Trump's MAGA supporters and Twitter Bernie Bros have this ugly tactic in common

[lapucelle]

Time and again, we see how backlash on social media is used to bully people into submission and silence criticism. For writers and commentators like me, sometimes we have to weigh whether or not it’s even worth writing something that could incur the wrath of a political figure’s devout following.

The backlash is important because it gives us insights into the nature of the political debate on social media — who has power, and how that power is wielded. And it’s also important to talk about the voices who may be keeping silent — and why.

snip==================================================================================

This hyper-vocal faction of Sanders supporters — colloquially known as “Bernie Bros” — never went away after the 2016 presidential election. In my personal experience, these bros are almost overwhelmingly white men. And they share, like Trump's ardent supporters, a desire to “put me in my place.”

snip==================================================================================

Bernie Twitter operates under the self-righteous guise of being the true progressives of the internet. This smugness distinguishes their tweets. But there’s nothing progressive about attacking members of your own party who may have reservations about the presidential candidate you’re supporting. There’s also nothing progressive about having so little tolerance for different opinions that even the hint of opposition is enough to incite a virtual mob, as I and even John Legend have discovered firsthand.

snip==================================================================================

It should concern Democrats who have spent the past four years lamenting Trump’s deteriorating effect on political discourse that the supporters of a major liberal presidential candidate conduct themselves with such intolerance. And as Trump’s supporters have shown us already, violent rhetoric has ripple effects.

Certainly, Sanders hasn’t encouraged the ugliness that his supporters display and I am confident they do not reflect his politics or the kind of discourse he wants as the would-be standard bearer for the Democratic Party. Giving him that benefit of the doubt, he needs to vehemently denounce the tactics being deployed on his behalf, in his name, in real time. Calling for civility and respectful dialogue requires more than the occasional comment, it will take vigilant admonition.

Look, I’m not pretending that Twitter isn’t a dumpster fire. But I will say that as a person of color, I have never been attacked in such a heinous way by the supporters of former Vice President Joe Biden, Sen. Amy Klobuchar or former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg.

Candidates must set a standard of conduct for their supporters, and if it’s not met, it must be denounced. Trump is unwilling to do this, but Democrats shouldn’t sink to the same sub-basemen.

snip=================================================================================

Kurt Bardella is an NBC News THINK contributor and served as the spokesperson and senior adviser for the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee from 2009 to 2013.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-maga-supporters-twitter-bernie-bros-have-ugly-tactic-ncna1117901

[oldsoftie]

1. I'm glad to see this problem being acknowledged.

Too many people want to ignore the fact that the Left side has bad apples that do the same shit that the Right does

[lapucelle]

2. And Bardella is being attacked on twitter over it as we speak. N/T

[KPN]

32. That is hardly surprising since he very clearly

likened Bernie Sanders’ supporters to Magats.

[Bev54]

67. Well they are

I have seen it here time and time again.

[KPN]

146. Seen what time and time again here?

[Bev54]

158. Bernie supporters

act like MAGAts

[oldsoftie]

98. Which is the whole POINT

[ehrnst]

143. I know, right? (nt)

[Blue_true]

141. With all respect to DU Sanders supporters, who seem to be decent,

from what I have seen of them (secondhand, I admit, because I won't go on Twitter or Facebook), some of the very hardcore Sanders supporters, the ones that have no intention of voting for a democrat, do behave a lot like MAGATS.

[Gothmog]

147. Who is surprised by this??

sanders supporters do these attacks all of the time

[JonLP24]

7. This false equivalency is bullshit

I'm not the same as a racist Trump supporter. Fuck NBC and anyone that compares us to Trump supporters.

[handmade34]

20. sometimes you can't see

what you're closest to




the article isn't about every Sanders supporter, only them generally...

[JonLP24]

23. I opposed SB 1070, pushed Obama

On marriage equality. I support taxes on the wealthy and regulations for big business.

There are so many things that make us different than Trump supporters. I live in Arizona and have butted heads many times with racist Republicans over the years.

[handmade34]

74. Bernie is my Senator

he is a good Senator and my ideology is akin to his...

you don't need to justify yourself to me or anyone here ... I know many good people who support Bernie and all he stands for (and I have a daughter in Arizona and have done quite a bit of work in the state... I know Arizona... although I wouldn't mind heading into the Grand Canyon again )

I do though, see something happening around Bernie that is not good for our Country right now and there are many Bernie supporters that are not understanding the larger picture ...Kurt Bardella's essay is pretty good

[Tumbulu]

127. Very well said, thank you nt

[onetexan]

46. +1 K&R

Bardella used to work for Breitbart, and when it finally hit him he was also the target of the racism he flipped, more so to save his hide and to market himself to the networks for commentating positions. While i don't agree with alot of what he says, in this case i do agree with him. Bernie Bros or whatever name they go by are no different than the MAGAt white males when they act in bullying ways. A clear sign of insecurity to me. As a candidate BS has an obligation to control the narrative his supporters put out. IMO he should never have been allowed to run under the Dem ticket given he is not one, but we'll save that discussion for another day.

[Gothmog]

35. Was it okay for sanders supporters to boo John Lewis, Elijah Cummings and Stacy Abrams ?

I saw the conduct of sanders supporters at the national convention and this article hits home with me

[George II]

37. It's talking about the tactics of some of his supporters and many of his staffers....

....on twitter.

If you've read some of the stuff on twitter, it's malicious and destructive.

[Cha]

168. Exactly.

[myohmy2]

41. +1

"Fuck NBC and anyone that compares us to Trump supporters."

...

[cab67]

54. You're not, but some are.

I've encountered them.

Actually, I think a better comparison is between the "Bernie Bros" and the core of Ron Paul's supporters. It was all about the candidate. No other candidate reached the level of purity and wisdom of Ron Paul, to the point that they were willing to disrupt their own party's local conventions and go for a third-party candidate when Paul didn't win.

[airmid]

73. Yep...being a Bernie supporter and a twitter user I don't harass. I have however

outed several so called MAGA hat wearers who also had several accounts acting like so-called Bernie Bro’s who later turned out to be Russians. I am not taking the bait here. I almost never post in this forum because of the vitriol. Once again the Russians are dividing us to get a Trump win. Am I voting and working for Bernie in the Primary. You can count on it. But I also plan to do the same for WHOEVER the nominee is. I refrain from downing any of the candidates...period.

[oldsoftie]

99. If you do what is described in the story, then yes, you are.

But i would doubt you do, or you probably wouldnt be HERE

[ehrnst]

144. Talking about actual, observable behavior is not "bullshit."

Does that kind of behavior offend you or not?

Does it matter who it's on behalf of?

[NYMinute]

153. It was not about racism

It was about blind devotion, ignoring reality and intolerance of opposing viewpoints.

[NYMinute]

3. There are way more similarities that go beyond the one in the article

I can name 7 just off the top of my head

[lapucelle]

5. I'm glad when anyone calls out the toxic predatory culture of some twitter users. N/T

[mikeysnot]

43. Please present 7 with links.

So we can see for ourselves.

[NYMinute]

97. Links?

Do you want links for every one of my thoughts and opinions?

[mikeysnot]

110. So you got nothing off the top of your head.

just your unsubstantiated opinion.

That's what I thought.

[NYMinute]

111. My erudite opinion and analysis

worth wayyy more than intercept, jacobin or commondreams links

[mikeysnot]

171. swing and aaaaa

miss.

[Gothmog]

148. There are indeed a great deal more similarities than are set forth in this article

[Cha]

159. This thread needs a kick!

[Docreed2003]

4. When any candidate is actively employing surrogates

Who seem to incessantly make social media posts whose intent is to stoke resentment and anger towards people who would otherwise be allies, thus fueling these types of attacks, that to me speaks volumes about that candidate, whether they choose to comment on their surrogates or not.

[lapucelle]

8. All candidates need to explicitly repudiate these tactics.

It's truly problematic when any candidate employs attack dogs as their surrogates.

[Docreed2003]

13. Agree completely

[JonLP24]

6. I think comparing us to Trump supporters is bullshit

I have been the same person as I have always been but never been attacked like this just for supporting Sanders. I'm also an Obama supporter. I'm not one of those either that left the Democrats for Trump like Obama Trump counties.

I also have strong anti racist & furthest thing from a Xenophobic especially when it comes to Muslims. That is the biggest difference between me & Trump supporters.

I will be the same person long after all of this too.

[lapucelle]

11. Bardella is talking about a specific type of toxic twitter bully, not Sanders supporters

or Sanders himself.

[JonLP24]

16. I have very few deleted posts in my entire 8 years

I try my best to be on my best behavior. There are other candidates supporters that are a lot more toxic but you don't see them smeared by the National press.

All this does is hurt my feelings as there are struggling people that support Sanders that aren't as privileged as some of these columnists or commentators ripping us.

[lapucelle]

31. The column is about a twitter mob fueled by their own toxic culture, not Sanders supporters. N/T

[sweetloukillbot]

89. Why does this remind me of Hillary saying some Trump supporters were deplorable

And then ALL Trumps supporters got offended at being called deplorable. If it doesn’t apply, it’s not about you, but if you take offense at garbage people being called garbage...

[lark]

12. Did you vote for Hillary?

Of course, that's not for me to know, but if you didn't - sorry dude - you are indeed a Bernie Bro. and part of the issue. If you voted for Hlllary, you support Democrats and absolutely not part of the problem.

[JonLP24]

14. Yes I voted for Hillary Clinton

I object to the term Bernie Bro as a smear.

[lark]

22. When they don't support Democrats and helped drumpf win - what should they be called?

I'm not talking about folks like you and my friends in VA and CA who are Bernie supporters but will vote for whoever wins the Democratic nomination - I'm talking about people like his personally chosen top campaign managers, all of whom didn't vote for Hillary and who disdain Democrats and won't vote for the eventual nominee, if it's not Bernie. Why did Bernie choose these folks when they personally helped the big evil win? I'm sure you can see how this is a huge problem.

[JonLP24]

26. I have a problem with Clinton staffers like Neera Tanden

If this is about a left - center divide they should focus on that.

I don't have a problem a campaign against candidates. I have a problem with a campaign against supporters.

[lark]

33. If someone won't vote for Democrats, they are not our friend in the end and are part of the enemy.

If someone is not on our side and votes against the Democratic nominee, they are on the side of the enemy. Period.the.end.

Vote blue no matter who is the only thing that matters - drumpf is an existential threat.

[lapucelle]

44. Neera Tanden isn't a "Clinton staffer". She has no role at Onward Together

the organization Hillary Clinton and Howard Dean founded in 2017. Neera Tanden is the president and chief executive officer of the Center for American Progress.

[George II]

108. The fact that you bring up Neera Tanden is interesting. First....

...she's not a Clinton staffer. But beyond that, she's been subjected to exactly what Bardella's talking about.

Sanders supporters (not Sanders himself) have been harassing her relentlessly, outed her, and made her life miserable on twitter. They've mass-reported tweets of hers. Some of the tweets to her have been downright vile.

[JonLP24]

109. I bring her up because she often criticizes the Sanders wing

I thought she worked for Clinton. I do know she punched Bernie's current campaign manager because he asked Clinton a question about the Iraq war in 2008.

I don't doubt a few trolls respond to her and by troll I mean someone that goes beyond a simple disagreement but that is true of every public figure.

Link to tweet

Peter Daou often mentions the hate he got from Bernie haters because he endorsed Bernie Sanders which is ironic because he used to smear him on Twitter.

[Cha]

135. Too BAD.. I love Neera Tanden!

[Gothmog]

149. I really like Neera Tanden and agree with her

Link to tweet

[KPN]

39. Wait. Some clarification please. Who specifically didn't vote for Clinton

and how do you know? What State did they vote in?

[lark]

42. Of course I don't know who voted for whom, except for their telling us.

Nina Turner said she voted for Stein.

[KPN]

64. So you made a totally unsubstantiated statement of "fact".

Thanks for the clarification.

[lark]

66. It's been supported in many polls.

And his top manager told us this, that they didn't vote for the Democratic nominee, Hillary - which you totally are ignoring.

[progressoid]

96. That bullshit is tiresome.

The same thing happened to Obama too - Democrats ended up voting for the Republican nominee. But we don't hear about them because Obama won.

Wapo said 12 % of Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Compare that with 2008 when 17 % of Clinton supporters voted for McCain.

Of course if Obama had lost in '08 we would likely have been blaming the Clinton supporters who defected. And that would be pointless as well.

A more important caveat, perhaps, is that other statistics suggest that this level of "defection" isn't all that out of the ordinary. Believing that all those Sanders voters somehow should have been expected to not vote for Trump may be to misunderstand how primary voters behave.

For example, Schaffner tells NPR that around 12 percent of Republican primary voters (including 34 percent of Ohio Gov. John Kasich voters and 11 percent of Florida Sen. Marco Rubio voters) ended up voting for Clinton. And according to one 2008 study, around 25 percent of Clinton primary voters in that election ended up voting for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., in the general. (In addition, the data showed 13 percent of McCain primary voters ended up voting for Obama, and 9 percent of Obama voters ended up voting for McCain — perhaps signaling something that swayed voters between primaries and the general election, or some amount of error in the data, or both.)

For whatever reasons, people switch their vote to their opposition. It's happened before and it will happen again.

[lapucelle]

106. Yes, indeed it does get tiresome.

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[progressoid]

120. 25 percent?! Shocking.

While much was made of the so-called Bernie-or-bust phenomenon, the number of Sanders supporters who crossed party lines to vote for Trump in 2016 may not be that unusual. A 2010 study in Public Opinion Quarterly found that in the 2008 election 25 percent of those who voted for Clinton in the Democratic primary ended up voting for Republican John McCain, rather than Barack Obama, in the general election.
https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-2016-election-654320

From the study:

Although we clearly see lower levels of support for Obama among those not voting for him in the primary, there is a gradual uptick in support for Obama among Clinton supporters as we get closer to election day. So, although this group initially might have been hesitant to support the onetime rival of their preferred candidate, they were increasingly likely to come home as the campaign progressed, with the sharpest uptick in support coming shortly after Clinton endorsed her former rival. Although based on a very small number of voters (36 cases), those voting for other Democratic candidates (mainly John Edwards) were the least likely to rally behind Obama.

Of course, what ultimately matters is if and how these individuals actually voted. Table 2 presents the most direct comparison of primary vote choice to general election vote choice. Overall, just over three-fourths of Democratic primary voters cast their general election ballots for Obama. But this average masks tremendous variation across primary vote choice. Ultimately 25 per-cent of these Clinton primary voters cast a ballot for McCain in the general election. Just five percent of them supported neither of the major party candidates—either staying home or voting for a third-party candidate—an abstention rate similar to primary voters who supported Obama, McCain, or other Republicans. Thus, in contrast to previous research (e.g.,Southwell1986), the voters supporting the losing candidate in the 2008 primary did not appear to be demobilized as a result of the loss. Pierce (2003)reached a similar conclusion in his analysis of thwarted voters in the 1972–1996 presidential elections.

12. This is different from exit poll results, which report only 16 percent of Clinton supporters voting for McCain versus 83 percent for Obama. One possible explanation for the discrepancy is that the exit poll question was asked only to Democrats and was based on whom they wanted to win the primary, not on whether they actually voted in the nomination contest. Moreover, because the question is asked after the general election, there may be over-reporting of support for the winning candidate (Atkeson 1999)

[lapucelle]

130. Bernie Sanders Voters Helped Trump Win and Here's Proof

is the title of the Newsweek article you link to. That claim is supported by the data presented: the number of Sanders to Trump voters in three battleground states exceeded Trump's margin of victory.

Similarly, in the light of what the data show, the insistence by some that the 2016 general election defection rate was only12% is problematic at best.

Newsweek's main point seems valid on its face, but it's important to note the conflation of numbers and percentages:

While much was made of the so-called Bernie-or-bust phenomenon, the number of Sanders supporters who crossed party lines to vote for Trump in 2016 may not be that unusual.

*****************************************************************************************************

As for the 2010 study cited by Newsweek, while its an interesting approach, there may have been issues with the sample.

Panel Conditioning and Attrition in the AP-Yahoo! News Election Panel Study

This paper examines the potential for attrition bias and panel conditioning in a longitudinal online election panel survey. The 2008 Associated Press-Yahoo! News Poll was conducted by Knowledge Networks with contributions from political scientists at Harvard University and Stanford University.

snip================================================

Regarding panel attrition, the rare (i.e., non-whites, adults ages 18 to 29, or less than high school education) and non-rare respondent groups were attriting from the panel at the same rate during the first four waves, probably due to a specific incentive system put in place for the rare respondents. Undecided Republicans were more likely to quit the panel during the first four waves than Republicans who chose John McCain. In subsequent waves, late-participating respondents were more likely to drop from the study than early respondents in both rare and non-rare groups.

http://www.asasrms.org/Proceedings/y2009/Files/400033.pdf

[squirecam]

69. Sarandon did too

Nt

[lapucelle]

45. These people in these states didn't vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election.

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

49. sanders supporters helped to elect trump

sanders supporters either voted for trump, voted for a third party which was a vote for trump or stayed home

Link to tweet

[KPN]

68. That's not what I was asking. But since you

offered this, what is the source for that data?

Not that it’s all that important to me. Blaming a relative handful of past voters for current situations is a fool’s errand in my view. It misses the point entirely.

[lapucelle]

80. Here you go.

https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/author/brian-f-schaffner

[Cha]

163. Mahalo!

[lapucelle]

164. ...

[herding cats]

88. It's from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study.

Here's a link to the actual data: https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi%3A10.7910/DVN/GDF6Z0

Here's an article from when it was released which is relevant to the tweet above.

Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people. (For perspective, a run-of-the-mill survey measuring Trump's job approval right now has a sample of 800 to 1,500.)

Political science professor Brian Schaffner of University of Massachusetts, Amherst tweeted the data on Wednesday.

Schaffner's numbers show that after a bitter Democratic primary, more than 1 in 10 of those who voted in the primaries for the very progressive Sanders ended up voting for the Republican in the general election, rather than for the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton.

What drove those voters to Trump? Schaffner dug into that, as well. What it wasn't was trade, an issue where Sanders was closer to Trump's philosophy than Clinton's. At least, the issue of trade didn't seem to have that much of an impact.

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

[Gothmog]

150. This is the best source of information on this topic

[questionseverything]

154. it says 12 percent...which is less than the hc voters deflecting from obama

[Gothmog]

156. Read the material posted

You have to include sanders supporters who voted third party and who stayed home

[lapucelle]

105. Here's a further link to the study.

https://dataverse.harvard.edu/file.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.7910/DVN/GDF6Z0/RK0ONG&version=4.0

[yaesu]

82. what treads like this do is help tRump get reelected, sad, very sad. nt

[MH1]

94. Sounds like he isn't talking about you. Do you call yourself a "Bernie Bro"?

He seems to be referring to a specific subculture that labels itself the "Bernie Bros".

Just because you are a supporter of Bernie Sanders, doesn't make you part of every subculture of his supporters, and sure doesn't automatically make you a supporter of the most toxic and cultish subculture that the article is talking about.

[AllyCat]

9. It's odd for me that the 4 people I know who fall into this category are Bernie sisses.

3 voted for Mango Mussolini and the 4th for Jill Stein. Two behave like this article states. All will vote exactly the same as 2016

[JonLP24]

10. Bernie Bro has always been innaccurate

He won younger women in 2016 and has more small donations from women than any other candidate. Whenever I see Bernie Bro still being used that person loses credibility imho.

Plus I never heard the word bro so much since I was in jail (for cannabis possession).

[AllyCat]

17. I don't feel this is targeting anyone that supports Sanders.

It sucks to feel singled out like that and it is inappropriate. My take on this is the people who support Sanders and just attack anyone who is even slightly critical of the Senator. They are more vocal and present on Twitter and FB than other candidates’ supporters, but this article saying they don’t attack folks who disagree with them...that is false.

[lapucelle]

19. Bardella makes it clear that there is a difference between Sanders supporters in general

and the twitter mob he is writing about.

As for other your claims, you might want to check your data and define "young" which is a relative term.

[Cha]

142. It was started for a reason.

[bluedigger]

15. Also, both drank milk at early age.

I can never get enough of these links between Bernie and Trump supporters.

[lapucelle]

21. The piece is not about Sanders supporters.

It's about a group of people who use mob tactics and intimidation on twitter.

[Farmer-Rick]

18. That is hyperbole and minimizes the crimes of real Trump supporters

False equivalancy is used here in order to get Democrats attacking each other.

In no way have your so called Bernie Bros advocated Nazi propaganda and provoked attacks on people. To claim they are alike is to minimize the real crimes being committed.

But this thread is not about real comparison. It seems to be designed as a way for Democrats to attack each other and promote what Traitor Trump supporters really want. They want a divided Democratic party like last time.

[lapucelle]

27. Anyone who engaged in bullying, intimidation, and "shaming" tactics during the 2016 general election

in an effort to defeat the Democratic nominee deserves to be called out.

These people weren't Democrats.

[redqueen]

28. This, exactly. nt

[NJCher]

24. why is it OK to run down my candidate nearly every day on this forum?

This is an obvious effort to run out the Bernie supporters. I don't know why people think dissing another person's candidate is going to result in votes for their own. It doesn't. It only alienates.

No one likes a scold and that's what this post does.

[lapucelle]

29. No one is running down your candidate.

Certainly, Sanders hasn’t encouraged the ugliness that his supporters display and I am confident they do not reflect his politics or the kind of discourse he wants as the would-be standard bearer for the Democratic Party. Giving him that benefit of the doubt, he needs to vehemently denounce the tactics being deployed on his behalf, in his name, in real time. Calling for civility and respectful dialogue requires more than the occasional comment, it will take vigilant admonition.

Bardella's piece is calling out the same toxic twitter bullies who your candidate has repudiated.

[melman]

58. Good question

What's even more galling is they pretend they're not doing it.

[MrsCoffee]

71. No one likes a scold?

SING IT!

Oh the irony.....

[NJCher]

112. that's your version

You just keep repeating it and repeating it--most of the time with no links or proof whatsoever--and you think it makes it true. Fine, do what you what, but be aware that people are aware that repetition is a tactic. It mystifies me as to what you think you're going to get out of this.

And it is not OK to come here every day and trash my candidate. You will not win me or anyone else over with that tactic.

[MrsCoffee]

118. The finger wagging trashing of my party isn't winning any many people over.

Every candidate running faces criticism. Bernie is going to be vetted this time. Get over it.

[NJCher]

134. let me break the news to you gently

The corporate forces have been after Bernie for a long time. What you've got now is all you're ever going to have. Now you get over it.

[Cha]

136. Let us break it to you.. you are Not "breaking"

anything to us about BS.. we know all about him.

[MrsCoffee]

145. Lol.

I can't help but laugh at the Bernie is the only one who can save us routine. He's had 35 years to do that and the only excuse for not having done so is conspiracy theories. The corporate forces are after him. The establishment forces are after him. The media is after him...or ignoring him, depending on what day it is in Bernie land.

Trust me, I'm over it.

[Cha]

138. That's right, MrsCoffee.. BS is getting "Vetted"..

and I for one am Grateful

[scipan]

140. I suggest that what you are doing, dissing my

Candidate, is not in the best interests of our eventual nominee. The divisiveness you are engendering on this thread only helps Trump. You need us and we need you.

[Fla Dem]

25. Hits the nail on the head. Candidate says my hands are clean, while surrogates and followers

use inflammatory rhetoric to slander and criticize Democratic opponents. Candidate does nothing to stop them.

[Beakybird]

34. And you summarized it perfectly.

I think that by hiring a Jill Stein supporter as spokeswoman, you're heart isn't in the right place.
I see Sanders as very rigid. If he is a true progressive, he should drop out and support Warren, who is every bit as progressive, younger, smarter, more, energetic, healthier, and more articulate.

[Thekaspervote]

79. This!! so now the candidate suffers in polls for that negativity.

[uponit7771]

139. +1

[Gothmog]

30. I saw the horrible conduct of sanders supporters up close at the national convention

This piece hits home with me. The conduct of sanders supporters at the national convention really hit home to me. I worked hard to be a delegate of the national convention. As part of the process, I and every other delegate swore an oath in the application to be a delegate to support the nominee on the party. All delegates including pledged delegates are free to change their vote and vote for anyone at the National Convention. For that reason, each and every candidate has absolute approval rights over their national convention delegates and each regular campaign carefully vets their national delegates. I helped to vet delegates and I know that I was vetted.

At the convention, Clinton delegates were asked to be nice to sanders delegates and to ignore their bad conduct. There was some truly horrible conduct. I was screamed at by sanders delegates and was told that I was a bad Jew for not supporting sanders. That was a waste of time in that yelling at a lawyer does not work in the real world. I am still upset that sanders delegates decided to curse at my youngest daughter (who was my guest and was at the convention for the first night) and call her the c-word for not agreeing to get me to change my vote.

Again, the above article hit home with me

[empedocles]

40. Folk here at DU have polite tendencies to separate Bernie 'Bros', 'fans', key staffers,

from the actual Bernie Sanders who continues to promote all these crappers and their crap.

[Gothmog]

47. A candidate's vetted delegates to the national convention represent the candidate and campaign

The Clinton campaign reminded her delegates that our conduct reflected on her and the campaign. sanders national convention delegates represent sanders and his campaign

[NCProgressive]

36. My way or highway and I'm entitled to it

This is not how politics works. Politics is a game of compromises so everyone gets about half of what they want.

This also creates a doctrine of incremental change for the better over time so that the society gets educated and reforms.

Wanting everything at once is what fascist parties do. "Over everyone's dead body" is not only their attitude but they actually get pleasure from denying other viewpoints their say and their wants.

The meme comes in the form of "we need radical change" (translation: I want what I want and anyone opposing be damned.)

or "I am not happy with the status quo" (translation: All of you in a civilized discourse seeking change are stupid)

or "We need a revolution" (translation: We need to be militant and extremists using whatever means necessary to destroy people with other points of view.)

This problem originates with the leaders and the gullible devotees fall for it. Look at Trump supporters as an example and draw your own comparisons.

To make gullible devotees, the first thing done by these Machiavellian leaders is to make them feel deprived "look, you don't have what all those others have" - this generates anger and anger drives militancy. Trump supporters feel deprived that immigrants have jobs, African Americans are advancing and Asians do well in school all because of the government policies. The sense of deprivation may be different but the twitter bros also express it. We see it on DU as well.

Thanks for posting lapucelle.

[NurseJackie]

53. "My way or highway and I'm entitled to it" --- My abusive ex-husband and tormentor....

My way or highway and I'm entitled to it

My abusive ex-husband and tormentor had that philosophy. He's dead now. Good.

Wanting everything at once is what fascist parties do.

Thank you for explaining it that way. You're exactly right about that.

or "We need a revolution" (translation: We need to be militant and extremists using whatever means necessary to destroy people with other points of view.)

I'm so sick of hearing this "revolution" shit. People who believe such things are living in a fantasy world and have no idea how politics actually works. Sure, I get that they're frustrated (and impatient) but mature voters understand that you don't always get your way, that compromise is necessary, and that progress takes time.

I'll never understand why some voters (and some politicians) take such great personal pride in their "no compromise... all-or-nothing" attitude. They are actually PLEASED to make ZERO progress and to not even get a single slice of bread (forget the proverbial "half a loaf" thing) and sadly, what appears to be most important to the most vain and egotistical are the "bragging rights" of standing one's ground and not giving an inch. It's sad to see how many want to make it about themselves, or judging others to be less than themselves, rather than focusing instead on what's best for the most vulnerable among us and what will provide some benefit immediately.

In the real world, compromise is necessary. We can only move forward and make progress if we're able to find common ground and mutually shared interests. Look closely and it's easy to see that "progress" is the root of "progressive". People seem to forget that slow progress IS STILL PROGRESS! Why give that up? Why leave it on the table? Why walk away from it?

The answer of: "pride and vanity" (and stubbornness) often explains why.

[NCProgressive]

100. What is sad is that the leaders and promoters of the "revolution"

are well off and they can gamble on getting nothing in the "all or nothing" bet.

They're oblivious to the fact thattheir rank-and-file cannot afford to get "nothing" and would be better off with "something."

It is easy when one owns three mansions to tell the hungry people, "starve just a little bit longer, food is on the way", knowing full well that they cannot deliver the food even if the "revolution" succeeds.

[mcar]

38. Kick

[Bear Creek]

48. I see

Biden supporters do this as well. As soon as anyone brings up the bad vote choices he made they start in on Sanders or Warren. Sanders is not Trump and the democrats who support him are not Trump supporters. These divisive posts are actually helping Trump. They have the feeling of the Russian crap of 2016. Quit with the bernie bros by the way I know a lot of women who support him. I have seen Biden supporters call Sanders, Karl Marx so they are not innocent themselves.

[lapucelle]

52. If you have experienced or seen systematic cyberbullying by

Biden supporters on social media, maybe you can contact Bardella and ask him to write a piece about it.

[BeyondGeography]

50. The funny/sad thing about all that is Bernie is betting on public opinion

to get his policies through Congress. Meantime, a fair chunk of his base, certainly when you’re talking about his online supporters, constantly alienate Democrats without whom anything resembling success will be impossible.

[NCProgressive]

51. Sanders himself attacks the Democratic party every chance he gets nt

[Gothmog]

60. I have questions about sanders voter revolution concept which was rejected by the NYT

Link to tweet

Like the NYT, I have questions about this voter revolution concept. I have asked sanders supporters to explain this concept to me and so far no one seems to know how this voter revolution will work in the real world https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=430371

Gothmog (78,308 posts)
64. Exactly how does sanders voter revolution work in the real world?

It is my understanding that even sanders has acknowledged that he cannot adopt his platform unless he holds rallies and this voter revolution occurs. Is this correct? How does this voter revolution work in the real world? Again as I understand this concept, so many new voters will rise up and force the GOP to be reasonable. Is this correct? How many new voters does it take to accomplish this goal and where are these voters? How will these new voters force the GOP to be reasonable when so many GOP officeholders are in gerrymandered districts? Will these new voters move to these districts in time to vote for sanders’ platform? If these new voters are real, then why are theses new voters not showing up in the polls? New voters in such large numbers so as to cause the GOP to be reasonable should show up in polling. Are these new voters waiting for something? If these new voters really exist in the real world, why has sanders not used these new voters to get some meaningful legislation passed?

I look forward to answers to these questions

sanders interview with the NYT may have gone better if he had explained how this revolution would work in the real world. I am still curious

[BeyondGeography]

63. He said he'd be hopping on AF1 a lot for rallies

A questioner said that reminded him of Trump. The interview pretty much went downhill from there.

[Gothmog]

72. As I understand, sanders cannot get his platform adopted without this revolution

This seems to be a key part of the sanders campaign. There needs to be an explanation on how this voter revolution will work if sanders want to be treated as a serious candidate

[Gothmog]

170. Why has sanders not us his voter revolution to rally support for impeachment

Link to tweet

?

[Ragrum]

55. This and so many others seem like PUTIN Manipulation, be it Brexit and Dem Fake fighting

PUTIN TROLLS everywhere

[cab67]

56. A better comparison is to Ron Paul's supporters.

Paul had a core of supporters who treated the campaign more like a cult. No other candidate in their party was worthy of Paul's wisdom and purity. Paul's loss in the primaries wasn't acceptable, and so they would disrupt state Republican conventions and vote for Libertarian Party candidates rather than deal with reality.

The core of Sanders supporters who act like this may be small, but it's loud enough to cause problems for everyone.

[Mickju]

57. I have a real fear that we are going to lose again because of Bernie and his followers.

Including my 22 year old great nephew who shouts me down when I try to explain that Bernie is definitely not the answer.

[independent think]

92. Unted Together

We won't lose because of Bernie supporters. We will lose because of the constant attack of Bernie and his supporters. Some presidential politicians seem to think that if they just unite women and Black people they will win. How did that work out the last time? Bernie supporters and even Stein supporters have something to say. Some of their criticism especially on Social Security support by Biden are spot on. Some may be over the top.Criticism itself is a sign of a free society. Bernie and his supporters are no near Trump supporters. This is coming from a 77 year old woman who has supported both Warren and Bernie but with this recent debacle now supports Bernie alone.

[KPN]

59. Don't fall for it folks. This whole piece

by Kurt Bardella is classic projection, meant to divide us ... by someone who calls himself a Democrat despite a clearly right wing past.

Kurt Bardella was an R until two years ago. He was also a high level staffer for Darrell Issa, Olivia Snowe, and even Breitbart — look it up.

Bardella claims to be a progressive, yet he disparaged the “self-righteousness” of “Bernie Bro’s”. He is not a progressive any more than a never-Trump Republican is a progressive.

Frankly, we as a party are and have been in a classic struggle between the recent liberal past and a return to a former past, FDR era progressive principles. The last thing we need or should tolerate is reformed Republicans seeking to lead or sway our party.

Oh, and if you’d like some really good chuckles, take a look at this:
[link:https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/12/16/first-year-democrat-found-my-voice-embraced-my-identity-column/2301857002/|

[Gothmog]

61. Again, this article is consistent with the conduct I saw at the National Convention

I was a delegate to the national convention and I saw similar conduct by vetted sanders delegates.

[KPN]

70. So? Tell me about that conduct. How did it

damage things?

[Gothmog]

123. sanders and his supporters disrupted the national convention and caused a ton of problems

sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis and Elijah Cummings. Stacy Abrams and other African American speakers were also booed.. I was warned about the planned stunt of booing John Lewis 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this event and declined.

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders.

sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally a group of sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. Again sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and sanders refused

Attending a national convention is an once in a life time experience. I did not care about sanders delegates yelling at me (yelling at a lawyer is a waste of time) but I do care that the sanders delegates disrupted the convention and hurt Clinton. Again, a National Convention is supposed to be an event to help put a positive face on the general election campaign. sanders delegates did a great job of messing this up

[calimary]

62. Maybe Bernie hasn't "encouraged" the ugliness that his supporters display

but he sure as hell hasn’t DISCOURAGED that ugliness, either.

Let me just add a reminder here, of the microcosm that existed, right HERE, back in 2016. It certainly wasn’t the Hillary supporters bullying, intimidating, and piling on Bernie supporters and LITERALLY DRIVING THEM OFF THIS BOARD.

Okay?????

[melman]

65. Didn't this guy work for Steve Bannon at Breitbart?

Yes. Yes he did work for Steve Bannon. And Darrel Issa.

Nice source.

[JoeOtterbein]

77. BOOM!!!! nt

[Skidmore]

93. He's a Democrat now

and has been one for the past three years.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/07/trump-made-me-see-whats-wrong-with-republicans-breitbart-kurt-bardella-column/622134001/

[MrsCoffee]

119. Lol. He is what he wants to be when it benefits him.

He said he would run all future races as a Democrat, yet still files and runs as an Independent. His excuse about Vermont not having party registration for voters just doesn't fucking fly for why he runs as an Independent. There have been plenty of Democratic candidates run for office in Vermont.

[Skidmore]

121. Sounds like you are referring to Sanders

while the article I linked to was one by Bardella explaining his decision to leave the Republican party and become a Democrat. I believe that Bardella has made a sincere change to much more liberal beliefs.

[Skidmore]

75. I wonder if anyone noticed how

women in large numbers were driven from social media in 2016? The abuse from these men was horrible. It united women as much as the vitriol from Trump did. Women rejected the lies and bullying from both of those campaigns.

You could see it start again this past weekend when the media finally noticed Sanders and started looking at his campaign tactics. The denial on this board a few days ago of the Sanders campaign being unionized because of the way women staff were treated is in keeping with the denial of the presence of these bullies who try to further Sanders campaign. I don't know where they come from. I do know that this behavior is indefensible.

[jalan48]

76. Kurt Bardella

"Kurt Bardella is a media strategist who previously worked as a spokesperson for Breitbart News, the Daily Caller, Rep. Darrell Issa, Rep. Brian Bilbray and Senator Olympia Snowe"

https://www.huffpost.com/author/kurt-bardella

'Once a staunch Republican and rising star, Kurt Bardella becomes a Democrat"
Bardella, 34, who grew up in Escondido and earned his chops on local campaigns and as a staffer for Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Vista, wrote in a USA Today opinion piece that he’s leaving the GOP.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-party-switch-20171208-story.html

Get poor Kurt a fainting couch.

[lapucelle]

83. The headline is the title of the article. N/T

[keithbvadu2]

81. "and silence criticism."

They are also here on DU.

[RazBerryBeret]

84. ummmm....

as evidenced right here, EVERY candidate has vocal and loyal supporters.
I've seen some of these tactics by supporters of several candidates here. Whether you can admit it, popular candidates pull some supporters who are passionate about their choice, who think they are the only ones who are correct.
It's human nature. It doesn't help to ascribe this to a single candidate's following, yet this continues.

[lapucelle]

90. You should contact the author with your evidence of systematic cyberbullying

by rogue supporters of other candidates.

This is not about "vocal and loyal support". It is about tactics of intimidation which ALL the Democratic candidates have spoken out against.

[The Valley Below]

85. All the problems flow from adopting the tactics of populism:

anger, rage, division, scapegoating, and demagoguery as the motivating principles in a movement.

Populism is toxic.

[PatrickforO]

86. Well, I see these Trump supporters often. They come out en masse

on sites like the Hill.

Maybe I haven't been on the right sights to see the Bernie deal, though. It bothers me that a group of his supporters stayed home.

I wondered how many, and it looks like over 10%, mainly those Bernie supporters who did not identify as Democrats.

Worse, over 200,000 Bernie supporters voted for Trump in the swing states, MI, PA and WI.

Sometimes I wonder if those people look at Trump and his white supremacist administration now, as it attacks the environment, pretty much everybody besides white men, and lurches from policy disaster to policy disaster. Wonder how they liked the attacks on the ACA, and the giant tax cut for billionaire donors.

I was a big Bernie supporter in '16, and it WAS a bitter primary. But I guess the diff. with me is that I identify as a Democrat. Because I would never in a million years have voted for Trump. Never.

And now we have them on Twitter.

You know what? When you get buried by these jerks when you post keep fighting back with lucid posts after they hit you with stupid one liners. They do go away.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

87. There's a lot of slagging of Kurt Bardella on this thread, and yes,

he once worked for Breitbart and apparently switched to Dem only in the last couple of years. People do have conversions, though. But whether he's a sincere convert isn't the point. He is reporting that he sees and gets a high volume of hateful and harassing tweets from Sanders' supporters but not from supporters of the other candidates. Why this happens is a fair question, and why Sanders hasn't publicly condemned and repudiated this kind of behavior is another fair question. His observation is consistent with others', including those of us who have also noticed the inflammatory, extreme and sometimes downright false remarks of Sanders' campaign staff. Those people aren't just some randos on the Internet, they - and I mean in particular Sirota, Gray and Turner - represent the campaign and presumably reflect the views of the candidate himself. If they don't, he should say so and sack his staff. Are the angry Twitterers taking their cues from Sirota et al? Why are they more hostile and fanatical than the supporters of the other candidates? Before DU's Sanders supporters start climbing down my neck, I will emphasize that of course not all are behaving like this. But Bardella isn't just imagining this stuff.

[Peregrine Took]

91. I dearly hope all the Bernie haters get in line and vote blue if he gets nominated.

I sure did for Hillary although I was a passionate Bernie person as most of us did.

[MH1]

95. He won't. If he is, I will support him, as he is far better than Trump,

and any sane person left of RWNJ will do the same.

I am fairly certain he can't possibly be nominated, and his primary run is just ego-fueled disruption (although he probably doesn't see that himself).

[yardwork]

101. I'm seeing this in real life.

[BannonsLiver]

102. Great piece. Spot on. I have witnessed this here and in real life many times

[Gothmog]

166. So have i

[LeftTurn3623]

103. so its ok to compare Bernie supporters

to Trump's supporters? I think that,s pretty offensive


Not sure how many times Bernie has said (and just did in last debate) that the most important thing is removing Trump from office and he would support whoever the nominee is if it is not him and work tirelessly for them to win.

It does not mean he needs to fight nice and just let Biden walk his way to the nomination. Warren sure as hell isn't playing nice.

[Thekaspervote]

113. There's a difference between "fighting nice" and fair and out right lies made up to boost a campaign

[George II]

122. He should hold a staff meeting and tell his top staffers about that.

[Gothmog]

125. sanders top staff are the ones encouraging the problems

sirtoa is not a nice person and several of the other top sanders staffers are stein supporters. A vote for Jill Stein was a vote for trump

[Grasswire2]

104. I thought re-litigaging 2016 was against DU rules.

This is incendiary. Doing Putin's work dividing Democrats.

[Hav]

107. This needed to be said

Bernie is not responsible for the deplorable actions of the extreme section of followers that are indeed comparable to Trumpers but on the other side, look at his hired guns. There was no need to fill his campaign at the top with people who pushed to vote against Hillary and who now lie and deceive and use similar tactics that the Repubs do.
Like this article put it, candidates need to set the standard and looking at the deplorable conduct you can see regularly on Twitter, Bernie is setting a very poor standard, maybe deliberately as anger is a vital part he needs for his campaign. He needs enthusiasm, anger and enemies to keep his followers engaged. Look at the standard he set by hiring Sirota alone which was first done in secret to go after Beto.

If you look at the other campaigns, when they criticize other candidates, it's rooted in the truth and not in made up bs or in hatred of the Democratic party.

[Thekaspervote]

114. This!! No democratic campaign or candidate should openly bash the Democratic Party

Sanders has said many times at his rallies that he is going to “take on the Democratic establishment” to the clapping and roar of his followers. This turns young voters away from our party!!

The dem establishment..
Adam Schiff
Speaker Pelosi
Maxine waters
Jerry nadler
Eric swalwell
Tammy Duckworth
Chuck Schumer

Gotta ask your self...where would we be right now without them??!!

[R B Garr]

115. Bardella was on Morning Joe today discussing the

“hard core attack mode” that Bernie Bro’s engage in. Bernie Bro’s is now a mainstream term. This is a very good piece describing it, but we have seen it for years now...

The way their behavior is described by the recipients like Bardella is that it’s on par with Trump supporters. It’s not the first time those kind of Trump comparisons have been written about Bernie.

Thanks for posting this, lapucelle! The Morning Joe panel was discussing how Bernie needs to start taking responsibility for this and start reining them in.

[George II]

116. This is an example of what the Sanders campaign, not him directly, is engaged in. There is...

...a tweet or message like this put out almost hourly by the campaign:

Link to tweet

[lapucelle]

117. Zephyr Teachout should be ashamed. N/T

[Gothmog]

124. sanders internal polling must be really bad for sanders to pull this stunt

Link to tweet

[58Sunliner]

126. I do wonder if racism isn't an element to their ferocity, as well as sexism.

That is ugly behavior. Would not surprise me if some were bots.

[Still In Wisconsin]

128. Agree completely. Hardcore Bernie Bros have much in common

with the MAGA crowd. Destroy all opposition by whatever means they see fit. Note that I am NOT saying this is all Sanders supporters just the Bernie Bros... you know the whole Jackpine Radicals Crew.

[Turbineguy]

129. Last time around I was a member of the Bernie group on here.

I wrote something (trying to be humorous?) I can't remember what and got kicked off the forum.

No "hey, what did you mean by that?" Or a chance to clarify. Just the boot.

So I voted for Hillary Clinton in the primary.

[redstatebluegirl]

131. Twitter is more of a cesspool than facebook.

[lapucelle]

133. I will check out twitter if there's a link, but I don't go on facebook.

I certainly would never use either as my news source.

[betsuni]

132. K&R

[melman]

137. .

Link to tweet

[Tiggeroshii]

151. Omg

[NCProgressive]

172. Do you disagree with anything in the OP?

[John Fante]

152. Check the Twitter feed of any random "Bernie Bros"

99% of their tweets/retweets will be anti-Democratic Party. They loathe Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi with a passion that rivals any MAGAt. You might find an obligatory anti-Trump tweet in the mix, but they're rare.

Their agenda (epitomized by morons like Jimmy Dore) is obvious. If they can't have Bernie, then Trump it is.

[Tarheel_Dem]

155. I wish the press wouldn't cover him at all. Of course, as we've seen here, ignoring him incurs...

the exact same wrath. This is why so many of us hoped he would sit this one out. But alas..........

[UCmeNdc]

157. Russians

[wyldwolf]

160. My recent bernie bro moment...

In a post on another forum, said Bernie bro was trying to build the case that a moderate can't win a general election, and used Al Gore, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton as proof.

He shrugged off Gore and Clinton's popular vote wins. He shrugged off voter suppression, aid from a foreign government, and a one-off SCOTUS decision that he wasn't really aware of though he tried to fake it after I reminded him. He also shrugged off Barack Obama's two wins.

I asked why he chose 2000 as the starting point for his theory, and not election years prior. He didn't know why I was referencing that year. When I told him 2000 was the year Al Gore ran, he told me Gore wasn't the best candidate that year and that Howard Dean was.

Then in a stellar display of his political prowess, he told me Michael Dukakis lost to Reagan in 1984 and that the election of W. Bush was the first election that Republicans appealed to the racist south.

Right as I bailed from the conversation, he told me I need to check my facts.

[BannonsLiver]

161. Sigh. So many similarities to the you know who's.

[Cha]

162. Kick

[Gothmog]

165. Hey Cha

[oasis]

167. a boot to da trut