Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap.
I'm trying to figure out why a whole group of people does not believe that women make less than men. I am reading these comments and in shock! Does anyone know where they get their information or why they believe this? It's not from Bernie.
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brewens
(13,400 posts)last job working for a blood center, pay rates were the same. But then at one time, in donor services, the people that actually work the blood drives, four out of five of us were women. Four out of five supervisors were men. That was bullshit, especially if you knew the guys. That's where the difference was there.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
garybeck
(9,932 posts)bernie clearly supports equal pay.
your subject line is incorrect and misleading.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(93,873 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
garybeck
(9,932 posts)Bernie Sanders knows there is a wage gap.
His supporters do as well.
Period.
Twitter is a cesspool. I thought everyone knew that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)In 2016, a number of voters who did not regularly vote Democratic were supporters of Bernie. When he did not win the nomination, they went and voted for the Republican, as they usually did.
The same thing happened in 2008. A number of Hillary fans were women who did not regularly vote Democratic but liked the idea of a woman being President. When Obama won the nomination, they voted as they normally did, Republican.
Not all of the people who say that they are Bernie supporters are Lefty Progressive Democrats. Since I believe that Democrats overwhelmingly believe in equal pay for equal work, I think the majority of people who would claim to be Bernie fans but not support equal pay are either Bernie supporters who are not Democrats or are trolls who do not actually support Bernie at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OldRed2450
(710 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to OldRed2450 (Reply #13)
Name removed Message auto-removed
TexasTowelie
(111,313 posts)The point by his own supporters that Bernie attracts supporters that aren't Democrats. They can't own that statement in certain situations and disavow it in others.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nini
(16,670 posts)Too many bots and disrupters liking to stir the pot online.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,096 posts)Stop the presses
I'm sure each and every candidate has supporters on Twitter who have opinions we disagree with.
Should we all go and find the worst ones to being here and use them to smear the candidate?
Would that be a good idea?
FFS
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)It's not gonna work. As if Bernie is responsible for everything a supporter of his might say... riiiight!! Imagine if the "Bernie Standard" was applied to Biden. It doesn't matter... the fear of Bernie, while understandable, will have no ill effect on his campaign... Bernie's poll numbers just keep growing with every new attack on him, so, AFAIC, keep it up!!
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)Thanks for posting
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OldRed2450
(710 posts)Yes, the people in the comments are not getting their ideas from Bernie but in comments.. why do so many people disagree with Bernie?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Lucky Luciano
(11,242 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatrickforO
(14,516 posts)You are being more than a bit disingenuous by looking at the replies to that tweet and assuming they are Bernie supporters. Read the comments to some of Trump's tweets sometime and you'll see in stark terms what I mean. Literally anybody can reply to a tweet.
As to the wage gap being 'debunked,' that simply isn't true.
All you have to do is look at the latest census data profiles. Specifically you'll reference the Data Profile 03: Economic Characteristics. This profile can be downloaded from data.census.gov for any given geography, from the nation, to states, to counties, metro areas, micropolitan areas, and census designated places - like neighborhoods.
The DP03 has a line that gives the average earnings for a female full time worker and a male full time worker. Depending on the geography the range might go from $0.60 on the dollar to over $0.80 on the dollar, but I've never seen parity.
Now, if you want to talk statistics, this does not necessarily mean that companies are not paying women the same money, though some aren't.
It can also have to do with occupations that individuals tend to self-select into. Occupational families such as teachers and counselors, for instance, tend to be dominated by women, and pay lower wages. Other industries, such as stock brokerages and engineering firms tend to be dominated by men, and pay higher wages.
One academic actually destroyed her career by having the temerity to suggest that since some women 'stop out' of the labor force to give birth and raise families, they will, when they return to the labor force, earn less because they've missed some years of progressive earnings. She was crucified for it, which I have mixed feelings about because we're in reality not in academia.
My take after many years as a practicing career counselor and economist is that we need some policy direction leading to higher wages for teachers, counselors, nurses and other occupations that are truly important, and perhaps cap wages for occupations that don't add as much social value - like CEOs.
So what is it? I suggest it is a combination of all three. There really IS a wage gap, and Bernie stood right there on the video saying that. He cannot be responsible for the trolls that reply to his twitter posts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OldRed2450
(710 posts)I'm just sad about the disinformation these young folks are getting
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatrickforO
(14,516 posts)"Bernie Sanders followers do not believe there is a wage gap."
That was the title of your OP, and it is that assertion I attempted to overturn with my reply.
I mean, look at this group of people on DU. Most of us are well educated, and many work in professional fields. In fact, there are some real heavy hitters on here. You will notice that 30% of us are either Warren or Sanders supporters, and 44% are undecided. This leaves 26% who fall a bit more in the center.
That said, I often get 'face palm' moments when I read some of this stuff. For instance, I read a big diatribe on here a few months ago that said the American people weren't smart enough to understand that if we raise taxes to provide Medicare for All, their expenses would actually go down because they wouldn't have premiums, copays and coinsurance. And, you know, Warren is right.
If we could get rid of the big pharma and health insurance lobbies, who are spending millions to discredit Warren and Sanders, we'd all be better off, because I will tell you as an economist - we could (and should) find a way to provide national healthcare for all Americans. Bernie and Elizabeth are both saying Medicare for all because the Medicare system already is in place. We wouldn't have to reinvent it, just expand it year over year for maybe five or six years until it covered everyone.
There would not be a giant exodus of people from the healthcare field.
We would still have good quality healthcare.
All the doctors who exist now would STILL be doctors and still be in business, but they would be paid by a single source instead of having to spend massive amounts of money on insurance company paperwork, denials and re-submissions.
But that's us - PROFIT trumps people every single time. Every. Single. Time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)No, they didn't
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wysimdnwyg
(2,229 posts)They're Russian troll bots.
Perhaps a change to the title of your thread is appropriate, as the current one does imply that you think many of Sanders's followers believe that particular myth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wysimdnwyg
(2,229 posts)Second, are you really denying the existence of Russian bots? Because the frequency of social media companies announcing that they've shut down a bunch of them seems to defeat your claim.
That said, no, I have no proof that the accounts claiming to not believe the existence of a wage gap are necessarily bots, and I'm sure many of them are real people (although it's doubtful they're actually Sanders supporters), but it definitely makes sense that many of them are bots, as that's just the kind of claim you'd expect.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And swallow them hook line and sinker to the point of making them go viral.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sea Glass
(52 posts)I like Bernie (and Warren as well) but I certainly know there's a wage gap.
I know a few really whacked out Biden supporters (including a global warmer denier, go figure) but I don't imagine all of his people are like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marble falls
(56,359 posts)the occasional whacko supporting a good candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tberry65
(34 posts)pfft!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)if I run we will do better the next time, he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/politics/sanders-sexism-apology.html
Felt.
I helped at least a dozen women request raises so that they would be paid on par with their male peers, Ms. Davis said.
The senators campaign committee acknowledged that there were pay disparities but said salaries were based on experience or the nature of the job and never determined based on any consideration of an individuals gender or of any other personal characteristic.
During the campaign, the committee said, it conducted a review to try to standardize pay across the states and within headquarters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Does that apply to Trump tweets as well?
You believe that everyone who responds to a Bernie tweet is a "young person" and "Bernie follower", as you've characterized them in this thread?
And you honestly believe this?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)His quasi-socialist dissidents (who are usually glad to denounce economic inequality but tend to follow the lead of the others) and his more aggressive populists. A majority of populists, both LW and RW, combine economic progressivism (programs for what they want for themselves) with social conservatism. (Sanders's presumably tend to put more weight on economic resentments than social, Trump's vice versa.)
So social conservatives are the main answer. Resentment and antagonism toward equality of women are very big traits among those. And the Democratic Party no longer recognizes a man's right to all the best paid and higher status jobs, so antagonism toward Democrats' creating just too much equality can be is just as big among many of Sanders' male populists as it is among Trump's. That's also why those who dominated these noisy attacks came to be called Bernie bros, because they tend to be guys.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That which does not directly impact white straight cis males.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Recursion
(56,582 posts)time and time again, has been shown to reproductive autonomy. Which makes Sanders's support for anti-choice candidates over the past 3 years a problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,397 posts)Not to say it doesnt exist Ive just always worked at places that paid everyone equally. In the military we had a set pay scale for everyone based on pay grade and time in service, as a federal civilian we had a set pay scale with set steps, most civilian employers I have had had an hourly pay schedule based on position and/or shift and seniority.
Is the gap seen most likely in jobs where pay is negotiated and flexible maybe?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nini
(16,670 posts)Especially one who's been around. Since 1992. Its disgusting.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,827 posts)You mean some people on Twitter?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided