Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWoman called "lying dog faced pony soldier" felt insulted...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-jokingly-calls-voter-who-asked-about-iowa-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier/2020/02/09/9e8da478-4b75-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html
In a statement released a few hours later, Moore wrote, I asked Joe Biden a fair question. His immediate response was to question whether I had ever attended a caucus. In my nervousness in the presence of the former Vice President, I nodded yes.
Moore has not been to a caucus, she said. But she also accused Biden of insulting her, writing in reality, it is totally irrelevant whether Ive been to a caucus or not. Joe Biden has been performing incredibly poorly in this race. His inability to answer a simple question from a nobody college student like me only exacerbates that reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
fallout87
(819 posts)by those intent on protecting a campaign in distress....
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wisteria
(19,581 posts)She was a plant. She was there, not with an open mind, but representing a candidate she does support.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)insulting her? You think that's a valid tactic for Biden to use when he's already doing poorly there?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Here is her quote...
Joe Biden has been performing incredibly poorly in this race. His inability to answer a simple question from a nobody college student like me only exacerbates that reality.
This exactly what I said it would be. This was a supporter of another candidate trying to make Biden look bad. Biden was dumb for using an old insulting expression. But that doesnt mean she wasnt a plant, lied about it, and she was trying to make him look bad.
And she succeeded.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Thats not an undecided voter talking.
You could clearly figure out by watching the interaction what she was up to. Her quote following it makes it even more obvious.
If you want to trash Biden for the language used, thats fair. I have agreed it was bad. Biden was dumb because he knew what it was and still responded poorly.
But this woman was not an undecided voter. She was a plant, who asked a gotcha question. And then lied about it.
How about we agree that using plants is wrong. There are ACTUAL undecided voters who want to discuss issues. So lets have them speak. Not play this BS from plants.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)As for me, I haven't commented at all on what he said, because I don't have to. My decision not to support Biden (or move to him if Pete fails) came out of my visit to New Hampshire this weekend. He's just not the strong and compelling person he was when I met him as VP in a 30 minute extemporaneous conversation about every subject under the sun. Delivering a campaign speech by teleprompter to a crowd of maybe 200 people (Pete had 1800 yesterday, Amy had 1100) isn't the sign of a robust campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Then you might be inexperienced in such matters.
Some people, like politicians, have people reading skills. Many people do not. Biden read her correctly. His mistake was reacting poorly in his choice of language.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Doesnt mean she wasnt a plant in the first place.
In fact, IMHO it makes Biden look worse, because he knew she was a plant yet couldnt handle it properly. He made it worse on himself.
But she was not a poor undecided voter. Stop with that kinda crap. She was a plant who lied about it. But she wins in the end because Biden had a old reference brain fart.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)One gets to become VP by a single vote - the ultimately prevailing presidential nominee.
I've spent plenty of time in a very small group with Joe Biden, and I agree that he's not quite the same person he was years ago, but then again, the person he was years ago also ran for president a couple of times. It never worked out well, and simply having been VP doesn't mean that he's going to be any better at campaigning than he has been several times before.
I'm a native Delawarean. As someone who has seen the entire arc of his career starting with the New Castle County Council, there are some things about Joe which are not going to change. You deal with the fact that unusual things come out of his mouth from time to time or you don't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)How come you didn't do better in Iowa is a gotcha question?
If Biden wasn't prepared to answer that, he should have been. It's been a news story all week.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baclava
(12,047 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)I dont care how she felt.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)Are we now following the Trump playbook?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kali
(55,019 posts)ahhh the fun times of primaries and the outrage ginned up over nonsense and bullshit
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wisteria
(19,581 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,965 posts)It's like a defensive off-sides penalty in football? Doesn't matter what the offense does because the play will be null if it goes bad?
GET THE PITCHFORKSSHE DIDN'T ANSWER CORRECTLY.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kali
(55,019 posts)"nervous incorrect" - sort of like his "mistaken" movie quote
suggest everybody go get some fresh air and remember that the enemy is orange, not blue
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,965 posts)And she's not running for President.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wisteria
(19,581 posts)I have no sympathy for her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fallout87
(819 posts)speak to a woman like this? Just trying to keep track. Thx
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fallout87
(819 posts)do you know the difference between an apple and an orange?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)He denied the accusation. Period. He also has a 30+ year history of documented instances of him encouraging women to run and speaking out for those that do. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
virgogal
(10,178 posts)It was the wrong thing to say no matter who said it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)they want to believe?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,431 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JudyM
(29,274 posts)support your assertion?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)and it makes me curious about how truthful she's being about her reaction to him now.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wisteria
(19,581 posts)She came to the rally, not to support Biden, nor with an open mind. She came to insult him, and remind him of a loss. He was to kind to her in my opinion.
Frankly, I have been called a lot worse.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fallout87
(819 posts)after being asked a legitimate question from a 21 year old woman... and this guy can win in the general?
Not so sure....
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blues Heron
(5,940 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to wisteria (Reply #11)
Post removed
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)jokes are supposed to be funny. I don't think it is a joke to call someone a liar. I don't find the humor in calling someone dog-faced. I believe pony-soldier is mocking Native American speech patterns when using English, so vaguely racist. I wish I were surprised at how quickly and vehemently his supporters are defending it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
K&R
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JudyM
(29,274 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)about it.
I see no reason to believe anything she says. It's apparent she went there to confront him and try to create a moment that would be bad for him, and she's trying to capitalize on it and she continues to disparage him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fallout87
(819 posts)you (or anyone with class, for that matter) jokingly called someone "Dog Faced"?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)soldier, either.
Btw, you can get the 82nd Airborne's recording of "Dog Faced Solider":
https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Faced-Soldier/dp/B0011XV6SK
Again, it was obviously a silly line meant as a joke, as Biden reacted to her lying.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
whathehell
(29,090 posts)the other day, as was shown in a clip on Morning Joe today...This is getting nuts. Thanks for the link
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fallout87
(819 posts)Please post proof that he had any reason to believe she was lying.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)But Biden needs to use better terminology.
He helped create this narrative with his choice of words.
I knew she was a plant when she asked the question. Biden knew too, but reacted poorly in dealing with it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)you knowing she was a plant and all. I expect some proof beyond "it was obvious" or you're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Its obvious to anyone with any political skills, or even people reading skills. Biden read it correctly, but then reacted poorly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)here bizarrely charged because the apparent inspiration for the line came from an old Western and therefore it was automatically racist. And Biden wasn't lying about the line, or misremembering it, as others have charged, because he got it from his brother, a John Wayne fan, and apparently believed his brother that it was from a John Wayne film.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,999 posts)Calling another member here that would get a hide and that DUer may be shown the door.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
fallout87
(819 posts)K&r
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
calguy
(5,325 posts)I can't but wonder if she was a plant by either Sanders or the GOP. I wouldn't put it past either of them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)Biden so she wouldn't just be a nobody college student.
I don't believe she was questioning him in good faith.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopdiggin
(11,361 posts)make that fairly self evident.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oasis
(49,407 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
quickesst
(6,283 posts).... which the accusers are now wearing. Joe's supporters have practically begged people to come up with something better to rebut, but time after time y'all keep coming up with stuff that's a couple of dimes short of a quarter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)He just can't help himself. This level of malarkey will not bring new voters to the polls.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
revmclaren
(2,529 posts)In a court case I was involved with, the judge told the jury that if a witness lies on the stand, you should consider everything else that that person says is a lie and they need to prove to YOU they are being truthful.
I follow this in life.
Biden was joking...she lied about herself...
Easy to know who to support.
ONLY!!! 2020 and beyond.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oasis
(49,407 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Can we please stop with this? It getting way out of hand. The people on both sides of this are now throwing out stuff like this, and it isnt helping.
Yes, the woman was a plant and Tried to make Biden look bad.
And she succeeded because Biden reacted poorly and used a dumb expression.
Disclaimer: Im a lawyer. That is NOT the proper jury instruction. No court would ever say that. Not one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to squirecam (Reply #48)
Post removed
squirecam
(2,706 posts)No criminal defendant must ever prove that they are innocent. The state always has the burden of proof. If a defense witness lies about something.....the state still has the burden of proof.
I guarantee you that the jury instruction was similar to the one below.
1.7 CREDIBILITY OF WITNESSES
In deciding the facts in this case, you may have to decide which testimony to believe and which testimony not to believe. You may believe everything a witness says, or part of it, or none of it.
In considering the testimony of any witness, you may take into account:
(1) the witnesss opportunity and ability to see or hear or know the things testified to;
(2) the witnesss memory;
(3) the witnesss manner while testifying;
(4) the witnesss interest in the outcome of the case, if any;
(5) the witnesss bias or prejudice, if any;
(6) whether other evidence contradicted the witnesss testimony;
(7) the reasonableness of the witnesss testimony in light of all the evidence; and
(8) any other factors that bear on believability.
You must avoid bias, conscious or unconscious, based on a witnesss race, color, religious beliefs, national ancestry, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender, or economic circumstances in your determination of credibility.
The weight of the evidence as to a fact does not necessarily depend on the number of witnesses who testify about it. What is important is how believable the witnesses are, and how much weight you think their testimony deserves.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
revmclaren
(2,529 posts)the following link.
http://www3.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/306
Really would have helped your 'im a lawyer' statement if you would have responded to my post in your own LAWYER words instead of the first link to pop up in a search.
Sorry...but you are now on ignore since IMHO, you fit the criteria of my first post.
Bye...
ONLY!!! 2020 and beyond.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,727 posts)So the hell what.
The entire point of Iowa and New Hampshire is that candidates are expected to relate to voters face to face. And a good candidate (especially one with 30+ years of campaigning) should know how to deal with people, even belligerent ones with an agenda. Bill Clinton was a master at diffusing confrontations with hecklers and difficult questioners and coming out on top. No excuse for Biden in this case.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Focus on that.
But the poor little undecided voter stuff........BS.
You know it and I know it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopdiggin
(11,361 posts)went on to (respectfully) answer the obviously planted question, to the satisfaction of the audience. In complete control throughout. To characterize that Biden "lost" this round, or "didn't come out on top" .. is to assert an outcome that just plainly didn't occur.
Biden conjured up a weird phrase that had everyone guessing .. but that's the sum total of what transpired here.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...."incident".
So, if she's accusing him of being insulting to her, WHY DID SHE LIE TO HIM, as she's now admitted????? She said flat out that she'd been to a caucus before, and now admits she hasn't. Isn't lying to one's face insulting in her world? It sure is in the real world.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopdiggin
(11,361 posts)(that sent everyone rushing off to google)
But CLEARLY without malice or intent to demean. (watch the damned clip!)
The outrage and "offense" are largely manufactured .. by the "usual suspects" .. to borrow another line that is fading from the collective.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
whathehell
(29,090 posts)remark. She does not, in fact, use the word "insulted" at all. Her complaint is limited to the fact of being asked if she'd been to a caucus, which she called "irrelevant".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,965 posts)should be fucking embarrassed. It makes me sad to read that on a liberal discussion board. Jesus Christ.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,337 posts)Now its ha ha she deserved it
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...many people are way too invested in a narrative about his invincibility. So much so that those within the DU bubble can't even acknowledge that his campaign is in trouble and are willing to defend his insulting a questioner.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kitchari
(2,168 posts)"The phrase was an allusion to a line in a John Wayne movie that Biden had used before. But Moore said she was flummoxed at his reaction to what she thought was a legitimate question."
He was apparently joking, but Joe needs to get some current allusions that the audience will comprehend -- this one landed with a thud and on top of that it gives the appearance of him bullying a young female.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,431 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Silly women. How could she not see that being called dog-faced was just an archaic joke?
(Sarcasm, in case anyone needs it)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,873 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fallout87
(819 posts)when using words like "malarkey" versus calling 21 year old women "Dog faced" liars.
Oh wait... he was joking! Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
W_HAMILTON
(7,873 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Politicub
(12,165 posts)Opposition campaigns are going to send hecklers. Its a cheap and trashy technique but they do it in order to rattle their components.
The optics of the exchange between Biden and the plant are not favorable for the Biden campaign. I get that he used some kind of old-timey retort and I could care less. But it gave his opposition fodder for their deceptive campaigns. I hope he learns from it and does better.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden