Note to AOC: 39 of the 41 House seat pickups in '18 were moderates

[scheming daemons]

YOU, AOC, won a D+30 district in which any person on the planet with a (D) next to their name would win.


If the rest of the party was like you, the GOP would have a 100+ seat majority in the House.

[LongtimeAZDem]

1. K&R

[NCProgressive]

2. AOC should do the job she is elected to do

Work in her district and help people of NY-14

All the rest of it is useless.

[Me.]

10. Maybe Not For Long

NY is losing a seat and bets are they will choose to eliminate hers

[NewJeffCT]

25. I doubt it

I'm guessing they'll consolidate upstate NY seats if Dems hold onto both NY state houses and the governorship.

(Not sure how NY decides house districts,though)

[dware]

3. +100. nt

[highplainsdem]

4. K&R

[PBC_Democrat]

5. Probably more like a 200 seat majority ...

I love her idealism and her talking about big ideas but at some point we have to be realistic.

Grand proposals have to have the support of the population before we even have a chance of getting them implemented.

Preaching to and scolding people don't have a great track record. Let's educate and motivate people towards wanting to adopt our ideas.

[LonePirate]

6. Why am I not surprised so many DUers are opposed to someone pulling the party leftward?

[Thekaspervote]

9. Besides the above mentioned..here's why

Voters are fairly clear about what they would like from a Democrat. They prefer, by 82% to 11%, one who promises to find common ground over one who promises to fight for a progressive agenda; and they prefer a moderate over a liberal, 75% to 19%.


They support Biden over the president, 38% to 27%, but prefer the president to Warren, 37% to 20%. This group voted for Trump by a smaller margin in 2016, 37% to 30%, with the rest casting ballots for minor candidates.

Do you want a Dem majority...or not??!!

More at the link
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287336368#post2 NY/Sienna

[LongtimeAZDem]

12. +1

[LonePirate]

17. This is Democratic Underground, not Moderates Underground. Hard to know that from your post.

[TwilightZone]

20. More than half of Democrats self-ID as moderate or conservative.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/246806/understanding-shifts-democratic-party-ideology.aspx

As you noted, it's Democratic Underground, not only-those-who-agree-with-me underground. It's a big tent, to the dismay of many.

[Sloumeau]

23. Thekaspervote was not saying that you have to be a Moderate to be a Democrat...

or that you have to be a Moderate to be here at DemocraticUnderground. Thekaspervote was saying that Moderate Democrats generally have a better chance of winning an election than Democratic Socialist candidates do. Now, there are exceptions to this. If someone is running in a super blue district, like the Bronx, or in a super blue state, like Vermont, then maybe someone should run farther to the left. The key thing is, Democrats need to match the electorate for the state or the district in which they run. If you have a district that is 50% blue and 50% red, and the Democrats run a super Left candidate, and the Republicans run a Moderate candidate, that Moderate Republican will probably win.

Most people that I know that support Moderate candidates like Biden and Klobuchar are actually very liberal in their thinking. They just know what candidates tend to win and which candidates tend to lose in national elections. Democrats used to believe that in national elections you ran as a Moderate Democrat to get into office and then you tack to the Left after you win. This was called "The Pivot". You will notice that Republicans do this every single time. They run as Moderates when they run for President, then after they get in office, they start doing all of these things that 1) they never mentioned they would do when they ran for office and 2) probably would have made them lose the election if people knew they were going to do this.

Every political ideology test that I take shows me as extremely liberal. However, I have studied enough national elections to know what kind of person wins the Presidency. The best way to win the Presidency is to appear in the middle on the issues. The best way to lose is to appear to be in favor of something that a majority of the American citizens are strongly against.

Also, Republicans are the dirtiest fighters in the world. They always prefer not to run against Moderate candidates. They always want their opponents to appear to be as far away from the center as possible. That is why we keep hearing Trump call Democrats "radical" and "extreme". Do you think Trump will ever say, "Oh, Nancy Pelosi. She's a reasonable Moderate. On all of the issues, she is right in the middle of what America wants."

You will never hear that. All you will hear from Trump, and from many Republicans, is how Democrats are crazy and extreme and so far away from what most Americans want. That is because that is the easiest way for Republicans to beat Democrats--when Democrats appear to be outside the mainstream.

[Thekaspervote]

79. Thank you!!

[Sloumeau]

81. You are very welcome. :) eom

[hack89]

24. Moderate Democrats are Democrats. It is not Progressive Underground either. nt

Last edited Tue Jan 21, 2020, 10:46 PM - Edit history (1)

[stopdiggin]

82. but the question was answered

Because most Democrats (and DU members) would dearly love to win some elections.

(For the record .. I really don't have much of a problem with AOC .. and new ideas .. as long as she isn't out there trashing other people .. and the party .. when she isn't winning the argument. Push your agenda by all means .. but recognize that it's a big tent.)

[Bradical79]

53. That is, unfortunately, true

It's a massive problem.

[TwilightZone]

11. She's not going to pull the party leftward if she alienates everyone first.

Which seems to be her somewhat-inexplicable goal. She's also suggested that the party's tent is too large. That large tent is a primary reason why we regained the House in 2018.

American politics is not one-size-fits-all. Purity rarely, if ever, accomplishes anything.

[Scurrilous]

13. I say we just wander around in circles.

[The Mouth]

29. That's boring

The circular firing squad is so much more entertaining.

Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.

[Scurrilous]

32. Good one.

[LongtimeAZDem]

14. We're not; we're lifelong liberals who are opposed to being called "center-conservative"

[LonePirate]

16. If you hate being called center-conservative, then stop supporting those types of candidates.

Your supported primary preference does not mesh with your statement of dislike.

[LongtimeAZDem]

18. Yeah, right:

Elizabeth Warren is a Hard-Core Liberal.


Joe Biden is a Hard-Core Liberal.

[LonePirate]

21. Let me offer up a different source with a much greater distinction between them.

https://qz.com/1748903/how-2020-us-democratic-candidates-compare-to-global-politicians/

[TwilightZone]

22. Political Compass doesn't apply very well to American politics.

As they note in their FAQ and for which they have received significant criticism.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_Compass#Criticism

Their inability to translate European to American politics is one of many criticisms. They have also, for example, been criticized for their methods being well out-of-date:

"Yet the test is highly dated, as many of its propositions (e.g, concerns over counter-terrorism and the commercialization of drinking water) would have made no sense 40 years ago, let alone 200, while others (e.g., several about race and ethnicity) would have been answered very differently even by the radical left-wingers of old time. "

[LongtimeAZDem]

33. Beat me to it

[Demsrule86]

39. They ran a true left pol in UK and now they have conservative rule...same is happening throughout

Europe and could happen here as well.

[Gore1FL]

48. I know I am totally convinced by graphics with no source material. nt

[LongtimeAZDem]

59. You're not familiar with ontheissues.org? Seriously?

[Gore1FL]

60. And I am still not.

But when Biden and Bloomberg are considered far left, then I am happy to not be.

[LongtimeAZDem]

62. Whatever

[squirecam]

28. Everyone right of sanders and warren

Last edited Wed Jan 22, 2020, 02:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Are not conservative Dems. Or even moderates.

Many are progressives. Including Amy.

http://www.progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

[stopdiggin]

83. left? or right?

I would have Klobuchar several steps right of Sanders?

[squirecam]

85. Right

Ty

[Demsrule86]

38. Joe Biden is not a centrist nor is he conservative. So you should seriously stop.

I hate the disparagement of people who don't support your candidate or your views 1000%...an example of my way or the highway kind of politics.

[LonePirate]

41. Biden is indeed a centrist. And we live in a time needing bold, new solutions, not centrist ones.

The current mess we’re in as a country demands an FDR now, not a WJC. Biden’s policies and such are closer in spirit to WJC than FDR.

[Demsrule86]

75. He is not a centrist period. He is a lifelong progressive and I for one am sick of some calling

people who don't agree with them on certain policies like MFA and free tuition (which really means policy that will make us lose elections) centrist which is an insult some came up with in order to divide our party. FDR was in office almost 100 years ago so his ideas are not only not new but ancient. Try winning some elections with the 'bold' message, and I don't mean taking blue seats...how about flipping some GOP seats? And quit lecturing fellow Democrats who may not agree with you on every piece of policy about how they are 'centrist' translated not 'real' Democrats . We want to win elections in order to save the country and the save planet. The AOC/ left won two seats in the midterm...two. Moderates won 39. I am more and more convinced Biden will be the nominee. And that is a good thing.

[Happy Hoosier]

26. Maybe because Democrats are, as a group, more moderate than....

... some of the left end of the party would like to admit?

We're a big coalition party. I think the left flank of the party is important. But it is not the majority.

[redqueen]

30. The place has changed a lot.

I remember many discussions where people here used to talk about how although people ID as moderate, when you look at policies they support, they would be further left - and we used to attribute this to the constant demonization of anything and everything liberal.

Now? Not so much.

[LiberalFighter]

36. Many have their own perception of what is moderate and liberal.

I use govtrack as a guide. It likely would surprise many finding those they consider moderate are more liberal. Hillary is an example.

[Demsrule86]

37. Perhaps some of use view winning elections as more important than pulling the party leftward in

a center left at best country...perhaps some of us think AOC should do the heavy lifting involved in flipping GOP seats instead of attempting to make the party into her mirror image and primarying sitting Democrats. She is a freshman House member and really doesn't know much about anything yet...she is intelligent but not wise in the ways of politics.

[LonePirate]

40. Some of us view any candidate as being able to win instead of only candidates closest to the right.

Also, with regard to AOC, the average 25 year old Democrat more closely aligned with her views than with Biden’s views. So, dismiss her at the party’s peril. Members of the Silent Generation and the Baby Boom Generation are not the only members of the party.

[Gore1FL]

44. The "Get Out we don't need you! and "How could you leave us, we needed you?" is in full force.

The Democrats have been chasing the GOP to the center as GOP moves the center to the right as they chase fascism; all the while casting our values aside for some imaginary electorate in the middle that never comes through.

[The Valley Below]

45. LOL. Liberal Democrats are much further from the populist right than are those on the populist left,

in my estimation.

[Demsrule86]

76. I have seen no evidence of that. Biden's views can be translated into policy...hers won't be. the

votes aren't there. I prefer candidates who can actually get things done. And the view any candidate can win is wrong. This will be a tough election. Trump may very well win. I want the strongest candidate to get the nomination...Neither Sander nor Warren have enough AA vote to win the nomination. Thus, I believe Biden will win.

[The Valley Below]

43. Easy. The Democratic Party is a liberal party and not a socialist party.

That's not hard to understand.

[Gore1FL]

46. It's more the 1970s GOP than it is liberal.

Not fascist like the current GOP is not the same as liberal.

[The Valley Below]

47. Stop smearing the Democratic Party.

[Gore1FL]

50. I'm not.

Please quit pretending that I am.

[The Valley Below]

51. Baloney.

[Gore1FL]

52. I'd like to continue this mesmerizing line of argument.

But golly, how can I top such searing logic and fiery intellect as displayed in your last two posts?

Bye now.

[The Valley Below]

54. Let's hope.

Trashing our party is very uncool.

[Gore1FL]

57. And pretending people are to score points is too.

What part of "Bye now" is giving you trouble?

[The Valley Below]

58. The part where you triple down on the smears of the Democratic Party.

Comparing the Democratic Party to Nixon-era Republicans is an insult. Please desist!

[Gore1FL]

61. This whole "Bye" thing is really giving you trouble.

Let me put it more plainly. I don't have time for your false accusations. I don't have time for you. Please stop harassing me and go accuse someone else of whatever you want to make up. I'm done here.

[The Valley Below]

63. Yet you keep responding to my posts. LOL.

I'm not "harassing" you. LOL. Stop smearing the Democratic party by comparing it to the Nixon-era Republican Party.

This is a website for Democratic loyalists.

[Gore1FL]

64. I've been a loyal Democrat since I first voted in 1984.

It was the last time we had a candidate that ran against Reagonomics. Maybe yo are OK with that. I'm not. I think we can do better than underachieve.

If you don't that's you shitting on the party, not me.

Additionally, I've been a member here since 2001.

Toodles.

[The Valley Below]

65. And yet another slam on the party. 1984 was NOT the last time we had a candidate who ran against

"Reaganomics." What you are saying is manifestly untrue.

I'm clearly NOT OK with the slurs on our party. You are attacking the legacies of fine liberal Democrats like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. What's up with that?

It is gaslighting to accuse *me* of shitting on the party when I stand with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

[Gore1FL]

66. Really?

Name one party nominee post Mondale that ran on returning to pre-Reagan tax rates.

Pretending in pink dragons doesn't make pink dragons appear. Observing what is in plain site isn't shitting on the party. Pretending that if we were just a little more conservative that we could get votes is shitting on the party and everything we stand for. Running from our ideals is shitting on the party.

Be sure to post when you come up with the name of the nominee that demonstrates that what i said was "manifestly untrue." Please include a supportive link. I look forward to it.

[The Valley Below]

67. Liberalism isn't measure by marginal tax rates, or

Dwight Eisenhower would be more "liberal" than JFK.

Or maybe you'll be slamming JFK along with Obama and Clinton?

Accusing Democrats of running from our liberal ideas if pure BS.

Have a nice life.

[Gore1FL]

69. So you don't have an example.

So not only do you respond, but you try to move the goal posts.

Identifying problems is not in and of itself a problem. Pretending problems don't exist is quite another.Show your work. What nominee ran on returning to pre-Reaganomics, or admit that what aid was right. Only one of those things is possible.

If you would prefer to live in the pretend in fairies, pink dragons, and butterscotch falls, that's fine, but leave me the fuck out of it, and don't pretend my decades as a liberal Democrat somehow makes me less of one because of it.

[The Valley Below]

70. I'm not playing your game.

You keep slandering liberal Democrats as if we are either like the Nixon-era Republicans or like Ronald Reagan, and that is damn off-putting to read on a forum for Democratic Party loyalists. Are you sure you are in the right place?

"Fairies, pink dragons, and butterscotch falls" are your constructions alone. Live with your own fantasies.

Leave me the hell out of it.

[Gore1FL]

71. "my game" of backing up statements with links? I'm sorry you can't back up post 65.

You really shouldn't get upset with me for calling you on it.

And pretending that I am some sort of a bad Democrat for offering over 35 years of voting experience and observation while doing so kind of makes even less credible.

Until you can back up your statements, kindly bugger off.

[The Valley Below]

72. Your "game" seems to be attacking every Democrat since 1984 as Republicans.

You are the one getting called out there. You should really quit smearing my party.

See ya!

[Gore1FL]

73. No. If you read my posts there was no attacking.

I said that we haven't had a nominee since Walter Mondale who opposed Reaganomics. You said otherwise but cannot produce an example.

Here is a list to choose From:

Mike Dukakis
Bill Clinton
Al Gore
John Kerry
Barack Obama
Hillary Clinton

Pick one. then provide a link. If you cannot, then I am pointing out reality. That's not attacking.


Attacking is what yo are doing to me by smearing me with some alleged attack on what is also, my party.

1> Back up your posts.
2> Quit suggesting that I am somehow less of a Democrat that you.
3> Stop responding if you cannot back up your statements. If you do respond do not do so with personal assaults, especially in the absence of backing up your statements.

Why you insist on escalating with me is unclear. Hours ago I asked you to quit bothering me. I ask it again.

[The Valley Below]

74. Baloney. You keep saying that the Democratic Party "is more the 1970s GOP than it is liberal."

That is a damned lie. Stop smearing our party. Stop saying we are like Nixon and Reagan. And stop harassing me with personal attacks.

Good bye!

[Gore1FL]

77. I made the claim. I produced evidence.

Since then you've been calling me names and not backing up your claims.

It's pretty clear at this point that I have rhetorically killed you. I gave you a way out long ago when I asked you so politely to quit annoying me.

You insisted on digging yourself deeper. I gave you a way out when I again politely asked you to stop.

You continued. But adhomenem attacked took precedent.

I ask you again to quit.

One thing to think about before you continue the failed strategy you are pursuing is how much of this time you could have spent swaying this undecided voter for Biden rather than spending it trying to make this undecided voter's DU experience miserable. It's just something to think about.

[The Valley Below]

84. Stop accusing every Democrat since 1984 of being like Republicans.

It is an insult and the repeated false charges are abusive.

Please stop responding to me. I want nothing to do with your game of attacking our leaders with bogus charges.

This is a pro-Democratic website.

[Gore1FL]

86. Perhaps you are too busy attacking me to read my posts or to document your assertions.

In any case, I am not attacking Dem leaders by pointing out their stated policy positions.

When users accuse other users at DU of being somehow less of a Democrat it makes DU suck. Please stop doing it.

As far as "Please stop responding to me," my requests for the same are queued far ahead of yours and I promise I will give your request the same amount of respect and accedence as you have given mine.

If you do decide to post again, either provide the requested link to back your argument or admit you are wrong. Also, please refrain from attacking me or any other DUer in the process. Thanks in advance.

[The Valley Below]

87. You are the person who keeps comparing today's Democrats to Nixon-era Republicans and

to Ronald Reagan. Reading that here on DU is what sucks.

Please stop responding to my posts and please stop slamming every Democratic nominee our party has supported since 1984.

[Gore1FL]

88. No. I said not one nominee since Mondale actively campaigned against Reaganomics.

You said I was wrong (I wasn't). You are unable to back your claim. Rather than backing off, you have decided to continually attack me for things I didn't do. This sort of behavior makes DU suck.

Please back up your statements, admit you are wrong, or stop bothering me with child-like denials and accusations. If you chose to keep this up your attacks, I will continue with posts defending myself. While this will stop you from harassing other users with false accusations and unsupported arguments, I would simply prefer you not harass anyone.

[The Valley Below]

89. No, you said The Democratic Party is "more the 1970s GOP than it is liberal."

Please stop. I'm not interested in being harassed you.

Good bye.

[Gore1FL]

90. The Democratic and Republican parties have both moved to the right in my lifetime.

Does it bother you more that it's true or that I pointed it out? It bothers me that it's true. I think we should be more liberal and elect more liberal candidates and inspire our base with our ideals rather than reaching out to the people who can't quite decide if they would prefer healthcare or to wave confederate flags.

I look forward to your links proving me wrong. I also look forward to you not making DU suck by continuing an argument you lost a day ago.

Instead of attacking me, please provide debate-worthy arguments and proof next time.

[The Valley Below]

91. The Democratic party has NOT MOVED to the right.

Please stop bombarding me with attacks on the Democratic party, our past nominees, and our Democratic presidents.

I am not interested in reading them and I've repeatedly asked you to stop.

This is a pro-Democratic Party website.

[Gore1FL]

92. Please refrain from attacks and provide backup for your arguments.

Alternatively, you may also stop trying to continue the argument you lost yesterday.

I've asked you to stop long before. I am giving you the equal respect you gave me to my request.

[BannonsLiver]

49. I don't know, why don't you tell us?

[Sloumeau]

7. Here are links that support this idea in general...

...although some might quibble with the 39 out of 41 number:

Progressive Democrats running in competitive House districts had a bad night on Tuesday
[link:https://www.vox.com/2018/11/7/18071700/progressive-democrats-house-midterm-elections-2018|]

Moderate Democrats Fared Best in 2018 - The New York Times
[link:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/10/upshot/2020-North-Carolina-moderate-democrats.html|]

Moderation still won in the midterms – even if moderate Republicans didn’t
[link:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/20/moderate-republican-midterm-losses-house|]

The story of the midterms is the triumph of the moderates – on both sides
[link:https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/11/09/the-story-of-the-midterms-is-the-triumph-of-the-moderates-on-both-sides/|]

Also, I will post something from Thirdway.com, even though far too often they seem to advocate "Republican-lite" positions that make me sick. Once in a while, they post something that is actually accurate:

The 2018 Midterms: A Blueprint for Democrats in 2020
[link:https://www.thirdway.org/one-pager/the-2018-midterms-a-blueprint-for-democrats-in-2020|]

[redstatebluegirl]

8. She is like BS it is all about her, nobody else matters.

[Bradical79]

56. That's an outright lie

[madville]

15. Purity is all that matters to them

They gladly give up the majority to see moderate Democrats get purged.

[Thekaspervote]

80. Indeed!! Nose meet face... please don't bite me off!!

[George II]

27. And while she rails about "billionaire" big donations to other candidates, she accepts them herself.

[Cha]

34. That's what I've been saying.

[LiberalFighter]

35. Which was one key point in the Speaker's careful decisions regarding impeachment.

[Gore1FL]

42. Define moderate

Someone here was defining Bloomberg as a liberal on another thread a few weeks ago. I am eager to see the yardstick and the data.

Thanks.

[David__77]

68. It's all relative to time and place.

One person’s moderate is another persons radical. I don’t care too much about those labels.

[Hortensis]

55. That's HER indictment of us: We should throw them all back,

PLUS/INCLUDING almost all of nearly 200 non-radical members of the liberal caucuses in the house who aren't about to abandon their ideals and goals to get out of her way.

[demosincebirth]

78. That's how we dems win elections. Let's not deviate.

[Cha]

93. Yeah, check it out.