Should the loser of the March 10th Michigan Primary drop out? Bluewater calls you out!

[bluewater]

Last edited Wed Mar 4, 2020, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Everyone thinks the Michigan Primary will be an important bellwether for those industrial Midwest states that put Trump over the top in 2016.

But are people here willing to say that the loser of the March 10th Michigan Primary should drop out?

Oh, I'm sure, AFTER the voting many people will be calling for the loser to do just that. But how many people are willing to do that before hand?

Well, I am. I will be that Profile in Courage type of person.

Once the winner of the March 10th Michigan Primary is announced, I will be changing my preferred candidate selection to the winner and calling for any and all losing candidates to drop out of the race.

Now, I realize that I am a rare individual with immense insight and intestinal fortitude, but I call on ALL Duers to take the pledge I just made. Call for the loser(s) of the March 10th Michigan Primary to drop out.

Do it. Do it for the good of the Democratic Party.

( Yes, that's all NEUROMARKETING meant to influence your subconscious... lol the hyperbole, the taunts, the dares, the call to put it all on the line..)

Whose with me?

Show of hands, please!

I'll bookmark this thread for future reference.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. No -

I think those of us in NJ should be able to have a say - our primary is in June.

[bluewater]

48. Fair enough.

Thanks for participating.

[2naSalit]

64. Not that anyone gives

a shit about flyover Montana unless they are complaining about how we have two Senators or looking for a place to go on vacation, but I'd like to have a choice too.

[bluewater]

65. No problem, thanks for participating.

You are down as a definite "No".

[2naSalit]

66. I just think it's a decision the candidates should make on their own.

The only ones who haven't dropped will when they are ready to call it. Two weeks ago people were calling for Biden to drop out.



Put me down for whatever. Doesn't seem like a valuable use of time but it's your list so go for it.

[bluewater]

68. Thanks again for participating.

It's a all in fun with a few serious undercurrents.

But I did take the pledge! I am serious about supporting whomever wins the Michigan Primary.

[JustAnotherGen]

70. i give a shit about Montana

Bullock, Tester - jiminy h Christmas - Montana just might go blue this election . . . if we give it a chance.

[2naSalit]

71. Exactly. It's why I get on my soapbox

about once a week to let people know that we are here, like it or not there are two Senate seats in the state and one of them can be flipped to blue with a little interest from those who bitch about how we have two Senators.

Grrr.

[JustAnotherGen]

75. I'm a very red spot of New Jersey - well purple now

We flipped the 7th district after decades with Malinowski. Our county seat (I'm a democratic committee member here) is now blue (Mayor, Majority Council).

I suspect that our rural 'horse country' county has more in common with Montanan's than we do Queens.

[2naSalit]

77. Indeed.

There's a tension between the natural resource extraction industries which includes ranching and the conservationists and tourists. And a lot of it involves federally administered lands, Indian Reservations and private property which includes acreage owned by large corporations. It's a complex situation and it's all teetering on ecosystem collapse. Oh and we are also the headwaters for about 1/2 to 2/3 of the country's fresh water.

It is something people should think about when considering public lands use and longevity as stable ecosystems.

People come from eastern cities and have no idea what they are looking at when they get here. Some don't even know the difference between elk, deer and moose. They will often mistake one for the other. That is an example of what is heard many times a day when the tourists show up. I shows the disconnect when it comes to the government's role in all of this and the imperative about whom we elect.

[guillaumeb]

2. Immense insight, coupled with abundant humility.

We might be separated twins.

[bluewater]

4. Very possibly.

You taking the pledge or not though?

[guillaumeb]

8. In Illinois, we vote March 17.

Assuming that Warren is still in the race, she has my vote.

[bluewater]

23. I think our candidate will proably be dropping out before then. Sadly.

So, in any case, I will put you down as a "no".

Thanks for participating.

[AGeddy]

3. Why on earth would 1 of 50 states make up your mind?

Joe is going to win Michigan comfortably... but even if he doesn't, why would one state matter?

PA, OH, WI are just as important.

[bluewater]

5. So I am putting you down as a "No".

Fine.

Just don't call for the loser of the March 10th Michigan Primary to drop out then and you will be fine in my book.

[AGeddy]

7. I'm calling for Bernie to drop out *NOW*. Michigan has no bearing one way or the other.

[bluewater]

14. Deflection noted.

Hey, I understand it's asking a lot for people to say right NOW whether the loser of the Michigan Primary should drop out.

Something tells me though that AFTER Michigan a lot more people will be doing exactly that.

People are funny like that, so few have the courage of their convictions.

[AGeddy]

19. Your post makes no sense.

I am calling for Bernie to drop out right now, after last night's disastrous primaries for him.


Since I'm calling for him to drop out now, I will ALSO be calling for him to drop out after every state to come - including Michigan. I will continue calling for him to drop out until he actually does so.


I have the courage of my convictions: Bernie, DROP OUT NOW.

Can't be any clearer than that.

[bluewater]

20. But you won't say whether Joe should drop out if he loses Michigan.

THAT is what you are deflecting away from answering.

[AGeddy]

22. No, why would I call for the delegate leader to drop out?

There will never be a time between now and the convention when Joe Biden falls behind in the delegate race.


Win or lose Michigan doesn't matter - he will be the delegate leader before March 10 and he will be the delegate leader after March 10.



What kind of silly question is it to call for the person leading in votes and delegates to drop out? The premise of your thread makes no sense.

[bluewater]

25. Thanks for answering, you are a definite "no" then.

"Win or lose Michigan doesn't matter"

Oh, but I think it will matter. A lot.


Thanks for participating.

[AGeddy]

28. There are 6 states that night. Michigan is one of them.

Why does your question not pertain to Mississippi? or Missouri? or Washington?


Whatever Biden's delegate lead going into March 10 is... it will be larger on March 11.



I'll answer your nonsensical question this way: Whichever candidate is behind in delegates after March 10, I'll call for them to drop out.

[bluewater]

42. As stated previously, people have stated REPEATEDLY how important those Midwest states are in the GE

Posters here on DU have gone on at length how important those industrial mid-west states Trump won in 2016 are in the 2020 General election.

How well a candidate does in red states like Missouri and Mississippi that we have no chance of winning in the General Election should carry less weight than how well candidates do in those Mid-West "blue wall" states so vital to beat Trump.

So, I am putting you down as a "no" then.

Thanks for participating.

[AGeddy]

43. Midwestern stateS (plural). Michigan is only one of them.

If a candidate losing Michigan, but wins Ohio, PA, Wisconsin, and Minnesota... they are stronger in "midwestern states".

Picking ONE midwestern state, at the exclusion of the other midwestern states, makes no sense.

[bluewater]

46. yep. got it. You are already put down as a "No" vote.

Thanks for participating.

[AGeddy]

47. No. I am a "Yes if Bernie, no if Joe" vote.

The overall race is all that matters.

[bluewater]

49. Got it. Good for the Goose BUT not the Gander. There's a special catagory for those votes.

Noted.

Thanks for participating.

[AGeddy]

50. The "Goose-Gander" analogy only works if both are in an equal position going in

Otherwise your question is in bad faith.

But you knew your question was in bad faith when you asked it.

[bluewater]

51. Ad Hominem attack noted.

AGeddy: But you knew your question was in bad faith when you asked it.

The Ad hominem attack is the last resort of a losing argument.

Enjoy your day.

[AGeddy]

52. When you make bad faith arguments, it isn't an ad hominem attack to point it out

[bluewater]

53. .

[HeartlandProgressive]

54. .

[still_one]

57. +++ typical flamebaiting that is common among some

[bluewater]

63. No flamebaiting at all. I took the pledge and I meant it.

I will call for the loser of the March 10th Michigan Primary to drop out for the good of the party AND I will change my candidate preference to the winner.

And I will wholeheartedly support that candidate all the way thru the 2020 General election if they become the nominee.

Like I said, I have the Courage of my Convictions.

[relayerbob]

6. No

Let the process continue, so we can really see who is the choice of the electorate. I think that answer will be clear after Michigan, though.

While I just switched from Liz, I think she should drop out now. She has no path to the convention, and should join with her fellow Democrats. 20% of something is better than 100% of nothing

[bluewater]

10. Honestly, I am surprised at the responses from Biden supporters so far, they have all said "No".

That's fine.

As long as people don't call for the loser to drop out after the Michigan Primary.

Thanks for participating.

[Demsrule86]

74. If Sanders loses he should drop out as he has no path forward.

[Moderateguy]

9. I don't think anyone is dropping out now..

Maybe Warren since she is supposedly "reassessing" her campaign. Sanders and Biden has both already said they are going to take this to the convention

[bluewater]

11. Its about posters here on DU, not the candidates.

how many people here on DU will call for the loser of the March 10th Michigan Primary to drop out of the race right now?

Will you be taking the pledge? Yes or No?

[Moderateguy]

13. I did not want any of them to drop out...

I was glad Pete and Amy did when they did but the candidates have poured their hearts and souls into their campaigns. I don't think I am in a position to tell any of them when to drop out

[bluewater]

21. Fair enough. You are a definite "no" then.

[Firebrand Gary]

12. I'm not so sure.

Here's the thing, I think Joe needs to discipline himself and demonstrate it to the public. He's now the front runner, let's see how he handles that. I want to see exceptionally executed interviews and public appearances.

I suspect that if Joe sweeps the March 10 states, that Bernie will likely reevaluate his campaign. But until then, or even after; the Sander's and the Biden camps need to co-pilot the landing. There's not a switch that can be flipped to win the other camp over. That's going to take time, it's going to take work. a lot of it. We need each other.

[bluewater]

16. So I am putting you down as a "no" for now then.

Thanks for participating.

[padah513]

15. "Now, I realize that I am a rare individual with immense insight and intestinal fortitude..."

You used Biden for a punching bag since your first day here! Sorry but I'll believe it when I see it and not one nanosecond before.

[bluewater]

18. So are you willing to take the Pledge I just did? Ad Hominem attacks are just delefections.

Will you call for the losers of the march 10th Michigan Primary to drop out.

Yes or No?

[NYMinute]

17. Biden doesn't need to win Michigan

Whatever delegates he is short in Michigan will be made up by the bushels in Mississippi.

However, if Bernie loses Michigan, he should drop out. He will have no path beyond it.

[MineralMan]

24. You know, we're about down to just two primary candidates, now.

Neither will be dropping out. And why should they? When there are only two, one will be the winner.

That's really, really simple, isn't it. And that's where we'll be, once Elizabeth Warren withdraws, which should be today or tomorrow.

Then there will be two.

[bluewater]

27. A candidate than can't win the industrial Mid-West should drop out.

Last edited Wed Mar 4, 2020, 05:32 PM - Edit history (1)

And clear the way for the candidate that can to defeat Trump in the General election.

It's THAT simple.

So I will put you down as yet another Biden Supporter voting "NO, the loser of the March 10th Michigan Primary should not drop out."

Thanks for participating.

[SidDithers]

26. If Bernie loses, yes...

because he’s already behind, and falling further behind is basically the end of his campaign.

If Biden loses, he shouldn’t, because he’s ahead and will likely move further ahead with delegate gains in the other Mar 10 and Mar 17 primaries.

Sid

[bluewater]

31. BZZZT. Sorry but you can't play this both ways.

I will put you down as yet another "no" vote then since you said "no" for Biden.

Pinning people to a position BEFORE the March 10th Michigan Primary is the purpose of this thread.

People equivocating or having one set of rules for Sanders and another for Biden are exactly the things I had hoped to put on record.

Thanks for participating.

[LanternWaste]

32. Your pretense is totally adorable.

You sir, are a Stable Genius.

Thanks for participating.

[bluewater]

36. Ad hominem attacks... the white flag of surrender in a discussion.

[SidDithers]

37. Alright. Play your game...

The rest of us will live in the real world.



Sid

[bluewater]

45. Hey, it's in fun and yet serious.

I respect peoples opinions.

I'll put you down as a "no" vote then, all things considered.

Thanks for participating.

[AGeddy]

38. If the two candidates were tied, your question might make a LITTLE bit of sense...

...otherwise the standard is BY DEFINITION different for the two candidates.

If the leader loses a single state, no they shouldn't drop out.

If the trailer loses the state, yes - perhaps they should drop out - because their ability to win overall just got smaller.


Your question operates from the premise that the two candidates are in an equal position and so answerers MUST play it "both ways". That's faulty logic.


Your question is the equivalent of this analogy:

Team A is ahead by a score of 6-2 after the 4th inning against Team B. Your question is basically "whoever loses the 5th inning should drop out!"

That's faulty logic. Your question is nonsensical. OF COURSE there are "different rules" for the leader than for the trailer. There's supposed to be.

[LanternWaste]

29. Patting oneself on the back from a correct guess or two is some righteous beef, man.

I'm putting you down for a strained, but very self-validating shoulder.

I'm doing that for the good of the Democratic party, for God, and for my little sister.

I'll recognize your self-righteous and borderline narcissism (and your dramatic lack of any evidence at all provided for so many vague and diaphanous allegations) for future reference.





(space provided free of charge below to continue pretense you are righteous, courageous and heroic... because if not you, who else will?)

[bluewater]

33. So all you have is ad hominem attacks? lol Take the pledge!

People responding have had the Courage of their Convictions.

You seem to have gone in for ad hominem attacks.

Lanternwaste:

Patting oneself on the back from a correct guess or two is some righteous beef, man.

I'm putting you down for a strained, but very self-validating shoulder.

I'm doing that for the good of the Democratic party, for God, and for my little sister.

I'll recognize your self-righteous and borderline narcissism (and your dramatic lack of any evidence at all provided for so many vague and diaphanous allegations) for future reference.

(space provided free of charge below to continue pretense you are righteous, courageous and heroic... because if not you, who else will?)

But hey, if all you have is ad hominem attacks, well, what can I say?



C'mon, take the pledge! Should the loser of the March 10th Michigan Primary drop out, for the good of the party, YES or NO?

[apcalc]

30. I think Pennsylvania is a bellweather. In any case no one should drop on the basis one state.

[bluewater]

34. Fair enough.

Thanks for participating.

[onetexan]

35. So here's the remaining primaries schedule - 28 states left, 6 on March 10th:

Idaho March 10 primary
Michigan March 10 primary
Mississippi March 10 primary
Missouri March 10 primary
N. Dakota March 10 (D) party-run primary, (R) caucus Jan-March
Washington March 10 primary
Florida March 17 primary
Illinois March 17 primary
Ohio March 17 primary
Arizona March 17 primary (D), none (R)
Georgia March 24 primary
Wyoming April 4 (D) caucus, (R) caucus Feb-March
Alaska April 4 (D) party-run primary, none (R)
Hawaii April 4 (D) party-run primary, none (R)
Louisiana April 4 primary
Wisconsin April 7 primary
Connecticut April 28 primary
Delaware April 28 primary
Maryland April 28 primary
New York April 28 primary
Pennsylvania April 28 primary
Rhode Island April 28 primary
Kentucky 19-May
District of Columbia June 2 primary
Montana June 2 primary
New Jersey June 2 primary
New Mexico June 2 primary
South Dakota June 2 primary

Biden currently has 566 delegates; BS has 501, per the Associated Press:
https://www.google.com/search?q=biden+delegate+count&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS877US877&oq=biden&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l2j69i57j0j69i60l3j69i65.1307j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

The rule is whomever reaches 1991 delegates first wins the nomination. I heard earlier on MSNBC that Sanders agreed to this rule, so let it work itself out.

[bluewater]

39. No problem. You are a straight forward "No" vote.

Thanks for participating.

[AGeddy]

40. If the Warriors are ahead 3-games-to-1 in the NBA finals.. should they quit if they lose game 5?

That's the equivalent of the question asked in this thread.


Nonsensical.

[bluewater]

44. Individual votes are not the issue. Who wins and loses the Michigan Primary was.

And whether the loser should drop out.

So, I take it you are actually a "No" vote then?

You don't think the losers of the Michigan Primary should drop out?

Correct me if I am wrong on that.

Thanks for participating.

[tirebiter]

55. Membership in the party has it's priveleges

Currently Joe Biden is the leader of the party.

[bluewater]

56. So, that's a "No" vote?

Noted.

Thanks for Participating.

[tirebiter]

59. I was just explaining the real world rules

Today I’m just enjoying the results of a positive campaign. The only real loser was and will be Donald Trump. Last night was an intra not inter party. Sanders is still sitting at second place and hasn’t scored over the 30 percentile range. Trump and Giuliani are trying to fix that. Patience.

[bluewater]

61. Okie Dokie.

[ismnotwasm]

58. .

[democrattotheend]

60. No thanks

I live in a state that votes in late April and I believe I am as entitled to a say as those in Michigan or any other state. Why should one state get to decide?

[bluewater]

62. Fair enough.

Thanks for participating.

[potone]

67. Absolutely not.

Those of us who live in states that have later primaries should have a choice of candidate. It is arrogant to deny us that. We need to rethink the whole scheduling of primaries, in my view, so that they are not so spread out, but until such a time as we do, everyone should have the same right to exercise their choice. If candidates choose to drop out at any time that is their choice, but they should not be pressured to do so before the primary season has ended.

[bluewater]

69. Thanks for participating.

[MineralMan]

72. No. That would be silly.

[Demsrule86]

73. No, it is a must win for Sanders (MI) but not for Biden...although he is ahead and I think he wins.

Sanders should drop out unless he wants to bern it down as he will have no way of beating Biden mathematically.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

76. Winning 10 states on Tuesday, way ahead in Florida.....

Joe Biden looks to take 3 to 4 more states on the 10th. Michigan will go to Biden's column due to he and Obama saving the Auto industry there.

I could be wrong, but Biden has the wind behind his back. Voters in states coming up have seen already what has taken place.

[LostOne4Ever]

78. I refuse.

I think it is better for both the party and the nation if Bernie (and anyone else with a deeply held cause) to stick with it to the bitter end.

The debate and opposition of ideas will make the parties positions clearer, the final candidate stronger and more vetted, and allow the losing side to feel like it got to have its say allowing us to unite more easily afterwards.

Once the convention happens and there is an official nominee I’ll switch my support to them and leave the primary behind. But until then it is those candidates’ right to be heard.

This race isn’t over till the convention.

[Sunsky]

79. No

Unless they were running for the president of Michigan.

[KPN]

80. No. And I'm a Sanders supporter now that Warren is out. However, if he loses MI by a lot,

I would be okay with him dropping out at that point against my wishes. Now, if one candidate wins both MI and WA by significant margins, I would say yes. But overall, I favor having a choice when it's my turn to vote, which unfortunately isn't until very late -- May 19.

Personally, I think our primary season is way too long and would serve us and democracy far better by being condensed into a 1-2 month period tops.

[HarlanPepper]

81. I can't wait to see how the goalposts will be moved if Biden wins MI

It's like a TV cliffhanger!

[BidenBacker]

86. Anarchists don't watch football

It's an establishment sport with teams owned by billionaires and played by millionaires.

[bluewater]

87. Help me out, Do you know the name of the Clinton's cat?

When Bill was President?

I recall it was something to do with feet?

[iwannaknow]

82. the next person to drop out should do so only if there is no path forward for them

this year has been full of events for which there is no precedent, so we would be wise to throw conventional wisdom out the door.

[Blue_true]

83. I want the race to continue until there is an undeniable signal.

Michigan doesn't provide that signal, all it does is either puts Sanders farther behind, or give him a little new hope.

If March 17 and March 24 reenforce what we are seeing today, then Sanders should end his campaign after the March 24 results. If Sanders is fighting back with a chance of taking the nomination, then the race should continue.

[NCProgressive]

84. Illeism notwithstanding there is a flaw in the logic

Biden doesn't need to win Michigan at all. He has a lot of pro-Biden states stacked up which are delegate rich and Sanders has no chance of winning any of those - like Illinois, Mississippi, Missouri, Florida and Georgia.

Sanders HAS to win Michigan and by a huge margin to make a small dent in Biden's insurmountable lead.

So, Biden can keep going if he loses Michigan but Sanders should drop out if he loses Michigan - there is no hope for him after that.

[BidenBacker]

85. I say nyet for the loser dropping out

Having said that here's a Michigan spoiler alert...

Biden - 63%
Sanders - 37%

[pampango]

88. No. However after the Arizona debate and March 17 primaries, I will be a Yes.

And to be fair if either does well today and poorly on the 17th or vice versa, he should not be expected to pull out. If either does well or poorly on both, then he should withdraw.

[HarlanPepper]

89. Well?

[squirecam]

90. Lol

Nt

[NurseJackie]

91. ...