Re: Sanders Castro and Cuba

[HopeAgain]

I'm just going to drop this little pearl here:

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[LizBeth]

1. The Democrats in Florida are having to clean up a mess. Maybe it is because of Sanders

earlier tapes before he was running for President that is causing so much more of a problem for the Democratic vote in Florida. This is Sanders history. Obama has a different history.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Yeah, that was a winner.

Not.

[Moderateguy]

3. Completely misleading

Obama said this in person to Castro when he visited Cuba as PRESIDENT. This was diplomacy. Also, he had no other elections to fight at that point

[HarlanPepper]

5. Yes

There is a lot of nuance here. I'm not surprised its lost on some people.

[Moderateguy]

7. You can't make people see what they don't want to see

[David__77]

6. Was Obama lying or Sanders being too honest?

I think neither- they both said what chose to say.

[uponit7771]

4. Bullshit false equivalency, Obama: Look around Cuba and see economy isn't work / Sanders Castro

... everything wasn't bad.

Not the point Obama was making about .. CASTRO .. Obama focused on Cuba the country and the examples of some things that were correct and not sounds like he was defending the dictators actions without the premise of baby and bath water behind it.

At best Sanders was sloppy

[Gothmog]

8. Florida Democratic Party disavows Sanders.

Link to tweet

[HopeAgain]

11. I'm still looking for where it says they "disavow Sanders." nt

[OliverQ]

9. But that's different because

posters here hate Bernie and they like Obama, so it's ok if Obama said it!

[IluvPitties]

10. Obama was trying to improve US-Cuba relationships.

Bernie seems to be comfortable with far-left dictatorships...

[Gothmog]

12. Biden campaign response to sanders praising Fidel Castro

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

13. No, Bernie Sanders' Discussion of Cuba's Castro is Nothing Like Obama's

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Eric Levitz in New York Magazine on Monday makes the case that Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview admiring some aspects of Fidel Castro’s regime in Cuba was roughly the same as Barack Obama’s 2016 discussion of Castro. This is in large part just an amplification of ideas flying around Twitter this week, as in the tweet pictured above. A quick look at Sanders’ and Obama’s statements shows why this analysis is entirely incorrect.

In 2016, Obama was addressing hundreds of young business and social entrepreneurs from across Latin America in Buenos Aires, Argentina. If you read the transcript of his talk, you see immediately that Obama, in his signature style, was reinforcing the message of pragmatism and evidence-based decision making — as he puts it “be[ing] practical and just choos[ing] from what works.” He was in fact arguing against ideology, at a time when he must have been watching the destabilizing effects the surge in ideological politics was causing not just in the United States but in other countries long considered staid and practical.

In discussing Cuba, Obama relayed direct conversations he had with the Castros, insight into the diplomacy of highlighting policy areas where there might be more agreement in order to create common ground with space to push for change in other areas. I doubt many would think it rational to approach a nascent foreign relationship with a guns blazing, take no prisoners attitude, especially when any agreement depended on the other country’s support. Obama was relaying one relatively high stakes conversation with foreign leaders to another unaligned audience in a foreign venue. I expect it does not take an expert in international relations to see the U.S. interest in pitching this information a certain way for both of these audiences.

In contrast, Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview was not conducted for foreign consumption or to support U.S. national interests, and it did not come at a time of opening up in the U.S.-Cuba relationship. Instead, it was given for a local public access TV show. It was effectively a vanity project giving Sanders a platform to expound his views of politics and the world. Because of this, the messaging here is all Sanders. Further contrasting Obama, it was rooted in ideology, with Sanders opening, “As a socialist, the word socialism doesn’t frighten me,” before launching into his discussion of self-described socialist regimes. While you could argue the interview might not be a perfect snapshot of today’s presidential candidate’s innermost thoughts, it was a clear statement of what Sanders believed at the time and unfiltered by the degree of drafting and review Obama’s messaging on this topic would have undergone....

From this brief look, we can see that Obama’s talk involved a little flattery, a little spin, and a good deal of appealing to an audience that he saw as future leaders. In contrast, Sanders’ words were simply praise without an intentional objective towards a defined audience. Conflating these two discussions is flimsy, misleading, and indicative of the pro-regime propaganda captured in Sanders’ own sentiment.

[Gothmog]

14. you can always count on @JoeBiden to defend @BarackObama 's record and legacy.

Link to tweet