Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumJoe Biden Says He'd Defy Subpoena to Testify in Trump's Senate Trial
Returning to the campaign trail after Christmas, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. on Friday stood by his comments that he would not comply with a subpoena to testify at President Trumps impeachment trial in the Senate.
In a meeting with the editorial board of The Des Moines Register, whose endorsement in the Iowa caucuses is coveted by presidential hopefuls, Mr. Biden argued that complying with a subpoena and testifying would essentially allow Mr. Trump to succeed in shifting attention onto Mr. Biden and away from the presidents own actions.
The reason I wouldnt is because its all designed to deal with Trump doing what hes done his whole life: trying to take the focus off him, Mr. Biden told the newspaper. The issue is not what I did.
This is all about a diversion, Mr. Biden added. And we play his game all the time. Hes done it his whole career.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/27/us/politics/joe-biden-trump-trial.html
Isn't Biden undercutting the 2nd Article of Impeachment against Trump, Obstruction of Congress for ignoring Congressional supoenas?
https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Articles%20of%20Impeachment.pdf
Just saw on CNN the hosts making this very point, why can Biden say he will ignore a supoena when Trump is being impeached in part for doing that himself?
This seems like an unforced error on Biden's part, handing the Republicans a gift of an excuse for not voting to remove Trump from office. Why did Joe even bring this up now?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,485 posts)Biden isn't on trial.
The subpoenas that Trump and his minions are ignoring are all directly related to impeachment. Biden's subpoena would be Trump targeting a potential political opponent, based on nothing but debunked conspiracy theories.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Witnesses are often supeonaed.
Biden just muddied the waters immensely and gave the Republicans a gigantic excuse to let Trump off the hook.
Why did Joe even make this statement now when the news cycle would be sure to run with it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)Its not that complicated, and he should not be giving cover to the pukes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bluewater
(5,376 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)being made accountable is another story, but just wait if Biden doesn't respond to one.
Anyway, that is not the issue, the real issue is that Joe should have not responded the way he did, he just justified the lack of respect from republicans who have been ignoring subpoenas, and that is a big mistake. So now he sends a tweet to explain what he said and what he has done regarding subpoenas.
Bad formula...put your foot in your mouth, next day clarify what you meant to say. People already know what you said when you put your foot in your mouth, there is no going back.
So easy to just say "No comment"...so easy
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Biden said he has always complied with legitimate Congressional inquiries...
So does that mean he WILL comply if supeonaed by the Republican Senate or not?
Some posters are saying it means he will challenge any such supeona in court as being illegitimate, but I don't see Joe actually saying that.
This seems like a second unforced error on Joe's part, issuing a clarification that isn't clear and can be used by Republicans to justify Trumps illegal actions obstructing Congress.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)I hate to say it but he has, once again, put his foot in his mouth. I wish he would stop to think before he opens his mouth, there is nothing wrong with taking a breather to make sure his answers will not get him in trouble.
I am very worried about some of Biden's supporters taking an attitude of not wanting to listen or being objective, it keeps bringing up in my memory what the con said about shooting someone and not loosing any votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
samnsara
(17,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
janterry
(4,429 posts)should he get the nod.
We can do so much better than this
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)is not the way to go.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
janterry
(4,429 posts)That's not a talking point. It's what I believe -
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Perseus
(4,341 posts)I do believe very strongly he cannot win. I will support him if he gets the nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Biden is the only one who can take the mid west...but I sure as hell won't sign on to any conspiracy theories against either Warren or Sanders...nor would I help the right wing by spouting their talking points ...not saying you do this ...as some have done with the Hunter thing-those who support other candidates-again not saying you. Trump is going to be 'exonerated' (not really but it gives him cover) and we will lose no matter who runs unless this stops.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)The right answer would have been one like this "I won't comment on that, the trial is about trump not about me, there should not be any subpoena presented to me, and I believe there won't, if the media wants to play that game, I won't." or just simply "I won't comment on that, I am not going to play the media's games." or even better "I won't comment on that."
But now he has condoned the actions by republicans to ignore subpoenas. Wrong answer Joe...damn it!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Zoonart
(11,879 posts)this just opens the door wide for the MSM to run they tired ass both siderism argument devoid of context.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)And now Joe has sent a tweet to "clarify" what he said. I keep saying it, he needs someone by his side who can cut him off and provide the right answer. A "No comment" would have been perfect, now he has opened a can of worms.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kingofalldems
(38,487 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)This unforced error on Biden's part reinforces Trumps refusal to obey 71 Congressional supeonas because he felt they too were not "lawful".
You can't put qualifications on Congressional supeaonas, THEY ARE ALL LAWFUL.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kingofalldems
(38,487 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)It's this simple, NEVER say you will not comply with a Congressional supeona.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kingofalldems
(38,487 posts)That enough for you?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)What's so hard to understand about that?
No one should ignore Congressional supeonas.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kingofalldems
(38,487 posts)What's so hard to understand about that?
Do you have evidence he is a fact witness?
If no I wonder why you focus on Biden's response and not the criminal republican/Trumpites trying to muddy the waters?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Um, no.
You simply MUST show up. Period. Trump is trampling on centuries of historic precedence in refusing to comply with 71 Congressional supeonas. Its the ENTIRE basis of the 2nd Article of Impeachment against him. The argument is that Trump cannot ignore ALL 71 supeonas by claiming Executive privilege so broadly.
Are you now claiming politicians, or anyone else, can now simply refuse to comply with a Congressional supeona?
Can you please point out examples, beside cases invoking Executive branch privilege, where ANYONE was allowed to not comply with a Congressional supeona?
I think not.
We either believe in our institutions and that the rule of law applies to everyone, or we are no better than the Republicans.
If supeonaed, Biden must appear. It's that straight forward.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lexee
(377 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)GOP types have complied. You see Barr testifying in Congress?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lexee
(377 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Perseus
(4,341 posts)We have to be objective, we have to recognize when our candidate does or says something that we know will bite him/her later, that we do not condone it, instead lets make his campaign know we are not happy with it so they can do something about it. We run the risk of having Biden think that if he shoots someone on fifth avenue in plain daylight that we will still vote for him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Perseus
(4,341 posts)But you did give the wrong answer, and now you are trying to fix it.
Next time take a breath, a long one, before you answer. Think hard about what you are about to say, then don't say anything, just say "No comment", or "I will get back to you", or "This is an irrelevant question."...I don't know, something that works well for you, that doesn't give republicans a justification for ignoring subpoenas because now republicans can say "The same way Biden would ignore subpoenas is why we are doing it, we don't find them credible and to hell with the rule of law, I think we and Biden are on this together." and I am not that smart about these things so you can imagine what republicans will say.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Peacetrain
(22,879 posts)Trump and company will be on trial for crimes against the Bidens and using those attacks to attack the entire country and our constitution, our democracy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bayard
(22,165 posts)Equivocate? Not his style.
The impeachment has nothing to do with Biden. Just more smoke and mirrors from the rethugs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wellst0nev0ter
(7,509 posts)"Because I got nothing to hide, unlike our criminal in chief"
It's people like Biden who keep the false equivalency lie alive with these idiotic unforced errors.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bluewater
(5,376 posts)That's the first thing Joe should have said, then he could say he would expose him being questioned as a distraction from trump's crimes against the country.
It's that simple.
Instead, this unforced error by Biden gives the Republicans excuses to cover Trump's ass.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Peacetrain
(22,879 posts)Biden has nothing to do with this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Democrats should not help the GOP this way in order to help their primary candidate...right is right. And there is no reason for Biden to testify...in fact it will almost certainly help Trump. Trump is on trial not Biden and it gives legitimacy to Trumps crimes by calling for Biden to be grilled as if it was appropriate to try to manufacture dirt on an American citizen.
It should give those who advocate this pause to consider that Trump is attacking the 2020 election using his presidential powers. The house risked everything to impeach so now are we going to screw up the Senate trial in order to advance our candidate? I sincerely hope not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)And just move on. Now he has created a controversy, he has justified republicans ignoring subpoenas "just because they don't like them", he has justified the fact that you can ignore the rule of law, etc.
So easy..."NO COMMENT", can't get easier than that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)Don't use your opponent's tactics.
Worrisome.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Scotch-Irish
(464 posts)The democratic leadership is trying to sell him, because he's one of their circle. But he doesn't think well on his feet. This was not just a stupid thing to do, it's AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION!! IT'S ILLEGAL.
I know sane people are scared, and looking behind us to a safer, saner time is only natural. But it won't work in this new world. We have to have courage to step into this new world, and look ahead. The third world war is already being fought, against Russia and China and Saudi Arabia (of 9/11 fame) on the long-game cyber and economic fronts. And the Arab/Russian run Faux News propaganda channel (look at who holds the stock for the company) has everyone in America pulled apart at the seams.
Nobody is talking about what a lethal weapon the supreme court handed our enemy when they ruled that Fox was "an entertainment channel" and free speech meant they didn't have to tell the truth. THAT is the can of worms that the republican-held court opened up to hand our country to the propaganda that rules almost half of our country.
The republican supreme court also ruled (Citizens United) that corporations could contribute to PACs in pretty much unlimited amounts...again calling it "free speech". And the ownership of those corporations (stockholders) are from ALL countries. So they ruled that any country can buy our politicians.
We are on a whole new battlefield, no matter how many guns and bombs and tanks and planes and warships our military/industrial complex can sell. And because of the old rulers, we're losing this war. They refuse to see what we're in the middle of, because of an old mind-set that wants a Joe Biden or a Bloomberg to win. It won't work.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)That's good news and should make us all happy.
Right?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)trump would love against Warren or sanders. If Warren or sanders I the nominee, then trump will win 45+ states
I admit that I am biased in that I and a good number of real Democrats have been working hard to turn Texas blue. After the 2010 election, the GOP had 101 seats in the Texas House and the Democrats had 49. During the 2018 elections we flipped two congressional seats (Lizzie Fletcher and Colin Allred) and 12 state house seats. We are 9 seats away from taking control of the Texas House. The DCCC has targeted six congressional seats in Texas and we are hopeful that MJ Hegar can defeat Cornyn
If Texas is a battleground state, then the GOP will have to devote significant resources to Texas. No GOP candidate can win the electoral college if Texas is blue
If Warren or sanders is the nominee, Texas will not be a battleground state. MFA is unpopular and taking away private insurance coverage would kill down ballot candidates in Texas.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)lose the general...if we run left. We won't take the mid west states we need.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)The polls are what the polls are.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)I agree with you, Biden cannot win.
I have been saying for a while that republicans are coning the country into thinking they are afraid of Biden, THEY WANT BIDEN, they know Biden will come with gaffe after gaffe (just like the one we are discussing on this post), and that is exactly what they want.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)poll... Well if some keep it up (not saying you), no one will be able stop Trump and then we are all fucked.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turin_C3PO
(14,077 posts)In poll after poll Biden beats Trump by the largest margin. Warren or Sanders WILL NOT WIN the swing states. I wish that wasnt the case, but it is. We need to vote in the primaries for someone who will beat Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Sure I vote blue no matter who...but I like winning.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
janterry
(4,429 posts)n/t
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... were right to ignore congressional subpoenas. They have no legitimacy." I do believe the Republicans are getting away with it so far because they've all taken it to court as a delaying tactic.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)You must fight Tyrants not cave...I don't care if you like Biden or not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... in court or you're breaking the law. And the Republicans are loving this!!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)attacking Biden for Trump or even some of our own candidates...lot of wishful thinking going on here...but It will work out just fine for Biden IMHO. My worry is that some are giving Trump cover in the hope of advancing their candidates and that should never happen. Removing Trump is my priority period.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)He just admitted that if he is subpoenaed that he will break the law, that he will ignore it, that he justifies republicans refusal to comply because they don't believe in its validity...this is not about fighting republicans, this is about saying the wrong thing.
So many things he could have said, or maybe just keep his mouth shut and ignore the question, but no, he had to go and say the wrong thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)It is really shitty seeing some here ...not saying you... playing Trump's game in order to hurt a great Democrat like Biden and for what?It kind of makes me want to puke.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Biden is truthful and he should not honor a subpoena anyway based on nothing and most likely illegal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)It will take 51 votes in the Senate to issue a subpoena for Joe to testify. If that happens, Joe will testify but it will also be clear that the Senate is not interested in conducting a fair trial
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,438 posts)how we hear all of the time how Democrats should stop "playing by the rules" if Republicans are breaking them, but when we decide to do just that, suddenly it's a problem. My knee-jerk response to this on Twitter is that Biden didn't really do anything wrong and him agreeing to honor a Subpoena to Trump's Impeachment Trial would likely be a farce and would give Republicans a platform to do what Trump was trying to do anyway, which is smear Biden and his son? After listening to some other arguments, I'm not sure if that was really such a good idea, but I think that most people see through Trump's tactics on this. Heck, attempting to smear Biden is what got Trump into trouble in the first place.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bitterross
(4,066 posts)I understand and fully support his position. Neither he, nor his son, have any knowledge of the actions for which Trump was impeached. There is absolutely no reason for him or Hunter to be called. Other than, as Biden points out, to change the lead in the news.
My first opinion on this was I'd have preferred he defer and say "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it." Then I started think about that. Since he's said it now and it's getting the headlines NOW, maybe it WON'T be as big a story if they do subpoena him later and he refuses. It probably won't take the headlines away from the real issue - Trump - as much as it would have otherwise, if the time comes. It will be covered, of course, but it won't be breaking news then. It will be "Biden does what he said he'd do. Republicans have to go to court now."
By saying it now, it lets the steam out now. Sure, FOX will make a big deal of it again, and again, and again. We're never going to get he hardcore FOX viewer anyway. By the time the subpoena him, hopefully, for everyone else it will just be "ho-hum" though.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,869 posts)which is exactly what he should do since he's not a percipient witness and he has no information relevant to issues to be raised in the impeachment trial.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)This defiance seems to be a validation of the GOP idea that the Courts can be ignored, as can due process.
If one truly respects the process, one must abide by the process.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
janterry
(4,429 posts)so it was a mistake
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Will he comply with a Congressional supeona or not?
Will he challenge a Congressional supeona in court or not?
Perhaps the clarification needs more clarifying?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,619 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,234 posts)"I want to clarify something I said yesterday. In my 40 years in public life, I have always complied with a lawful order and in my eight years as VP, my office unlike Donald Trump and Mike Pence cooperated with legitimate congressional oversight requests," Biden tweeted Saturday morning. "But I am just not going to pretend that there is any legal basis for Republican subpoenas for my testimony in the impeachment trial. That is the point I was making yesterday and I reiterate: this impeachment is about Trumps conduct, not mine."
Biden went on to say that the Senate should subpoena White House officials who were witnesses to "Trumps shaking down the Ukraine government."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-clarifies-after-saying-he-wouldnt-comply-with-impeachment-related-subpoena/ar-BBYqa3e?li=BBnb7Kz
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
randr
(12,417 posts)He has no reason to answer a hypothetical question
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
randr
(12,417 posts)He got sucked into the game they play. He was thrown a bone and he picked it up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)the trial of Donald Trump will instantly become the trial of Joe Biden. The smear machine will kick into gear and we will be asked, What does Joe have to hide?, and they will say, What father wouldnt try to protect their children.
This is a bump in the road that could get worse, or not. Trump, et al, are itching to make this all about rooting out corruption in Ukraine. And, drawing the Bidens in as conspirators. Joe Biden cant just Malarkey this one out of the way. Trump is going to fight for his life on this point and just saying you wont show because its not about me wont be enough, IMO.
Joes team should have been ready for this question and have a tested response ready to go. The first thing we thought here was, Oh no, dont just say you wont show. It just sounds bad, no matter what the reason, to say youll defy a subpoena.
Yeah, Democrats have to live up to a different standard. Thats what makes it easier to sleep at night. Many of us arent rich enough to get away from it all, or religious enough to pray it all away. So, all we have left is honesty and dignity and peace of mind we are doing the right thing.
I think Joe Biden should make a press release and say, Of course Ill comply, Im an honest man, and Im a Democrat, we always do the right and honest thing. And, Look, Im human, like all of you. And, we all know what Trump is gonna do here. Hes gonna try to make this about me and my son. His Yes-Men in the Senate are itching to shame me, because they are scared, scared because Trump is a criminal and compromised. And, they know Trump is scared too. So yes, Ill show up, something Trump would never do. Ill show up and talk to the American people, people I love and respect. Ill tell them the truth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)don't stand and fight...they have ignored multiple subpoenas...so why should we honor any that McConnell puts forth?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)if played right. Its unfortunate this whole issue is front and center, but it is. Sure, I want him to tell them to screw off. But, in reality, even fighting the subpoena in court or wherever will draw even more attention to Joe. Thats politics. Trump is assembling a team of slimy lawyers to work this for him. If Biden can convince them he will come out on top on this, they wont call him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
no_hypocrisy
(46,202 posts)their subpoenas. (Biden's refusal legitimizes Trump's refusal which thereby makes the Trump refusal legitimate.)
Biden's testimony is irrelevant to the premises and charges being promulgated. Trump & WH is essential and central thereto.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sandensea
(21,674 posts)If Cheeto, who IS under investigation (and has been impeached) refuses to show up for any of his congressional subpoenas, Biden - who IS NOT under investigation whatsoever - should have the right to avoid being subjected to GOPee showboating.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Aaron Pereira
(383 posts)Trump and McConnell are clearly trying to make Biden's conduct the issue and confuse it with Trump's malfeasance. Any ethical problem with Joe Biden is a totally separate issue that should be examined separately.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided