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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

OldRed2450

(710 posts)
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 01:45 PM Dec 2019

Bernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap.

I'm trying to figure out why a whole group of people does not believe that women make less than men. I am reading these comments and in shock! Does anyone know where they get their information or why they believe this? It's not from Bernie.




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap. (Original Post) OldRed2450 Dec 2019 OP
Depending on what kind of jobs you've had, I can see some people thinking that. On my brewens Dec 2019 #1
i don't see how you conclude that, from the video garybeck Dec 2019 #2
It's from the twitter responses; that's why the OP said "it's not from Bernie" LongtimeAZDem Dec 2019 #4
Click through and read the comments... brooklynite Dec 2019 #5
Seriously????? you believe Twitter responses? garybeck Dec 2019 #40
Some Bernie supporters are not true Democrats Sloumeau Dec 2019 #3
This NYMinute Dec 2019 #6
Thank you! OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #13
You are very welcome. :) Sloumeau Dec 2019 #15
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2019 #29
Correct. TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #27
I'm not convinced they're all American at this point nini Dec 2019 #37
They should check his campaign payroll records over the years. George II Dec 2019 #7
Boom. MH1 Dec 2019 #30
Indeed. ehrnst Dec 2019 #33
OMG someone on Twitter posted something disagreeable redqueen Dec 2019 #8
THIS +1,000,000! Smearing Bernie is the only thing left some think will keep him from the nomination InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2019 #26
Great video! Tiggeroshii Dec 2019 #9
You're welcome OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #11
Never look at the comments. You might turn to stone. Lucky Luciano Dec 2019 #14
Whoa, there! PatrickforO Dec 2019 #10
I didn't say Bernie was responsible. I even said they do NOT get their info from Bernie. OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #12
Well, you did say that PatrickforO Dec 2019 #17
"Does anyone know where they get their information or why they believe this? It's not from Bernie." LongtimeAZDem Dec 2019 #22
A whole lot of "these young folks" are not "folks" wysimdnwyg Dec 2019 #20
"They're Russian bots" is the new "No True Scotsman" LongtimeAZDem Dec 2019 #23
First, I had to look up that reference wysimdnwyg Dec 2019 #25
But a lot of very real people share those "bot" posts. ehrnst Dec 2019 #34
Just because a few of them say nutty thing doesn't mean all believe that. Sea Glass Dec 2019 #16
Its all good because you can sea beyond ... marble falls Dec 2019 #31
That is nonsense! Of course we believe in the wage gap! Bernie speaks about it! tberry65 Dec 2019 #18
"I certainly apologize to any woman who felt she was not treated appropriately, and of course ehrnst Dec 2019 #35
Wait, you are saying that everyone who responds to a Bernie tweet is a "Bernie follower"? jberryhill Dec 2019 #19
Why contribute to the fake news? vsrazdem Dec 2019 #21
Do you understand what "anecdotal" means? Act_of_Reparation Dec 2019 #24
Sanders' following includes two main anti-Democrat factions: Hortensis Dec 2019 #28
"Identity politics" ehrnst Dec 2019 #32
The thing is, the most effective way to close the gender wage gap Recursion Dec 2019 #36
I've never personally seen a wage gap myself madville Dec 2019 #38
They should be a woman in the tech world. nini Dec 2019 #39
"a whole group of people?" progressoid Dec 2019 #41
 

brewens

(13,400 posts)
1. Depending on what kind of jobs you've had, I can see some people thinking that. On my
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 01:50 PM
Dec 2019

last job working for a blood center, pay rates were the same. But then at one time, in donor services, the people that actually work the blood drives, four out of five of us were women. Four out of five supervisors were men. That was bullshit, especially if you knew the guys. That's where the difference was there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

garybeck

(9,932 posts)
2. i don't see how you conclude that, from the video
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 01:59 PM
Dec 2019

bernie clearly supports equal pay.

your subject line is incorrect and misleading.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
4. It's from the twitter responses; that's why the OP said "it's not from Bernie"
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:02 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
5. Click through and read the comments...
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:03 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

garybeck

(9,932 posts)
40. Seriously????? you believe Twitter responses?
Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:04 PM
Dec 2019

Bernie Sanders knows there is a wage gap.
His supporters do as well.

Period.

Twitter is a cesspool. I thought everyone knew that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Sloumeau

(2,657 posts)
3. Some Bernie supporters are not true Democrats
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:00 PM
Dec 2019

In 2016, a number of voters who did not regularly vote Democratic were supporters of Bernie. When he did not win the nomination, they went and voted for the Republican, as they usually did.

The same thing happened in 2008. A number of Hillary fans were women who did not regularly vote Democratic but liked the idea of a woman being President. When Obama won the nomination, they voted as they normally did, Republican.

Not all of the people who say that they are Bernie supporters are Lefty Progressive Democrats. Since I believe that Democrats overwhelmingly believe in equal pay for equal work, I think the majority of people who would claim to be Bernie fans but not support equal pay are either Bernie supporters who are not Democrats or are trolls who do not actually support Bernie at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sloumeau

(2,657 posts)
15. You are very welcome. :)
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:37 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #13)

 

TexasTowelie

(111,313 posts)
27. Correct.
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 07:16 PM
Dec 2019

The point by his own supporters that Bernie attracts supporters that aren't Democrats. They can't own that statement in certain situations and disavow it in others.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

nini

(16,670 posts)
37. I'm not convinced they're all American at this point
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 05:11 AM
Dec 2019

Too many bots and disrupters liking to stir the pot online.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
7. They should check his campaign payroll records over the years.
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:11 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
8. OMG someone on Twitter posted something disagreeable
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:15 PM
Dec 2019

Stop the presses

I'm sure each and every candidate has supporters on Twitter who have opinions we disagree with.

Should we all go and find the worst ones to being here and use them to smear the candidate?

Would that be a good idea?

FFS

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
26. THIS +1,000,000! Smearing Bernie is the only thing left some think will keep him from the nomination
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 06:38 PM
Dec 2019

It's not gonna work. As if Bernie is responsible for everything a supporter of his might say... riiiight!! Imagine if the "Bernie Standard" was applied to Biden. It doesn't matter... the fear of Bernie, while understandable, will have no ill effect on his campaign... Bernie's poll numbers just keep growing with every new attack on him, so, AFAIC, keep it up!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
9. Great video!
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:18 PM
Dec 2019

Thanks for posting

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OldRed2450

(710 posts)
11. You're welcome
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:32 PM
Dec 2019

Yes, the people in the comments are not getting their ideas from Bernie but in comments.. why do so many people disagree with Bernie?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Lucky Luciano

(11,242 posts)
14. Never look at the comments. You might turn to stone.
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:37 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

PatrickforO

(14,516 posts)
10. Whoa, there!
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:25 PM
Dec 2019

You are being more than a bit disingenuous by looking at the replies to that tweet and assuming they are Bernie supporters. Read the comments to some of Trump's tweets sometime and you'll see in stark terms what I mean. Literally anybody can reply to a tweet.

As to the wage gap being 'debunked,' that simply isn't true.

All you have to do is look at the latest census data profiles. Specifically you'll reference the Data Profile 03: Economic Characteristics. This profile can be downloaded from data.census.gov for any given geography, from the nation, to states, to counties, metro areas, micropolitan areas, and census designated places - like neighborhoods.

The DP03 has a line that gives the average earnings for a female full time worker and a male full time worker. Depending on the geography the range might go from $0.60 on the dollar to over $0.80 on the dollar, but I've never seen parity.

Now, if you want to talk statistics, this does not necessarily mean that companies are not paying women the same money, though some aren't.

It can also have to do with occupations that individuals tend to self-select into. Occupational families such as teachers and counselors, for instance, tend to be dominated by women, and pay lower wages. Other industries, such as stock brokerages and engineering firms tend to be dominated by men, and pay higher wages.

One academic actually destroyed her career by having the temerity to suggest that since some women 'stop out' of the labor force to give birth and raise families, they will, when they return to the labor force, earn less because they've missed some years of progressive earnings. She was crucified for it, which I have mixed feelings about because we're in reality not in academia.

My take after many years as a practicing career counselor and economist is that we need some policy direction leading to higher wages for teachers, counselors, nurses and other occupations that are truly important, and perhaps cap wages for occupations that don't add as much social value - like CEOs.

So what is it? I suggest it is a combination of all three. There really IS a wage gap, and Bernie stood right there on the video saying that. He cannot be responsible for the trolls that reply to his twitter posts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OldRed2450

(710 posts)
12. I didn't say Bernie was responsible. I even said they do NOT get their info from Bernie.
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:35 PM
Dec 2019

I'm just sad about the disinformation these young folks are getting

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PatrickforO

(14,516 posts)
17. Well, you did say that
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:59 PM
Dec 2019

"Bernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap."

That was the title of your OP, and it is that assertion I attempted to overturn with my reply.

I mean, look at this group of people on DU. Most of us are well educated, and many work in professional fields. In fact, there are some real heavy hitters on here. You will notice that 30% of us are either Warren or Sanders supporters, and 44% are undecided. This leaves 26% who fall a bit more in the center.

That said, I often get 'face palm' moments when I read some of this stuff. For instance, I read a big diatribe on here a few months ago that said the American people weren't smart enough to understand that if we raise taxes to provide Medicare for All, their expenses would actually go down because they wouldn't have premiums, copays and coinsurance. And, you know, Warren is right.

If we could get rid of the big pharma and health insurance lobbies, who are spending millions to discredit Warren and Sanders, we'd all be better off, because I will tell you as an economist - we could (and should) find a way to provide national healthcare for all Americans. Bernie and Elizabeth are both saying Medicare for all because the Medicare system already is in place. We wouldn't have to reinvent it, just expand it year over year for maybe five or six years until it covered everyone.

There would not be a giant exodus of people from the healthcare field.

We would still have good quality healthcare.

All the doctors who exist now would STILL be doctors and still be in business, but they would be paid by a single source instead of having to spend massive amounts of money on insurance company paperwork, denials and re-submissions.

But that's us - PROFIT trumps people every single time. Every. Single. Time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
22. "Does anyone know where they get their information or why they believe this? It's not from Bernie."
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:30 PM
Dec 2019

No, they didn't

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wysimdnwyg

(2,229 posts)
20. A whole lot of "these young folks" are not "folks"
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:27 PM
Dec 2019

They're Russian troll bots.

Perhaps a change to the title of your thread is appropriate, as the current one does imply that you think many of Sanders's followers believe that particular myth.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
23. "They're Russian bots" is the new "No True Scotsman"
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:30 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wysimdnwyg

(2,229 posts)
25. First, I had to look up that reference
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 05:32 PM
Dec 2019

Second, are you really denying the existence of Russian bots? Because the frequency of social media companies announcing that they've shut down a bunch of them seems to defeat your claim.

That said, no, I have no proof that the accounts claiming to not believe the existence of a wage gap are necessarily bots, and I'm sure many of them are real people (although it's doubtful they're actually Sanders supporters), but it definitely makes sense that many of them are bots, as that's just the kind of claim you'd expect.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
34. But a lot of very real people share those "bot" posts.
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:19 PM
Dec 2019

And swallow them hook line and sinker to the point of making them go viral.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sea Glass

(52 posts)
16. Just because a few of them say nutty thing doesn't mean all believe that.
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 02:46 PM
Dec 2019

I like Bernie (and Warren as well) but I certainly know there's a wage gap.

I know a few really whacked out Biden supporters (including a global warmer denier, go figure) but I don't imagine all of his people are like that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marble falls

(56,359 posts)
31. Its all good because you can sea beyond ...
Wed Dec 18, 2019, 02:30 PM
Dec 2019

the occasional whacko supporting a good candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tberry65

(34 posts)
18. That is nonsense! Of course we believe in the wage gap! Bernie speaks about it!
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:11 PM
Dec 2019

pfft!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
35. "I certainly apologize to any woman who felt she was not treated appropriately, and of course
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:21 PM
Dec 2019

if I run we will do better the next time,” he said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/politics/sanders-sexism-apology.html

Felt.

Ms. Davis, the former state director, said that she was originally paid about $2,400 a month as a senior staff member and saw in the campaign’s records that a younger man who was originally supposed to report to her made $5,000 a month. She said that she brought the issue to the campaign’s chief operating officer, who adjusted her salary to achieve parity.

“I helped at least a dozen women request raises so that they would be paid on par with their male peers,” Ms. Davis said.

The senator’s campaign committee acknowledged that there were pay disparities but said salaries were based on experience or the nature of the job and “never determined based on any consideration of an individual’s gender or of any other personal characteristic.’’

During the campaign, the committee said, it conducted a review to try to standardize pay across the states and within headquarters.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
19. Wait, you are saying that everyone who responds to a Bernie tweet is a "Bernie follower"?
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:27 PM
Dec 2019

Does that apply to Trump tweets as well?

You believe that everyone who responds to a Bernie tweet is a "young person" and "Bernie follower", as you've characterized them in this thread?

And you honestly believe this?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,176 posts)
21. Why contribute to the fake news?
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:29 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
24. Do you understand what "anecdotal" means?
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 03:34 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
28. Sanders' following includes two main anti-Democrat factions:
Tue Dec 17, 2019, 07:18 PM
Dec 2019

His quasi-socialist dissidents (who are usually glad to denounce economic inequality but tend to follow the lead of the others) and his more aggressive populists. A majority of populists, both LW and RW, combine economic progressivism (programs for what they want for themselves) with social conservatism. (Sanders's presumably tend to put more weight on economic resentments than social, Trump's vice versa.)

So social conservatives are the main answer. Resentment and antagonism toward equality of women are very big traits among those. And the Democratic Party no longer recognizes a man's right to all the best paid and higher status jobs, so antagonism toward Democrats' creating just too much equality can be is just as big among many of Sanders' male populists as it is among Trump's. That's also why those who dominated these noisy attacks came to be called Bernie bros, because they tend to be guys.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
32. "Identity politics"
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 09:14 PM
Dec 2019

That which does not directly impact white straight cis males.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
36. The thing is, the most effective way to close the gender wage gap
Fri Dec 20, 2019, 10:08 PM
Dec 2019

time and time again, has been shown to reproductive autonomy. Which makes Sanders's support for anti-choice candidates over the past 3 years a problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

madville

(7,397 posts)
38. I've never personally seen a wage gap myself
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 08:40 AM
Dec 2019

Not to say it doesn’t exist I’ve just always worked at places that paid everyone equally. In the military we had a set pay scale for everyone based on pay grade and time in service, as a federal civilian we had a set pay scale with set steps, most civilian employers I have had had an hourly pay schedule based on position and/or shift and seniority.

Is the gap seen most likely in jobs where pay is negotiated and flexible maybe?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

nini

(16,670 posts)
39. They should be a woman in the tech world.
Sat Dec 21, 2019, 11:11 PM
Dec 2019

Especially one who's been around. Since 1992. It’s disgusting.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,827 posts)
41. "a whole group of people?"
Mon Dec 23, 2019, 04:11 PM
Dec 2019

You mean some people on Twitter?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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