Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat" From 2017..

[Cha]

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday night that he still does not consider himself a Democrat, despite taking part in a Democratic National Committee unity tour with the party's new chair Tom Perez.

"No, I'm an Independent," Sanders said when asked by MSNBC's Chris Hayes whether he now identifies as a Democrat.

"If the Democratic Party is going to succeed - and I want to see it succeed - it's gonna have to open its door to Independents," he continued. "There are probably more Independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."

Sanders had been dogged by questions about his party affiliation throughout the presidential primary. Last April, his campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, told Bloomberg that Sanders would remain a Democrat after the election.

Sitting alongside Perez during a joint interview, Sanders said that he wants the Democratic Party to focus on key issues for progressives, such as the decline of the middle class, the "need" to take on wealthy interests and unite around "Medicare for all."

When asked whether the party supports the idea of "Medicare for all," Perez argued that the party believes "healthcare is a right, not a privilege."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sanders-i-dont-consider-myself-a-democrat/ar-BBA1muj?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

Reposting.. RandySF~ https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028947540

BTW.. We are "OPEN to Independents".. that's who helped us Win The Blue Wave Midterm.. that BS said he "didn't see happening".

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) thinks there is reason to doubt the predicted "blue wave" in next month'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211306674

So much negativity..

[comradebillyboy]

1. I'll agree with Bernie on that count, I don't thik he's a democrat either.

[Cha]

32. Yeah.. like "no kidding". Really?

[DownriverDem]

50. And that

really bothers me

[onetexan]

62. Ditto. BS shouldn't have been allowed to run as a Dem.

[calimary]

70. It bothers me, too. A LOT.

You’ll use our stuff, take our email lists, help yourself to all our party infrastructure, and then kick us to the curb when you don’t win. AND never sharing your email list with us on your way out.

Cute, Bernie. REEEEEEEEEAL cute. I bet you think many of us haven’t noticed, or cared. You’d be dead wrong on both counts.

[Cartaphelius]

81. So it is either a Nazi or a

Socialist?

Why should a Democrat vote for you? Just what, besides,
empty promises and splitting our Party have you done for
the Democratics?

No offense intended... Just curious as I can't remember any
meaningful benefit realized from the Sander's quarter..

[NurseJackie]

187. I take him at his word when he said...

[Demsrule86]

2. One thing he and I agree on...I dont think he is a Democrat either.

[SidDithers]

3. I agree with Bernie. I also don't think he's a Democrat...nt

Sid

[ArtTownsend]

4. I hear your concerns, yet Sanders seems to be polling well among a lot of Democratic voters.

I like Sanders, Warren, and many other of our candidates as well. I will enthusiastically support the Democratic nominee, whomever he or she is.

[Cha]

9. Not my concern... it is what it is. Straight from his mouth.

[ArtTownsend]

10. Then why did you post the thread?

I noticed you didn’t address what I said about his support among a lot of Democratic voters.

[Cha]

11. Why do you ask?

[ArtTownsend]

12. No, I asked you a question first.

[LiberalLovinLug]

13. Maybe you should be more concerned with winning the election

"...it's gonna have to open its door to Independents"

Tell us why you don't agree with this, if you don't.

[Cha]

16. Maybe you shouldn't tell me what to do.

WE ARE OPEN TO INDEPENDENTS.. IT SAYS SO IN THE OP.. BS is WRONG.

[LiberalLovinLug]

33. Its a confusing OP then. Please clarify.

you had to SHOUT back you were so insistent that "we" (more establishment candidate backers?) are open to independents.

Sanders: "it's gonna have to open its door to Independents"

But then follow with, "BS is wrong".

From the same article you posted:

"Sanders had been dogged by questions about his party affiliation throughout the presidential primary" Now that's one thing that isn't BS. Thanks for pointing that one out.

[Cha]

34. BS is Wrong.. sorry you're confused. Read it again. the Whole OP.

[LiberalLovinLug]

51. Wrong about what?

Okay...the whole OP

Sanders said "no I'm an independent" presumably after being asked if he was a Democrat. (no actual quote found of him stating "I don't consider myself a Democrat". Your link doesn't work for me. Here I'll help you out and after googling I found the same story in The Hill:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

Nowhere does he actually use those words. But whatever. I'll give it to you as it is also in The Hill's heading. And basically that is correct.

But its still old old news. And he's not saying anything untrue

so Check √


"If the Democratic Party is going to succeed - and I want to see it succeed - it's gonna have to open its door to Independents"

Check √

"There are probably more Independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."

Check √

Sanders had been dogged by questions about his party affiliation throughout the presidential primary

a big old Check √

"he wants the Democratic Party to focus on key issues for progressives, such as the decline of the middle class, the "need" to take on wealthy interests and unite around "Medicare for all."

Check √ (these are the issues that excite the base and new and young voters)

When asked whether the party supports the idea of "Medicare for all," Perez argued that the party believes "healthcare is a right, not a privilege."

Check √ (The party establishment makes sure to dampen or deflect any talk of real progress towards true single payer medical care for Americans, as every other democracy enjoys)

On to your contributions:

"BTW.. We are "OPEN to Independents".

Great! (And Sanders is the best candidate to garner those Independent votes, so you helped to confirm my choice)

Then a kind of sudden out of the blue, no pun intended, last attempt at a kind of jab at Sanders for being overly cautious in declaring a Blue Wave before it happens. Helping to make sure folks still come out and vote. I recall a lot of folks in here celebrating Hillary's win early too.
So good on Bernie for that!

Check √

So I still would like to know exactly how you come to a conclusion that "BS is wrong" About what exactly? Unless by BS you mean BullShit, in general, is wrong, I agree with that.

Check √

[Cha]

63. Read the Whole OP.

[LiberalLovinLug]

119. lol. I literally quoted the whole OP

But you fail to answer even a simple question: How do you back up that "Bernie is wrong"? About what exactly? Still waiting.

[Cha]

130. Sorry you don't get it.

[LiberalLovinLug]

133. Is there some kind of digital invisible ink you are using?

Am I supposed to hold a candle up to my mac? Maybe rub some alcohol on my monitor?
I still don't see your answer to the simple question about what exactly is Bernie "wrong" about?

Ah....lemon juice, maybe that's it!

[Cha]

134. The OP is Clear.

[LiberalLovinLug]

135. Just give me a hint.

Oh I know....I need these! I'll have to look in the attic. I think I ordered these a long long time ago once.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

137. Cue the crickets... chirp! chirp!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Cha]

193. What?

[Cha]

195. I don't hear any crickets.

[Cha]

138. Figure it out..

[Cha]

145. No.

[Cha]

150. you know better than that.

[Cha]

152. All you have are personal attacks.

[DemocracyMouse]

154. You started the personal attack on Bernie Sanders by referencing a 3 yr old artiicle...

... using the epithet "BS" and simply ignoring the statements of non-Biden supporters. One of them, LiberalLovinLug was actually very patient and kind, but you denigrated him.

[Cha]

155. lol.. BS' own words.

[Cha]

156. BS are his initials.. I did Not "denigrate" anyone

.. The OP is Quite Clear in what it says.. there's no "confusion" whatsoever.

[Cha]

185. No I didn't

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

194. Why worry about it...all the baseless Bernie bashing does is energize Bernie supporters

that much more to vote in the state primaries for him, or encourage additional supporters to join Bernie's ranks. There's no doubt that this backlash is fueling Bernie's continued surge in the polls... there's no stopping Bernie now, certainly not the unfounded fear some have over Bernie eventually winning the Democratic nomination and going on to thump tRump in the general election.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Cha]

196. Again... those are his initials.. I didn't start anything..

"..ignoring the statements of non Biden supporters.. "

Really?

I didn't "denigrate" him.

[Cha]

149. BS says he's Not a Democrat.

[Cha]

141. maybe you should be more concerned what BS is

actually saying in the OP.

[redqueen]

52. It really seems like some here are intent on depressing turnout.

[Cha]

100. These are BS' own words.. so who's trying to "depress"?

[DemocracyMouse]

153. Cha, sorry to say, but Redqueen is right. You're discouraging and negative

You post a divisive article from three years ago. You use the epithet "BS." It's mean spirited and has no place on DU

[Cha]

157. Sorry Not Sorry.. These are BS' very own Words. 2017..

And BS are his Very Own Initials.

Actually these are the FACTS.. Reporting what BS says is Not "mean spirited".

Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat" From 2017..

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287420249

[emmaverybo]

159. Puleese! This is the second negative and divisive campaign Bernie has run. He has even used

distortion and lies to try to get ahead. And he directs his anger at the party helping him run instead of at Republicans and Trump.

He wants a grassroots party? No he doesn’t. Grassroots wouldn’t have got him in the running. We MUST unite around M4All? We are united around wanting universal healthcare, but Bernie’s plan is not the only way to go and not all Dems agree that it’s the best way to go.

Bernie spends too much time and energy trying to dictate to a party he has also consistently bashed when what he needs to do is show us why he is the best candidate to lead America and the free world. Without AA support, which he has not worked to earn, he can not unite Americans and that is the real task, to unite Americans to protect our democratic values and take the country back from this corrupt administration and its supporters, the white Supremacist rabble. We also have a role in the world that Bernie seems to ignore. He needs to enlarge his mission.

Negative? Mean-spirited? Not many would see those qualities in Cha’s posts and comments, but a substantial number of Dems have that perception of Bernie.

[sheshe2]

162. Most accurate post I have read in a long time.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

103. Yes requeen, posts like this are divisive yet they appear over & over again, which only helps Dolt45

And that's Putin it nicely.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. Bernie's sure does!! That's because he's not JUST a Democrat... Bernie is a DEMOCRAT's Democrat!!

Bernie votes the DEMOCRATIC line more than most Democrats... he's one of the most reliable DEMOCRATIC votes on issues that matter to DEMOCRATS. Bernie caucuses with DEMOCRATS... Bernie has held positions of power within the DEMOCRATIC Party... Bernie has run for President only as a DEMOCRAT and had be pledged to serve as the next DEMOCRATIC President.

That's has made Bernie, and will make President Sanders, a TRUE DEMOCRAT!!

Yet some short-sighted people would rather Bennie run as an Independent and syphon votes from the Democratic nominee that would all but GUARAN-DAMN-TEE that President Pig Vomit gets reelected. Why would anyone promote such a foolish idea that only serves to divide Democrats and help tRumpty Dumbty?


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Cha]

104. BS actually says he "doesn't consider himself a Democrat"..

don't you believe him?

[sheshe2]

164. Hmmm

InAbLuEsTaTe
102. Bernie's sure does!! That's because he's not JUST a Democrat... Bernie is a DEMOCRAT's Democrat!!

Please explain what a Democrat's Democrat is. He has said many times he is not a Democrat. You don't believe his word?

Sanders: I don't consider myself a Democrat


Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday night that he still does not consider himself a Democrat despite taking part in a Democratic National Committee (DNC) unity tour with the party's new chairman, Tom Perez.

"No, I'm an Independent," Sanders said when asked by MSNBC's Chris Hayes whether he now identifies as a Democrat.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

Bernie votes the DEMOCRATIC line more than most Democrats... he's one of the most reliable DEMOCRATIC votes on issues that matter to DEMOCRATS.

No, not in line with Democrats when voting for Russian sanctions or the Brady Bill which he voted against 5 times. Voted no on Amber Alert.

[grantcart]

179. Really polling well? 4 years ago he polled at 40 %. Now he is polling at 22%.

He only appears to be doing well because the "anybody but Bernie" wing of the part is split 6 ways.

Given that he amassed a huge donor base and has had a built in structure in all of the primary states I would consider his results tepid at best.

Given that he started with a 4 year head start his loss of half of his base from four years ago is actually a step backwards but then again Sanders is all about "addition by subtraction".

[Me.]

5. If There Are More Independents In The Country

why doesn't he run for president as an independent instead of trying to siphon off benefits from the Dem Party? You know like he also does in Vermont?

Excellent thread +1000

Aloha Hoa

[ArtTownsend]

7. Because Sanders doesn't want to throw the election to Trump.

Is this hard to understand?

[George II]

15. Oh?

[ArtTownsend]

17. Do you disagree?

[Cha]

21. lol

So altruistic

[ArtTownsend]

26. Which of the Democratic candidates voted for the war in Iraq?

That was a very altruistic war, wasn’t it? Hmm...

[beastie boy]

35. I counted a total of nine

Jim Webb, candidate in '16
Chris Dodd, candidate in '08
Hillary Clinton, candidate in '08 and '16
John Edwards, candidate in '08
Evan Bayh, candidate in '08
John Kerry, candidate in '04
Dick Gephardt, candidate in '04
Dennis Kucinich, candidate in '04
Carol Mosley Braun, candidate in '04

And suddenly, without warning, it became an issue in '20, when Bernie lags behind Biden in the race.

Bernie supporters seem to be very patient with their criticism of the Iraq war vote, not to mention very selective. Not a peep in 17 years!

[apcalc]

127. Bet some are tickled pink at Sanders' gun votes."

[Thekaspervote]

56. And which independent senator voted for appropriations to continue that war??!

You can find it in sanders voting record.

[Cha]

95. Thanks, Kasper.

[beastie boy]

18. Oh, the irony!

A full 12% of Bernie's primary voters ended up voting for Trump. That's when he was running as a Dem. If he were to run as an independent, he would have taken these 12% from Trump, not the Dems.

For all intents and purposes, running as a Democrat, Bernie DID throw the election to Trump.

[ArtTownsend]

19. Would you rather have him run as a Green? Pull a Ralph Nader 2000?

[beastie boy]

29. I am not allowed to relitigate 2016, but I would absolutely prefer him running as a Green in 2020.

At the very least, it would have been more honest of him, and yes, I believe it would have benefited the eventual Democratic nominee. Based on past record, as a third party candidate, Bernie would have taken as many votes from Trump as he would have from a Democrat in the Generals. And he wouldn't have given Trump any additional votes.

[LongtimeAZDem]

42. This +1

[Cha]

28. How many voted for jill stein's LIES?

Link to tweet

[LiberalLovinLug]

31. You help defeat your own argument, thanks

Because you know, and I know, and everyone who knows anything knows...that those that voted for Trump, who purported to support Sanders, were never going to vote for Hillary anyways. Thus they were no (substantial) lost votes!

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds


Party seems to have had something to do with it — Sanders-Trump voters were much less likely than Sanders-Clinton or Sanders-third party voters to have been Democrats.

Which brings me to your defeated argument. That IF those disaffected independent voters actually had a candidate like Sanders this time round to vote for, (even if we are both confused as to why someone would ever consider Trump and Sanders in the same sentence) a vote is a vote. And Democrats would get thousands, if not millions more votes cured from these confused independents. All that matters is if we win. And putting up yet another establishment candidate will only solidify their re-vote for Trump and without them we will never beat the Trump/Fox machine.

[beastie boy]

41. And you just returned the favor.

You know, and I know, and everyone who knows anything... the Never Hillary crowd didn't just evaporate. The fact that there was a big chunk of Bernie's supporters who were never going to vote for the Democratic nominee doesn't give me any solace. In fact, this is what I base my fears on. There is a precedent.

And here is how you defeated your own point: First you say there was a portion of voters who never meant to vote for a Democrat (Hillary), and then you call them "confused". No, they can be either one (intending to vote against a Democrat) or the other (unsure of whether they will vote for a Democrat). Bernie brings not a single "disaffected" voter to the Democratic side. However, if there are Bernie voters, as you hypothesize, are disaffected in 2020, Bernie running as a third party candidate would peel these voters away from Trump.

And those you call "confused"? After the '16 experience, I don't think there are many confused Democrats left. But that's a whole different thread.

[LiberalLovinLug]

71. I was referring to confused Independents not "confused Democrats" as you thought I said.

These are who I was referring to.... confused Independents I'd call an Independent teetering between Trump and Sanders a confused voter wouldn't you? But if they vote Sanders, its a vote for Democrats. So we can use that. Democrats who were Sanders supporters overwhelmingly voted for Clinton. The Green party got a whopping 1% of the vote, even with Sarandons.


"Bernie brings not a single "disaffected" voter to the Democratic side."

Um, well, I just have to totally disagree with that statement. He not only brings disaffected Republicans and Independents, but also disaffected Democratic voters...like say Danny Devito, as an example. Its one of the main reasons he would win against Trump. I'd go so far to say that he's our BEST hope against Trump because of that broad appeal. Even if you don't like a President Sanders, you will like the many Democrats he brings in on his coattails.

[beastie boy]

87. So you say there is a meaningful number of indepeodents teetering between

Trump and Sanders whom Sanders can persuade to vote for, let's say, Klobuchar? I find it hard to believe. It is far more likely that, given the two choices, the "confused" independents will vote for Trump. Only if Bernie is the nominee does your scenario make any sense at all. And even then, the "confused" independents will gave a choice between a sitting President and a Senator with precious little to show in his history of legislative accomplishments. If I were confused and an independent, I would bet on the devil I know.

And just think about this: Bernie is bringing disaffected Republicans, Independents and Democrats to vote Democratic? How many of those did he bring in '16? A few statistics might make me stop snickering.

[Cha]

146. What?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

107. + ∞

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Cha]

148. No.. you "help" defeat your own argument"

[Apollo Zeus]

53. And where would the other 88% have come from?

Semi-useless hypotheticals aside, the truth is Sanders campaigned for Hillary, registered >1 million new voters and got millions of independents to re-register as Dems in 2016.

You're welcome.

[beastie boy]

76. Obviously, the other 88% would be divided between those who voted for Hillary, third party

candidates, write-in candidates and those who sat on their hands and didn't vote at all. I have no idea how big each of these categories is, but thank you for crediting me with this semi-useless observation.

As far as registering new voters and re-registering independents, the question remains: how many of them voted for Trump in the end? The answer is, 12%. As for the rest of them, see above.

As far as Sanders' campaigning for Hillary, it was limited to 12 events in the course of four months. That's three events per month. A small price to pay for the disproportionally prominent role Sanders negotiated for himself in drafting the DNC platform.

I hope you will eventually contribute something less useless than this to the thread.

[LiberalLovinLug]

23. +1000

What do they want? Sanders to start his own party? To accept leading the Green party?

Yeah yeah, I know what they want. Or think they want. For Sanders to call a press conference and with a tear in his eye, beg forgiveness for ever criticizing the party status quo, for not signing up to the party from day one. I think even then that wouldn't be enough for some.

Ain't gonna happen. Accept it. Sanders is a free radical in American politics. I don't know why an anomaly like that is so hard to absorb for some. So what if a popular, hard-working ally, who is a leader in bringing out issues and co-signing progressive bills and bi-partisan Veteran health bills, has a stubborn grumpy old man streak to him, and isn't going to change now anyways. Glass half full people!

[ArtTownsend]

25. Thank you. You nailed it.

[Thekaspervote]

57. And it will be great when he goes home to VT!!

[Cha]

144. These are BS' own words.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

176. This!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Me.]

36. Excuse Me

But what Sanders is saying, is true, that there are more votes, then how would that happen? Or is he not correct? Is that not hard to understand?

[demosincebirth]

180. Really? He must not be too smart, then.

[Cha]

14. Altruism?

Mahalo, Me Hoa!

[Me.]

47. That indeed, Is The Question.

[Cha]

65. And, we know

the answer!

[Me.]

74. ...

[Kurt V.]

44. there are only 7 to 10 percent true independents. the rest lean left ot right and vote accordingly

Sanders himself is the later.

[TidalWave46]

6. I agree with Sanders on this point. NT

[Cha]

97. Yeah, like "no kidding"!

[Cha]

183. Kicking this.. Thank you, TidalWave

[Cha]

189. He should know

[redstatebluegirl]

8. ++++10,0000

[WheelWalker]

20. That makes two of us.

Gotta agree with Sanders on this. If I can't believe what he says, why should I believe what he doesn't say?

[Cha]

175. ...

Mahalo, redstatebluegirl

[Mike Nelson]

22. Yikes!

... Of course they should be voting for Democrats! Weren't they always welcome? I did not know the Democratic Party had closed its door to independent voters... who shut the door? Open it immediately!

[Cha]

24. We HAVEN'T. That's just BS is throwing it out there

to bash the Dem Party.

[ArtTownsend]

27. Yup.

[getagrip_already]

30. Well, there are more independents/others than either d or r registered voters... but

They are'nt really unaligned. Many vote reliably with one party or the other, but don't want to identify as one of them.

You can't win with just dem votes. you can't win with just dem leaning independent votes. Heck, sometimes you can combine them and still not win.

But bernie is still wrong. And he isn't being honest.

[LiberalLovinLug]

38. WTF? "He (Bernie) doesn't care if trump wins unless he's the candidate"?

I have a principle of not alerting posts. (if its only a heated political argument) even though my honored debate opponents do not always follow the same principles. But you clearly broke the rule about smearing Dem candidates. Maybe someone else will alert. I prefer to duke it out on the board.

You also seemingly agree with Sanders, that "we can't win with just dem votes". Then bizarrely, end with "But bernie is still wrong" and that "he isn't being honest" About what?

[getagrip_already]

39. apologies if it offended.....

Wasn't meant to, just an opinion.

But to your second point, Bernie doesn't have that strong an appeal among true independents, just a small slice of them (libertarians, far left voters who left the party, etc). But overall, he won't pull a lot of votes from that pool.

Biden would. He can get disafected voters who otherwise wouldn't vote dem, plus all of the dem leaning indies.

You probably would ask why. Well, he doesn't scare them. While his policies are progressive, he doesn't throw socialism at them, or threaten to leave nato, or any one of a dozen other positions that are, well, scary to some.

I'm not saying I disagree with a lot of bernies positions (some not, but who loves everything from anyone?). Just that joe is more electable, and would draw more of the necessary votes and expand the pool.

[LiberalLovinLug]

77. Fair enough

We'll agree to disagree about who would draw out more independent votes. IMO "dem leaning indies" are most likely disaffected left voters, who would associate Biden in the same third way group as Hillary Clinton. Those who thought Obama did not go far enough with progressive policies.

Then there's the more confused Independents, who simply believe that there is an overbearing Washington insider establishment working against them, and don't think much deeper than that. Trump is seen as an anti-establishment disruptor, and so is Sanders. Yes I know he's a long time Washington politician, but what many Democrats (in DU and elsewhere) despise him for, remaining a stubborn Independent, including all the grief he gets for that, is proof to many I's that he is also anti-establishment. So some of that group of confused voter will vote Democratic over Trump, if its Sanders that is the nominee.

IMO
cheers.

[getagrip_already]

82. hmm, you make an interesting point...

That "Trump is seen as an anti-establishment disruptor, and so is Sanders".

But unlike 2016, I think people are sick of disruption. Trump has shown disruption isn't always for the better, and fwiw, people are beginning to see that "deep state infrastructure" is a good thing.

So I'm not sure that is still a broad plus. People don't want more chaos. That's partly why aoc is getting pushback. Don't burn something just to watch the fire. What gets destroyed isn't always worth the show.

[Cha]

190. In 2018 Moderares Got us the Blue Wace House Victory

for Democrats. Dems always Welcomed Independents.

[Thekaspervote]

58. He openly stated he is unsure if he would support the eventual nominee

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[Cha]

147. Joe Biden is Winning in the Swing States.

[booley]

37. Where did Sanders say he didnt see independants voting in 2018?

That would be a weird thing for him to say when Sanders went out and worked to get independents to vote for Democrat. Considering what it was before, I think a good case can be made that Sander sis the reason more Independents voted Democrat and why even more could in 2020.

Sorry, your added commentary just sounds contrary to the facts as I know them, almost as if it was made up whole cloth to put a negative spin on what is actually a positive story about Sanders

"If the Democratic Party is going to succeed - and I want to see it succeed - it's gonna have to open its door to Independents," he continued. "There are probably more Independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."

Sanders has long been an asset for the democratic party, regardless of how he identifies himself. He has helped the Democratic party in innumerable ways. This may explain this "Sanders isn't' a really a Democrat" thing only pops up when he's running in a Presidential primary.

We may have very different definitions of what constitutes "Negativity". Again I don't' see this negative at all. Sanders is helping boost voting for a party, even though he isn't officially part of that party himself. That is good for Democrats.

[LiberalLovinLug]

40. +1000

It must be difficult I'd think for some to contain these two conflicting directions in their heads. They intellectually agree with Sanders that Democrats need a large block of self affiliated Independents to vote D. Yet openly despise and ridicule the one candidate that will garner the most independent voters and help create another Blue Wave this November. I don't know how they do it.

[brutus smith]

46. They really are trying to alienate independent, Sanders voters.

[Cha]

54. Who's trying to "alienate" whom?

BS called the whole Dem Party "Elite" after the fascists took over the WH.. AFTER THE GENERAL "ELECTION".

Bernie Sanders 'deeply humiliated' Democrats lost white working-class voters

Washington (CNN)Sen. Bernie Sanders expressed his disappointment Monday with Hillary Clinton's failure to secure the support of white working-class voters in last week's presidential election.

Donald Trump "very effectively" tapped into "the anger and angst and pain that many working class people are feeling," the Vermont independent senator who challenged Clinton in the Democratic primary said on "CBS This Morning."

"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html

The Dangerous Myth That Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12512645001

"Myth"? yeah right.

BTW.. my Democratic Party got the BLUE WAVE Midterms with Moderates and Independent VOTERS.. Flipping over 40 red seats to BLUE..

BS "didn't even see that happening".. It Happened Anyway.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) thinks there is reason to doubt the predicted "blue wave" in next month'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211306674

[redqueen]

55. It truly seems that way, yes. nt

[Cha]

61. It's truly the other way around.. BS is the divider

BS called the whole Dem Party "Elite" after the fascists took over the WH..

AFTER THE GENERAL "ELECTION".

Bernie Sanders 'deeply humiliated' Democrats lost white working-class voters

Washington (CNN)Sen. Bernie Sanders expressed his disappointment Monday with Hillary Clinton's failure to secure the support of white working-class voters in last week's presidential election.

Donald Trump "very effectively" tapped into "the anger and angst and pain that many working class people are feeling," the Vermont independent senator who challenged Clinton in the Democratic primary said on "CBS This Morning."

"I think that there needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business," Sanders said. "It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from."

https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/14/politics/bernie-sanders-humiliated-democrats-loss-working-class-voters/index.html

The Dangerous Myth That Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12512645001

"Myth"? yeah right.

BTW.. my Democratic Party got the BLUE WAVE Midterms with Moderates and Independent VOTERS.. Flipping over 40 red seats to BLUE..

BS "didn't even see that happening".. It Happened Anyway.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) thinks there is reason to doubt the predicted "blue wave" in next month'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211306674



BS is the one who says he's Not a Democrat.

[emmaverybo]

160. An apologist for Trump voters and then bashes Dems. Hilary got cheated. She did not lose. Instead

of reserving his anger for voter fraud and suppression and the Russian attack on our democratic process, he played the blame card and opportunistically tried to exploit Hilary’s trumped up, manufactured loss to paint himself as the nation's savior, the one who could have appealed to white working class bigots if only the Dem party had not obstructed him.

Now he’s the only one who can transform the party by shaping it after his own image. I sometimes wonder if he knows what he’s saying. Blaming Hilary? Casting himself as the white working-class whisperer?

[Cha]

161. It was a terrible statement to make..

The thing is though.. that BS jumped on falsely blaming Hillary and the Dems.. before all the information came out about the Russians interfering with our election process and all the analysis of what actually happened.

The Dangerous Myth That Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/hillary-clinton-working-class/509477/

Mahalo, emmaverybo~

[emmaverybo]

163. Appalling statement. After he had the facts and knew Russians had tried to help him, he did not

Last edited Fri Jan 31, 2020, 04:13 AM - Edit history (1)

recant and he continues in this blame vein whether he mentions Hilary or not.

[Cha]

165. Right.. exactly. he just let

it lay there.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

114. The Democratic Party ignores Bernie @it's own risk. Bernie's been speakin truth to power for decades

trying to show Democrats the way forward in adopting a bold progressive agenda over a moderate incrementalist approach, which will now lead us to "The Promised Land."

New Bernie supporters are coming to this realization that so many of us have long known, joining the revolution, and following Bernie's lead, knowing it's the ONLY way to ensure tRumpty Dumbty's defeat.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[McKim]

43. Sanders is in The Democratic Party Candidate Basket for a Reason

Sanders is in the Democratic Party Basket for a Reason. He does represent a large part the Left Wing of the party. He could then, if not winning the primaries, pass his support onto the candidate that who best embodies his platform. Just like in the last presidential election, he threw in his support for Hilary and she did incorporate some of his ideas in her platform. So I don’t see him as being divisive, necessarily.

[CaptainTruth]

45. "If the Democratic Party is going to succeed ... it's gonna have to open its door to Independents."

Why does Bernie think that door is closed?

What Democrats are going around telling Independents that the party door is closed to them? I haven't heard anyone saying that.

[Cha]

48. They are NOT.. BS is just trying to throw

shade. Fail.

[Thekaspervote]

59. Per usual!! With polls out today giving Biden the lead in NH & IA ...must be feeling..not so good!

[Cha]

64. ...

[Thekaspervote]

69. Yup yup yup!!

[Kurt V.]

49. well yeah. :)

[Gothmog]

60. Who is surprised by this?

[Bradical79]

67. Hopefuly no one as it was openly said in 2017 lol

[Cha]

172. lol nobody

[Bradical79]

66. To the person who alerted on this...

It is not "Don't keep fighting the last Democratic presidential primary" as Sanders said it after the last presidential elections, and we're in a new primary campaign.

While I couldn't care less whether Sanders considers himself an actual Democrat, and I think it's a stupid thing to dwell on, I don't think it's out of bounds on a Democratic Party Primaries forum.

BTW, I really wish we still had the ability to write directly in a jury vote (or alert) textbox our reasoning.

[Scotch-Irish]

68. Not so subtle Bernie bashing thread #2006

Aren't you guys getting tired of trying to cut his legs out from under him? Little snippy posts?

[Cha]

72. "Not so subtle" attempt to distract from what BS

is actually saying.


Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat" From 2017..

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

110. Tired? Hell no! Indeed Bernie bashing continues unabated, at an accelerated pace, but dont despair

That's how you know Bernie is surging!! So, celebrate the Bernie bashfest... I do!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[revmclaren]

80. If he ran as an independent

he would be forever branded as the candidate that destroyed America by giving us tRump again.

Sanders wouldn't do this because he loves this country.

Why do YOU think he would run as an independent???



ONLY!!! 2020 and beyond.

[Cha]

83. OH Please.. BS is the one who said..

Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat" From 2017..

That's "Divisive".

[George II]

92. Mahalo!

[Cha]

93. lol..

You're Welcome!

[MasonDreams]

78. Vote blue no matter who applies to you too.

Hope & Change I have a right, to support a candidate that wants fundemental change.

If he doesn't get the votes, I'll go with the guy who promises " nothing will fundamentally change".

If you work hard and play by the rules, you should not have your whole family financially crippled, and reduced to GoFundMe begging because of a medical issue.

[Cha]

79. Which has nothing to do with the OP

Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat" From 2017..

[MasonDreams]

90. Big Tent WE make collective decisions by voting.

Bernie is running in the Democratic Primary and WE are lucky to have him. Personally, I think we should elect Jimmy Carter with Al Gore as VP.

This would show the world that we think we made terrible mistakes and almost destroyed the planet with WWIII and Climate Catastrophe, but now we've seen the light. An important added bonus, the world would see that we haven't completely twisted, contorted, and denied the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
The Fundamentalists also need Change.

Don't misunderstand me I am all about Seperation of Church and State. But...

If I can't have JCarter & Al Gore high fiven Greta in the White House, I'll settle for Bernie.

[Cha]

94. The OP is BS saying in his own words

he's not a Democratic. Nobody else said it.. he did.

[jg10003]

84. posts like this only helps trump. like it or not, Bernie is running

in the democratic primary. He may even win. So what is the purpose of these types of posts? I support Bernie because I agree with his policies and I believe he can beat trump. You might feel the same way about Biden, Warren, or Buttigieg. But arguing about who is a card carrying member of the DNC is divisive, pointless, and can only help trump.

[Cha]

85. They are BS' own words..

Talk to his campaign.

Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat" From 2017.

[ehrnst]

88. Reporting his very own words "helps Trump?"

Are you sure that you want to be saying that about a candidate running on the Democratic ticket?

[Happy Hoosier]

98. Ya know Bernie said this, right?

Maybe consider talking to him.

[Cha]

120. BS shouldn't have said it, then.

[emmaverybo]

178. Then why did Bernie say it? The post is only repeating what Bernie said. So you find

Bernie’s statement divisive? This is not something Bernie is accused of. He said he wasn’t a Democratic Party member and HE brings up the DNC, accusing it of working against him.

Actually, no other candidate criticizes the Dem party, so no other candidate shows any division between him or herself and the party except for Bernie, whom, true, some claim creates that division.

Do you believe Bernie is giving Trump and Republicans ammo against our party for the GE? Will they use his criticism of our party against us?

[ehrnst]

86. In his own words. (nt)

[Cha]

123. Yep.. they can't argue that.

[Quackers]

124. You wanna bet?

It’s becoming very cult-like. Even if he beats the odds and becomes the nominee, I’m not sure he would accept it. He ran in Democratic races and won before, only to turn down the nomination and continue on as an independent. I honestly think this is just his way of trying to eliminate the competition so he won’t have to worry about losing votes from the left when he runs as an independent in the general.

[Cha]

125. No.. I know

they do.. lol.

[betsuni]

89. K&R

[NurseJackie]

91. Good to know... because I will ONLY vote for Democrats. ONLY!

[Cha]

101. Yes, BS has admitted it.

Jackie

[helpisontheway]

96. Exactly..Yet his supporters on DU seek to get your posts deleted if you say the same thing.nt

[musicman65]

99. Then it should be clear

as the sky in Hawaii,that Joe is our only hope and prayer

[Uncle Joe]

105. You know Cha, I remember the days when you and I both supported Al Gore

and you know what the corporate media conglomerates did to him precisely because he did champion opening the Internet for the people, they were afraid their power and wealth would be at threat.

Why do you buy this bullshit about superficial labels now instead of the critical issues affecting the American People?

Thanks for the thread Cha.

[Cha]

106. These are BS' own words.. sorry if you don't like

what he has to say.

[Uncle Joe]

109. Who gives a f*%K

Bernie is running as a Democrat and should he win the day, he will govern as such and in the history books they will list him as a Democratic President should he win.

I believe and I always thought you believed the issues were much more important than labels.

[Cha]

112. Apparently you don't.. others do.

[Uncle Joe]

113. The issues have always mattered more to me than labels Cha,

I used to think you believed the same.

[Cha]

140. BS' "issues"..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

FALSE!

Link to tweet

[highplainsdem]

108. K&R!

[Iamaartist]

111. He Is No Donkey,,,,

[kwolf68]

115. Well

If the Democratic Party was more like the party of FDR then he would be a Democrat. I hope to bring the party back to that one day.

[Cha]

116. the Democratic Party brought us the BLUE WAVE Midterm

HOUSE VICTORY of 2018. Why We Were Able TO #IMPEACH45.. so don't go dragging on my Democratic Party.

We are ON the Front Lines NOW FIGHTING Extreme Fascism.. don't go telling me about FDR.. that was then.. this is NOW.

[Cornell Engineer]

182. There were powerful fascist forces alive and well in America in the 1930s

as there were socialist forces. The economic despair caused by the Great Depression fostered some pretty extremist movements on both sides of the political spectrum. The reason why FDR was such a great President is that he was able to successfully navigate a narrow path and not fall prey to either one.

But getting back to your comment about the Dems' House victory of 2018...

Joe Biden’s Powerful Weapon In His Fight With Bernie Sanders: Vulnerable House Democrats

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-2020-house-democrats

I think a Sanders nomination could very well prove disastrous. Not only would Fuhrer Drumpf likely beat him but Dems would probably fail to win back the Senate and could conceivably lose the House. Even if Bernie were to beat Trump it would likely be a squeaker and I don't want a nail-biter when it comes to ousting that rotten SOB in the White House. Plus having Bernie as President with a Senate AND House controlled by the GOP would just be more political paralysis in DC.

America has been on auto-pilot for 3 years and can't go much longer without running outta fuel or slamming into a mountain.

Vote Biden. Beat Trump.

[Tarheel_Dem]

117. BS and I finally agree on something.

[Cha]

118. Aloha, Tarheel

[Tarheel_Dem]

121. Aloha Dear Cha.

[Cha]

122. Aloha!

[guillaumeb]

126. However, Sanders also said:

"If the Democratic Party is going to succeed - and I want to see it succeed - it's gonna have to open its door to Independents," he continued.

"There are probably more Independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."

Note that he said, "-and I want it to succeed".

This sounds more positive than negative.

[LiberalLovinLug]

142. It is more positive.

Some peoples only purpose on this board seems to be twisting every positive into a negative when it comes to Sanders.

[ehrnst]

143. Some people do the very same thing with HRC.

So there's that.

[Cha]

158. Some people twist Biden's words..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Attack Biden for the same thing BS did...hmmm?

Link to tweet

[Cha]

171. No.. that was Wrong.. The Dem Party had/has/will Always OPEN

the Door to Independents.

Check OUT The 2018 Blue Wave Midterm Victory.

It's the 3rd Party Stein voters who Rejected the Dem party and BS hired them for his Top Staff.

[guillaumeb]

173. It was Sanders' opinion.

And he stated that he would support the Democratic nominee.

[Cha]

174. Well BS' "opinion" was Wrong. Facts don't back his "opinion".

[lapucelle]

128. Meanwhile, the guy who claimed to be a "better feminist" than VT Governor Madeleine Kunin

based on apocryphal "commitment, support, and substantive accomplishment"...

...delivered a brief speech Saturday at the Seacoast Women’s March in Portsmouth, saying that"we are in this together.”

snip===============================================================================

Sanders did not stay to march, heading instead to the next campaign stop.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/bernie-sanders-madeleine-kunin-feminism/

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/01/18/us/politics/ap-us-election-2020-warren-sanders-1st-ld-writethru.html

[Cha]

129. Jesus!

[musicman65]

131. As clear

as the sky in Hawaii

[Cha]

132. It's not always "clear", fyi.

[oasis]

136. Was Bernie telling voters they don't need a bona fide Democrat in the WH?

[peggysue2]

139. Yes, because the Dems are so flawed, so inept . . .

so Republican-lite. Only Bernie can save us from ourselves.

[betsuni]

166. The Democratic Party has "got to open its doors to working people": he thinks

for some reason that it's the party of corrupt elites, same as Republicans. Who knows why.

[Cha]

186. he's wrong..

[wyldwolf]

167. why would a party nominate a presidential candidate who so obviously feels they're beneath him?

[Cha]

168. Shouldn't.

[Scurrilous]

169. Thanks Cha!

[Cha]

170. No worries!

[emmaverybo]

177. Why isn't Bernie running on a grassroots party? This grassroots stuff is rubbish. He is running

with the help of the Dem party infrastructure and big, dark donor money.

[Cornell Engineer]

181. What Sanders says makes no sense

"If the Democratic Party is going to succeed - and I want to see it succeed - it's gonna have to open its door to Independents," he continued. "There are probably more Independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."

The vast majority of Indies (or more accurately speaking a plurality of 43%) are moderates...not far left progressives (of which I am one). In fact, there are more Independents who consider themselves conservative than liberal...29% to 24%. Independents are far more likely to vote for a moderate or at least a traditional liberal than an uber-progressive self-proclaimed far-left Socialist.

Political Independents: Who They Are, What They Think

https://www.people-press.org/2019/03/14/political-independents-who-they-are-what-they-think/

If Bernie really wants many of those Indies to vote Democratic he should advocate nominating Biden instead of throwing out word-salad gibberish.

[Cha]

184. Exactly.

[oasis]

188. Some hitch hikers need to be reminded they don't own the car. nt

[Scurrilous]

191. Ouch!

[Cha]

192. lol