberg - an uncharismatic, George W. Bush endorsing turncoat who likely half the party couldn't stomach as the nominee? And there really weren't any big names who didn't run that looked like obvious choices to draft either - Hillary (was not ever going to happen); Kerry (well past 70 years old); Gore (past 70 years old)

[Cha]

87. Did you forget about Iowa, NH, and Nevada? and all the

crap thrown at him by a certain candidate.. and Sirota, bjg, and nina turmer?

The Voters in South Carolina weren't buying it, though.. and then Pete and Amy stepped up to endorse Biden and The Voters in the Super Tues States and STII States Showed who they wanted for President.

No it hasn't been easy but the Voters have spoken.. what are ya gonna do.

[PubliusEnigma]

129. Bernie just doesn't appeal to that many people. Can you handle it?

Don't blame Joe for Bernie's terrible candidacy.

[samir.g]

57. some of them are giving the Larouche-ites a run for their money

[randr]

58. Because they have good ideas and are a part of us?

[LonePirate]

60. Anyone who does not believe in party unity deserves to lose in November.

Biden should be reaching out to Sanders and incorporating elements of Sanders’ agenda or aligning their goals as much as possible. Biden needs to give Sanders’ supporters a reason to support him instead of simply being the Democrat facing off against a monster. This is no time for Biden to crush his rivals in some sort of twisted revenge fantasy game for the bloodthirsty moderates who hate Sanders.

[democrattotheend]

61. I assume he'd like their votes

Also, that tweet is misleading. If the exit poll was worded the same way it was in the earlier states, 19% said they would not commit to vote for the nominee regardless of who it is. Not that there is no nominee they would vote for. Some of those voters are winnable. Not everyone who won't commit right now to vote for Biden is absolutely committed to not voting for him.

[Politicub]

67. To show empathy. There's a large contingent of people who are hurting.

It is an insult to say they just want free stuff. Younger folks just want a fair chance at a good life.

Biden can address this. He doesn't have to say that all student loans will be forgiven, but he can reiterate how students loans can be paid back with public service. This will also help with providing good jobs. It's not a federal jobs guarantee, but it does show that he is listening and proposing realistic solutions.

It sounds so republican to me when someone says that people just want free stuff. No, what they want is a safety net and some relief.

[nolawarlock]

69. What concerns me is ...

… if certain voters aren't going to vote blue no matter because of children in cages, court appointments that are going to further isolate and terrorize marginalized people, and the continued rise of white nationalism, why do we think that our hugs and snuggles are going to draw them in?

[William769]

71. Good thing they are a dying breed. nt

[budkin]

74. Because he won't beat Trump without them

Period.

[avebury]

76. Talk about cutting off your

nose to spite your face.

[kentuck]

77. So he can defeat Donald Trump?

Is that good enough reason?

[Cha]

83. That doesn't make sense.. why vote in the primary

if they're not going to vote in the GE no matter who?

[Gothmog]

90. If sanders stays in much longer, he will lose leverage

sanders not dropping out may help Biden. sanders keeps on losing primaries by large margins nnly strenghten's Joe's position https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/11/no-surprise-bernie-sanders-is-still-all-about-himself-never-party/

Sanders’s remaining in the race should serve several salutary purposes for the party and the country. First, seeing him lose overwhelmingly week after week will dispel the notion that the Democratic Party has moved left, or that he is in a dominant position to negotiate with the overwhelming winner. It’s not clear why the Biden camp should “give” Sanders anything.

Second, it is good to keep Biden in fighting form, continuing to boost turnout and showing, as he did in Philadelphia, how presidential he is. Biden can pivot to the general election, essentially ignoring Sanders. (His planned speech on the coronavirus is the perfect opportunity to leave Sanders out of the discussion entirely.)....

Whoever is to replace Sanders as the standard-bearer for the left — hopefully someone as smart and wonky as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) — will need to learn how to win elections. (Hint: It is not by scaring voters or attaching oneself to the socialist label.) When in office, a new generation of leaders on the left will need to learn the art of deal-making rather than waste years, as Sanders has, rabble-rousing but accomplishing nothing. Unlike Sanders, Warren (or whoever else takes the reins) will not be burdened by a record of reflexively praising dictators nor be driven to attack fellow Democrats.

Sanders will end the race at some point, a diminished figure. In retrospect, his wins in 2016 will be seen more as an anti-Hillary Clinton vote than a pro-Sanders vote. How he behaves at Sunday’s debate will determine whether he leaves a bad taste in the mouths of Democrats.

[Gothmog]

91. How do you demand concessions when you're getting the brake beat off of you?

Link to tweet

[Vivienne235729]

92. We don't need to alienate them. But we don't need to pander to them, either.

They should be voting blue no matter who. Progressives, of all people, should be working extra hard to get rid of the orange anus.
And if they don't, then they aren't progressives to begin with. This is why I always thought Warren was a far better torch bearer of progressive ideals than Bernie. Bernie's "movement " was too messy.

[mcar]

96. Agreed

They should be voting blue no matter who. Progressives, of all people, should be working extra hard to get rid of the orange anus.
And if they don't, then they aren't progressives to begin with.

[Jokerman]

95. Another day, another ignore.

[Gothmog]

97. The sanders supporters who voted for trump in 2016 were racists non-democrats who hated Obama

The facts are that 25% of sanders supporters helped to elect trump by either voting for trump, voting for a third party candidate like Stein (who like sanders was supported by Russia) or stayed home

Link to tweet

This is based on the Cooperative Congressional Election survey https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people. (For perspective, a run-of-the-mill survey measuring Trump's job approval right now has a sample of 800 to 1,500.)

It appears that the sanders supporters who voted for trump where (I) not really Democrats, (ii) did not like President Obama and (iiii) were racists

Link to tweet

Party seems to have had something to do with it — Sanders-Trump voters were much less likely than Sanders-Clinton or Sanders-third party voters to have been Democrats. Likewise, approval of President Barack Obama appears to be related — Sanders-Trump voters approved of Obama much less than other Sanders primary voters.

Link to tweet

And then there is race. Nearly half of Sanders-Trump voters disagree with the idea that "white people have advantages."

Link to tweet

This tracks with broader observations about election 2016 — for example, as I wrote last week, in general, the larger a state's general-election Trump vote, the less likely its residents are to perceive a lot of discrimination in the world, according to data from the Public Religion Research Institute. And another postelection study — co-authored by Schaffner — found a "relatively strong indication that racism and sexism were more important in 2016 than they had been in previous elections."

These are voters that the Democratic Party should not be courting or counting on. There is nothing that Biden or the party is going to do to win over these voters. Appeasing these voters will only alienate the base of the party such as voters who are proud to be Democrats, who approve of President Obama and who are not racists.

I do not feel like appeasing these voters. The only thing that will make these voters happy is the party making sanders the nominee over the objections of 70% of the party

[Iggo]

98. Because Party Unity is a good thing.

He probably thinks it’s a goddam stupid fucking idea to keep fighting the primary after it’s over.

No. PUMA. Bullshit.

[la-trucker]

99. I'm sick and tired of the whiny asses who lack a perception of reality

They are privileged, entitled and solipsistic.

"If I don't get my M4A and free college, I am going to condemn the country to mismanagement, corruption, death, destruction, unwinding of democratic institutions and children in cages."

Fuck them - there are more sensible voters out there in the center-left and center-right.

[Happy Hoosier]

100. The way I read that is....

That 19% of Sanders voters in that Primary were operation chaos types, that wouldn’t have voted for Bernie in November. They were trying to pick who they saw as the weakest opponent.

[PoliticAverse]

101. Because not everyone lacks the ability to subtract 19 from 100. n/t

[Hoyt]

102. Thing is, and reason Biden is best of the two, he will reach out.

[Grokenstein]

103. Just a few short weeks ago, it was "vote blue no matter who"

But now it's flip-flopping over to, "pissing my vote away because I didn't get my way."

Right on schedule.

And while Biden's gearing up to hit the ground running and put the nation back on its feet, the most genuinely awful moscowbots are chirping away, "Oh but he's such a rapey doddering old on-his-deathbed man, not at all like Gentle Bern" with a side of "You can't prove he didn't do it, therefore: guilty!"

Here's a tip for any bernouts who might read this: If you cite Joe Rogan as your justification, you were never "progressive" to begin with.

[mcar]

112. I saw it so many times, here and elsewhere

Bernie supporters asking others, "will you commit to voting for Bernie if he is the nominee?"

Now, crickets.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

108. Why my first choice is Bernie...

I have been listening to Bernie Sanders for about 20 years now. Mostly on Thom Hartmann’s show when they did “Brunch with Bernie”. I thiink that gives me more knowledge about what he truly stands for than most DUers have.
He has very consistantly supported the same positions he supports now. To me, I prefer the idea of a politician being honest about what he/she believes and supports and then sticking to those positions.
Health insurance for all Americans that no company can take away, responsible bank regulations, fair pay, the right for workers to Unionize, workers safety, cleaning up the environment, equal rights for all, etc., etc., etc.
Comparing Bernie to Joe, I find Joe to be less supportive of these issues and others. So, my preference is Bernie.
Now then, I find Joe to be greatly experienced and to be a very good candidate. I believe many Bernie supporters, especially among the younger ones, to view Joe’s positions to be far less than desirable.
The many “Biden Bros” who are so nasty about Bernie don”t help Biden’s cause. We have to work together and be understanding of our differences to create the most supportive atmosphere to get the winfor the Democratic nominee.
This bit of explaining could turn into a much longer discussion but I am not going to even try to go further. Just encourage each other to wise up, accept we have differences in our preferences, and support the Democratic nominees in every election.

[The Magistrate]

110. It Does Not Matter What He Says, Sir

He is incapable of putting the things he speaks of into action. When pressed on details, he generally dissolves into slogans and soundbytes. Things he has talked of for decades, he has never managed to think out and set down coherent plans indicating how they will be accomplished. And that is without even considering whether he has the political skills to get any proposals through the Congress.

Nor does Sanders meet your own urgings that while we may differ in our preferences, we should all support the Democratic nominee in every election. Sanders gave at best nominal support to Mrs. Clinton in 2016, and few expect he will do any better this year. It is the man's record, and how closely his course this year matches his course in 2016, which produces the anger directed towards him, and the scorn often expressed for his devotees. His campaign staff is clotted with people who make quite clear they do not support the Democratic Party. He hired them, he is responsible for them. They reflect him, and he reflects them.

Still, if he did the right thing, if he stood down his campaign and conceded the contest, attacks on him would end. Until he does the right thing, they will continue.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[S.E. TN Liberal]

118. True enough...

... most Americans are still voting for politicians who don’t support Medicare for All, protecting pensions, strengthening Social Security, etc.

Bernie is way outnumbered by those who oppose making the lives of Americans more secure and safer. As long as there are a majority of republican’ts and Democrats who keep supporting the status quo Bernie has no chance of seeing his ideas come to fruition.
But, he will continue to speak out and educate whether he occupies a Senate seat or has the bully-pulpit of the Presidency.
Change is going to require politicians who are more willing to speak out and fight for that change. There are no republican’ts and far too few Progressive Democrats fighting the good fight.
Bernie is not to be faulted for the lack of support he gets. Democrats need to step up and demand their politicians work for a better America instead of simply settling for not being republicant’s.

[The Magistrate]

119. Quite The Contrary, Sir

A politician is definitely to be faulted for the lack of support he can muster. The business itself is the mustering of support for one's policies, and the coining of that support into votes that make those policies law.

[S.E. TN Liberal]

120. I disagree with your assumption.

A politician does not have to persuade everyone else. They are required to present the facts and it is up to the people to choose for themselves,

The orange turd is proof that wiser choices are all too often ignored by voters.

[The Magistrate]

121. Then He Or She Might As Well Be Up On A Soap-Box In Bughouse Square, Sir

Talk, as they say, is cheap.

Deeds come dear.

A political figure is measured by what he or she achieves.

[mcar]

113. I haven't seen any nasty "Biden Bros"

What is Bernie's plan to get his ideas into actual law? Why hasn't he done this already?

[The Magistrate]

114. The 'Mirror Game' Is An Ancient Wheeze, Ma'am

There is a reason 'tu quoque' is regarded as a fallacy rather than an argument.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[mcar]

115. Ancient Wheeze!

I love it! I know you are but what am I?

[Gothmog]

122. Bernie Sanders is out. And the insincere praise begins.

Link to tweet

Democrats, aided by the mainstream media, are now putting out two rather disingenuous storylines. First, “No one ever changed the party as much as Sanders.” Second, “Now begins the struggle to win over the Bernie Bros.” It is understandable that some Democrats — eager to avoid a schism similar to that which occurred in 2016 — are falling over themselves to assuage Sanders’s ego, but let’s not get carried away.

The “Bernie changed the party” line suggests that the party did not overwhelmingly choose a center-left successor to President Barack Obama. But it did! And it has rallied around someone who rejected Medicare-for-all, a wealth tax, left-wing isolationism and the entire “capitalism is evil” stance. Sanders got beaten badly week after week, never changing his message. That message simply did not register with more than about 30 percent of the party. Twitter does not represent the party. The party did not shift far left, as many in the media predicted (egged on by the loudest voices on the left). If anything, Biden’s wins show that the heart of the party rests with moderate African Americans — to whom all Americans are indebted for lifting a viable, electable nominee to oust President Trump. Sanders’s “movement” is far smaller than he would have liked us to believe.

As for winning over his followers, consider a recent poll showing that about 15 percent of Sanders’s supporters intend to vote for Trump if Biden is the nominee. It is hard to fathom the mindset of someone who would prefer an unfit narcissist who opposes virtually every principle and value Democrats hold dear to Obama’s vice president. It is of a piece with those who preferred Jill Stein in 2016. There is no reaching such people. Soliciting them is a waste of time.

The rest of the Sanders coalition should not need much courting. They’ve already signaled they will line up behind Biden and have expressed their determination to oust Trump. Other than not gratuitously attacking them, no great effort should be required to keep them in the fold. (Ironically, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) has been far more successful in advancing progressive policy ideas with Biden, including her plans on student debt forgiveness and bankruptcy.)

[The Magistrate]

123. It Feels So Strange, Sir

Waking up in a world in which Jennifer Ruben talks sound sense....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Gothmog]

132. For this thread

Link to tweet

[mcar]

125. Rubin is right: let's not get carried away

[Cha]

134. Yeah... their "story lines".. We know what happened..

we were there and been here all along.

[SKKY]

124. Did you see the movie "2016"? Remember how that ends??

[mcar]

127. Yes, it ended with a bunch of self-entitled so-called progressives*

voting for Trump or Stein and handing the election, among other reasons, to Trump.

Even though Bernie's team had a big seat at the table and a lot of influence in the platform.

It's why reaching out doesn't make sense. There is a portion of Sanders supporters who will never, ever, vote for Biden. They are Bernie or Bust. If the last 3.5 years hasn't convinced them otherwise, nothing will.

*Not all progressives.

[pamdb]

126. michigan voters

We have a lot of really stupid people here in michigan. those who voted for Jill Stein or
the big, orange asshole in the WH spring to mind. You can't cure stupid. Just have to
hope we can bring the state back in the blue without them.

[mcar]

128. Enough in MI, WI and PA

To, along with all the other issues, throw the election to Trump.

[H2O Man]

133. To win.

It's not the time for bitterness or self-righteousness. Biden knows that it is the candidate who is responsible for the campaign they run. He will try to unify the Democratic Party, rather than cling to grudges. That was how Obama-Biden won in 2008 and 2012, and beats the heck out of the alternative.

[Gothmog]

135. Why did Bernie Sanders drop out? The progressive majority he needed doesn't exist

There was no magical voter revolution

Link to tweet

Biden’s vision has now won out: He is the apparent Democratic nominee after Sanders suspended his campaign Wednesday following a mid-pandemic Wisconsin primary marred by vast polling site closures and a U.S. Supreme Court ruling that effectively invalidated many absentee ballots. (Sanders said Monday, given the risks to voters, his campaign would not engage in traditional efforts to get them to the polls.)….

And in particular, his decisive win over Sanders in the primary — without even campaigning in many states — further highlights the limitations of progressive politics in America, at least in winning a national campaign.

Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist, made a bad bet on the existence of a national progressive majority (as did Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., who ran as a progressive populist but dropped out after Super Tuesday). It turns out there's nothing even close.

In fact, it’s not even clear that a progressive majority exists within the Democratic Party. What does exist is a moderately center-left party with a vocal progressive element.

Sanders frequently said on the campaign trail that he was leading a “multigenerational, multiracial movement,” pledging to mobilize an army of new, young voters. But it turns out older and moderate voters are the ones that grew as a share of the Democratic primary electorate since 2016 — and they favored Biden by a wide margin.

Take the South Carolina primary on Feb. 29, which Biden won, or the 10 of 14 states he captured on Super Tuesday: In all, he appealed to the same coalitions that boosted Democrats so strongly in the 2018 midterm elections, turning out large numbers of suburban voters, while maintaining support from longstanding elements of the Democratic coalition, particularly African American voters.....

Still, with the 2020 Democratic primary process essentially over, it’s clear that the hard-core Democratic left was deluded in their assertions that they were the new Democratic majority. They are going to need a better grip on reality if they are to be successful at the national level moving forward

[mcar]

136. He always had that ceiling