Nader supporter Michael Moore needs to shut up

[Dem4Life1102]

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/michael-moore-trump-will-win-in-2020-if-democrats-nominate-another-centrist-moderate-like-hillary-clinton/

[NurseJackie]

1. Fuck you, Michael Moore!

He's a complete waste of human flesh.

[The Valley Below]

6. That's a lot of waste.

[ChubbyStar]

137. Sad

To think some people have gotten hides defending him, oh sorry that did not happen. Carry on.

[erronis]

8. I can think of some others that need your scorn a lot more. But that's pretty scornful.

Hope you're not a real nurse!

[NurseJackie]

12. Don't worry, I'll get to them too.

I can think of some others that need your scorn a lot more.

Don't worry, I'll get to them too.

But that's pretty scornful.

Thank you.

Hope you're not a real nurse!

[Gothmog]

29. It is easier to just ignore Moore

No one is paying attention to him

[comradebillyboy]

101. The talking heads on MSNBC love his sorry ass.

They give him way too much air time.

[Gothmog]

103. Espically Chris Hayes

I either change channels or play something on my DVR when Moore comes on

[still_one]

33. +++

[mcar]

130. Well said

[Farmer-Rick]

217. Is Nadar running in the 2020 Democratic primary? This post seems to imply that.

What year did Nadar run in? Talk about fighting over the past election.

[NurseJackie]

234. This isn't about Nader... it's about the treacherous Michael Moore who supported Nader...

Is Nadar running in the 2020 Democratic primary?

This isn't about Nader... it's about the treacherous Michael Moore who supported Nader over Gore and who declared to his "followers" that "a vote for Gore is the same as a vote for Bush". In saying that, the implication, of course, is the ongoing bullshit lie that "both parties are the same''.

This post seems to imply that.

No it doesn't.

Talk about fighting over the past election.

Nobody is doing that. Anyone who reads carefully can easily see what it's about. Michael Moore is a ratfucker. His motives are always suspect, as are his loyalties.

[elleng]

2. He's thoughtful, studied, and often right, no reason at all to suggest he 'shut up.'

[NurseJackie]

11. He's "right" no more often than any other asshole pundit...

and often right, no reason at all to suggest he 'shut up.'

He's "right" no more often than any other asshole pundit. The difference is, he never fails to shout it from the rooftops whenever he accidentally guesses correctly. He's no more insightful than the hit-and-miss guessing-game psychics who boast and crow about their successful guesses (while conveniently forgetting about their misses.)

There are plenty of reasons to suggest that he shut up. He's not thoughtful either. He's an arrogant slob who wouldn't know what a bottle of shampoo is if you put it in his hands and told him "this is shampoo, use it!"

He's a Nader and Stein supporter and a hater of Democrats and the Democratic party. Fuck him!

[CatMor]

17. Couldn't have said it better myself ....

I agree with you 100%.

[ChiTownDenny]

18. +1

Last edited Fri Dec 27, 2019, 05:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary isn't president because of James Comey and Vladimir Putin.

[booley]

63. Thats not why

Seriously, we need to stop being in denial about how and why Trump won.

[elleng]

69. Thanks

https://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

[ChiTownDenny]

73. LOL!

[Hortensis]

75. Yes. Russian lies. Far-left lies. Republican lies.

And massive electoral interference of every possible type. I don't think there are many who don't suspect those Russian hacks of every state's election computer systems may also have changed some numbers.

As for Moore, this behavior is his nature. We don't really believe his claim that Obama told Flint parents to serve their children poison water, right?

[sacto95834]

189. It won't get better...

until the party looks inward and try to understand why Trump won. I'm sure this has been discussed that Trump is the outcome/symptom of our national politics.

It's easy to blame somebody for HRC's loss. But the answer is deeper. Michael Moore does not have all the answers but what he says has merit as much as many Democrats don't want to hear it.

His analysis is correct as far as Michigan is concerned as it's backed up by the 2016 election results: Democrats under- performed in key strongholds. You may choose not to believe his analysis as to why that is, but the data is there and his analysis is strong.

To dismiss his opinion is folly and may lead to something even worse than Trump.

[betsuni]

196. Trump won because of increased partisanship and identity based on race.

"The economy had improved since the Great Recession and voters realized it, but their assessments of Obama and the country were less favorable than the economy alone might have predicted. At the same time, however, there was little evidence of any increase in 'voter anger' leading into the election year -- and no clear signs of a 'change election' predicated on growing anger. ... Anger clearly depended on partisan and racial identities. This was visible in the polarization of Democrats and Republicans in their approval of Obama, their perceptions of the economy and increasingly their views of racial, ethnic and religious minorities. And because racial attitudes evoke angry emotions in ways that other political attitudes do not, radicalization may help explain why some whites appeared angry despite positive trends like a growing economy.

"The administration of Barack Obama was not only eight years of a Democratic president -- in which partisan polarization continued to grow -- but also eight years of a black president. As a result, Americans' racial identities and racial attitudes became even more potent political forces and helped transform the party coalition. Non-whites increasingly identified as Democrats. Whites -- and particularly whites who did not have a college degree and had less favorable views of racial and ethnic minorities -- increasingly indentified as Republican."

From "Identity Politics"

Trump voters did not look carefully at both party's positions and vote on that. They never do. Wave abortion or gays or guns or immigrants in front of their faces and they'll walk over broken glass to vote for Republicans. People with the most money voted for Trump. The "economic insecurity" didn't exist. Racism and partisanship. Republicans are the ones increasing inequality. Trump is the result of Republican politics becoming radical. Started with the Southern Strategy and politicizing evangelicals and think tanks and their own media empire. Only thing new is that Trump pretended to support non-establishment-Republican policies like anti-trade, saving social safety nets, and anti-immigration reform.

[sacto95834]

228. Agree with reservation...

Yes the US economy was ticking along nicely for the US as a whole and the professional class in particular - many in the large cities and suburbs did very well during the Obama Administration. But not all Americans...

Many Americans that live in the Rust Belt and heartland were left behind. The trade policies of the last 40 years hurt many farmers and blue collar industry workers. In addition, just look at the water problem in Flint, Michigan - nothing to do with Obama at first. No that credit belongs to the Republicans who ran Michigan. But when the Obama Administration finally noticed and flew in only to declare the water safe and drinkable, even though it clearly wasn't was probably the last straw.

With all this resentment and anger the 2016 Presidential elections were going on. Trump ran on a populist agenda of change and "Make America Great Again." I agree with all here, a bunch of BS. But that is what he campaigned on. HRC pretty much represented a continuation of the current policies that created the great economy of Obama.

HRC did very well on the coasts and in the large cities and suburbs - so well that she won the popular vote count by ~3 million. However it wasn't enough - the angry populace that was left behind did the only thing the could with their vote - they voted for Trump as a bomb to blow up DC or worse they stayed home.

If you look at the exit polls in Michigan HRC under performed in Wayne County (Detroit) and most tellingly in Genessee County (Flint). Had she matched the 2012 turnout, she would have won Michigan. Coincidence? This is Michael Moore's analysis of Michigan. Should this all just be cast aside as a "loud mouth asshole's" whining? I think not. Not if you want to win in these areas.

I also looked at Wisconsin, where HRC didn't bother to campaign in despite loosing the primary to Sanders. HRC under performed in Milwaukee which I think cost her the election there. The margin of Trump's victory here was paper thin.

IMO, Michael Moore is not the problem. He says straight out he wished he had been wrong and his worry was for naught. But he was unfortunately right. Moore is no more than the messenger - he is an award winning filmmaker and thus the press will give him air time.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

208. I thought Hillary, as the candidate, took her share of responsibility... I commend her.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

209. ... and people ignore the sage advice of MM at their own risk.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[sacto95834]

230. Thanks...

sometimes it's hard to post here as some are vicious in their reply attacks, often personal. Odd as I don't know anyone on this board personally, just from the views.

I do agree partially about HRC. Yes, she has admitted to making some mistakes, but she still blames others for her loss. Not too long ago she stated in her interview with Howard Stern that Bernie hurt her campaign. The man did his best to rally the troops for her. He did rallies and appearances and told everyone who would listen to vote for HRC as Trump was the alternative. What more did she want post convention? I was just baffled.

I thought HRC was eminently qualified to be president. In many ways the best qualified candidate the Democrats had run in years. But she had flaws and they showed. I also don't think she took Trump seriously.

But back then, who did? I know I thought he was a grifter only going through the motions to get a better deal with the network that produced his awful show. Surely everyone could see that. How awfully wrong I was and how right Michael turned out to be.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

231. Your welcome... excellent post, as usual. I agree with you on so many levels.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Well he sure was right about his prediction based on what happened or didnt happen in Michigan.

So elleng, I agree with you, instead of tellin MM to "shut up," MAYBE - not saying DEFINITELY - he has some advice worth listening to, especially if it involves voting for Bernie in the 2020 primary.

That would be MY advice... people should take it if they want to have the best chance of defeating PEE-resident Dolt45 in the general.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[George II]

34. Are you now GLOATING about Hillary Clinton losing to trump in 2016?

[NurseJackie]

70. It looks that way.

[aikoaiko]

81. I see no gloating. Just a reminder of inconvenient history.

[George II]

82. "Well he sure was right about his prediction based on what happened or didnt happen in Michigan."

[aikoaiko]

84. I really don't see that as gloating about Hillary's loss.

Just pointing out that MM had some insight last time around and enough people didn't listen then either.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

91. PRECISELY the point!! Thanks aikoaiko for NOT misrepresenting WHAT I WAS ACTUALLY SAYING!!!

How refreshing!! Though not surprising... you're always intellectually honest, even if we don't always agree.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Demsrule86]

118. Moore predicted the Democrats would lose in every election I can remember... a broken clock is right

twice a day.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

92. Was he wrong or was he right?

[George II]

97. Who, and about what?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

90. Thank you!! Intellectual honesty is always appreciated!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[RandiFan1290]

141. Hillary lost to trump

It's facts not gloating.

[George II]

143. We were talking about how "brilliant" Michael Moore was. It was gloating.

So trump beat Clinton in Michigan, and maybe, just mayyyybbbeeee, Sanders might have won. But there are 50 states, not just one.

[RandiFan1290]

144. She should have campaigned there

[George II]

146. She did.

August 11, 2016

In Warren, Clinton Lays Out the Clear Economic Choice In This Election

Clinton Calls Trump's Plan Unacceptable to Working Families and a Win for the Wealthy

In a major speech in Warren, Michigan on Thursday, Hillary Clinton highlighted her jobs and economic plan designed to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. She cast Donald Trump's economic plan as unacceptable to working families -- he proposes regurgitated Republican trickle-down economics that overwhelmingly benefits his wealthy friends, his businesses and his family, an agenda that dovetails with his record of stiffing small businesses that did work for him.

Some parts of Trump's economic plan are even worse than typical trickle-down economics, Clinton said. The plan is so beneficial to the wealthy that it includes what Clinton called a "Trump Loophole" that would allow businesses like Trump's to pay less than half the current tax rate, Clinton said. She added, "One nonpartisan expert at the Tax Policy Center described this plan as, and I quote, 'a really nice deal' for Donald Trump. Of course, it’s hard to say how nice, because he refuses to do what every other Presidential candidate in decades has done and release his tax returns."

Clinton criticized the Trump's reckless approach -- despite the recent water crisis in Flint, Michigan -- to regulation, his pessimistic vision of the United States' future and the trillions in debt his plans would add.

[NurseJackie]

159. Thank you. Another myth busted.

[betsuni]

162. She went to Flint, Michigan to do something about the water crisis before other candidates.

"When I heard about it in January, 2016, I was appalled. I asked members of my team to go to Flint right away and see if they could learn more. I also called the Mayor, Karen Weaver, and asked, 'What can I do to help?' She was eager for anything that would put a spotlight on Flint and pressure on the Governor to finally help fix things. So that's exactly what I did. I raised a ruckus out on the campaign trail and on television, and called on the Governor to declare a state of emergency, which would trigger federal aid. Within a few hours, he did. That just made me more determined to keep banging the drum. ... A couple weeks later, I went to Flint to see what was happening for myself. ... Over the next several weeks, we worked with Mayor Weaver, local pastors, the community college, the NAACP, and others to line up support and funding for a new public-private partnership that hired unemployed young people to deliver clean water to families who needed it. Chelsea made two visits of her own and helped launch the Mayor's program. People from across the country also answered the call to help.

"To me, Flint was so much more than something to rail about on the campaign trail, even if outrage is good politics. And in this case, it's possible that it wasn't good politics. I don't know if my advocacy for the heavily African-American community of Flint alienated white voters in other parts of Michigan, but it certainly didn't seem to help, as I lost the state narrowly in both the primary and the general election. Either way, that's not what it was about for me."

A couple more rallies wouldn't have made a difference.

[George II]

175. Michael Moore lives in Flint, what did he do?

[betsuni]

177. I curious about that.

I haven't seen his movie about the Flint water situation, but I'd bet cash money he didn't mention Clinton, and if he did, only for a second.

[George II]

170. Here are ALL of her campaign stops in Michigan:

November 7
-Afternoon Get Out the Vote rally at Grand Valley State University Fieldhouse in Grand Rapids, MI (+).

November 4
-GOTV rally at Eastern Market in Detroit, MI (+).

October 10
-Voter registration event at Matthaei Center, Wayne State University in Detroit, MI (+).

August 11
-Speech on working families at Futuramic Tool and Engineering in Warren, MI (+)

[betsuni]

174. Thanks, I haven't seen that before.

Why would a few more rallies change anything. I don't get it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

210. WITHOUT A DOUBT!! TRAGIC MISTAKE ON HILLARY'S PART... WHICH SHE HAS ADMITTED.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[mcar]

173. Because of all the Sanders supporters who voted for Trump in those states

[BannonsLiver]

251. If so it's probably not the first time.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

78. He didn't predict *why.*

He was correct in observing that Trump was gaining a following among blue-collar workers in Michigan and other industrial states, but the margins in those states were very close - close enough that Hillary would likely have won had it not been for outside influences having nothing to do with Hillary or other Democrats. The real question, obviously, is why Trump picked up enough votes in those states to win their EC votes, and that why now seems to have had nothing to do with Hillary being a "centrist" (she's not; she's a liberal) and a whole lot to do with Russian trolls and bots and their unexpected and undetected influence on certain voters.

[SunSeeker]

199. Thank you. Well said. nt

[lapucelle]

42. In what ways is he thoughtful and studied? N/T

[elleng]

68. Predictions

https://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

[NurseJackie]

71. That kind of negativity discourages voting. People who believe him will stay home.

He really is an ass and a jerk. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

He's not motivating anyone to do anything other than motivating them into hopelessness and despair.

Fuck him. He's gross.

[elleng]

79. No, you are wrong, but for the fact he is not physically attractive.

He explains people's reasoning and decision-making, and it's awful that so-called progressives don't take the time to recognize facts.

[NurseJackie]

80. I'm right. You're wrong.

it's awful that so-called progressives don't take the time to recognize facts.

So anyone who criticizes Moore or disagrees with him is a "so-called progressive".... Pu-leeeeze! GMAGDFB!

Michael Moore is an arrogant egotistical jerk. He's on-par with Cenk Uygur (except for the bestiality stuff). He supported Nader. He said that a vote for Gore is a vote for Bush. That's all anyone needs to know about that son of a bitch.

His only goal is to tear down the Democratic party, and he does that very thing every opportunity he gets. He says and does nothing to strengthen or grow the party. He's a crackpot and his "followers" certainly are loyal.

[elleng]

83. Good bye

[NurseJackie]

86. Thank you for the discussion.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

93. Yes, you'd think peeps would take his predictions more into account after his last ones.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[elleng]

95. REALLY!

It's FOOLISH for people not to do so.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

109. Yes, especially since he seems to have his finger on the pulse of the working class.

Why would anyone purposefully choose to ignore such valuable insight?!

Anyway, your comments on this subject are right on point... the fact that some can't see this its somewhat concerting.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[elleng]

110. Quite concerning to me.

[NurseJackie]

158. So much concern.

[justhanginon]

202. With all this concern, at this point I think maybe thoughts and prayers

might be appropriate.

[MuseRider]

124. For anyone who might not know

he has begun a podcast. It started this week. It is supposed to be one a week but he filled the week up with some interesting conversation. I have always liked him. The podcast today was really very good although there are people here would blow several gaskets if they heard it. If you can think on your own and have the capacity to be able to respect that we all have different opinions and ways to get where we want to be then it is a good podcast to listen to. It is called Rumble with Michael Moore.

[nini]

244. He's anti Democrat so fuck him hard

He’s an enemy as far as I’m concerned.

[LakeArenal]

3. Yeah About four years ago.

Trying to stay relevant.

[Gothmog]

4. I stopped paying attention to Moore a long time ago

[LenaBaby61]

26. "I stopped paying attention to Moore a long time ago."

THIS 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻


😴😴😴😴

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

232. Big mistake... MM has some excellent insight into the goings on with the working class.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Wellstone ruled]

5. Caught his interview on

something called Democracy Now. Just plain wow. He does his best to be relevant.

[elleng]

9. So did I catch it, early morning today,

and he is highly relevant.

'Something called DemocracyNOW'=
Democracy Now! is an hour-long American TV, radio and internet news program hosted by journalists Amy Goodman, who also acts as the show's executive producer, and Juan González.[1] The show, which airs live each weekday at 08:00 ET, is broadcast on the internet and by over 1,400 radio and television stations worldwide.[2]

The program combines news reporting, interviews, investigative journalism and political commentary. It documents social movements, struggles for justice, and the effects of American foreign policy. The show is described as progressive by fans as well as critics, but Goodman rejects that label, calling the program a global newscast that has "people speaking for themselves."[1] Democracy Now! describes its staff as "includ[ing] some of this country's leading progressive journalists."[3]

Democracy Now Productions, the independent nonprofit organization which produces Democracy Now!, is funded entirely through contributions from listeners, viewers, and foundations such as the Ford Foundation,[failed verification] Lannan Foundation, J.M. Kaplan Fund,[4][5][6][unreliable source?] and does not accept advertisers, corporate underwriting or government funding.[7]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Now!

Amy Goodman (born April 13, 1957)[1] is an American broadcast journalist, syndicated columnist, investigative reporter, and author. Her investigative journalism career includes coverage of the East Timor independence movement and Chevron Corporation's role in Nigeria. Since 1996, she has been the main host of Democracy Now!, a progressive global news program broadcast daily on radio, television and the Internet. She is the recipient of numerous awards, including the Thomas Merton Award in 2004, a Right Livelihood Award in 2008, and an Izzy Award in 2009 for "special achievement in independent media".

In 2012, Goodman received the Gandhi Peace Award for a "significant contribution to the promotion of an enduring international peace". She is the author of six books, including the 2012 The Silenced Majority: Stories of Uprisings, Occupations, Resistance, and Hope,[3] and the 2016 Democracy Now!: Twenty Years Covering the Movements Changing America.[4] In 2016, she was criminally charged in connection with her coverage of protests of the Dakota Access pipeline.[5] The charges, which were condemned by the Committee to Protect Journalists, were dismissed on October 17, 2016.[6]

She was awarded the I.F. Stone Medal for Journalistic Independence by Harvard's Nieman Foundation in 2014.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Goodman

[Wellstone ruled]

13. Thanks for the info.

Used to kind of seek her program out years ago until she loaded up with questionable Interviews. Lost total interest until someone posted the Moore interview,now I know why I lost interest.

[sacto95834]

233. Amy Goodman is an excellent journalist....

Goodman is one of the very few journalist that will make no deals with her guests as to what can or cannot be discussed in her interviews. If you choose to go on her show or be interviewed by her, she is free to ask any question or follow up on any topic relevant. Hence many politicians stay clear of her.

If you bother to watch or listen to her, she is very fair to her guests. She will pose a question and ask for your comment and sit there while you answer. She will then press you if you don't answer the question or continue with the same line of questioning. I've never heard her scream or interrupt the person she is interviewing. In many ways she reminds me of a European journalist.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Thank you for that... very interesting!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[George II]

35. Democracy Now was founded by Amy Goodman. Enough said.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

48. It was an interesting interview... people completely dismiss him at their own risk.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

211. Yes, it was VERY insightful.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[BannonsLiver]

7. Trump winning is good for Michael Moore, Inc.

The disheveled fossil in the uniform of a 10 year old boy still has followers who lap up his doom porn like candy, unfortunately.

[TreasonousBastard]

164. He made some interesting movies, but that doesn't make him an interesting speaker.

[NNadir]

168. I certainly like that locution.

[PhoenixDem]

10. K&R n/t

[progressoid]

14. He's definitely a bloviator. But he's probably right.

“We will win when we put somebody on that ballot that excites the base — women, people of color, young people,” he added. “When they wake up that morning and they feel the way that many of us, many of you watching, felt the morning that you were going to — in 2008, and you were going to get to go and vote for Barack Obama.”

“That feeling has got to happen in the 18-to-35-year-old demographic,” he said. “It has to happen with people of color and with women. We already feel that way. They already feel that way. It’s just: Will they come out and vote for a centrist, moderate candidate. I don’t think that is going to happen. They’re going to come out and vote for the fighter, for the person that shares their values.”

[mahina]

15. Agreed.

[treestar]

22. That's not new; we've heard that over and over and over

It does no good to pit one group against another; tell some of us we are not as valuable as others. People who don't vote and let Dotard win because they aren't excited are STUPID people. And if so, why doesn't he help "inspire" their lazy asses then? He should be talking up the centrist and the moderate as he knows they will be the candidate, maybe he could help inspire these lazy self-centered people rather than just let the Dotard win. He should be talking up Biden as much as anyone else then, or he's part of the problem.

Notice they only use the 19 year olds will stay home vote to threaten us not to vote for who we want but who THEY want. Once the "centrist" is nominated, where is he to inspire them to vote for THEM?

[progressoid]

43. "It does no good to pit one group against another"

Good luck with that while calling one group stupid and lazy.

[treestar]

89. Well they started it

And so the reaction is natural. WE aren’t the ones who threaten not to vote. WE don’t do the damage in a fit.

[progressoid]

117. In 2015, nonvoters were more likely to be "younger, less educated, less affluent, and nonwhite."

The question is, will our centrist candidates appeal to them?

Link to tweet

[treestar]

150. I'm tired of the concept that the rest of us have to give

up the candidate WE want to placate them. And if we think their candidate will lose the general, it is even more unreasonable to ask. Let's get out the vote of the base, rather than throw away the election on a candidate the majority did not choose in the hope that another will possibly get these people to vote.

I voted in every election, including midterms, from the time I was old enough to vote. There are people in that age group who are mature enough to take on the responsibility of self-government without this kind of threat to the good of the whole.

[progressoid]

155. Unlike most Democrats, I too have voted in every election (except one when I was ill.)

But every election sees millions of people stay home on election day for a lot of different reasons.

Why was voter turnout so high in 2018? Because those people were motivated to vote. Were they stupid and lazy before 2018? Maybe, but calling them that isn't going to win them over to vote again.

Similarly, we have more candidates now than in the recent past. Were they too lazy to run before? Perhaps they were motivated by Trump and a runaway GOP.

[treestar]

169. Anyone who won't vote now

to help get rid of Trump - well, that is just not reasonable and there is no excuse. Especially excuses about not being inspired enough.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT?! DAMN STRAIGHT HE'S RIGHT ABOUT THAT!!!

THIS IS PRECISELY WHY WE NEED TO VOTE BERNIE!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[NurseJackie]

160. Total horse shit...

We will win when we put somebody on that ballot that excites the base

Total horse shit. That's not "the base" that's being described.

The "base" of the Democratic party are the ones who are LOYAL to the party. The "base" are the ones who ALWAYS VOTE in every election. The "base" of the Democratic party are the ones who only vote for Democrats. The "base" are the ones who volunteer, donate, canvass, stuff-envelopes, man phone banks, hand out flyers at polling places.

The "base" doesn't need to be convinced to do anything. It's very insulting for anyone to 1) act like the base aren't loyal... and 2) try to pretend that the unreliable and malcontent voters are the "base" (they're not!)

The real "base" will vote for the party's nominee even if they aren't thrilled that their first choice didn't make it. The real "base" doesn't need to be personally excited or "in-love" with the nominee. The "base" will vote for the Democrat because it's good for the country, not because their own personal vanities have been validated and not because their egos have been stroked.

All I'm saying is the far-left malcontents, and the unreliable youth-vote are NOT the base.

[progressoid]

165. Are people of color part of our base?

Because if they had come out to vote, the election would have been a win for us.

A new study co-authored by political science professors and a policy analyst from the think tank Demos finds that Donald Trump’s electoral college victory in November depended heavily on an increase in white voter turnout and an even bigger decrease in turnout among African-American voters—particularly in the key swing states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

Comparing data from the voter file vendor Catalist and the U.S. Census Bureau, the researchers concluded: “Without those shifts in turnout from various racial and ethnic groups, these pivotal states might have gone not to Trump but to Clinton — giving Clinton an electoral college victory.”

The study, published Monday in the Washington Post‘s Monkey Cage blog, found that between 2012 and 2016, white voter turnout jumped 2.4 percent nationally, while black voter turnout fell 4.7 percent.

The split was even more dramatic in the midwestern states that tipped the scales for Trump. In Ohio, black voter turnout dropped 7.5 percent; in Wisconsin, it declined 12.3 percent; and in Michigan, it was down 12.4 percent.

[George II]

171. Is that a serious question?

[progressoid]

225. via dictionary.com

rhetorical question

noun

a question asked solely to produce an effect or to make an assertion and not to elicit a reply, as “What is so rare as a day in June?”

[mcar]

172. And what did voter suppression have to do with these numbers?

The fact of voter suppression is never mentioned in these discussions.

Also, your question is offensive. To whom are you referring when you say "our base?"

People of color, most particularly women of color, are the base of the Democratic party. Perhaps they should be asking if white people are part of "our base."

[progressoid]

181. POC voter turnout increased in 2018. Voter suppression ended in 2016?

Historic highs in 2018 voter turnout extended across racial and ethnic groups.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/05/01/historic-highs-in-2018-voter-turnout-extended-across-racial-and-ethnic-groups/

?resize=640,672

[betsuni]

176. "A more important explanation for the drop in African American turnout had to do with Obama and

Clinton themselves. When Obama ran in 2008 and 2012, black turnout was over 5 percentage points higher than it had been in any election on record. Obama's two campaigns confirmed research showing that African Americans' in-group identify -- their identification with blacks as a group -- impacts how they think and act in politics. Indeed, Barack Obama's extraordinary black support was concentrated among African Americans who expressed the most solidarity with other blacks.

"It is arguably unrealistic to expect similarly high levels of black turnout for a white Democratic candidate 2016. That does not mean that Clinton was unpopular among African Americans. They were crucial to her victory in the Democratic primary, and throughout 2016, an average of 73% rated her favorably in both Gallup and YouGov polls ... . "

From "Identity Crisis"

[Gothmog]

178. Putin and Russian efforts to depress African American voters worked

Last edited Sun Dec 29, 2019, 01:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

[progressoid]

183. Didn't work in the mid-terms though.

Voter turnout increased even with their interference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2018_United_States_elections

[Gothmog]

186. You do know that US Cyber Command blocked the Russians during the midterms?

Link to tweet

[progressoid]

187. And Democratic voters were extremely fucking motivated to vote.

Not so much in 2015.

[Gothmog]

212. Democrats had 9 million more votes in 2018 compared to the GOP in House races

In Texas, we flipped two congressional seats (Lizzie Fletcher and Colin Allred) and picked up 12 state house seats.

[Cha]

184. Dems should know this too.. and not be

trying to rewrite history. Thank you, Goth!

[betsuni]

179. "States with harsh new voting laws, such as Wisconsin, saw turnout dip 1.7 points

compared with a 1.2 point increase in states where the law didn't change. And the drop was particularly acute among black voters. Turnout was down 5 points in heavily African American counties in states with strict new ID laws, but down just 2.2 points in similar counties in states without new laws. In Wisconsin, where I lost by just 22,748 votes, a study from Priorities USA estimated that the new voter ID law helped reduce turnout by 200,000 votes, primarily from low income and minority areas. We know for sure that the turnout in the city of Milwaukee fell by 13 percent. By contrast, in neighboring Minnesota, which has similar demographics but did not impose arduous new restrictions on voting, turnout in heavily African American countries declined much less and was relatively flat. In Illinois, where the state put in place new measures to make it easier to vote, not harder, turnout was up more than 5 percent overall. ... Before the election, one Republican state representative in Wisconsin predicted the new law would help Trump pull off an upset in the state. Turns out he was right."

From "What Happened"

[progressoid]

185. FactChecking Clinton's Voter Suppression Claims

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/factchecking-clintons-voter-suppression-claims/

...But, as the excerpt above shows, the report did not give a reason why about 80,000 fewer black voters cast ballots in Wisconsin in 2016 compared with 2012. “It is difficult, however, to assess how much of this drop is due to the states’ new laws versus lack of enthusiasm for the candidates,” the report said.

...

In its conclusion, the report said: “Depressed turnout rates — and quite possibly voter suppression — across several Democratic-leaning groups contributed enormously to Clinton’s defeat.” However, it also said: “Those who wish to assign blame can — and do — debate whether the brunt should be placed on Obama voters who swung to Trump, Romney voters who didn’t swing to Clinton, or those who voted for neither major-party candidate. But a clear-eyed assessment must acknowledge that no one of these alone can be deemed the reason for the election’s outcome.”

Lastly, Clinton’s office cited a partisan analysis published by a Democratic-aligned super PAC, Priorities USA, that said Wisconsin’s voter ID law prevented as many as 200,000 voters from voting.

“While states with no change to voter identification laws witnessed an average increased turnout of +1.3% from 2012 to 2016, Wisconsin’s turnout (where voter ID laws changed to strict) dropped by -3.3%,” the Priorities USA report said. “If turnout had instead increased by the national-no-change average, we estimate that over 200,000 more voters would have voted in Wisconsin in 2016. For context, Clinton lost to Trump in Wisconsin by only 20,000 votes.”

But the Priorities USA report implies a causation that it cannot prove without conducting the research...

[betsuni]

188. Nobody is saying voter suppression is the sole reason for turnout decrease.

Or that it can be proved it was. 2016 was the first election since new voter laws. 2018 was not, these laws are not new and unfamiliar. We are more prepared, and know about Russian interference.

[Gothmog]

215. GOP voter suppression techniques work

I volunteer on voter protection efforts. In 2014, I worked with the state party and the DNC to try to deal with the Texas voter id law, We trained volunteers to help people get ids but as you will see these efforts did not have a great effect. In 2014 a federal district judge found that the Texas voter id law discriminated against minorities. Here is a chart that shows the effect of the Texas voter id law on Democratic turnout

Greg Abbott got more votes in 2014 compared to Rick Perry while Wendy Davis got far fewer votes even though she spent more.

In 2016 the 5th Circuit affirmed this ruling and the Texas voter id law was largely gutted so that any registered voter can vote if they lack one of the approved ids and sign a Reasonable Impediment Declaration and provide one of the alternative ids which includes utility bills or bank statements. For college students, out of state drivers license are an approved id

After the gutting of the voter id law, turnout in Texas increased. We picked up two congressional seats in 2018 (Lizzie Fletcher and Colin Allred) and 12 state house seats. We need 9 more state house seats to take control of the Texas house. and the DCCC is targeting 6 congressional districts in Texas

GOP voter suppression works

[Gothmog]

214. Rigged: How Voter Suppression Threw Wisconsin to Trump

I volunteer a great deal of time on voter protection efforts. I have been running war rooms or working on voter protection teams since 2004 when I went to Florida for the Kerry/Edwards voter protection team. It is clear that GOP voter suppression gave trump the victory in Wisconsin

Link to tweet

A post-election study by Priorities USA, a Democratic super-PAC that supported Clinton, found that in 2016, turnout decreased by 1.7 percent in the three states that adopted stricter voter ID laws but increased by 1.3 percent in states where ID laws did not change. Wisconsin’s turnout dropped 3.3 percent. If Wisconsin had seen the same turnout increase as states whose laws stayed the same, “we estimate that over 200,000 more voters would have voted in Wisconsin in 2016,” the study said. These “lost voters”—those who voted in 2012 and 2014 but not 2016—”skewed more African American and more Democrat” than the overall voting population. Some academics criticized the study’s methodology, but its conclusions were consistent with a report from the Government Accountability Office, which found that strict voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee had decreased turnout by roughly 2 to 3 percent, with the largest drops among black, young, and new voters.

According to a comprehensive study by MIT political scientist Charles Stewart, an estimated 16 million people—12 percent of all voters—encountered at least one problem voting in 2016. There were more than 1 million lost votes, Stewart estimates, because people ran into things like ID laws, long lines at the polls, and difficulty registering. Trump won the election by a total of 78,000 votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

In Wisconsin, the intent of those who pushed for the ID law was clear. On the night of Wisconsin’s 2016 primary, GOP Rep. Glenn Grothman, a backer of the law when he was in the state Senate, predicted that a Republican would carry the state in November, even though Wisconsin had gone for Barack Obama by 7 points in 2012. “I think Hillary Clinton is about the weakest candidate the Democrats have ever put up,” he told a local TV news reporter, “and now we have photo ID, and I think photo ID is going to make a little bit of a difference as well.”

The strategy worked. While we’ll never know precisely how many people were prevented from voting, it’s safe to say that thousands of Wisconsinites like Anthony were denied one of their most fundamental rights. And with Republicans now in control of both the executive and legislative branches in the federal government and a majority of states, that problem will likely get worse.

[treestar]

255. This

Hillary was right again.

[NurseJackie]

182. Yes.

[NYMinute]

206. I used to think that there were no stupid questions but only stupid answers

I have been proven wrong!!

[betsuni]

207. Ha!

[progressoid]

226. I'm surprised how many intelligent people can't recognize a rhetorical question.

[NYMinute]

235. We understand it fine. We just categorize it the way it should be categorized.

See above.

[treestar]

254. Delaware is the only one with an increase from both

But as to the only ones that matter

WI - fewer whites too
PA - bad - Dotard drew out the racists in Pennsyltucky
OH - fewer whites too
MI - same
FL - Like PA, got whites out

We have to get black people registered and to the polls and be ready to defend any BS. Dotard definitely brings out the white voters. And Bernie quit attacking the candidates that AA support, like now.

[True Blue American]

198. Thank you, Nurse Jackie!

The Democratic base wants maturity, stability, experience.

We have had enough shouting, ranting, raving, Unfulfilled promises of something for nothing to last a lifetime.

We want our Country rebuilt, deficit under control, fixing what needs fixing. We need good paying jobs, a Government that works for us, a fair taxe, health care.

I have had all the drama and shouting I can stand.

[proud patriot]

16. See to me there is a difference

Moore Voted for Hillary in the General once Bernie was no longer in the race and asked his supporters
to support hillary ...

Moore is not the problem IMO

It's those on either side who refuse to vote for the strongest opponent in the General (which Moore will do)

reason I hear from moderates "I'll never vote for ________ they're to far left" ..

Reason I hear from the Left (my dad) "I'll never vote for ________ they're too owned by $$"

both are complete Bullshit to me.

[Dem4Life1102]

19. He voted for Nader

and he is playing a sneaky game here.

[ChubbyStar]

21. Sneaky game?

That is hilarious!

[Dem4Life1102]

24. Yes he is

[proud patriot]

23. I voted for Nader In 92

You wanna re hash that? That was my last green party vote in a presidential election...

I learned that to empower independent parties
that instant runoff voting is the only way to go.

presidential elections are not the time to protest vote for a third party .

I am not the problem

the problem are those who refuse to Compromise in order to
Defeat #IMPOTUS in the general ..

The problem are those who burn so many bridges they cannot come together to Defeat #IMPOTUS

I sure wish more would choose to WIN together because our differences make us stronger
rather than choose to Win Alone without all the diversity of the liberal rainbow Strength ..

[Dem4Life1102]

25. Thanks for helping Bush!

[proud patriot]

39. whoops I meant 96 .. bush wasn't running dole was

I voted for Clinton in the general for his first term in 92 .. then Nader in the next election.

I guess you could say I helped Dole.. LOL I was 22 and learning .

[Dem4Life1102]

49. Ok

Didn’t know Nader ran in 96. He didn’t have any impact that year.

[mountain grammy]

27. Nader wasn't running in 2016

This is about 2016, and aside from that he is free to vote for who ever, but he’s never been sneaky.

[Dem4Life1102]

28. He was in 2000

and Moore is being very sneaky

[mountain grammy]

37. How exactly is Moore sneaky?

[ChubbyStar]

38. Maybe the poster has some insight on sneaky

The sneaky post baffled me.

[mountain grammy]

41. I know, right?

Love him or hate him, Moore has always been out there..

[proud patriot]

44. me too

off somehow .. Moore is anything but sneaky ..

[Dem4Life1102]

47. He is trying to scare Democratic voters

into voting for the candidate that he supports.

[ChubbyStar]

51. Scare Democratic?

Odd turn of phrase. This thread is CLASSIC!

[mountain grammy]

54. Indeed

[Dem4Life1102]

59. Democratic voters

[RandiFan1290]

142. You're not very good at this

[Dem4Life1102]

149. Projection

[Thekaspervote]

192. Yes... exactly!

[Cha]

191. The Shite moore says..

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump."

https://documentarynews.com/in-fahrenheit-11-9-michael-moore-compares-trump-to-hitler-and-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

111. You got that right MG!! You can disagree with someone and still have respect for them.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

242. Really?

When did this change of heart occur?

[Cha]

238. Sez you.. moore is a fucking sneaky idiot says me.

Michael Moore: All Obama Will Be Remembered For Is Being The "First Black President"

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/dorsey/michael-moore-all-obama-will-be-remembered-for-is-being-the

"I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump."

https://documentarynews.com/in-fahrenheit-11-9-michael-moore-compares-trump-to-hitler-and-hes-not-so-crazy-about-obama-either/

[pnwmom]

40. He's not helping when his definition of a "centrist" is Hillary Clinton.n/t

[proud patriot]

50. is that an insult ?

or a complement ? I guess it's all about perspective.


I'm kinda proud to be in the liberal middle. I like things about all of our candidates save 1 (rep HI) ..

I'll be proud to vote for a centrist or a more left leaning Democratic candidate .

I'm not the problem .. I want Democratic Americans to choose who they think
is the strongest against trump .. I will actively work for whomever Americans
choose .

So Will Moore ...

[pnwmom]

72. From his perspective and that of his fans, it's an insult.

It's also not true, in the case of Hillary Clinton. Her record as a Senator from NY, and her policy positions in 2016, put her firmly in the progressive camp.

[proud patriot]

102. I agree w/ u about Hillary

yet I'm a fan of Moore's also ..

sooo I do not fit in that box

[Demsrule86]

113. Hillary was a liberal since her college days and tried to give us universal healthcare in the 90's.

She was the best most qualified candidate we ever nominated...and It makes me so mad I could spit when I hear some put her down...shame on them.

[proud patriot]

163. I agree

[treestar]

94. Moderates never say that

And far right types never do.

[proud patriot]

104. Yes they do

I've seen avid Biden supporters say the same stuff as Bernie supporters about not voting
for the nominee if it's one or the other ..

It's heartbreaking when we just need to Get Trump and republicans out office .

I'm proud that I'll vote for the nominee even if I don't agree with the person 100%

While I really hope it's Warren , I'm not ANTI any of them .. To me Moore is speaking more about
the Messaging than certain people .. and we do need to speak to old school Democratic populism on this
Moore is correct ..

and until Moore says "Don't vote for (whomever the nominee is) He's an ally ...

I see nothing wrong with Honing our message .

[treestar]

151. Very rare if they do

"centrists" are by nature not going to fail to vote because they are happy with the centrists, not demanding of a more "exciting" candidate. I have personally never seen that. It's not allowed on DU but often implied, like we'd better go with someone exciting or we're going to lose, that we have to have the youth vote and they won't vote if we don't pick the candidate they want rather than the one most of us want, etc.

[mountain grammy]

216. Exactly!

[yaesu]

20. HRC a centrist? She was pushing for universal healthcare in 1990 and everyone boohooed her. nt

[progressoid]

45. That was the 90's.

Was she pushing universal healthcare in 2015?

[betsuni]

122. She said, as president: "I would have gone after the drug companies to bring down prices and fought

for a public option to get us even closer to affordable, truly universal health care." ACA with public option and lower Medicare to 55. Nobody thought the ACA was fine as is.

"For a hundred years, Democrats campaigned on giving all American access to affordable, quality care. Bill and I tried to get it done in the 1990s, and we succeeded in crating CHIP, which provides coverage to millions of kids. It wasn't until Obama was swept into office with a supermajority in the Senate that we could finally pass the Affordable Care Act. Even then, the ACA was a hodgepodge of imperfect compromises. But that historic achievement was possible only because Democrats had kept universal health care as our North War for decades."

[George II]

147. Yes. Why would you think she wasn't? You may want to pull up some of her speeches....

....and the debates against trump.

AND IT WAS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S PLATFORM!

[mountain grammy]

60. She hardly pushed.

They came up with a plan and completely abandoned it at the first sign of controversy.

[OldRed2450]

100. This is not at all true.

[betsuni]

108. She said it failed to get enough votes because of lack of compromise.

"There are principles and values we should never compromise, but to be an effective leader in a democracy you need flexible strategies and tactics especially under difficult political conditions. I learned that the hard way during our battle for health care reform in the early nineties. Reluctance to compromise can bring about defeat. ... Marian and I both threw ourselves into the fight to create the Children's Health Insurance Program, which emerged out of the ashes of the Clinton administration's failure to pass universal health care reform in 1993-1994. I learned a lot of lessons about what it takes to get things done in Congress, including how to work across the aisle and lean more effectively on outside allies like Marian. Those lessons paid off when CHIP became a bipartisan success story that continues to provide hatch care to millions of kids every year."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

112. THIS!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[George II]

167. That!

[Demsrule86]

119. That is not true and out of the ashes...they managed to get CHIP which has saved millions of kids.

Bill was a great president...and Hillary was the most talented best candidate ever to run.

[mountain grammy]

121. Nah, sorry. A great president?

Please...too many wasted opportunities.

[Demsrule86]

125. Yes a great president...tired of the Clinton bashing...He was a great president and she would have

bee a wonderful president too. And Biden will be awesome...Michael Moore can pound sand. I detest him. He hates Democrats and the party.

[mountain grammy]

213. Let's be clear. I'm not bashing Clinton

I voted for him twice. I thought the health care plan they came up with was pretty good. Did you read it? I did, and was furious with the rhetoric surrounding it, and with the President and First Lady for not defending it..almost as if they didn’t care enough to pass it. Then we lost the House in 94.. When the republicans rolled out Ronnie Reagan in the 60’s to tell us Medicare would be literally the end of freedom, LBJ and Democrats fought back and got it done. When we fight, we win..

We are allowed to disagree.. it’s not bashing.

[Demsrule86]

221. It was a different time. The country had moved right after Reagan...Clinton never had a majority...

and both Clinton's defended their health care plan. Johnson would not have been elected in 92...and it took Perot in 92 and Buchanan in 96 for Clinton to win...he never had a majority...when we have presidents like Reagan and now Trump...the country takes a sharp turn right...and now we have the courts in the hands of the right for a generation...if we lose the ACA do you think this sort will find M4A constitutional? We could very well lose the ACA thanks to the combined efforts of the right and the left which is a damned disgrace...the ACA should have been supported until and unless we were in a position to actually pass M4A which are not now and may never be.

We sacrificed our house majority to bring health care to millions of people ...made people understand what it is to have health care...but now we must tear it down and start anew according to the 'woke' left but the choice is not between M4A and the ACA ( it never was) but between the ACA and nothing. Obama fought for what we could reasonably get and the left/Green betrayed him in 10 and 14...and in the end what will we have? I fear a big fat nothing...we could lose health care for a generation. And if Trump wins again, the progressive movement is finished for God knows how long.

I seriously don't want to hear about Roosevelt (who was not liberal really but rose to the occasion) or Johnson ...they are long gone. And we live in different more desperate times. We need 21st Century solutions...M4A is of the past and we could have built on the ACA to produce a 21st century solution...but now I fear we may have nothing in the end. I view it as the left/ Green once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[betsuni]

127. Republicans.

"In the end, as their representatives in Washington should have known all along, even those voters who revered Ronald Reagan, and cheered on the contract-signing candidates in principle, were not ready, when they leaned that freed markets would leave them with sole responsibility for their own fates, to give up their Social Security and Medicare, their public schools, and their government -backed air, water, and earth protections. As important, Bill Clinton's legendary ability to 'triangulate' -- taking on as his own some of the goals they proposed while drawing the line against such extra measures as a balanced budget amendment -- took the steam out of the House GOP's sails. To be repeatedly outwitted by Clinton, a president the radical right had spent much effort and untold treasure tying to undermine, made the sting of defeat all the more sharp."

Nancy MacLean, "Democracy in Chains"

[Demsrule86]

222. Thanks for that...very interesting and true.

[Thekaspervote]

193. Yes he was and Hillary is responsible for some great accomplishments including CHIP

[ehrnst]

241. Got any sources to back up that attack?

[Hortensis]

30. It's his nature to sabotage what he claims to support.

And it has a constituency who soak his poison up.

[DanieRains]

32. Michael Moore Rocks And Told Us Trump Was Gonna Win - We Ignored His Warning

Without Comey doing his crap Hillary would have won in a landslide.

Lisa Page tried to justify it. She failed.

FBI, indict or stay quiet.

Assholes.

Still a lot of haters would have knocked down doors to vote for the orange anus, but Hillary would have won.

Then there was Russia with their Wikileaks attacks on Trump's bad news days.

And the media obsessed with eMails, while a lifelong criminal Trump got no coverage of his multiple crimes.

Seemed rigged to me.

[still_one]

36. He also said mccain and r9mney were going to win, and a vote for Gore was a vote for

bush

[squirecam]

56. This

A vote for gore is a vote for bush crap is why he gets 0 consideration from me. He can cry now about the earth....which would be far better off had Gore won. He’s never apologized, and is still doing this stuff.

He and his Nader/Stein brigade are responsible for Bush and Trump.

[still_one]

77. Yup

[Cha]

55. No MM does NOT "rock".. in fact just the OPPOSITE

of that.. he's a RF.

He predicted McCain & Romney winning, too.. and said "..all President Obama was good for was that he was the first Black President" among other shite.. so excuse me if I say FO, MM.

[Cha]

46. Hillary isn't "Centrist" read the fucking Platform, MM.. and look

at the fucking polls.

[Dem4Life1102]

64. Clinton is only a centrist to the purity left.

[Cha]

66. Exactly.. they must think if they say

it enough times it will appear.. No.

Facts are Facts.. and MM isn't going to distort them.. for people who care about things like that.

[Hortensis]

123. And only then as a clueless insult. To understand the

ideological spectrum from conservative to liberal, from milds and moderates to hard-cores on both sides, and certainly what "centrist" means, would throw a spotlight way over to the far/radical left.

Lol, that it IS the farther/radical left, not "the people." Then there's the little issue of the social conservatism dominating all populist groups, left and right: also not "the people," except for those who consider that only what Sanders' and Trump's people want matters.

[Thekaspervote]

194. +1000

[Cha]

197. Moore's a

gaslighter

[Cuthbert Allgood]

256. You mean the platform that moved to the left to bring in Sanders' supporters?

She's a centrist. Sorry if that is problematic for you.

[Me.]

53. What Moore Really Needs To Do

Is pay his bills and stop being mean to his staff

[ChubbyStar]

76. You were an employee?

[Me.]

126. No

But have read the articles which quote his employees

[betsuni]

58. "I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock

to social progress than Trump."

This guy.

[John Fante]

85. Fuck that guy.

[NurseJackie]

87. He's worse than Cenk Uygur (except for the bestiality stuff). He truly hates Democrats and...

He's worse than Cenk Uygur (except for the bestiality stuff). He truly hates Democrats and the Democratic party. He does nothing but smear, denigrate and tear-down the party, its leaders and its candidates... and he LIES to do it.

So much negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

[betsuni]

98. The thing I don't get is how they tell their audiences that both parties are the same

(but Democrats get the hatred based on lies) and then turn around at the last minute and say they're voting for the Democratic nominee and that everyone should, and are surprised that their audiences won't do so. They spent years training them to hate Democrats! I can't tell if they honestly believe all the lies they tell or not.

I remember the good old days when both Cenk and Michael hated Republicans. Something happened during the Obama administration that made Democrats the enemy.

[treestar]

99. And that is exactly why the millenials

Will never see universal healthcare or public college in their lifetime. They let the asshole win because Hillary wasn’t good enough. The asshole has stacked the courts for their lifetime and beyond.

[Cha]

134. Yeah, he's full of shite. just jabbers to be jabbering..

58. "I've come to the conclusion that the old guard of the Democratic Party is a greater roadblock to social progress than Trump."

I remember that quote.. thanks for the reminder, betsuni!

[betsuni]

135. And still thinks the DNC has superpowers to rig elections.

[Cha]

136. He gaslights.. wants people to

believe him and spread it out into the Universe.

[Me.]

161. K

[booley]

61. Moore was right about Trump winning

And there's a good chance he is right about this.

I don't see how killing the messenger and being in denial helps beat trump.

[Dem4Life1102]

62. Was he right about McCain and Romney winning?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

[NurseJackie]

96. But the broken clock doesn't CROW and BOAST and BELLOW about being right two times...

But the broken clock doesn't CROW and BOAST and BELLOW about being right two times out of 1440. At least the broken clock is quiet and humble.

[90-percent]

65. I've liked Michael since Roger and Me

and I still like him now.

I would like those here to share a list of public figures, pols and talking heads that have been 100% right about everything they've ever said.

You may not agree with everything, but Dems ignore Mike at their peril.

I recall one of his books from after 2000 where he said he advised ralph to quit the race and ask his supporters to vote for Gore instead. I don't think Ralph took the advice.

-90% Jimmy

[NurseJackie]

74. Haaaaaa!

he advised ralph to quit the race and ask his supporters to vote for Gore instead.

[progressoid]

153. Bill Maher & Moore literally got on their knees on TV and begged Nader not to run.

Bill Maher and Michael Moore beg Ralph Nader not to run in 2004

[NurseJackie]

157. Funny gag. Cute stunt.

Michael Moore has made his feelings clear about Democrats and the Democratic party. This yuk-yuk gag means nothing... it was great for laughs, but it's exceedingly clear how he feels. He'll spend an entire election cycle trash-talking and smearing the Democratic party... calling us corrupt and "no different than the GOP". Then on election day, he'll say "vote for the Democrat" (as if that redeems him from all his shit-talk... it doesn't). So for one day he's "for" Democrats... after having convinced hundreds of thousands of voters to NOT support Democrats.

Michael Moore is a ratfucker. He's worse than Susan Sarandon (and she's no prize either.)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

114. Yup, Roger and Me was an awesome movie... it really awakened a lot of people at the time.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[JustAnotherGen]

67. He's allowed to have his opinions

And I'm allowed to vociferously disagree with him.

What's the difference between Biden, Sanders, Bloomberg and him (all four older white men)?

They have the GUTS to try. They've served in office.

If he thinks he knows so much - he's a rich guy - just run. If he is so arrogant as to believe that HE and HE alone 'knows' the woman on the street and how she's going to vote . . .

Then it should be easy for him to win - right?

[Demsrule86]

116. When he comes on any media ...radio, TV...whatever, I immediately turn it off...I never want to hear

anything he has to say...he hurt Hillary's chances...voted for Nader and most likely Stein...fuck him.

[JustAnotherGen]

139. I just saw a clip on MSNBC

Where he says he's from there and the Trump voters have not lost any support for 45.

And he said it like it was something *new*.

*smdh*

We don't need them to win. 71 Million people did NOT vote for Trump.r

We don't even need the Stein voters to win.

We need the Johnson/Weld voters.

That's how we won among active voters in 2016.

[Demsrule86]

224. We have only to look at midterms...did the AOC wing win the house for us? Nope...it was

those moderates in states that Trump won...and they are the key to victory in the Mid West in 20 and if we win there we win the general...we could win Ohio with Biden.

[Thekaspervote]

195. Yup! His spot really haven't changed

[Demsrule86]

223. He is a POS and in reality he supports his own sorry ass...of course he helped Trump win with his

bashing of Hillary...he can fuck off as far as I am concerned.

[Lexblues]

88. Has Michael Moore ever predicted a Democratic victory...EVER??

He's been poo-pooing the Democratic Party since 2000. According to him, Obama was going to lose twice. And the Dems weren't going to win in 2018 either. I have no use for this man.

[totodeinhere]

105. I disagree. He is free to offer his opinion just like anyone else is.

Remember that he also predicted a Trump victory last time. Of course Trump didn't really win but he is in the White House anyway so maybe Moore has a point.

[Dem4Life1102]

107. He also predicted McCain and Romney would win

And if he just wanted to honestly offer his opinion he could of just stated why he supports Sanders instead of playing a disingenuous game to try to scare democrats.

[totodeinhere]

128. if Trump has a chance of winning the 2020 election then we should be scared. n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

115. Yes, he has quite a few points.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[sheshe2]

243. Which points would those be? nt

[BannonsLiver]

252. The ones where he praises Bernie unconditionally

Which is why Sanders devotees here defend him. If he were for Yang or Pete, Moore would be an establishment figure in their eyes and thus worthy of attack.

[sheshe2]

253. Thanks for clearing that up, Bannon.

[roody]

106. I am sure that he will not shut up.

[mountain grammy]

120. I for one hope he never does.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

132. Hard truths are hard to swallow

[mountain grammy]

218. Simple disagreements are hard to swallow

[Hassin Bin Sober]

220. Wait! Are we agreeing or disagreeing?

[mountain grammy]

245. We're definitely agreeing

[MFM008]

129. his relevance ended for me

after I left the theater seeing Fahrenheit 911............

[choie]

131. So let me get this straight...

It’s ok for some to say that Trump will win if we have a “far-left” candidate, but Michael Moore swaying that the same will happen if we have a center candidate, is basically treason... I see.

[Dem4Life1102]

138. Never said that

So please don’t dishonestly put words in my mouth

[Hassin Bin Sober]

156. Yep. That's about the size of it.

[StarfishSaver]

133. A filmmaker is treated as a soothsayer, while Hillary Clinton is told to shut up.

Interesting.

[Cha]

190. A "filmmaker" who

bashes Dems. Without that I doubt the m$m would book 'im.

[RandiFan1290]

140. No he should not "shut up"

I'm glad he is speaking his mind.

I'm elated that it bothers YOU

Welcome back to DU


He was right about trump beating Hillary too.

[Dem4Life1102]

148. He also said McCain and Romney would beat Obama

But then a broken clock is right at least twice a day.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

180. What happened to the "Big Tent" Democratic Party?!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[RandiFan1290]

204. They only like the right side big enough to enter

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

205. Yes & its beginnin to look more like a "pup tent," certainly not big enough for the progressive left

favored by the working class in this country.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ismnotwasm]

145. Oh he can talk

Maybe he’ll say Bin Laden should be considered innocent until proven guilty again or something, just to stir things up. Or, bend the Truth as he does on occasion. Or as any (apparently) self respecting political commentator does, put self aggrandizement over content. And didn’t he pay Julian Assange bail? Ugh. UGH.

But hey, HE WAS RIGHT ABOUT HILLARY right? I’m supposed to admire Moore for being a liberal pied piper I take it, because he is a stalwart Bernie Sanders supporter? Is that it?

He can make movies, do interviews, start podcasts put himself in the middle of political situations all he wants. He doesn’t need to shut up.

But I don’t need to listen

[treestar]

152. Even if he's right once, that does not mean he is always right from now on

I love that logical fallacy.

I recall a half-hearted town hall type event he held to try to support Hillary - it was on the lines of "Hillary isn't so bad, right?"

[JonLP24]

201. He was trying to find common ground with people who strongly oppose us

By sharing he wasn't a big fan of the Clintons and using that 2000 vote the OP is referencing. You are less likely to win some one over being a partisan hack.

[Kahuna7]

154. He just refuses to acknowledge all the elements that went into

the russian active measures that caused Hillary's loss. It had nothing to do with Hillary being a centrist.

[lees1975]

166. It's a view

The Democrats need a candidate who can rally as broad a constituency as possible, up to and including independents and disaffected Republicans. Trump's Russian friends, and goodness only knows who else, are already at work to sabotage this election so that's going to be a fight to overcome as well. It needs to be someone who's not so completely committed to a political perspective that they squeeze out support at either end of the spectrum.

Beat Trump into the ground and elect a Congressional majority. Whoever can get that done is who the Democrats need. Who is it?

[JonLP24]

200. If you bring up Nader supporter

Keep in mind conservative Democrat Krysten Sinema worked for Nader's campaign in 2000 but Michael Moore has always remained progressive.

[Demsrule86]

239. She was an unknown...and had little impact but Moore had huge rallies that changed folks mind...

never forgive him Sarandon or the others who basically brought us Bush...I despise Moore and have for a long time...add what he did to Hillary and how he helped Trump-makes him a POS...he is a scumbag opportunist

[JonLP24]

240. I think it was Nader himself campaigning in swing states right before the election

As far as Susan Surandon I think she lives in California. I don't have a big problem with Green Party voters in California or in safe blue states.

[Demsrule86]

246. I do...such people influence other voters.

[dewsgirl]

203. The other day there was a post here, basically accusing those not

caring for him, doing so because he is not physically attractive.🙄 Absolutely ridiculous, even if he looked like David Jolly or Andrew McCabe, he still would be him. I don't think any of us follow politics for the hot guys.

[Dem4Life1102]

219. +1

[Demsrule86]

227. His physical appearance is not what makes him unattractive...it is the naked opportunism and the

Hatred of Democrats and the party...He has no remorse for what he did in 2000 and again in 16.

[dewsgirl]

229. I'm sorry, what did he do in 2000? I tried to Google didn't

really come up with anything.

[Demsrule86]

236. He supported and voted for Nader...

"Michael Moore, the filmmaker, lambasted the front-runners. ''A vote for Gore is a vote for Bush,'' he said. ''If they both believe in the same thing, wouldn't you want the original than the copy?" And in 16 he attacked Hillary relentlessly...

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/15/us/the-2000-campaign-the-green-party-in-nader-supporters-math-gore-equals-bush.html

[dewsgirl]

237. I remember the 2016 stuff, I was 22 in 2000 and not paying

a whole lot of attention. Thank you, I had no idea he said that, screw him.

[Demsrule86]

247. I wasn't paying attention much either...only after the fact when we elected one of the worst

presidents in my lifetime ...did I realize what had happened...sure I voted but I could have done more.

[dewsgirl]

248. Me too, until the Access Hollywood tapes, I was to busy.

I certainly wish I would have done more, as well.

[Demsrule86]

249. I am all in this time...

[dewsgirl]

250. Me too, 100 percent.

[Cha]

257. KICK!