Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Needs a Big Win, and He's Betting It All on Michigan
..."But Biden might have the edge on another issue crucial to Michigan voters.. As vice president, he played a key role in the auto bailout that helped save Michigans economy from the brink in 2009. Sanders voted against the Wall Street bailout that included auto bailout funds (though he did vote to fund a bailout for the industry in a separate billy). Clinton slammed him for that move in 2016, and its likely to resurface before Tuesday.
NAFTA is sort of a gut check-issue about how much you care about workers in the heartland, so I think that's a tough, tough, a tough one for the vice president, said Rep. Andy Levin (D-Mich.) who had backed Elizabeth Warren in the primary.
And Sen. Sanders voted against the auto bailout in the end. We wouldnt be here without that, so thats a problem for him, Levin said in a subsequent conversation."
The rigidity that led Sanders to vote to destroy autos means that he should not be our nominee...and the fact is there would be no autos if the GOP joined by Sanders had successfully stopped the TARP money containing both emergency funds and the fund used eventually as loan to the autos after a successful bankruptcy being released. I would add this loan was paid back with considerable interest and thousands of jobs were saved...no thanks to Sen.Sanders who in the end voted against the autos.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxe7pz/bernie-needs-a-big-win-and-hes-betting-it-all-on-michigan
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,234 posts)funding for Flint, Michigan during the water crisis.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,234 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Me.
(35,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)have had some spending that offended him somehow which is way more important then clean drinking water for kids...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RazBerryBeret
(3,075 posts)in the words of Barbara Boxer:
You take a beautiful bill like WRDA ... and then you put a pile of dirt on top of it, which I call the McCarthy rider, and then you stick a little Maraschino cherry on top, which is Flint and a couple of other good things, Boxer said on the floor. And then you say, OK, eat the dirt.
Senators from Washington state and Oregon also opposed the amendment, which in part would boost water deliveries to the San Joaquin Valley and Southern California. They said it would cost fishery jobs and ease environmental restrictions.
Our colleagues over here were frustrated that the other side would never live up to a Flint agreement, said Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Washington.
And the consequence is theyre cynical enough to put Flint in this bill as a way to get votes for something they know they should not be bringing to the floor of the United States Senate.
FYI, Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, and Elizabeth Warren also voted nay on the bill
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Sanders simply is too rigid for me in terms of ideology.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)would have become the Second Great Depression. If you let the banks collpase, the economy grinds to a halt.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)(not) fail!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eyeball_Kid
(7,429 posts)are small potatoes this time around. The much larger issue is the candidates' overall viability, which can be interpreted as the ability to squash Trump like a bug. A narrow lead in the general WILL encourage major GOP cheating. That's how they win. We want a landslide. And the question is, who can deliver a landslide?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)And I have no doubt Trump would destroy Sanders with this issue...so the answer is Biden. Biden will destroy Trump. If Sanders had been successful on the last vote which contained the temporary money and the money ultimately used as a loan for the industry...the autos would be gone and millions of jobs as well...so Sander is too rigid ideologically to be our nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,634 posts)like statistics dont mean anything if its personal.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jmowreader
(50,524 posts)The US is such a huge part of the world economy, if it would have collapsed as Sanders wanted the fallout would have taken out the rest of the world economy.
And no, the world wouldnt have become some sort of socialist paradise. It would have gone straight into thugocracy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)from saving the world if it becomes necessary .
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
greatauntoftriplets
(175,727 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,634 posts)in 2016. He didnt vote against the auto industry. Look it up. There were a number of other Democratic Senators who voted against TARP for the same reason Sanders did the lack of accountability with the funds and for the problem that required the bailout in the first place. But go ahead and take everything out of context and misrepresent it as usual. Sanders voted in a prior separate bill to financially rescue the auto industry earlier the same year I believe. He didnt vote against a fund to avoid a depression he voted against a bail-out of a willfully negligent industry without better accountability for the bail-out funds and the lack of accountability for the need for a tax payer bail-out in the first place.
You folks are replaying 2016 with this attack.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DownriverDem
(6,226 posts)are you undecided? You comment shows a disconnect to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)michigan vulnerability when viewed this way.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)and has a very good record after that...and Sanders was willing to allow the autos to go under...his final vote would have been it for this industry had the GOP and Sanders (also any other Democrat who voted against releasing the funds) gotten their way.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,634 posts)the meaningful metric? And regrets are a solvent? Really?
Sounds like fealty to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Sanders had his way in the last vote, the autos would be gone...and he voted with the Republicans.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,634 posts)is different.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)economically...Barack Obama and give us our only healthcare...ever to have passed Congress. Bernie talked about it for years and years...President Obama got it done. He saved millions of good paying jobs in the Mid West and the South too. Joe fought to save to save the autos when some like Sanders said let them go. Fact is TARP was unpopular...so I particularly respect those who voted for it...and have serious qualms about those who didn't
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NoMoreRepugs
(9,361 posts)to predict than allowing the auto industry to collapse immediately - I dont think one need be a NASA level thinker to comprehend that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,634 posts)to many. NAFTA was controversial for exactly that reason its long term affects on American manufacturing industry/workforce/economy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 8, 2020, 10:42 AM - Edit history (1)
would Chrysler and ultimately Ford because of parts issues...Sanders was willing to allow this to happen rather than to vote to release the Tarp funds...and let's just say letting banks collapse isn't smart either...we would have had a depression...and the autos would be gone forever...when Joe gets down in Michigan, and ( I will see him tomorrow in Ohio) he will set the record straight and make Sanders take responsibility for his vote which if he and the Republicans who also supported it were successful would have destroyed the autos.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Among the things we can all agree on about Sanders is that he is not a "betting it all" type. He may desperately need a big win in MI, and I believe he won't get it, but Energizer Bernie will just churn on to the bitter end.
Sanders is has serious big money and won't be running out. He also has an enormously sophisticated database operation that even the Republicans have to respect. BUT, above all, he has the 300 delegates that is really all he needs to get his name in nomination and make trouble at the convention.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)I hope he will bow out, but you are right he probably will be his usual divisive self.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the article. MI's coming up fast, and I haven't thought about it.
Did read that Fox/the Murdochs are going to try to give Sanders a boost by hosting another town hall for him. In Detroit, Monday night.
Bless all their scheming little hearts. At least MI seems to have a closed primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to Republican voters during the Democratic primaries that he might draw any of Trump's populists in the GE.
I have to amend my notion that MI's primary is closed. You just have to ask for either a Democratic or Republican ballot and vote that ballot; and that choice is just for the one primary, doesn't affect the GE.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)is hoping to get.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,226 posts)here in Michigan. The Big 3 have come out and announced big investments here recentlhy. Bernie is running trade issue ads big time and they are not needed. Health care is more important. Many folks in Michigan have employer health care. They do not want Bernie to take it away for his M4A plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)up, we have healthcare from auto's but not union...we don't use it...us hubs current job which is better...not to know we have something...if the worst happens...I believe in universal healthcare...just not forcing people on M4A.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turin_C3PO
(13,893 posts)can go away fast if a bad situation arises. Thats why there needs to be an affordable option out there thats just as good as those gold union plans. A very strong public option or Medicare-buy in should be available thats cheap and provides excellent benefits.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)with Medicare after dealing with my sis in law's bad fall...it is expensive and doesn't cover but 80%. She has a wrap but that only covers what Medicare covers...it doesn't expand coverage...and if you go with the advantage plan...you face pre-existing conditions issues if you want to go back to regular Medicare. My sis in law will likely spend the rest of her live in a nursing home because of the really shitty limited rehab that she received while on Medicare.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turin_C3PO
(13,893 posts)i think the Democrats should increase Medicare benefits while lowering its costs and then make it available to all who want to buy in.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)when we retire...and there are deductibles and copays...and as far as I know Medicare is the only program where pre-existing still applies if you attempt to go back to regular medicare from an advantage plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Peacetrain
(22,872 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)off to canvas will check back when I get home...also voting for Joe today...Go Joe (in Ohio).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Peacetrain
(22,872 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Out of 80 people who answered their door, only two were undecided and one was a Republican (who knows how he ended up on our list)...there is a great deal of good will for Joe. He is coming on Tuesday and I am going to see him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RDavisJ1
(52 posts)There were a lot of people in the rust belt that did not like Hillary. They voted for her, with their nose pinched, but they supported Sanders in the primary. Without Hillary, Sanders is running into issues. He's underperforming 2016 numbers and the kids are not showing up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SiliconValley_Dem
(1,656 posts)Of all races. I really thin this coming Tuesday could put it out of reach for Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)really runs again. And the sooner we end this the better.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BidenBacker
(1,089 posts)To be fair to Bernie, he was not in favor of letting the US auto industry fail thus causing millions of auto workers and suppliers to lose their jobs. He voted against TARP because it also bailed out the crooks on Wall Street at the same time.
When Sanders hits Biden over TARP Joe needs to hit him right back. Letting our huge financial institutions go down the tubes woulda caused the Second Great Republican Depression and it was dangerously irresponsible for Sanders to have voted to allow this to happen...no better than if McCain or Romney had let the American auto industry go belly up because "hey, that's just capitalism at work". Practically nobody relished having to do this but when somebody breaks into your home and holds a knife to your kid's throat demanding ransom you pay it right then and there and then after he leaves you install security measures to prevent that from happening again.
I would much rather call this aspect of TARP a draw and instead hear what both candidates plan to do about installing security systems on Wall Street so that they can't come back during the inevitable next financial crisis and hold our economy hostage once again. I'm a big believer in the "if you're too big to fail then you're too big to exist" philosophy and to my knowledge there have been no real meaningful safeguards implemented since 2008-2009 that would preclude this from occurring again.
Which from the looks of the market recently will happen sooner than either man can take office.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)his quest to end TARP, he was willing to allow the autos to fail...doesn't matter what he wanted, and it is fair to say in the end he voted with the Republicans to kill the autos and the banks...and that bodes ill for our economy if he is the president which thankfully won't happen...Sanders was willing to let the autos die...that is the bottom line.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,609 posts)Yet another critical wrong vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)and most likely Ford would be gone...and all the good paying jobs that exist because of these companies.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,609 posts)If they do Sanders is toast in MI.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LiberalFighter
(50,758 posts)He got a 4 delegate advantage in 2016.
At best, Sanders might net about 12. More likely Biden will have a net in delegates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)But Florida will be the end.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandySF
(58,437 posts)unless he also gets huge margins in Missouri and Washington (possible bu not likely).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)in my view. The other way is Biden wins big even in places Sanders was thought to do well in as he has the momentum from Super Tuesday...Sanders didn't even get good news out of California...it was a close race..nothing to brag about. That is what I think happens which means the primary will be essentially over on Tuesday.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Its been disappointing watching the turnout vote numbers in this primary for D party.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)voting...for Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)guaranteed early voter here
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
comradebillyboy
(10,128 posts)the looming disaster in Florida. That one might sink his campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)will be Florida...what Biden is up by 50 points?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Julian English
(434 posts)And from what I can see Biden is going to win and possibly win big.
People just don't trust BS.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
showblue22
(1,026 posts)After seeing how Trump is doing with China on trade, people I know and have spoke to.. no longer blame NAFTA and talk more about free trade.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Looking forward to Tuesday.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden