Is it possible that Bernie and Liz remember the conversation differently and that both honestly

[jg10003]

believe they are right? After 18 years of marriage I can confirm that such things do happen.

My theory;
Bernie said, or thought he was saying, that it would be more difficult for a woman to beat trump (because trump is the most effective demagogue in U.S history).
Warren heard, or thought she heard, Bernie say that a woman could not be elected president.
Perhaps Bernie's language was, inadvertently, unclear.
Perhaps Warren misunderstood the point Bernie was trying to make.

Bernie and Liz, and their supporters, should do the same thing me and my wife do in such circumstances;
GET OVER IT!!!
Remember all that you have in common and all that you want to accomplish together. Do not let petty squabbles blind you to what is really important.

[caraher]

1. That's pretty much what I think

This is all a distraction and ultimately plays into Trump's hands.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. THIS!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. It's possible... just don't understand why bring it up now tho? And I agree with you... SO RIGHT!!

They've been best of friends... should keep it that way.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[elleng]

6. 'Excitement' for CNN audience,

and Iowa viewers.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

9. Yeah, you're prolly right.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Apple Fritter]

3. exactly.

throwing this at both of them is so ludicrous. But they like spicy for ratings.

[elleng]

4. Of course; happens ALL the time.

I was satisfied with what they said during the debate, but not so satisfied after, with the 'handshake.'

[Raine]

7. Totally agree about both

I didn't like the refusal to shake hands at all.

[elleng]

8. ;-(

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

11. Disappointing to be sure. BTW, your candidate performed very well I thought... congrats!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Raine]

13. Thanks, I think so too but

I also think Bernie did great!

[vsrazdem]

15. I agree, I thought it was rather childish. I didn't expect that.

[jg10003]

10. Things happen in the heat of the moment. 2 hours on their feet, hot lights, high stakes,

nerves are frayed. Things are said that are later regretted. Sometimes we forget that these are just people like you and me. they are not saints or demons (except for mitch mcconnell who really is satan).

[elleng]

12. Right but

they are running for POTUS, so otherwise ordinary things can be more important than usual, what affects how they make decisions.

[pnwmom]

14. That is what I'd expect a Bernie supporter to say. "Get over it!" nt

[UniteFightBack]

16. Sure it's no big deal except someone is LYING. nt

[padah513]

29. The handshake speaks volumes

[Aaron Pereira]

17. That's how I interpreted the situation.

Plenty of people have a stake in the rest of us NOT getting over it. Cable TV (ratings), other candidates (divide and conquer) Donald Trump (fracturing the Democratic party).

Looks to me like a simple misunderstanding between friends made worse by outsiders with questionable motives trying to throw gasoline on the fire.

[Skittles]

18. given Ms. Warren's professional background

I doubt very much she "misheard" him or misread the meaning.

[sheshe2]

19. This.

[Bummfuzzle]

20. Sure, then you have the scripted text going after her that at first Sanders denied and basically

said the same is probably happening in Warrens camp with one rogue employee. But that was a lie. It was scripted. In more than one state. As a matter of fact, it was orchestrated.

[Crowman]

21. Had a cold?

Somebody said it was because Warren had a cold and she told Bernie that she shouldn't shake hands. I have no idea if that is true or not. The proof would be if Warren shook other peoples' hands tonight.

[betsuni]

27. No. She shook other people's hands.

It was not like this:

[NanceGreggs]

22. Isn't the real point of all of this ...

… that it’s totally pointless?

I don’t know what Warren thought would be gained by recounting this story. She had to know that if Bernie did say it, he would either deny it outright, or provide some context to the discussion; e.g. it was about a specific woman candidate that he believes could not win the presidency. And no surprise – most politicians would do exactly that.

The point of the utter pointlessness here is that nothing has changed competition-wise for anyone – except that some of Bernie’s supporters now see Warren as a liar, and some Warren supporters now see Bernie as a misogynist. And that’s probably an even split.

But did it change any minds? Did a single Warren supporter say, “OMG! She wrongfully accused Bernie of saying something he didn’t say? I’m outta here.”

Did a single Bernie supporter say, “OMG! He’s a woman-hating bastard – and then lies about it? I’m outta here.”

I’d wager that neither Bernie nor Warren gained nor lost a single supporter over this – which brings me back to how pointless this whole exercise has been.

[seaglass]

30. It has made me more open to Warren as I see distancing between her and Bernie as a plus.

This story may never have come out if Bernie doorknockers weren't given a script by the campaign that characterized Warren's supporters as the enemy (yes that is was wealthy and highly educated was supposed to mean).

[Thekaspervote]

23. It is naive on warren's part not to see that this would happen...sanders wants to win

his attack dogs have already thrown so much at others. Did she really think she would be immune?

[Big Chief]

24. It's kind of funny...

Reading this. The Sanders and Warren supporters are trying to have an actual discussion and the undecided and Biden supporters are stoking the flames.

[delisen]

25. Same excuse offered re Thomas/Hill

[ritapria]

26. Why has it taken Liz 2 years to become offended ?

She loved Bernie last summer ...

[ehrnst]

33. Repeating a fallacy doesn't make it a fact.

Again...


She didn't "get offended after 2 years."

1. She had a conversation 2 years ago, and told a few people about it afterwards.

2. One of those people 2 years later leaked what she said to them 2 years ago to the press.

Therefore, she did not suddenly "become offended" at something he said 2 years ago, as you keep trying to convince yourself and others.

If you have evidence that she's lying about any of those things, do share it.

Until then, if you need to repeatedly misrepresent someone's actions to make a point about them, perhaps your point needs to be re-examined.

It's telling that she is more concerned about how this story is affecting the Democratic campaign, and telling her supporters to stop directing anger at Sanders than a candidate a candidate whose slogan is "Us, not Me."

That's a hallmark of a leader. That's how an adult deals with this.

[Mike Nelson]

28. That should be an...

.. explanation, but it isn't. Neither candidate is leaving room for this interpretation. I thought Bernie might come around to this thinking - "maybe I used the wrong word." Or Elizabeth might have said, "maybe I heard it incorrectly." But Bernie said the conversation simply did not happen, so the explanation can't apply. And, Elizabeth appears certain about what was said. We're being told to "Get over it," but Bernie and Elizabeth are not "Over it" and they set the table.

[corbettkroehler]

31. Genius Answer In The Moment!

My conviction in favor of Sanders has fluctuated 0% but I was impressed with Senator Warren's PERFECT response, distancing herself from the made-up controversy but taking a well-earned moment to remind the audience of her and Amy's record of success.

[elleng]

35. Yes.

Maybe I'll visit Vermont soon (where my folks had a vacation house,) or Brooklyn, where I grew up!

[MrsCoffee]

32. Except a little thing called history.

Given his thoughtless condescending statements on women candidates and voters in the past, I’m going to have to take Senator Warren’s word on this matter.

[ehrnst]

34. The reaction of the two to the leak says volumes.

Warren is telling her supporters to get over it, and Bernie is not. Bernie blew his top.

She's being a real leader here, despite being called a liar, and is not being derailed. She's ready to move on.

Bernie is not known for acknowledging that he makes mistakes, or even gaffes, and he tends to double down even when presented with evidence that he has.

I also think that Bernie is often not aware of how his words and attitude are perceived, and is more of a talker than a listener.

I can imagine that he was lecturing, and said something to the effect that nominating a woman or person of color would give Trump an unbeatable talking point or ammunition to defeat Democrats. And I can imagine that Warren said that she disagreed when she got a chance to reply. And then I can imagine that Bernie would have been dismissive of her points, as I have seen him do in interviews.

I imagine that she talked to someone about this, and related that Bernie's statements revealed that the thought that a Woman or POC would not be able to overcome what he believed the "American people" could be convinced was a dealbreaker.

Even if he didn't say "A woman can't win the POTUS election" saying that Americans are too misogynistic to accept a qualfied female candidate says essentially the same thing. And I could understand where Bernie would have not been fully aware of how that came across to someone who had fully supported a woman for POTUS who got more votes than anyone not named Obama, and had been encouraged to run just three years before... I would also bet good money that conversation in December 2018 did not include any encouragement by Sanders for Warren to run. That would certainly have indicated to Warren that he thought a woman could win. I think that his lack of encouragement of Warren in December of 2018 to run indicates that indeed he felt that she would be more of an obstacle to his goals than she was in 2015.

I could understand that he might get irritated should someone point out that Hillary did win the popular vote despite rampant misogyny on both the left and right, 25 years of smears, the statistical improbability of a party to hold the WH for more than two consecutive terms, and but for Comey and voter suppression of Democrats in three key states where she lost by a sliver, she would have likely broken Obama's record for the popular vote.