sanders is on record calling for Social Security cuts

[Gothmog]

Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 11:18 PM - Edit history (2)

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

1. LOL, oh dear

[DanieRains]

30. Raise The Cap

Yes I heard Bernie say it many times.

He never said cut benefits.

Sorry folks.

Next attack please?

The billionaires are gettin' itchy....

[azureblue]

38. another lie

Typical GOP troll post take a quote and lie about it. Bernie has been saying for years to remove the cap and make the rich pay their fair share into SS.
The next "quote" is an even bigger lie because it is so specious as to amount nothing at all..
Why do the mods let trolls post outright lies like this?

[Demsrule86]

78. I was able to capture this...because I can use the internet....So not a lie...right there in

Sander's column.

[Gothmog]

90. Thank you

This is great

[Big Chief]

109. Except he then proposed increasing it...

Not cutting it. Adjustment doesn’t mean cut...

[Demsrule86]

115. He said the same as Biden.

So no he didn't. He went further than Biden...mentioning benefits.

[Demsrule86]

147. I saw that clip...only it was some years later.

[Cha]

149. Then Why did the BS campaign, sirota et al say

the same thing about Joe Biden?

Riddle us That, BC.

“Sanders says Social Security is projected to be solvent through 2020, but Congress will need to adjust revenues and benefits to keep it financially sound.”

[Cha]

190. BS campaign Accused Biden of the same damn thing with NO Evidence..

Link to tweet

[Cha]

200. NO.. according to those accusing Biden of doing.. BS

did the same thing.

[RandiFan1290]

114. Good question. nt

[Cha]

189. Talk to the BS campaign.. they are the ones who started this "inconvenient fact"..

Last edited Sun Jan 26, 2020, 03:51 AM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

Ask them why they "outright LIE".

[Champion Jack]

202. agreed

[OilemFirchen]

43. From the Bloomberg article:

“Sanders says Social Security is projected to be solvent through 2020, but Congress will need to adjust revenues and benefits to keep it financially sound.”

[DanieRains]

54. I Don't See A Quote From Bernie Just Paraphrasing

I have been listening to Bernie for years on Brunch With Bernie in the beginning.

He has never said he wanted to cut benefits.

I have heard him say raise the cap repeatedly.

Show me a video of Bernie saying we need to cut benefits.

It doesn't exist.

[Doitnow]

59. Ditto. On Thom Hartmann's program.

[OilemFirchen]

70. Pish posh.

The Bloomberg claim dates to 1996. Thom Hartmann started his show in 2003.

As to the rest, feh.

[Cha]

205. Pish!

[Demsrule86]

116. Exactly, you think he meant raise benefits to keep it solvent? Hal

He got caught,

[Demsrule86]

128. You don't keep something solvent by raising benefits...nice try though.

Sanders got caught.

[Demsrule86]

146. It was in the newspaper in Gothmog's post...he said it so...maybe you missed it?

[bloom]

193. This is BS - adjustments have and can be made by raising the income level at which money is taken

at the paycheck / income level - So there is more money available for disbursement.

Is that the same thing that Biden has called for - or has he called for actually reducing benefits.

That is not the same.

[onetexan]

47. LOL Whooops BS camp is now scrambling for spin i'm sure

[Wellstone ruled]

2. Ouch!!

Going to leave a mark.

[George II]

7. Yes, it's gonna BERN!

[Docreed2003]

9. Would this be considered a Bern Notice???

Asking for a friend, lol

[Wellstone ruled]

23. Learned decades ago

when it comes to what Candidates say or for that part,what their Campaign people say,never goes away. And it usually comes back in some ugly way.

The Mark won't go away.

[onetexan]

49. Apparently he's promising pie-in-the-sky solutions to the young and stiffing retirees

i suppose SS cuts are meant to fund free college & medicare for all? Money's gotta come from somewhere. No thanks Bernie.

[Cha]

191. Yes, this is their Burn Notice.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

51. As it SHOULD! Gift for America!

Link to tweet

[Thekaspervote]

3. Oh that pesky internet...as aoc said earlier today "some campaign as if there is no internet."

bernie ...did you think this wouldn’t surface?!

[Scurrilous]

12. LOL

She was so full of herself this afternoon.

[Thekaspervote]

34. Indeed!!

[comradebillyboy]

35. How is that different from every other afternoon?

[Thekaspervote]

45. Ha!! It isn't

[Scurrilous]

57. LOL

Today was the first time I saw one of her tweets. It was only because people were linking to it and expressing their outrage.

Then I posted about here...to express outrage.

[TwilightZone]

4. Another self-inflicted wound.

One would think that Sanders' staff would look into whether or not he had made similar comments before making it a campaign issue.

[Gothmog]

5. I am smiling

[Demsrule86]

20. Me too! May I say thanks, thanks and thanks...K&R as well. You are a Goddess!

[Gothmog]

25. This makes me smile

Link to tweet

[Thekaspervote]

36. Smiling ...and happy dance 💃

[Demsrule86]

68. Me too.

[Demsrule86]

55. I am smiling as I read it...haha

[mr_lebowski]

56. All you have to do is read the quote to know the headline is bullshit ...

He clearly did not 'urge' SS 'adjustments'.

""[In '96] Sanders said ... the Social Security system had 'been adjusted before, and adjustments will have to be made again."

That is not, by any stretch, 'urging'.

I'm not saying there's not some hypocrisy involved on BS's part, don't get me wrong.

But I fucking hate headlines that are bullshit. Period.

Gee, I wonder what Bloomberg news is up to with headlines like this?

And damn, what a shitshow this primary season is. So over it already.

[Demsrule86]

99. It is a fine headline...don't see anything wrong with it...

[mr_lebowski]

101. I explained why it's bullshit, so ...

Dunno what else to tell ya Dems

Actually here, if I say "I've had to sit in shitty traffic before, and I'm sure l'll have to again" ... would you say "Mr L urges bad traffic to exist?"

No, of course you wouldn't.

Cause it'd be bullshit.

[Demsrule86]

104. You explained why you think it is Bullshit...I disagree...

Did you see the original contemporaneous newspaper Gothmog posted?

[mr_lebowski]

105. I did ... and I still see nothing I'd categorize as 'urging' ... and certainly not urging 'cuts'

as the OP says.

When you say 'urges', it implies 'urgency' you see? It's kinda the same root word?

What he says is clearly the OPPOSITE of expressing urgency re: adjustments. It's very much a 'someday we'll have to ...'

Not sure how this is confusing?

That said, Bernie did step into shit here criticizing Biden for saying a very similar thing to what he himself has said in the past, not arguing against that point.

[nolawarlock]

107. "ya Dems?"

… Aren't you on Democratic Underground?

[mr_lebowski]

187. DemsRule86 and I are ... familiar ...

I called her Dems for short ...

[azureblue]

40. speaking of self inflicted

You wound yourself when you repeat and support a known lie, a half truth, a mischaracterization. GTFOH

See, here's the thing - when you put up attack posts for whatever candidate you are supporting, that means your candidate has nothing to run on. Because if he or she did, THAT - substance, facts support your candidate's platform, etc., is what you would be posting.

[Cha]

150. The BS campaign accused Joe Biden of

the same damn thing.. are you saying the BS campaign has "wounded" themselves?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287440450

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

chris evans

@notcapnamerica

@BernieSanders
: “Barack Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi. That speaks to very bad work done by Democrats there. 90% of white people in Mississippi are not racist.”

FALSE!

Link to tweet

[George II]

6. myohmy!!!

[lapucelle]

102. yEs iNdeEd-Y

[NCProgressive]

8. oooops

How embarrassing for the Sanders camp

[DanieRains]

31. Oooooooh

Not.

[Thekaspervote]

37. Ooooh yes!!

[Scurrilous]

10. So much for forty years of fighting. Do you think they'll redo the attack ads?

Link to tweet

[Cha]

21. Doesn't the BS campaign know

there are records?!!!

Link to tweet

[Docreed2003]

11. I really hate it when people act like there's no internet, lol

[Gothmog]

15. yep

Link to tweet

[Demsrule86]

17. And this is Bloomberg no less. Gives credence to the idea that Bloomberg is running in order

to hit Trump with ads and begin the general early in a sense. And since he is a candidate, he doesn't have to deal with donor rules and regulations. He may not be trying to win the nomination. In fact, this could be considered playing defense for Biden. After all the Sanders and Warren Team crap here...maybe this is the real tag team.

[Thekaspervote]

39. As she said this morning...some campaign as if there were no internet...come again aoc???

[Cha]

22. Ikr.. wth are they thinking?!!!!!

[Scurrilous]

24. Heh!

[Big Chief]

111. Same here... This is a lie, and here is the video proof.

Link to tweet

?s=21

[Recursion]

112. *snort* (nt)

[RandySF]

13. .

[NYMinute]

14. Oh boy

"Damnit Sirota, I ordered you to clean up everything contradictory I said before and you missed this."

[Demsrule86]

16. Yeah...can you say 'hypocrite'?

That will bern... and leave a mark...

[peggysue2]

18. Oops!

Those who live in glass houses . . . We all know the rest.

Good to see pushback on the ongoing finger-pointing by people who haven't done their homework.

This ain't 2016.

[Cha]

19. i was hoping you'd

make this an OP.

Thanks, Goth

[Gothmog]

28. Hey Cha

[EveHammond13]

26. Ruh roh!

[bluedye33139]

27. This all makes me mad. None of the major candidates are

enemies of social security and Medicare, and all of the major candidates for the Democratic party would be good for social security.

I don't have major problems with Sanders on policy, but I don't like the way he campaigns.

[Cha]

29. I don't like anything about BS.

[Thekaspervote]

41. Nor do I.. great that he will not be the nominee!!

[TwilightZone]

64. Agreed

The assertion that any of our candidates would target SS is disingenuous. There are other areas in which the candidates can accentuate their differences.

[Cha]

67. Yeah, So why did the BS campaign start this..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

FALSE!

Link to tweet

[Blue_true]

86. You make a good observation.

I don't believe that any democrat disagree with the end goal that Sanders wants, better health insurance for all Americans, income security for all Americans, ect. Where we disagree is the best way to get there.

[mac2766]

32. Ugghhhh

I'm sure that "Ugghhh" is offensive to some.

[Demsrule86]

72. Not at all...I am sure this must be very difficult...tsk tsk. Such a shame but you know...he didn't

act on his apparently expressed desire to er 'adjust' SS in some fashion... Now what did adjust mean according to the Sanders Campaign...oh yeah...'cut'. Cheers.

[TiberiusB]

84. Moving those goal posts...

You have to notice that the debate has shifted from "Biden never called for cuts to SS" to "but Bernie is no better." So we all agree that "adjustments" means "cuts", then? No? Notice, too, the vitriol aimed at AOC, who opined about Biden's history of calling for spending freezes affecting SS which are captured on video and on the Internet, as she said. That gets ignored and they pretend she was only referring to the "adjustments" quote. I'm actually for Warren, and I'll support whoever gets the nom, but Biden is far from a saint on a number of political issues, which you'd never guess from these forums. There's plenty of evidence that Bill Clinton and Obama were both prepared to potentially agree to SS cuts, such as the COLA changes (chained CPI). Dems are far too quick to fall prey to the "fiscal responsibility" canard and go on defense on issues like this. This isn't a pat on the back for Bernie. He needlessly provokes these confrontations and increasingly looks desperate and ill prepared.

[Blue_true]

87. Sanders spoke of adjustments in revenue and BENEFITS.

Adjustment in benefits has historically meant cuts. Since Sanders was talking about keeping SS solvent, the adjustment in benefits almost surely meant cuts.

[TiberiusB]

88. It's the usual political game of semantics

Quite possibly they do mean cuts. Probably. Those billionaire tax cuts won't pay for themselves. I tend to think this is beltway wisdom in action, too. The idea that it is just patently obvious that entitlements are killing us, and only very serious people can save the day by cutting benefits, is a notion that has been around since snake oil salesman Reagan slithered into office. If you watch the old videos of Biden calling for spending freezes, he clearly seems to be trying to prove that he's no tax and spend Democrat, why, he's even more Republican than the Republicans! Just watch him boast how he was out in front and one of the first to call for freezes to programs like SS (and yes, a freeze is a cut). He clearly thought, and possibly believes today, that those "adjustments" were good politics and necessary. He's not alone on the left. Many "centrists" and "moderates" believe that as well. The GOP going off the deep end seems to be the only thing that has prevented SS from getting the axe already.

[Blue_true]

93. Being called a tax and spend democrat was something people avoided being called.

A lot O's people said stuff that they regretted. I think that using a fuzzy word like "adjustments" to attack an opponent is out of bounds, now Senator Sanders has to explain what he meant when using the same word, and using social security solvency, revenue and benefits in the same sentence doesn't help his case.

[mcar]

33. What will his staff say?

[Blue_true]

95. They will continue to try to lie, that is the only certainty. nt

[mcar]

96. Yep

[Gothmog]

42. The point is that Sanders team says "adjustment" is understood to mean cuts but they say that is not

Link to tweet

[Cha]

46. Oh NO they don't! They're NOT fooling

ANYONE!

[Kahuna7]

44. Well well well...

[betsuni]

48. K&R

[Cha]

50. Bloomberg (News) digs up a gift for Biden:. and America!

Link to tweet

[Doitnow]

52. Just another smear attempt, folks. Time for another donation to Bernie!!

[BannonsLiver]

58. Facts are facts.

But it’s amazing how facts turn into smears when the tables are turned on Bernie. Some would call that a hypocritical response.

[Doitnow]

62. You must get your facts from Fox. Let's all send another donation to Bernie.

[BannonsLiver]

65. No, I got mine from Bernie's mouth in this case.

Facts are facts. You can donate all you want. It won’t change that.

[Doitnow]

123. Link?

[BannonsLiver]

124. LOL

It’s in the OP. Try and keep up.

[Demsrule86]

117. Fox and Trump like Sanders. Read the texts. You know we have an internet.

We shouldnt act like it doesn't exist.

[The Valley Below]

76. You told me this sort of thing would happen even before it happened.

It's like you are Nostradamus or something.

[Cha]

63. NO.. it's the SAME THING the BS campaign is Accusing Biden

of.

TIME for ANOTHIER DONATION to BIDEN!

[Demsrule86]

69. 'Money can't buy you love'...

[Gothmog]

53. Here is an email that I just got from the Biden Campaign

Here is an e-mail that just got.

Hey XXXXXXX, it’s Greg, Joe Biden’s Campaign Manager.

We’ve already emailed you once about Bernie Sanders’ campaign attacking Joe with misleading claims on Social Security, but I wanted to follow up in case you missed that note.

As Democrats, we can’t launch dishonest attacks against fellow Democrats. We have to beat Donald Trump.

But Bernie’s campaign has unleashed a barrage of negative attacks on Joe Biden.

He even accused Joe Biden of supporting Paul Ryan’s cuts to Social Security. XXXXXX Bernie’s campaign is not telling the truth.

But Bernie’s campaign has more money than we do, and those funds could go directly towards amplifying these false claims. So we’re ramping things up to bring in a surge of online contributions and set the record straight. ....

Here’s the truth: Joe Biden has voted repeatedly to save Social Security. He and President Obama beat back Republican attempts to privatize it. And in 2012, Joe Biden even said he didn’t support those cuts to Paul Ryan’s face at the Vice Presidential Debate.

The fact is that Joe Biden’s plan protects Social Security and it will increase benefits.

And here’s the most important thing: Bernie’s negative attacks won’t change the truth…Joe Biden is still the strongest Democrat to beat Donald Trump.....

Thanks for being on our team,

Greg Schultz
Campaign Manager
Biden for President

I am a maxed out primary donor and so cannot respond

[Kurt V.]

60. the title line is not true gothmog. no where does the link say that. for shame. :(

[TwilightZone]

73. Context.

The Sanders campaign has criticized Biden specifically for using the word "adjustments" in a 2018 speech, insisting that the word can only mean cuts to SS. If his campaign insists that adjustments can only mean cuts, then by that logic, Sanders' usage of the term in 1996 would also only mean cuts.

The title isn't meant to be literal. It's meant to point out hypocrisy. The context is detailed in the tweets.

[Kurt V.]

75. thanks i didn't get that. biden has in fact, with nuances, called for cuts to ss.

[Gothmog]

89. You are wrong

[Cha]

61. Fred Guttenberg.. "spin that anyway you want.. "

Link to tweet

[calimary]

83. Ouch.

[betsuni]

113. +1

[Cha]

151. to Fred Guttenberg..

[Midnightwalk]

66. Why do I keep reading Democrats want to cut social security?

I don’t worry that any democratic candidate will cut social security. That’s what the republicans want to do.

I wish we would keep that clear to voters rather than keeping on muddying the water.

We need to eventually do something like raising the withholding limit to keep benefits fully solvent. There might be something unpalatable needed to trade if we don’t have enough votes. I hope we win enough of a majority so that isn’t necessary.

Yeah i know that the other side started it but this argument isn’t going to persuade anyone in a positive way. Call the attacks bs (no pun intended) and say that no democratic candidate is going to cut social security.

Compared to what the republicans want to do that’s the truth.

[boomer_wv]

71. Falsly accusing his opponent of

doing exactly what he has actually done. Sound familiar?

Speaking of social security....has anyone given any thought to how Bernie is going to find the money to pay for all of these things he says he's going to do when he can't get congress to pass the massive tax hikes he would need? A lot of that money is going to get "borrowed" from Social Security, and will eventually lead to it failing.

We, as democrats, have understood this. Clinton worked us into a budget Surplus and Obama had cut the deficit drastically before Trump ballooned it again. We are the fiscally responsible party, and we need to act like it if we want to protect these things.

[Demsrule86]

74. +10000

[yaesu]

77. well, while they are arguing who said what, when, tRump and the fascists are cutting SS. nt

[Scurrilous]

121. Yep.

Trump was on TV talking about cutting SS and AOC was on Twitter castigating Biden... at the same exact time. Side by side.

Everyone was like...WTF!

I invoked Bella Abzug, who also represented the Bronx, rolling in her grave.

[krakfiend]

79. Ooops....Lucy you got some explaining to do.

[Demsrule86]

82. Nope Sanders has some explaining to do...I picture and ad...with the Newspaper article

I posted...showing Sander direct quote...ah what a day.

[Gothmog]

92. Again, thank you

[Demsrule86]

98. No thank you!

[Demsrule86]

80. Please copy the Newspaper article and add to your OP if you desire...to show all those who question

your truthfulness and are spinning the Bloomberg article...Sanders said it...in his column you see it...and the NewsPaper article is great too...really shows what we were up against at the time..Sanders talks about how great it was that they held the line and all. I am sure you know this, but right click and copy image address... Thanks for this OP.

[Gothmog]

94. Thank you

Done

[Demsrule86]

97. I really appreciate your post...well done.

[wyldwolf]

81. AOC: "I don't understand why some folks run as if the internet doesn't exist." lol.

[Blue_true]

85. Oooooohhhh, that's going to leave a mark. nt

[Gothmog]

91. Yes the internet does exist.

Link to tweet

[Wawannabe]

100. Pot calls the kettle black

Knew he would be outed!

[lapucelle]

103. Vetting works.

Shadow group provides Sanders super PAC support he scorns

https://apnews.com/345bbd1af529cfb1e41305fa3ab1e604

[Demsrule86]

118. It just keeps coming. And it is international? What the fuck?

[RandySF]

106. K&R

[Eric J in MN]

108. Bernie introduced a bill to increase Social Security around that time.

Link to tweet

?s=21

[Demsrule86]

119. That was later. we were on our wsy to a successful midterm .

It is exactly what Biden said...so if Biden meant cuts than Sanders did too.

[Big Chief]

110. Lie. Instant fact check.

Link to tweet

?s=21

Yes... there is an Internet.

[Demsrule86]

120. Year later...run up to the midterm. He said what Biden said...so if Biden meant cuts so did Sanders

ADJUSTMENT IN BENEFITS to keep social security solvent. It sure doesn't sound like an increase now does it? He said it. So if Sanders claims Biden meant cuts than so did he.

[Demsrule86]

145. Sanders said the same thing...and it is in the newspaper...but good luck with this because two can

play this...game. Biden never cut social security...he could have voted that way...it was just the usual bullshit politicians talks...neither Biden nor Sander ever intended to cut social security...and the debate with Ryan was just a lie...doctored video...shame on the Sanders campaign...when they lose the primary, it will be because of this sort of thing...and of course hiring Stein voters. Of course should I be wrong...he has my vote in a general.

[Tom Rinaldo]

122. Use of words matter, in both directions

"Adjustments" is a vague word which requires context to be understood. If Trump calls for "adjustments" he is not calling for an increase in benefits, he is calling for cuts. Another type of "adjustment" is raising the ceiling on the amount of one's income that is subject to Social Security taxation. Right now all income above that of an upper middle class person goes untaxed for Social Security purposes. That would increase the solvency of Social Security and provide funds for increased benefits.

I do not believe Sanders ever advocated for cuts in Social Security. However his team needs to provide more contextual evidence to support a conclusion that when Biden used the word "adjustments" that he in fact was advocating reigning in spending on Social Security

[Scotch-Irish]

126. If you read what was in the articles posted, he was looking for cuts of OTHER programs

to keep social security solvent.

There are way too many lies on DU these days about Bernie, and I'm getting really sick of it.

[Demsrule86]

129. He said... 'benefits in the newspaper...so...you don't increase benefits to get solvency now do you

[Go Vols]

135. He also said revenues.

By the summer of 2014, a small group of Democratic caucus senators, led by Sen. Bernie Sanders, started advocating for lifting Social Security’s payroll tax cap so wealthier people paid more into the system, and then increasing benefits to seniors. Polling by advocacy groups found broad support for expansion.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/02/obama-wanted-to-cut-social-security-then-bernie-sanders-happened/

[Demsrule86]

139. 20 years later ...OK...doesn't change the fact he used the same words Biden used...so either Sanders

was up for cutting SS for solvency as well as Biden ...or neither of them were...which is my opinion. He doesn't get to attack on this when he played the game too.

[booley]

127. Weird becuase when they were tryign to do the "Grand Bargain there was Sanders protesting it

Biden has forty years of calling for cuts. And when he thought he had the power to do so, tried for that very thing.

The grand bargain is a good example.

I know Biden supporters really want a Tu Torque so they can get the conversation off of Biden's very long record on this. And some think its easier to attack Sanders's character than his policies. A lot of cynicism in politics and the thinking is Sanders would be easier to deal with if he can be dragged down into it. It' a technique Rove pioneered and I always expected it would be used against Sanders.

But I don't' think this is going to do that. Probably would have helped more if Biden just came clean, admitted his position historically is very different from the one he claims to have now and explained why he changed his mind.

Just my opinion of course.

Then-White House spokesman Jay Carney defended the move, saying that the budget Obama put forward was “not his ideal budget,” but that it’s a “document that recognizes that to achieve a bipartisan solution to our budget challenges we need to make tough choices.”

Obama’s backtracking set off a furious reaction from seniors groups and progressive activists, who for the next few months mobilized their members to pressure Congress to reject the proposed change. By April 2013, 2.3 million Americans had signed petitions calling on the president to back off of chained CPI. The signatures were presented at a White House rally that featured Sanders, who vowed to “do everything in my power to block President Obama’s proposal to cut benefits for Social Security recipients through a chained consumer price index.”

The senator mobilized a wide coalition or organizations, including veterans, women’s rights groups, and labor unions to oppose chained CPI.

Under this intense activist pressure, the White House was unable to convince its own allies in Congress that this change was worth the political costs. The next year, the chained CPI was quietly dropped from Obama’s budget proposal.

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton’s evolution on the issue could also be traced to Sanders. Clinton initially shied away from the question of expanding the program, issuing only noncommittal statements on the issue. But after being directly challenged on the Social Security program this past February by the Sanders campaign, Clinton tweeted, “As always, I’ll defend it, & I’ll expand it.”

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/02/obama-wanted-to-cut-social-security-then-bernie-sanders-happened/

https://slate.com/business/2020/01/joe-biden-social-security-deficit.html

If you can find the one where Biden protects Social Security from Bernie, let me know.

[Demsrule86]

130. Biden never cut social security nor did Sanders...but both gave lip service to solvency...and

Sander thought he could get away with attacking Biden using the sort of thing he participated in...talking about solvency and benefits...I don't think either would really cut social security but the Sanders campaign can't lie about Biden with impunity.He is being vetted this run.

[Scurrilous]

132. Yep.

Obama poisoned pilled his chained CPI offer with a tax increase demand. The GOP won't do tax increases. They immediately walked away and never brought up chained CPI again. That took chained CPI off the table, exposed the GOP as hypocrites (they asked for chained CPI), shut up the Republicans and the media who were complaining Obama wouldn't compromise, and paved the way for Obama to advocate for a Social Security increase in 2016. It was all political maneuvering. Talk. Obama 3-D chess. It wan't an offer you couldn't refuse, it was an offer you had to refuse. But the cat food cultists (Obama is making Nana eat cat food!) still to this day complain and complain about an offer the GOP had to refuse.

From the RNC:

"Moreover, the Administration insists that the President will only agree to chained CPI if it is included in a “balanced” package that includes separate tax increases."

Poison pill:

"A poison pill is a form of defense tactic utilized by a target company to prevent or discourage attempts of a hostile takeover by an acquirer. As the name "poison pill" indicates, this tactic is analogous to something that is difficult to swallow or accept."


Americans for Tax Reform

"Since 1986, ATR has sponsored the Taxpayer Protection Pledge, a written promise by legislators and candidates for office that commits them to oppose tax increases. All candidates for state and federal office, and all incumbents are offered the Pledge. Nearly 1,400 elected officials, from state representatives, to governors, to US Senators, have signed the Pledge.[8] There are separate versions at the national and state level.[9][10]

In the version for the U.S. House of Representatives, the signer pledges to:[11]

ONE, oppose any and all efforts to increase the marginal income tax rates for individuals and/or businesses; and

TWO, oppose any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits, unless matched dollar for dollar by further reducing tax rates.

In the version for state legislators, the signer pledges that:

I will oppose and vote against any and all efforts to increase taxes.

In the 112th Congress serving in years 2011 and 2012, all but six of the 242 Republican members plus two Democratic members of the U.S. House of Representatives, for a total of 238 – a majority of that body – as well as all but seven of the 47 Republican members plus one Democratic member of the U.S. Senate, for a total of 41, have signed the Taxpayer Protection Pledge. Since 1986, ATR has sponsored the Taxpayer Protection Pledge, a written promise by legislators and candidates for office that commits them to oppose tax increases. All candidates for state and federal office, and all incumbents are offered the Pledge. Nearly 1,400 elected officials, from state representatives, to governors, to US Senators, have signed the Pledge.[8] There are separate versions at the national and state level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Tax_Reform


Oh the humanity. Thank God Bernie saved us from this thing that had no chance of happening.

[Demsrule86]

133. That is how it is done...and Obama was a master.

[Scurrilous]

136. Yes he was. Totally outmaneuvered the GOP.

[Demsrule86]

138. And this time Sanders will be vetted as he should before the General.

[Scurrilous]

140. No one has pinned him down yet on the question of how he'll do it.

He's skated so far with the magic fairy dust revolution line: people will rise up blah blah... taxes on the rich!!

Hopefully that won't last long. Because if you look deep enough, you're looking at fraud.

He needs to be honest about how he'll pass his massive amount of legislation. He isn't being honest. And by not being honest he has a lot of people believing he can do it, when he can't. He knows he can't. He's been in Congress 30 years. He knows the magic fairy dust revolution can't pass legislation.

He needs to be honest that the passage of all his legislation, the tax on the rich etc. have little chance of happening.

Bernie isn't doing the usual campaign promise 'chicken in every pot' thing. And if it doesn't happen, 'oh, well'. He is literally promising everything. For all. The amount of things he has promised is jaw-dropping. That's what makes this different. The scale. No 'oh,well' here when it doesn't happen. The trundles will roll.

Biden's climate plan:

"Biden’s climate plan includes executive orders to help curb emissions from oil and gas extraction and increase the energy efficiency of vehicles and buildings, among other goals. Biden, who has led Democratic primary polls since he entered the campaign, also vows to “demand” that Congress act on climate change during his first year in office and to “hold them accountable” if a bill doesn’t pass."

He is being honest. He isn't claiming he'll be able to pass a thing in Congress.

Bernie is pushing Green New Deal. Green New Deal has been introduced in the Senate and voted down. Way back in March. But Bernie is out on the campaign trail talking about saving the planet with his Green New Deal. That's not being honest. He is deliberately deluding his followers. And taking their money.

Someone was joking yesterday about how Bernie, who a lot of people are aware is a fraud, must be feeling a bit nervous at the impeachment hearings.

Let's hope it doesn't get that far. Because he'll take the Democratic party down with him.

[Demsrule86]

148. Sander is good on a certain spiel...I don't see much ability to write legislation or plan to

get things passed...

[Demsrule86]

153. There was never going to be a bargain...Obama effectively took it off the table with his poison

pill tax increase...careful,President Obama is very popular.

[LanternWaste]

131. Both Sanders and Biden want to secure and protect Social Security. All of our candidates do.

Anyone with half a brain realizes that both Sanders and Biden want to secure and protect Social Security. All of our candidates do. I find that comforting.

But we do have to accept that far too often, both nuance and context are the domain of Sacred Cows only, and ignored in regards to Biden-- to more conveniently fill in the emPTy spaCEs on halF-WItTed bumPER stiCKErs!!!!

Or something like that.

[Demsrule86]

134. I know that and so does Sanders which is why the attacks against Biden are really wrong and are

nothing more than smears.

[Cha]

137. K!

[The Mouth]

141. "Adjustments" could also mean raising the cap

or the retirement age by a year or two. Kind of necessary at some point, as long as life expectencies are going up. Life expectancy at birth in 1930 was only 58 for men and 62 for women when the retirement age was 65


I can't really see Bernie ever have actually suggested that SSI would be cut, I mean you don't have to support him to see that.

[Demsrule86]

152. He specifically mentioned benefits...I doubt either Sanders or Biden were serious...it is a game

that is often played in Washington ...being reasonable...Obama did the same thing with chained CPI...put a poison pill tax increase in his offer which effectively removed chained CPI from consideration. But Sanders doesn't get to lie about Biden when he said the same thing. He knows the truth.

[The Mouth]

155. OK, respectfully, point me to a different quote then

because the quote being discussed does not, in my opinion, specifically say "We are going to cut benefits". I don't have a dictionary where "adjustment" = "Cut". Of course a cut is an adjustment, but so would be raising the retirement age or the cap.

I don't believe the assertion is proved. I don't care what Joe said or what Bernie said joe said, I am strictly saying I see no incontrovertible, unambiguous proof that Bernie said "We will cut benefits".

[Demsrule86]

156. did you see gothmogs OP...the newspaper where Sanders say...'adjustments in benefits'

is there...I think she posted it on this thread too...make it bigger so you can read it...he said it...at the time there was a great deal of pressure for this...as Democrats are always expected to reduce the deficit...while pugs blow it up.

[Tiggeroshii]

154. That article in the bottom right is showing his pleasure that we did NOT get cuts.

And "adjustments" are not cuts.

[Gothmog]

157. You can not claim that adjustments mean one this is sanders says this word

And something else if Biden uses the same terminology

No one takes Sirota’s lies seriously.

sanders continues to show very bad judgment hiring people like sirota and stein supporters.

[Tiggeroshii]

158. Sanders never said adjustments are cuts

[Gothmog]

159. LOL

Denial is not just a river in Africa

Why does sanders show such poor judgment hiring and not firing liars like Sirota and stein supporters?

[Tiggeroshii]

160. Do you have a video or transcript?

[Gothmog]

161. Denial is still not just a river in Africa

Luckily everyone knows that Sirota is a liar and so few pay attention to sanders and Sirota’s lies I

Seriously, sanders show extremely bad judgment hiring and not firing liars like Sirota and the stein supporters. Do you want a person like Sirota working in the White House or a bunch of stein supporters holding senior positions?

[Tiggeroshii]

163. Genuinely I would like to see a direct quote or video of his saying that.

I have looked for it and could not find it. Only a tweet accusing him of. If you could provide it, I would appreciate it.

[Demsrule86]

164. It is in the OP...in he newspaper you will see his picture...

[Gothmog]

165. LOL-Read the material posted -it is there

sanders and Sirota are lying.

When I vote for a Democratic nominee, I want that candidate/nominee to show good judgment and hire actual Democrats to work in our government. sanders has shown horrible judgement hiring a liar like sirota and a bunch of stein supporters. How can anyone be comfortable with such poor judgment?

[Tiggeroshii]

167. Nope. Nowhere in there does he say he supports cuts to social security.

He said he supported cuts to defense spending, and he said he is glad that Gingrich didn't get more social security cuts. Maybe somewhere else?

[Gothmog]

170. You are wrong

Read the material. The material posted above is clear if you actually read it.

Sanders and Sirota lied about Biden and sanders has proposed the exact same type of adjustments.

I note that you do NOT want to defend sanders very bad judgment of hiring and NOT firing a liar like Sirota and a number if stein supporters. I am not comfortable with this very poor judgement

If sanders wants to build support, sanders needs to stop lying and he needs to fire Sirota and the stein supporters

[Gothmog]

172. Are you comfortable with sanders poor judgment on staffing?

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

196. The media has called out and expose sanders lie

Link to tweet

?s=20

[betsuni]

198. +1

[Demsrule86]

166. Here...

See Bernard Sanders look down...to second column

'Sanders say Social Security is expected to be solvent through 2030 but Congress will need to adjust revenues and benefits to keep it financially sound. He opposes privatizing the system,saying it would put the funds at much risk.'

He says benefits will need to be adjusted...you see? Now I don't think either Sanders or Biden had any intention of really cutting Social Security...political speak...but Sanders can't say Biden meant it but he didn't when...it is the same thing.

[Tiggeroshii]

168. Again. He does not say he supports cuts. He said there needs to be adjustments to the system to keep

it solvent past 2030 and opposes any attempts to privatize it. "Adjustments" in this context clearly means putting more money into it.

People are accusing him of being a hypocrite because they say he said that "Adjustments" meant cuts when Biden said it. But I have not seen any quotes where he specifically said adjustments mean cuts. If you could provide that for me, I would appreciate it.

[Gothmog]

173. Yes he does

Denial is not just a river in Africa

[Tiggeroshii]

175. Nope. Saying so doesnt make it the case.

[Gothmog]

176. You are wrong

Link to tweet

[Tiggeroshii]

177. So I've seen this before, but this tweet is not supported with any evidence

Where is a clip or a transcript of him saying that adjustments are a euphemism for cuts??? That is all I'm asking for. I'm fully aware he could have said that, but could not find it. Can you?

[Gothmog]

178. Denial is not just a river in Africa

The fact that you do not like these fact do not mean that these facts do not exist. Luckily the real world knows the facts

[Tiggeroshii]

179. The fact you are not providing evidence and only repeating a line is not doing wonders credibility

Wise. Only that you are willing to smear politicians and obfuscate words in order to meet an agenda. In all this, if it even said what you say in the newspaper clip, you would be able to give me a direct quote from it. But that so far has not happened.

[Demsrule86]

181. He said it right there in black and white...and why is your candidate cozying up with right wing

nut job Joe Rogan?

[Tiggeroshii]

182. Provide a quote to me from the "black and white"

Of what you say he said. Still waiting on you to support your claim with... anything!

[Gothmog]

183. The evidence was provided

You are simply ignoring this evidence Denial is not just a river in Africa

[Tiggeroshii]

184. Because there is no evidence. I am the only one here that actually took a quote from the newspaper

And transferred it into a post. Nobody else seems willing to do that. Why?

[Gothmog]

185. No you are still completely wrong

Read the material. Your claims are simply false The real world is a nice place where fact checkers are important. Your claims are simply false

[Gothmog]

186. You are still wrong

Denial is not just a river in Africa

[Gothmog]

195. I am glad that AOC told us about the internet

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Tarheel_Dem]

162. K&R

[Scurrilous]

169. ...

[Amimnoch]

171. So, in yet another way BS parallels trump tactics.

Accuse the opponent of the very thing he, himself guilty of.

Any support of this failed, compromised, beneficiary of the same Russian propaganda machine is a grave mistake.

Our candidate must never be Bernard Sanders. Gabbard or Bloomberg are more viable choices.

[Gothmog]

174. Exactly

Last edited Fri Jan 24, 2020, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)

sanders is using the trump/Karl Rove playbook

[Cha]

197. +1

[YOHABLO]

180. I don't trust Biden. He might be saying one thing now but...

I honestly don't trust any of the candidates on SS. We have to have a Democratic Congress before any changes can be made to any programs.

[Cha]

188. I don't "trust" the BS campaign..

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

192. I also do not trust sanders or his campaign staff

[Cha]

194. Kick for that.

[Gothmog]

199. Sanders' Social Security 'adjustments' undercut Biden attack

sanders and Sirota lied about Joe Biden and social security . sanders has called for cuts also https://apnews.com/31c432f20acba807a569c7004abaf473

As a congressman in the 1990s, Bernie Sanders expressed an openness to making “adjustments” to the tax and benefit structure of Social Security. He also praised an overhaul of the social safety net program signed into law by President Ronald Reagan that reduced benefits and increased taxes on working families.

Sanders’ presidential campaign and allies have highlighted similar remarks by Joe Biden to attack the former vice president and make the explosive charge that Biden was an outspoken proponent of slashing the program.
With Iowa’s first-in-the-nation presidential caucuses less than a week away, Sanders’ remarks from decades ago are surfacing as a counterpunch to the criticism of Biden, as the two top candidates in the Democratic race escalate a feud over the nation’s most popular entitlement, an issue that has particular reach among older voters.

Sanders, a democratic socialist, is a favorite of progressives who admire him for his convictions and consistency on issues. But when it comes to Social Security, it appears that wasn’t always the case.

In 1994, after Republicans took control of the House for the first time since the Eisenhower era, they brought a renewed focus on fiscal restraint and deficit reduction.
Biden and Sanders both bowed to those pressures in some respect.

Today, Social Security’s long-term finances are sagging under the weight of the ballooning number of baby boomers who are collecting benefits. The options available to sustain the program’s financing also remain the same: Benefits can be cut, taxes can be raised or a combination of the two can be enacted.

Sanders’ allies have specifically highlighted Biden’s past use of the term “adjustments” — a word they say was deployed as a euphemism for cuts.

Yet Sanders himself used the word in an election-year opinion article about Social Security that ran in The Burlington Free Press in 1996.

[lark]

201. Yes, and he doesn't tell the truth when he accuses Joe of doing what he said he didn't do - but did!

[33taw]

203. This is nuts.

I’d rather know everyone’s stand today, rather than decades old stuff from any candidate.

[Scurrilous]

204. Great post.